Emporia State EXI
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approxinfinity said:
Oh ha. I just repeated you @Kcmatt7
I think that it really just speaks to how charasmatic he seemed lol. Three of us made a point to say something…
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@KirkIsMyHinrich @approxinfinity Yeah, Doty did the best he could with the players he had tbh.
@Kcmatt7 Kid was about to commit to Wisconsin, KU got in there just in time.
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I think they just showed a graphic of the Jayhawks box score lines. 10 guys on it, and Doke wasnt one of them. ouch.
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15 of the 22 turnovers were from Dedric, Doke, Dave, and Mitch. Need to be stronger in the post and better passing out of it. Especially Doke.
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Well let’s be honest we - - On to the next game. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY won, pretty easily but get Emporia St credit they kept trying especially in the 2nd half. combination of things they played more relaxed and our defensive intensity fell off for sure.
Observations: – Doke just looked really , really bad - - - I think 7 boards - -not sure how many to’s h had-- -still looks soo mechanical . like he is thinking way to much he is going to do. - -McCormack had a rough opener , - - -Vick looked really passive, - - But the worst of all ? - - - -WAY , WAY , to many turnovers , this part for having that many turnovers is inexcusable. – yet having played to say from great - - still win by 38 so ya - -lots of time for improvement and it was the 1st game - -for sure a lot of things to work on.
Now for some positive: Let’s just get this out here right off the bat - -sure it was Emporia State but still - - – D Lawson IS for real , let’s make no mistake about that. Sure he isn’t going to do this every time out but dam he mad it looks so smooth 31 - & 15 not a bad debut. – - - -Dotson just played a very solid game - - he going to be fine. - - - Garett had a good game on the boards like 8-9 I think – - - - Charlie hit some nice shots made a couple of nice passes - -Grimes was ok - -not terrific but ok.
I think I’m just to spoiled nit picking but I know there was others that probably have some of the same thoughts - it’s ok 1st game - Again probably the biggest letdown for me was WAY to many TO’s lots of work to do. – Every thing considered I don’t think Coach Self gonna really be that happy with tonight’s performance.-- -Not sure if I would be looking forward to tomorrow practice. - -Time for the next game - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@approxinfinity HE got 2 points -came on a dunk – Damm
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Good Night ALL !!!
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BShark said:
https://twitter.com/gifhawk/status/1055645113848864768
ACCURATE
He has to be laughing at everyone else right now.
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@Red.Rooster Night bud!
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I think we may be overdue for a new tshirt. I really enjoy our little community. You forget how great it can be until basketball gets back in swing lol. I’ll work on a design soon.
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Question guys. Do you think Doke deferred to Dedric tonight? - - -not even really that many shot attempts - he just really struggled.- - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Kcmatt7 Sweet!
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jayballer73 said:
Question guys. Do you think Doke deferred to Dedric tonight? - -
Not really. I think he got double teamed a lot and hacked by ESU’s small guys and didn’t respond well to it.
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@jayballer73 Definitely. I don’t think Doke knows how to play with Dedric. And I would say Dedric doesn’t know how to play with Doke… but that’s not as important because we NEED Dedric on the floor.
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Well maybe deferred isn’t the word I’d pick. But he looked lost trying to play with Dedric.
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approxinfinity said:
Well maybe deferred isn’t the right word. But he looked lost trying to play with Dedric.
Yep. He’s only ever played 4 out 1 in under Self.
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approxinfinity said:
@jayballer73 Definitely. I don’t think Doke knows how to play with Dedric. And I would say Dedric doesn’t know how to play with Doke… but that’s not as important because we NEED Dedric on the floor.
Actually we need them both for sure. - Doke gonna need to play - -we can’t have Dedric to carry us all the time like he did tonight , it’s ok Doke will be ok. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Also Vick was pretty off tonight with his shot. Other than that I thought he played alright.
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Ochai is really well spoken. Going to be a fan favorite
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BShark said:
Also Vick was pretty off tonight with his shot. Other than that I thought he played alright.
He will fill his role. Solid D. 3 point threat. Doesn’t take many stupid shots. Type of guy all good teams need.
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Spartan blood will be spilled.
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I’m going to sound really negative here but…
As great as Lawson looked today this was massively inferior talent. He has an old man game via below the basket with a methodical pace. He will do well in certain match ups but I foresee some serious issues when he goes up against length and speed.
Overall team speed is not great. Maybe I’m used to last years team that was so damn fast and they knew where they were going which made them even faster. Tonight we looked slow.
As for all the depth I firmly beleive this team goes as far as Grimes and Dotson take it. Scary to be that dependent on two freshman guards.
