BOLD PREDICTIONS
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jaybate 1.0 said:
KU inches
ESPN, Rivals, Scout, Sports Illustrated and every ranking publication list him ad 6’2”
Next.
What did Vick do all last season, while Devonte was resting on the floor? Did KU somehow magically operate on mental telepathy from Devonte, or Self?
He parked himself at the corner waiting for a pass from Newman (who was the primary PG backup or Garret or Svi to hit the open 3 or drive the baseline for a layup or dunk or cut for an alley oop.The one exception was the Washington game where he parked himself at the top of the key to take advantage of the Washington extended defense that left the paint open; he scored 28 points.
Next.
Why do you persist in this antic endeavor of pretending Vick was not doing the domestique 2 guard role same as Devonte did and same as Frank did before taking over the point? Are you really trying to make yourself think he didn’t? Why? It’s such an odd thing to try to make yourself think—such an odd disconnect. Vick has on the job training and grooming of the kind that Frank, a 2 in high school, and Devonte a 1 in high school, received the years before they took over the point. Heck, add Tyshawn. Add Elijah. You appear waaaaaaaaaay out there on this. “Aw, how does it feel, with no direction home, like a rollin’ Stone…” It feels a little strange to me, but I want to be as supportive as I can be. It’s the off season after all.
The reason he did not is because he is NOT a PG, he is not even a combo guard. He is a SG/wing. When Devonte was not directing the team, Newman was.
Next.
I see you still cannot find even one article, analysis or publication that backs up your claim. Until you find something…anything to back up your claim you will have to argue with yourself.
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@jaybate-1.0 I love you, man…but Vick has never played point guard.
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@KUSTEVE Makes it a bold prediction I suppose. Funny how some won’t make any predticitions, but are quick to shoot them down.
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UK’s team melts down after an early season loss to KU destroys their fragile psyche.
KU’s continued dominance of the Big12 gets at least one coach fired and brings about apathy at 3 other schools.
Kansas will hand Iowa State it’s keister so bad it’s fans will stop whining and start singing praises of the Jayhawks. (Realizing it’s better to give it your all and lose to the best than to cry about losing to a team you “should’ve beat”)
Higgins will don a KU t-shirt (that he burns on the court at half time)
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@dylans “Kansas will hand Iowa State it’s keister so bad it’s fans will stop whining and start singing praises of the Jayhawks. (Realizing it’s better to give it your all and lose to the best than to cry about losing to a team you “should’ve beat”)”
Yes, this type of adulation of dominant opponents always happens in sports!
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Let’s hope Vick has used all of his developing months working on his handles. We don’t need him at PG on offense (but he could be our BRush top of key defender in the championship game!).
Imagine if Vick’s handles matched his athleticism! Imagine Vick with an explosive first step! Imagine Vick blowing by everyone!
He really needs to improve his handles because he doesn’t get to take advantage of his athleticism with the ball because the ball can’t keep up with his speed.
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Back at you, he never has played point same as Frank hadn’t. But he did exactly what Tyshawn, Elijah, Frank and Devonte did the year before each took over the point. It’s just a fact.
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Of all of KU’s domestiques-both those like Frank and Tyshawn, without high school PG experience, and with it, like Elijah, and Devonte, and Sherron, Vick was most I’ll-suited to the mental flexibility required of the domestique 2 guard role. It was a super challenge for Vick to learn all the other jobs and help roles, and focus on going to iron every possession. The very aspects of Vick’s personal struggles last season are what could make him such a terrific PG with every game MUA on both ends all the way to the finals.
Most are questioning his handles, as they questioned Tyshawn’s. There would be similar growing pains if Vick were given the keys for sure, but there are going to be even bigger growing pains (or structural deficiencies) with all the other PG candidates; that is what everyone is underestimating.
Vick only has to work on his handles. The rest of his game is Final Four tested. The rest of the candidates have vastly more too learn on both ends than Vick does. Further, I suspect his handles only looked limited, because he was being asked to do so much other than handle than he had ever had to before.
