Big Month For 2015 Recruiting

justanotherfan

I believe Perry will stay unless something significant has changed in his game over the last few months. Ask yourself this - is Perry as good right now as Marcus Morris? If the answer is no, then you have your answer as to whether or not you believe Perry will leave for the NBA.

I think it’s possible that Cliff will stay two years. Not likely, but possible. Still, I think HCBS will cover himself by really pushing to land Zimmerman and Bragg. I think this also tells us that the Landen Lucas experience will probably be limited to mop up time. Lucas just isn’t athletic enough to garner big minutes at a place like KU. Lucas is a classic fringe guy - he could be a very solid rotation player at a major school, or a starter/star at a midmajor and a star at a low major. Lucas would play 20-25 minutes a game at a school like West Virginia or Texas Tech. He would definitely start at a place like Tulsa or Missouri State and would be a star if he played somewhere like UMKC, probably putting up close to a double double every night. But he’s at KU, where he barely gets any run.

The most interesting guys, though, are Brown and Newman. Brown is a mix of McLemore and Wiggins as an athlete, but probably a bit stronger and a better ball handler. He’s a monster. I will find some time later to do a full scouting report, but trust me, this kid is ridiculous. He would be the next in the line of OAD wings we have had (Henry, McLemore, Wiggins, likely Oubre) and he would fit in nicely. Because we are probably losing Oubre and Selden, we need some elite wing talent. Newman isn’t quite the player that Brown is, but that’s not a knock on him. Newman would be a really strong add, although both he and Brown are likely OADs.

Dorsey, Ingram and Jones are not OADs, but the difference in talent is significant from Brown and Newman to Dorsey, Ingram and Jones. If both Selden and Oubre leave, I think we would need at least one of either Newman or Brown to go with any of the latter trio.

A three man class of Zimmerman, Bragg and Brown would probably be the top class in the country. I say that because I am higher on Zimmerman and Bragg than most. Brown will be one of the best 3 players in the country, but I think when all is said and done Zimmerman could be top 7 and Bragg will be top 10. If that happens, that’s a truly elite group.

KUSTEVE

@justanotherfan Nice post. Brown looks like a cross between Brandon Rush and Mac. Love the aggressive drives to the basket. Bragg is a must have for me. If we get Bragg, everything else is gravy, though having Zimmerman would be special as well. Zimmerman plays with an attitude, which is refreshing to see. the highlights where he is leading the fast break are epic. Those turn around jumpers are a thing of beauty. Yep, yep yep. Let’s sign all 3 of them.

JayHawkFanToo

@HighEliteMajor

This ia class heavy on PFs and bigs in general (I am counting SFs as bigs). Not a single true PG in the bunch. Is this a sign of the times when players are more interested in scoring than quarterbacking the team and would be PGs now want to be known as SGs? BTW, the NBA has switched to the model where PGs are expected to score and not just distribute the ball.

Statmachine

I think we will get some insight on where we stand with some of these guys today during big 12 media day. Surely someone will ask him about the fact that he hasn’t signed anyone in the 2015 class. Today is really the day I have been waiting for because of big 12 media day and team practice starts tomorrow. Scouts and media should be in house at some point in the near future to watch and assess our guys and hopefully we will start to hear about some of our guys that we don’t know much about and probably more about the guys we already know about but in depth.

bskeet

@JayHawkFanToo said:

Is this a sign of the times when players are more interested in scoring than quarterbacking the team and would be PGs now want to be known as SGs?

Curious question… I have no answer or educated opinion. I also wonder if bigs are born but guards are built?

JayHawkFanToo

@Statmachine

I seem to remember, and I could be wrong, than other than the die hard Jayhawk fans/players that always wanted to play for KU (Frankamp, Peters), KU normally signs players after late night, and this year there are several high ranked players attending the event. I would not be surprised to see KU sign a couple of players on the Initial signing date of November 12th.

Technically, Christian Garret is the only senior on the team and unless underclassmen decide to leave, KU really does not have any scholarships to give.

Best (or is it worst?) case scenario: No one leaves and team is intact and experienced and no new players come in, barring transfers.

Worst (or it it best? case scenario: Oubre, Alexander, Selden and Ellis leave which means there are 4 scholarships available.

NBA Draft has: 2 - Oubre, 7 - Alexander, 9 - Selden

Draft Express has: 4- Oubre, 5 - Alexander, 24 - Selden, 55- Ellis.

Chad Ford/ESPN has: 5 - Oubre, 7 - Alexander, 20 Selden, below 20 - Ellis.

NBA Draft Room has: 4- Oubre, 7 - Alexander, 13- Selden, 34 - Ellis.

