Where would we be without Devon
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Hats off to the staff for recruiting an absolute star at PG in a can’t miss situation. This is the first 5 star PG recruit after Josh Selby, and the best freshman PG Self has ever had.
Imagine this team without Devon Dotson.
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@approxinfinity not gonna do that! He’s my fav! Like to see him spot up a few more times
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He quickly becoming one of my favorites, Selby was a PG? Thought he was a SG? Tyshawn played the point when Selby was here but he may have been listed as a PG in high school so he could have the ball.
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Love this kid. As advertised the best PG coming out of HS in his class. Some media types and recruiting didn’t want to come around to that fact.
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He appears to be a genuinely nice kid, someone who has a good head between his shoulders.
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I like this thread. He’s been such a steady hand at PG that we forget he’s a freshman. Blur with the ball. Tough finisher and can make his FT’s. His on-ball defense is so good for a freshman
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It takes a team. You could say that about all the players. We got a little answer where we would be without Doke, not good. Where would we be without DLaw? Vick? Garrett? or even Mitch? We are actually experiencing an answer to your question without Silvio right now. What if Silvio plays right now? or had been playing? We’d be a different team.
Let’s just say, we are happy with who we have right now. it can only get better from here.
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@truehawk93 Agree with you to a point. DLaw and Vick are important scorers. And I do think we undervalued Doke and got to see what life looks like without him, and it was more bleak than some of us imagined.
However, there’s something special about a point guard that commands the game like a veteran, with the blow-by speed he has. I’m not trying to detract from others, only to highlight how good he has been. If you were like me, you thought Q would be the 5-star jewel this year. It wasn’t even certain in my mind whether Devon would start at PG from the starting gate, or Moore, or Q.
Devon has risen to meet all challenges and is in the midst of a magical season.
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He is fun to watch. If he could hit the 3 a bit more consistent he could be an all conference guy.
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@BeddieKU23 Can you imagine the hype if he played for Duke or Kentucky?
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Shooting 42% on limited takes. I like the fact he only takes them when he’s open, not forcing the issue. He’s more consistent they anyone not named Vick
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Devon has most certainly been one of our most indispensable players. I was trying to comp him with past Jayhawks. Aaron Miles comes to mind first. Maybe Cedric Hunter? (we’ll have to explain to the youngsters who he is!) He has a somewhat different game as he’s not a big assist guy, but he is our motor guy, that’s for sure.
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nuleafjhawk said:
@BeddieKU23 Can you imagine the hype if he played for Duke or Kentucky?
I can only imagine. I’m glad he didn’t entertain either school. Self hit a home run with this guy.
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Good points. Devon makes this team go though. PG play is the most important position and for a freshman to be playing this well for a demanding coach says a lot. I don’t think the other pieces on this team would look as good without Devon giving us the steady hand at PG.
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@approxinfinity I love him. My new favorite player, and it’s not close. How I thought preseason that Charlie was going to play ahead of him was ridiculous. Devon’s poise resembles a 4 year starter, and he’s as fast as any player we’ve ever had. Maybe faster.
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@BeddieKU23 Oh for sure and the kid seems to get better and better by the game. He had a tough game because the zebras failed to call fouls from his good play. It seems to me the refs should reward a player when they attempt a good play. The call should go in favor of the ball handler. The Manek kid was moving, heels on the line, and not set. Yet, they called a very fast kid for charging?
What happened to the home team having a slight edge at home with the officials? These officials were horrible both ways. They were particularly awful by not calling fouls against OU with Doke. These comments about refs picking on big men is terrible, but true. They did it to M and M Morris all the time. They were marked by the refs. The refs are biased in many cases against players, not teams but definitely players. The NCAA needs to leave players alone and start investigating the performance of officials. There should be a mandatory review of officials and address their performance. It should start with veteran official DeRosa too. That man is awful.
I know its Wikipedia but interesting.
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Ref’s this year have been downright awful. They missed calls on both sides last night.
Dave got a foul last night for being big and going for a rebound.