All but Devonte among the domestique 2s have struggled with handles juggling at times the diversity of roles of the domestique 2. Except for 5-9 (non KU inches) Charlie, the rest of the point guard candidates have never started for a single season in D1. Marcus Garrett looked more deficient handling the ball last season than Vick. Grimes and Dotson have never played a second, when Blue Meanies were smashing them at D1 speeds. Who knows about their D1 handles? Really, Grimes and Dotson as freshman should be grateful if Self keeps them out of PG duty unless, it’s cup cake time. Garrett at PG? Are people vacationing in OREGON and spending all their time at the stores with green cross flags? Garrett couldn’t really sustain starting at any non PG slot last season. Board rats are just not remembering that starting at PG in highschool is not a free pass to start at PG in D1! And don’t even get me started on the freshmans’ learning curves on defense at point guard.
All of which brings us to Charlie. He has actually played PG for a season. Thus he merits consideration for starting, or backing up. But he is going to be 5-9 on defense every second he is on the floor? Is Charlie an explosive leaper and an unparalleled tough nut like Frank? Can he shoot like Frank? Can he anticipate on defense like Frank? Is the NBA going to find a slot for Charlie, as it has for Frank? Can Charlie bring 3/4s of what Frank and Devonte brought for 30-40 38 minute games? That’s what KU needs from short PGs even just to make good runs in March. Can Charlie seriously step in and meet or beat Frank, because short PGs at KU come up against future NBA PGs inevitably in March. Is everyone positive Charlie can hold his own against guys like KU’s recent point guards and ones drafted higher from UK, Duke, UNC, etc.?
Really, the more I look at Self’s options at PG, the more I think he has to gamble on developing Vick into 20 mpg at PG MINIMUM, if Self wants more than a conference title. It’s scary, because it would be unconventional and Vick doesn’t pass the eye test.
But Vick is the only PG candidate that is an athletic freak with back court FF experience, very good D, decent protection, and a potential 40% trey, ready this season.
I say swing for the ring and rely on 6 bigs an Grimes at 2/3 to cover up Vick’s learning curve.
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@jaybate-1.0 We’ll deem it a “BOLD PREDICTION”.
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@dylans There ya go.
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Ok, we’ve narrowed our point guard down to 6 different people…now I’m going blow your mind…
WELCOME TO KU BASKETBALL : HOME OF THE POINT FORWARD !!!
MAY I INTRODUCE OUR NEW POINT FORWARD…DEDRIC LAWSON…
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I enjoyed your lengthy explanation.
I think right now (actually a few months ago) Vick should be focusing on his future. What position can he play at the next level?
His athleticism is nice at the D1 level. I don’t think he is anything unique with his athleticism in the NBA. Then size, durability, and skill set really decide if a guy like Vick can play at that level. Then add in aspects like matchups and being fortunate to play for a team where they need his specific potential.
Yes… it would be really something to see Vick mastered in the skills required at PG. PG will always be a position in the NBA where he won’t have a size disadvantage.
The one thing I think all of us can agree on… Vick needs to improve his handles. And that then leads to other areas… like being able to create scoring space… like having a blistering crossover move… developed slash moves… All these areas really squeeze into the “handles” tag.
And then there is the question about his hunger. Vick needs to develop more of a “Type A” persona. Maybe it is there already, but masked under other issues… like self-esteem and just needing to grow up more. I do believe he is a very good person and he’s had to deal with the same issues most young people have to go through at that age; what is his identity?
One thing I know about him is that we haven’t really experienced ANY of his real athleticism! Another thing I know is Bill Self isn’t going to stop any young person from going for their dream! If Vick has his mind set on being the next KU PG and makes basketball his 24/7 religion from here on out, who knows?
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I have always liked the idea of point forward, since Bird showed it could be done from 4.
Magic was at times a point forward, depending on who Riles ran with him on the perimeter in LA.
If Dedrick can run the car, give HIM the keys!!!
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Vick is a long shot cuz he left for a time.
You’re right about whatever happens with Vick coming down to whether he can develop unity of purpose and get comfortable with mates. His basketball future depends on NOW! He might not be up to the challenge, or Self might not trust him.