Marcus’ shot looks about the same. Vick’s decision making looks about the same. KJ looks really soft. The kind of soft Self hates. I’d be shocked if he sees much time.
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BShark said:
Also Vick was pretty off tonight with his shot. Other than that I thought he played alright. To me - - Vick looked pretty passive - -another one of those dis engaged type of nights again. - Then to that is suppose to be more or less the leaders - -the Senior and the JR - really had bad nights
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Self saying Dotson, Grimes and Garrett have separated themselves from the other guards and that Garrett has made a case to start.
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BigBad said:
I’m going to sound really negative here but…
As great as Lawson looked today this was massively inferior talent. He has an old man game via below the basket with a methodical pace. He will do well in certain match ups but I foresee some serious issues when he goes up against length and speed.
He was amazingly efficient at Memphis. Add in an improved 3 point shot, strength and vertical and I don’t see issues. He is as long as most 7 footers. I don’t know that length will bother him that much. I don’t expect 30 points, but I do expect 15.
Overall team speed is not great. Maybe I’m used to last years team that was so damn fast and they knew where they were going which made them even faster. Tonight we looked slow.
I think we will see some vintage Bill Self pace to make up for this.
As for all the depth I firmly beleive this team goes as far as Grimes and Dotson take it. Scary to be that dependent on two freshman guards.
We will find out a lot against MSU. Can’t say you are wrong to think this.
Marcus’ shot looks about the same.
Agreed
Vick’s decision making looks about the same.
Agreed
KJ looks really soft. The kind of soft Self hates. I’d be shocked if he sees much time.
Disagree. Guy is a Pitt Bull and a rebounder. Not a star. But provides very important versatility.
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BigBad said:
I’m going to sound really negative here but…
As great as Lawson looked today this was massively inferior talent. He has an old man game via below the basket with a methodical pace. He will do well in certain match ups but I foresee some serious issues when he goes up against length and speed.
It did feel that way at the beginning of the game when he was getting stuffed. Then he played off the ball and got two easy buckets. There will be times where other guys will have to step up to keep him from getting double-teamed. I think they will.
Overall team speed is not great. Maybe I’m used to last years team that was so damn fast and they knew where they were going which made them even faster. Tonight we looked slow.
I thought Dotson looked like the fastest player we’ve had that I can remember. You really thought last year’s team could get out in transition better than this one will? I didn’t think we got that much off of transition last year. And this is a bunch of new players with a very high ceiling.
As for all the depth I firmly beleive this team goes as far as Grimes and Dotson take it. Scary to be that dependent on two freshman guards.
Those two looked good for their first game. Both have great body control and solid handles.
Marcus’ shot looks about the same. Vick’s decision making looks about the same.
Agree. Agree.
KJ looks really soft. The kind of soft Self hates. I’d be shocked if he sees much time.
I don’t know. He did look soft. But he also played within the flow. I think he gets minutes.
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@Kcmatt7 I agree 100%. Dedric is really long and had much success at Memphis. I don’t agree with the comment that he will struggle in certain matchups.
Folks have to remember that every year we look sloppy to start and EVERY YEAR we steadily improve and get better. Last year was a great example of this. Its hard to take too much away from one game, especially the very first game.
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@approxinfinity Yep, we did not run much last year. Not sure the source of this comment.
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Dedric Lawson on Bill Self’s postgame feedback: “He didn’t praise me at all. He said it was the ugliest 31 (points) he’s ever seen. And I agree with him.”
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Self says any future decision to redshirt Ochai Agbaji will be a decision made between the coaching staff, player and family. “My personal opinion is he’s too good to play five minutes a game.”
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approxinfinity said:
You really thought last year’s team could get out in transition better than this one will?
I’m hoping this one will play much faster than last years. I think its just really really early. You could see the nerves with some guys.
It will be fun to watch this team evolve.
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I had to cut off the Self interview early. Anything else interesting?
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BigBad said:
approxinfinity said:
You really thought last year’s team could get out in transition better than this one will?
I’m hoping this one will play much faster than last years. I think its just really really early. You could see the nerves with some guys.
It will be fun to watch this team evolve.
Agree. Once Self pushes buttons and gets rotations set this team will be so much better. They need to learn how to play together. Lots of room for growth.
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approxinfinity said:
I had to cut off the Self interview early. Anything else interesting?
Not particularly. He is worried about MSU of course.
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BShark said:
Self saying Dotson, Grimes and Garrett have separated themselves from the other guards and that Garrett has made a case to start.
I want to like this comment more than one time. Post it again.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Self saying Dotson, Grimes and Garrett have separated themselves from the other guards and that Garrett has made a case to start.
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Thanks chief.