SB Nation has: 7- Selden, 8 - Oubre, 13 - Alexander, 34 - Ellis.

Jeff Goodman has: 5 - Oubre, 7 - Alexander, 23- Selden

This are very early projection and could be way off. Of course, play during the season as well as team needs can drastically alter who is selected and in which position. So far, it looks like Oubre and Alexander are lottery picks and Selden is borderline. Ellis would likely be a late first to second round pick, but again, how much progress he made over the Summer and how well he performs in the season can move him up to mid first round.

Crimsonorblue22

@JayHawkFanToo oubre ahead of Cliff, Cliff projected foy?

JayHawkFanToo

@Crimsonorblue22

How you play in college and how you will do in the NBA are not always matched. There are many players that are true studs in college but their NBA potential is limited; Morrison and Simien come to mind.

Oubre is a true SG in the NBA where Alexander falls in the category of a “tweener;” not tall enough to be a PF and not enough of a good outside threat to be a SF. He does have heft but then, most PF in the NBA have it and height to boot. Yes, Barkley name will come up, but he is not the rule, he is the exception, and we have not yet seen Alexander play enough…or at all, to see if he can be the next “round mound of rebound.” I will guess that this is why Oubre is ranked higher.

Kip_McSmithers

@JayHawkFanToo : Don’t we still have a scholarship left over??

Mason
CF
DG
BG
WS
KO
Svi
Jam
Ellis
Cliff
Lucas
Mick
Open from AW3 transfer

Statmachine

@Kip_McSmithers We did until Svi came to town. Now that I think about it Tharpe, AW3, Black, Embiid, and Wiggins are all gone. We only signed 4 guys so I suppose we do.

Kip_McSmithers

@Statmachine : 4 Freshmen scholarships in Graham, Svi, Kelly, and Cliff. 5 sophomore scholarship guys in Frank, Conner, Wayne, Greene, and Lucas. Then 3 in Perry, Jamari, and Hunter. 4 + 5 + 3 That’s 12.

Kip_McSmithers

Naads getting the boot opened up the last one if AW3s didn’t.

Crimsonorblue22

@Kip_McSmithers did they give the open one to Christian? Pollards a walk on, right?

Kip_McSmithers

@Crimsonorblue22 : Pollard is a walk-on. Scot Pollard’s nephew joining KU as walk-on

I never heard if they gave it to Christian or not. Maybe they could give it to Evan or Tyler so their parents don’t have to worry about that financial burden.

JayHawkFanToo

@Kip_McSmithers

We will also have Manning, Self and Pollard on the team and I will guess that Pollard got the last Scholarship since I doubt Self or Manning would need one. I am sure that if he got the last scholarship it was with the understanding that it would be only for one year. much like Wesley.

Manning, Self and Ellis are juniors and could possibly graduate in 3 years and transfer but neither Manning nor Self hold scholarships so it would not be a factor; I don’t see either transferring for one year to another school just to get some playing time. Ellis either goes to the NBA or stays one extra year at KU; no way he transfers…

Traylor and Mickelson will be in their fourth year in college, so they might be able to graduate, but since they both have one year left of eligibility after this season, my guess is they stay…graduate school maybe???

Crimsonorblue22

@JayHawkFanToo what about Christian!

Kip_McSmithers

@JayHawkFanToo : I’m hoping Christian got the unused scholarship for this season. He’s put in the years and deserves it. I was just trying to point out that KU/Self didn’t use all 13 of the scholarships since we had a late transfer in AW3 and Naad left the team. So next year we do actually have one scholarship to give unless Cindy makes Bill give it to Tyler.

Crimsonorblue22

@Kip_McSmithers that won’t happen, and shouldn’t IMO!

Crimsonorblue22

We kept it open for the guy from Oregon that didn’t pan out. Don’t think it was ever said if they gave it to Christian.

JayHawkFanToo

@Kip_McSmithers

He could well have gotten the last one and deservedly so. I am not sure who go the last one or if any one got it in the first place. I believe Garret’s family (in California) does well, so I am not sure is money is a big concern (I could be wrong); I understand he is a very good student as well so he might have an academic scholarship.

Crimsonorblue22

@JayHawkFanToo somebody should have it!

wissoxfan83

I watched one game of Cliff Alexanders last year. Cliff is large and active, but what I saw appeared kind of raw. His jumper looked awkward. I don’t know that much, but I wouldn’t be that surprised if Cliff stayed around for another year or two.

BeddieKU23

@wissoxfan83 said:

I watched one game of Cliff Alexanders last year. Cliff is large and active, but what I saw appeared kind of raw. His jumper looked awkward. I don’t know that much, but I wouldn’t be that surprised if Cliff stayed around for another year or two.