But bottom line he has less to learn than anyone but Charlie, and he’s 6-2 or so, not 5-9.
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I believe this is where Self is probably under-appreciated as a coach.
He left the door open to Vick. He gave him a second chance. This is what Self is all about… his players!
Self checks his ego at the door and focuses on life for his players. This may be his strongest quality as a coach! He mentors players!
I’m not putting expectations on Vick this year. It’s all up to him. The sky is the limit, but only Vick can decide his outcome.
And I hope Vick knows Jayhawk fans are there for him, too! No one has given up on him!
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drgnslayr said:
I believe this is where Self is probably under-appreciated as a coach.
He left the door open to Vick. He gave him a second chance. This is what Self is all about… his players!
Self checks his ego at the door and focuses on life for his players. This may be his strongest quality as a coach! He mentors players!
I’m not putting expectations on Vick this year. It’s all up to him. The sky is the limit, but only Vick can decide his outcome.
And I hope Vick knows Jayhawk fans are there for him, too! No one has given up on him! ————————
This should be on the mast head of this site.
In the Boothe Hall.
On the wall of the practice locker room.
At the base of his statue next to Forrest one day.
You have come as near the heart of why I am a KU BASKETBALL fan as I can come here.
Self is a hard man.
He has a relentless needle.
He can finesse most six ways from Sunday.
He puts players in the most difficult out-of-position situations imaginable.
He can be too stubborn.
He can refuse to ever play the deserving and hard working, if another player under another scheme can take the team’s and program’s potential to be their best even a micron more.
He can cut any player, crony, or friend loose, if the team, or program would be better off.
But my how unsparingly fair the man is!!!
My how far he will go for players that he believes the team and program needs.
My how he enables them to get better.
My how he helps those with the necessary talents that commit fully to the team grow in every way possible!!!
My how he does not let TPTB bully him, or break him.
My what resilience he has.
My how willing he is to introduce players to the harsh reality that the world of the have nots faces routine unfairness all the way to the top and survives and excels on commitment and hardwork and synergies of team.
My how he walks the talk that he can’t coach want to and basics after year 1 and that players have to take responsibility.
And my how he gives those giving it everything they’ve got second chances.
But no third chances.
If you can’t learn from mistakes, you may as well not come to Kansas.
Self will drive you till you make them, so you CAN learn from them.
But fail to learn from mistakes and you lack the criterion he looks for and insists on.
Self is clearly annoyed with and finally unwilling to support those that will not learn from mistakes. He realizes some insights and skills take more reps than others to acquire, but in the end Self is a mentor teaching players a hard lesson that is deeply true in life: get better, or get gone.
It results in some players—some jerks, but all some really good guys—that he decides he cannot and will not help. It’s tragic to watch, but there is a tragic dimension to life, whether we like it or not. It is only bearable to watch, because Self does appear to give players their shot. It may not be as big of a shot as we wish, or think some players deserve, but it’s a shot, and in this cold cruel world, how lucky one is to get any shot at all.
(Note: Sam Cunliffe was right. They did not see eye to eye and that’s enough. They were men about it and I am sure they will be men about it. Self could have queered his shot in Evansville and apparently didn’t. Life is about getting and making the most of shots that come along. It takes lots of shots.)
But it has been amazing how many Self HAS helped!!! How many guys no other elite program sniffed at that Self gave a shot and created the conditions for a shot and getting better. Frank Mason is the most successful example, but a guy like Conner Teahan was just as remarkable at a lower level of ceiling. He hung around and hung around as a shooter and then miraculously contributed as a scrambling, indispensible sixth man to a team even shallower than Frank’s that went even deeper than Frank’s. Conner Teahan, when no one but Self believed in him, came to a team’s and a coach’s rescue and enabled it to make a run at a ring all the way to the second half against one of the greatest NCAA teams of all time in 2012. Conner and Frank were just two of many of these improbable successes that Self’s mentoring and development enable. There are many more.
It has been amazing how many guys that did and didn’t pass the eye tests that Self has helped become unexpectedly well rounded contributors to fine teams and helped mature into apparently more well-rounded, effective human beings in the years after; and that is for me the difference between just a winner, and a great coach.