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Pretty sloppy as expected, getting the right rotation and guys playing together could take several games maybe even most of the non conference portion of the schedule. Dedric could be a very good player in time, he reminds me of George Niang. Doesn’t have a ton of athleticism but plays smart, Sherron was giving him Jazz about not dunking it, Hoiberg always claimed you couldn’t get Niang to clear a sheet of paper in vertical jump. Dedric maybe in that same boat but he definitely will be a stud. Doke had arguably his worse game in a KU Jersey, panicky in the double team and wasn’t aggressive enough by a lot. I was very unimpressed with guard play, I thought Moore and Garrett easily out performed Dotson and Grimes. Which isn’t all that surprising, they are freshman and we are used to good guard play with Frank, DG the last few seasons. Its actually surprising we scored 93 with how poorly we shot the ball in the first half and a whopping 22 turnovers. I still have the same concerns as before, teams will pack the paint with a zone to prevent Doke and Dedric from scoring easy and make our guards prove they can hit from the outside. We could definitely struggle to score against teams that play solid defense like KSU. Good to have plenty to work on, let’s see what we can do better next week.
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Considering how sloppy it was with all the turnovers 38 points is a solid victory margin even considering Ochai padded at the end. Over the last several seasons KU has won by less than 20 in one of the exhibitions. Plus who could forget 62-50 over Washburn in the 12-13 season.
It really speaks to the talent level of this team, imo. Just think of how good they will be when they learn how to play together and Self plays a tight, coherent rotation.
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@kjayhawks Dedric’s jumper isn’t some broke ass weak shit like Niang!!!
Joking about Niang’s form aside, that’s actually a decent comp. I think Dedric is better but SR Niang was extremely productive.
I felt Dotson was much better than Moore overall. Moore just canned some threes. Dotson did a lot of nice things. No turnovers, got to the line.
Agree with your concerns about the team.
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@BShark You definitely don’t wanna put too much stock in these games, once you build a lead you know you will win.
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@BShark Dotson did have some nice drives, Grimes has a lotta work to due if he’s a OAD. I know it’s the first game but we have seen some pretty good guards in both KU and opponents jerseys not get drafted.
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I thought it was pretty interesting in the second half that Coach Doty and the Hornets almost caught us napping when they attempted a backdoor lob pass. It was open, but the pass hit the rim. Pretty amusing that Emporia State tried to use our favorite play against us. I really like Coach Doty and I’ll try to follow the Hornets a bit this year.
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@kjayhawks It’s all about getting comfortable. I think we’ll see a lot of Grimes, Dotson, Marcus, and Charlie, and they’ll get better and better. No way is Grimes ready for the NBA right now, but he will grow into a huge role with this team, and we’ll see where that takes him by the end of the year. Dotson is a perfect point guard for this team, imo. Controlled, steady, quick as a cat, plays excellent defense. No doubt Garrett will get heavy minutes, and he deserves every one of them. As much as I like Charlie, he is a real liability on defense. Guards just blow by him. Emporia St guards. Doke played poorly, but I think with some coaching on double teams, he will rebound nicely. Dedric is a bad ass, plain and simple.
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@kjayhawks @KUSTEVE It’s kind of funny the different lens that we as KU fans view these players. Now see I’d agree with you guys, based on production he might not add up to being a OAD. Lots of basketball guys were gushing on Grimes last night and talking about him flashing some plays and that is why he will be OAD and drafted highly. Never forget NBA drafts on potential. If they like his game and think he can be a PG at 6’5’’, he gone.
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Well if last night was any indication what’s to come, Lawson will average 20+ a game
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@BeddieKU23 Regarding Dedric’s 31 pts. Dedric said Coach Self called it the ugliest 31 points he’s ever seen scored. Later, in Coach Self’s interview, Self didn’t admit to the comment and attributed it to Dedric himself. But, Coach Self agreed with the comment and said Dedric was often off balance and out of position. My guess is Coach is telling Dedric he should be doing more and playing better.
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stoptheflop said:
@BeddieKU23 Regarding Dedric’s 31 pts. Dedric said Coach Self called it the ugliest 31 points he’s ever seen scored. Later, in Coach Self’s interview, Self didn’t admit to the comment and attributed it to Dedric himself. But, Coach Self agreed with the comment and said Dedric was often off balance and out of position. My guess is Coach is telling Dedric he should be doing more and playing better.
Push your best player to be better, Self’s good at this stuff.
He got 31 in 23 minutes and it looked pretty easy. He’s a heck of an offensive talent
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The team needs confidence. I’m not sure we’ll be firing on all cylinders by the Sparty game, but at some point in the season, this will be a great team. We have all the elements in place.