Did you see the Mcburger game, jumper was solid. I don’t expect we will let him shoot a lot from distance with his dunking nature. We don’t need him to launch jumper’s, we need him to bang on the block in the high/low and be a 70% free throw shooter (hopefully).

I don’t think Cliff’s ceiling in the draft will get any higher than a successful freshman year. He might be a tweener on height but his his style of play, freakish wingspan will help him play bigger in College and the NBA. I think Self knows Cliff is as likely a 1 and done as any with the way he is recruiting Bigs. I’m hoping we get Diallo and Bragg as the perfect combination of skill and potential.

To me Jaylen Brown is the best prospect in the class not signed, but I always have this funny feeling Kentucky is pulling the strings with him, same with Newman. I’m hopefully very wrong but we will have to wait most likely until the end of the year to find out what’s going to happen with both those.

wissoxfan83

@BeddieKU23 No I didn’t see that game, I saw the public league championship game, against Whitney Young and Jahlil Okafor, an intense overtime affair. Maybe a little different than an all star game where no one plays defense! I think a nice jumper for a big guy is a great asset, we saw that last year with Joel I think. But I do hope we get Cliff’s Mcd’s jumper as well, and seeing how big he already is I hope he stays away from McD’s and gaining the freshman 15, unless it’s a Hudy freshman 15!

justanotherfan

Finally had a chance to watch all of the perimeter players (Brown, Newman, Dorsey, Ingram and Jones). There is definitely a wide array of skills on display here. From the lowest rank to the highest.

Dorsey:

Physical - He’s listed at 6-4, 180. I wonder if he’s not closer to 6-2 as he doesn’t seem to be a bigger guard. He’s athletic enough, but I wouldn’t mark him down as a great athlete.

Positives - He will play PG in college. He’s got the handle, quickness and vision to play the position. Loves to pass the ball and puts it on time, on target. He has a knack for getting into the lane and negotiating around contact and through traffic. His jumper is very solid. Understands how to create space for his shot.

Negatives - I can see a ceiling for him. He’s a very good player, but I don’t think he will be much more than that. That’s okay because I think he’s a productive player for four years at the collegiate level. He should be a good defender, but probably will struggle with bigger wings if he plays there. Small, quick PGs may also trouble him. He won’t be a huge scorer in college.

Overall - if he’s a PG, I’m actually much higher on him. As a SG, I am really not that excited. He probably won’t be the kind of scorer that you want as a 2. He’s definitely not the type of athlete you want there. However, move him to the point and things get much more interesting very quickly. He’s an adept passer and if he can handle running the offense and embracing being a PG, he could be a four year starter.

Jones:

Physical - he’s a long, slender, athletic guy. He has not put on much muscle, although he’s not so slight that a stiff breeze would knock him over. The recruiting services list him at 6-6, 180, which is probably about right. He’s left handed.

Positives - He can jump out of the gym. His athleticism is incredible. Either elite or near elite. He is absolutely a D1 athlete. He explodes off the floor when going to the rim and can finish with violence and authority. He does not fear contact or defenders, as he will just jump over them and dunk on heads at will. He has a good ability to take two hard dribbles and explode to the rim. He has a useful crossover and a nifty eurostep. His jumper is okay. His athleticism should allow him to guard just about anybody on the perimeter, and he should be at worse an above average defender, with the tools to be very good.

Negatives - Right now he’s more athlete than basketball player. His jumper is a bit fringy, and I wonder if he has a lot of confidence in it, as his release isn’t always consistent. On defense he’s a bit too eager to block everything, which will get him into foul trouble against older, craftier players. His ball handling is pretty basic. He would have to play with other ball handlers because he isn’t the type of guy you want handling out in the middle of the floor.

Overall - He’s ranked where he is because he’s a super athlete that may turn into a very good basketball player. If he doesn’t, he still has value as a defense and athleticism/energy guy, but he may not be much of a scorer in college if he doesn’t develop either a handle or a jumper.

Ingram:

Physical - another, long, lean, athletic guy. He’s listed at 6-8, 180 and judging from how skinny he looks, I bet that’s pretty accurate. His build suggests that he might get bullied by bigger players, but on the perimeter, he can probably hold his own.

Positives - He has a better handle and better shooting stroke than Jones. That said, his calling card is also his athleticism. He’s not the athlete that Jones is, but he’s an athlete and his size and length - wingspan alert! - should make him a good defender as well. I’m not sure about his quickness, however. His shot and range are good. He shows confidence in his shot out to 20 feet or more. His handle is solid, but his height makes his dribble a bit high. He is a good passer as well. He can finish with either hand. Blocks shots by extending rather than leaping, which should limit fouls.