The Charge call is the worst in sports. I love when Mitch gets them as he’s almost always in position to get them but the one’s against us there have been very few where it was the correct call. As you stated Dotson was given a foul for making a basketball play on a guy that slid underneath him. Horrible call to make, play on, or reward the offensive player.
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kjayhawks said:
He quickly becoming one of my favorites, Selby was a PG? Thought he was a SG? Tyshawn played the point when Selby was here but he may have been listed as a PG in high school so he could have the ball.
Selby was absolutely listed at and recruited as a PG. In practice, he wasn’t really a PG though.
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BigBad said:
He is fun to watch. If he could hit the 3 a bit more consistent he could be an all conference guy.
If we are lucky enough to see him in Lawrence for awhile, this could develop nicely. His shot isn’t broken and he has been passable from three while being very selective so far this season.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Ref’s this year have been downright awful. They missed calls on both sides last night.
Dave got a foul last night for being big and going for a rebound.
The Charge call is the worst in sports. I love when Mitch gets them as he’s almost always in position to get them but the one’s against us there have been very few where it was the correct call. As you stated Dotson was given a foul for making a basketball play on a guy that slid underneath him. Horrible call to make, play on, or reward the offensive player.
Slid under him and had his heels in the restricted circle. Bad call that changed the complexion of the game. Straddling Devon with 3 fouls early in the second half. Glad he was able to stay on the court
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truehawk93 said:
What happened to the home team having a slight edge at home with the officials?
I would be embarrassed if KU got the whistle that ASU had when Kansas was in town.
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Did the circle really make it easier to call it after they missed that? Should be reviewable regardless of the time left on the clock. Definitely a missed call.
A player on Texas Tech last night got clobbered in the face after making a 3, the foul was called but no review of the blow to the face. The defender literally clobbered him in the face with zero intent of getting the ball
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@BeddieKU23 I don’t like much stoppage in action, but some things are easily correctable with a short review. I’m not sure why they don’t have another official just looking at replays the whole game to make snap judgments if needed. Like asking the first base ump if the batters swing went around. Just an assistant, not another ref taking over the whole job.
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He turned a couple of corners last night that were just unreal. Has that Tyreek Hill effect where he makes fast guys look not fast. They think they have the angle and then he just runs right around them. Dotson is a stud.
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Kcmatt7 said:
He turned a couple of corners last night that were just unreal. Has that Tyreek Hill effect where he makes fast guys look not fast. They think they have the angle and then he just runs right around them. Dotson is a stud.
He’s the fastest guard Self has had with the ball. And a special shout out to everyone who argued with me about that (wasn’t here).
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Something like that can be quick if used and enforced right. Say the same amount of time it takes them to look at toes on line for 3 point vs 2 point shot. It’s already a stoppage of play calling the foul in Dotson’s case, no reason they can’t take a quick look to see if someone’s foot(s) still in restricted area. That was a giant no-no from the game last night.
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I can see a future where we can praise Devon with the title of being the best point guard ever to wear a Jayhawk uniform! I see that potential if he stays healthy, keeps improving his game, and he stays out of trouble.
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@drgnslayr Frank Mason says, “easy, partner.”
@Kcmatt7 Not the stud that Mason was.
@BShark Mason was faster.
I am not embarrassed by my Mason love.
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@HighEliteMajor Dotson is faster and quicker than Mason was. Dotson is also lightyears ahead of where Mason was as a freshman. If Dotson stays for all 4 years, doubtful, he’d likely have just as good, if not better overall senior season than Mason. The one thing Mason was better at than Dotson is now is 3 point shooting.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 yes, I agree. I love mason, too. Mason struggled at the basket his frosh year, think Kentucky game.
I think that game motivated him. He got better each year. I hope D Dot, will shoot the 3 like BIFM.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@HighEliteMajor Dotson is faster and quicker than Mason was. Dotson is also lightyears ahead of where Mason was as a freshman. If Dotson stays for all 4 years, doubtful, he’d likely have just as good, if not better overall senior season than Mason. The one thing Mason was better at than Dotson is now is 3 point shooting.
Oh for sure – there is NO doubt Dotson is faster then Frank was – got a lot of Frank in he the way he drives to the basket - -really tough - -the kid is a Stud - -and an absolute blur from end to end. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@HighEliteMajor I had a man crush on Mason as well. In fact, for a while my “signature” on this site was " Zero is my hero ".
BUT - while watching the last couple of games I thought " This kid (Dotson) is going to blow Frank’s stuff out of the water if he sticks around for four years ".
Sorry, Frank. I still love you.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
…The one thing Mason was better at than Dotson is now is 3 point shooting.
Frank also had a 41" vertical (and a 34" STANDING vertical) going into the NBA, and could rebound better than about every big man he played with.
I’m loving Dotson, but it’s going to be hard to knock Mason off the top of my all-time favorite KU point guard list.
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@HighEliteMajor Frank was great, but FR Dotson has been much better than FR Frank.
I don’t think we will get 4 years of Dotson though, so Frank will likely end up with the better KU “career”.
Texas Hawk 10 said:
@HighEliteMajor Dotson is faster and quicker than Mason was. Dotson is also lightyears ahead of where Mason was as a freshman. If Dotson stays for all 4 years, doubtful, he’d likely have just as good, if not better overall senior season than Mason. The one thing Mason was better at than Dotson is now is 3 point shooting.
Or what he said, basically.
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@DanR good points.
There’s a difference between favorite and best though. I will always love Frank. And his senior year was incredible. He was the hero we needed. Devon’s season has not been Frank Mason’s senior season. 20/5/5 + 40% Trey. Stuff of legend.
But Devon is the hero we need this year! Our PGs are like playing Adventures of Zelda. Each one is a different variation of the story of Link. From child to man. This baby Link is the strongest baby-form Link we’ve ever seen. Will he be the most powerful when he has all his heart containers and the master sword Trey gun? Dunno. But the kid form is amazing.
Disclaimer: Naadir who?
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Frank, fast. Tyshawn, faster. Devon, fastest.
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@DanR Good points about Frank’s vertical and rebounding. He was a great rebounder from the guard position.
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“Fast” is one thing. Using “fast” is another thing. Good point is that Devon, straight line with the ball, is faster than Frank was. However, we can see that Frank was better.
Of course, the excellent point that DD is better as a freshman is true. We’ll see how that translates in the future if he’s here. DD is terrific. He could be quite amazing by the end of the season.
One thing I love about DD is his demeanor. As with Dedric. Not a lot of screaming like fools and chest pounding. Frank the same way.
There will never be another Frank Mason.
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Two games into his first conference games and Dotson is going to blow Frank out of the water if he sticks around??? Anything is possible I guess. Better than Frank at this point in his college career? Sure I’ll buy that.
But even if he’s faster, taller, etc. - ceiling and potential, as we know quite well, doesn’t always translate into reality. Let’s revisit this next year (or the year after, or the year after that) and see if Dotson:
- is still at KU
- is rebounding like Frank
- sinks 3s like Frank
- is carrying the team on his back like Frank
- is as deadly at the FT line as Frank
- delivers with the game on the as often as Frank
- defends future pros like Frank
- gives his all every game like Frank
- gets the MVP trophy like Frank
My guess would be he’ll leave before achieving any of those. If he does stay longer, my guess is that he may achieve on or two of those. I would love to be wrong about every one of those and have DD carry us to an NC and be the best player we’ve ever had. But again… potential ain’t reality. And future stellar pro careers ain’t the same as truly meaningful college careers for me as I don’t really follow the pro game.
I’m on the Dotson bandwagon as much as you all, but tossing Frank under the those bandwagon wheels 12 games into DDs first season? Not so much.
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Did some comparison with Frank & Devon here in the Freshman yr - how ever we have to realize that Frank came of the bench a lot his freshman yr so keep in mind - -like in Franks freshmen year he average 16.2 minutes per - - -Devon is like 33 so you have that to consider ok?