Negatives - Very lean and could use some strength. I could see smaller guys giving him problems because of his high dribble and bigger guys muscling him up. His shot is good enough to catch and shoot, but that’s not optimal value for him. I’d like to see him tighten the handle just a big. His release needs to be a bit quicker, as right now he shoots like a stretch 4, but he isn’t big enough to handle the position in college.

Overall - If he can play on the perimeter all the time in college, he’s a matchup nightmare. He can handle the rock, pass, shoot and drive. His length will drive guys crazy on defense. If he gets stronger, his ranking could really move up.

Newman:

Physical - Here’s where you start to see the differences. They say Newman is just 6-3, 175, but physically he looks bigger and stronger than that. On top of that he can flat out bounce. He’s a 6-3 kid that plays every bit of 6-6. Watching his highlights you forget that he’s so small.

Positives - In addition to the crazy athleticism, Newman can flat out shoot. Pullups, catch and shoot, off screens, whatever. He can put the ball in the basket. @JayHawkFanToo asked about the lack of true PGs. Newman is another that could be a PG, but he’s such a good scorer, I’m not sure you want to ask him to shut down that part of his game. Yeah, he can pass and handle and he’s got speed and quickness, but you watch him on offense and it’s no wonder his coaches want him shooting. He’s just too good a scorer. Also, his speed in the open court is amazing.

Negatives - As clean as his jumper is, he has a little leg kick that makes his shot a little hitchy at times. It is still very slick and the results are there, but he probably needs to clean that up. He also takes too many challenged shots, in part because he can get away with it now. Savvier guards will punish that sort of decision making.

Overall - Newman is an NBA PG, but at the college level, he probably would play off the ball because there aren’t many perimeter scorers as gifted as him. What makes him interesting, though is that if he ended up on a team without a PG, I bet he could slide over without much problem.

Brown:

Physical - Lists at 6-7, 220 and he is likely every bit of that. He can be a jet or a tank with his speed and athleticism, either bruising through or just jumping over.

Positives - Where to start. He can shoot, handle, defend. He’s athletic. He’s strong. His jumpshot is clean as a whistle. He finishes with violence and authority. He can break you down off the dribble or catch and shoot. The only reason he’s not the #1 player in the country is because Ben Simmons is unreal (and Simmons is a bit bigger with a similar skillset).

Negatives - The only real negative for him is that he hasn’t seen enough consistent competition on his level. At 6-7 with his size, strength and skills, there aren’t many high school players that can handle him. He can go 75% and still make 95% of HS players look ridiculous. Motor is a concern because he’s so good he doesn’t have to compete with HS players.

Overall - Brown is a mix of Wiggins and McLemore. He has McLemore’s shooting and Wiggins’ athleticism. But he has added to that a ball handling ability that neither of those guys had. Brown is a special player.

HighEliteMajor

@justanotherfan Good info. But I’m a little surprised on the PG talk on Dorsey. I had kind of just seen him as a decent ball handling SG.

Here’s ESPN’s Summary on Dorsey:

Strengths: Dorsey has a lethal combination of his size and skill is a sight to see and his athleticism is impressive. He explodes in the open court (reminiscent of John Wall while in high school) and he can cover a lot of ground in a hurry. Although he is most noted for his scoring prowess (pull-ups and slashing drives), his passing ability is what sets him apart from most of his peers.

Weaknesses: Dorsey is a mature prospect (old for his grade), thus it will be interesting to see how much more he physically develops. Dorsey needs to slow down some in the half court set and play on balance (leaves his feet while passing) which leads to charges and turnovers. Like most players he has a tendency to pound the ball too much, which leads to some turnovers and forced shots. By continuing to develop a triple threat game (squaring up, quick 1st step, jab step, pump fake, etc.) instead of over-handling it, the game should slow down for him.

Bottom Line: Dorsey continues to prove why he should be mentioned amongst the nations U19 elite for his class. Due to his scoring prowess and approach to the game (plays hard), he has a chance to be an elite shooting guard with continued savvy and skill development.

This seems like a great situation for Dorsey. Most likely, we’ll lose Oubre, Selden and a transfer from one of the small guards – let’s say Mason, just as an example. Next season we have Graham and CF - guys that would have won the battle for PT, along with Svi and Greene. That leaves a 5th perimeter spot wide open.

The things I think that could keep Dorsey from committing are 1) the possibility that we could get a Brown or Newman in the late period, and 2) that one of three possible guys that leave actually stays. But this seems like a great situation for him, and I love the idea that he could be a four year player.

JayHawkFanToo

Look like Bragg is down to 4 school and KU is one of them…