Things pretty similar in most categories Devon 11.5 ppg - - - - - - -Frank 5.5 - - - - - - - -Devon 3.3 rpg - - - - - - - -Frank 1.3 - - - - - - - -Devon 52 % fg% - - - - - - - -Frank 41.7 - - - - - - -Devon 80.4 % ft%- - - - - – - - - - - Frank 66.2%- - - - - - - -Devon 42.3 % -3pt% - - - - - - -Frank 32.7% - - -3 pt% - - - - -Devon 2.9 Apg - - - - - Frank 2.1 - - - - - - - -Devon 2.1 Top - - - - - - --Frank 1.1
Again w have to keep in mind - -playing minutes - yet there were a couple of cat’s that stuck out - - - -Devon quite a bit better in shooting - - – - Free Throw Shooting - - -& 3pt shooting - we shall see. — Love them both. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@StLJhawk Dotson will be gone after this year and we will never know. It’s fun to speculate about his career trajectory. But because we only have this year, realistically, I think it’s fair to comp this year to Frank’s freshman year as Frank should be the ghost Dotson chases.
We have not talked about the quality of the team around Dotson vs Frank in his freshman year. I think we have significantly more talent around Dotson, which might have impaired Frank’s freshman self from being multidimensional (see drives that got stuffed b/c no kick). I’d argue that Dotson is better at the kick than freshman Frank, but he’s also got a better compliment of scorers. Also, Frank might have had better body control with contact and drew a ton of fouls at the rim, but Dotson turns the corner better and has more length. He doesnt try to finish through contact, he tries to burn his man. There’s something to be said for both. With Frank it might have been more guaranteed points (though I’d have to look at the stars his freshman year. I seem to remember his junior year as the year that he really stepped up on shielding of the ball and driving into his man thus drawing fouls instead of getting packed). With Dotson, when it isn’t an end game scenario and your team is deep, you may want to score with pace to build on runs and tire the other team out. Again, with Frank we didn’t have the luxury of depth so maybe the grinding foul drawing was better suited for the team and what Self encouraged.
I like the speedy runs this team is capable of. I think of Dotson as the crown jewel of that fast transition game.
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@approxinfinity Inside info on Dotson? The plan originally was more than 1 year at KU. But obviously he is playing very well right now.
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BShark said:
@approxinfinity Inside info on Dotson? The plan originally was more than 1 year at KU. But obviously he is playing very well right now.
I think pretty sure Devon will be back next year. - -He is having a pretty good season - - so far. - -You know how long I’ve been on the Dotson Band Wagon - -but as good as a season he has had - -I still think he returns next season - -he is not there yet , but yet if he does go well then enjoy him while we got him - -I just don’t see him as a OAD. - - Trust me- - I won’t let you down lol. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark @jayballer73 it’s an assumption on my part. The only thing that would hold him back imo is his 3 pt shooting. His mindset, decision making, athleticism and size seem NBA ready.
I’m also banking on a Final Four run
if that doesn’t happen then he’ll be back.If we do have him for another year the comparison to Frank will get super interesting in year 2.
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Dotson isn’t a lottery pick yet. He’ll be back.
You can’t compare a freshman to a senior. Time will tell.
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Question: if you could trade Dotson for Devonte right now would you?
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Well Woodland blew the golf tourney. Not a good weekend for the Jayhawks.
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@approxinfinity Yes — 1st team AA.
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@HighEliteMajor I am very conflicted on my answer to that question. Dotson is an alpha dog by nature. Devonte learned to be one. Devonte was great. Became a 40% 3pt shooter. That might be reason alone to say yes. But Dotson has extreme speed and wants to run this team. When we are in March and through conference play, maybe this kid has enough seasoning on him to lead us through a couple weekends?
I think the answer is yes to Devonte but it surprised me that for me the answer was not easy. Guess I’m all in on the kid.
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@approxinfinity Devonte didn’t learn how to be an alpha dog. When KU had that military guy come in for a couple of days during boot camp Devonte’s freshman year, he Devonte was the best natural leader on the team as a freshman.
The reason we didn’t see the alpha dog from Devonte until his senior year was Mason. Part of being a good leader is knowing when to defer leadership and Devonte deferred to Mason until Mason was gone because Devonte knew KU didn’t need two guys filling the same role while he and Mason were together.