Self is a great coach, at a very tough time to be one.
Go, Bill, go!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 I assume Dedric will be used in the high post, and he’ll be able to hit cutters to the basket, throw it in to Doke, or shoot or drive. it’s going to be extremely difficult for teams to defend us. One of my takeaways from that video was watching Dedric carve up the zone. Last year, Vick was stationed in the middle of the lane against zones, and he would shoot that short mid-range jumper. He almost never drove the ball against the zone after receiving that pass because the bigs would collapse on him. Dedric played the same spot against zones, and his great advantage is he can catch that pass, and challenge the bigs at the rim, as well as shoot that short jumper. Being 6’9" has it’s advantages.Teams will be in real trouble if they try to zone us.
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@KUSTEVE on the other hand I keep wondering if a zone with Dok in the middle is the key to stopping (slowing down) Zion.
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@dylans earthquake! Massive hit!
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@dylans I don’t think Doke can guard Zion unless he comes into the paint. Doke has the brawn, but he doesn’t have the foot speed to cover him outside the paint.
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Can Zion stop doke?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Of course not. Nobody in the world can stop him. And if Zion drives into the paint, Doke would knock him on his ass. But if Zion plays outside the paint on offense, he has the foot speed that would make it hard for Doke to cover him on defense, just like Spellman did. Which is why I think Dedric would match up better, with help from Doke in the paint.
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@KUSTEVE I really hope Dok has worked on his weakside help defense this offseason. It would be monumental if he lives up to his defensive potiental.
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Zion will not be playing Center so likely Dedric would be guarding him and then he can have Doke, Silvio, Big Dave or Even Mitch (who is a very good blocker and has bulked up quite a bit over the Summer) meet him at the rim and they all are plenty big and strong to match up with him. The only time KU might play Duke would be at the Tournament and it is doubtful the NCAA would pair KU and Duke again, particularly if KU is the better team…they would not want Duke beotch slapped again.
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Great news about Ded!
I was pretty happy with KU’s success against teams that dared zone us last season with so many good outside shooters and players coached to score in the seams when the trey line was too overguarded.
Cant wait to see Ded IRON-ize zones this season!
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dylans said:
@KUSTEVE I really hope Dok has worked on his weakside help defense this offseason. It would be monumental if he lives up to his defensive potiental.
Copy and paste.
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@jaybate-1.0 The point forward is going to change the way our offense plays. I’m convinced the ball runs through Dedric almost as much as it does whoever plays point guard. He is the team’s best passer, and he has great handles for a 6’9" hybrid pf-sf with a wing span of 7’4". The one knock on him was he lacked strength, but he’s had over a year under the careful leadership of Hudy, and with Doke/Silvio/Mac down low, he most likely won’t be matched up against a center, like he was at Memphis. He is an elite rebounder, with a nose for the ball. He blocked more shots than Doke and out rebounded him in his sophomore year. He also averaged almost as many steals as Devonte in his soph year(1.4-1.3), and almost as many assists(3.7-3.3). Lawson averaged 19.9 ppg and 9.9 rebounds his sophomore year, which led him to being named AAC POY. If he has improved his 3 point shot, then he becomes a poor man’s version of Kevin Durant…not as good a shooter, of course…but better defensively…better handles…better passer…maybe even a better rebounder.
I know that doesn’t answer the point guard question. Perhaps this does:
"I would say he’s probably as complete a guard as we’ve ever had," Self said. "You know, he can shoot, he can pass, he can dribble, he can score at all three levels. He is a really good player right now, but what I think impressed me as much as anything is that he’s bright, and as good as he is, he’s competitive enough that I think he could really be special."
Quentin Grimes is the best guard that Bill has ever signed. Quentin averaged 40% from 3 his last two years in high school. Playing along side Dedric allows our guards to bring up the ball, pass it to Dedric, and run to the open spot. Can you imagine what Devonte could’ve done last year with help like that? That will also help Charlie and Vick from 3. A lot of people are discounting Charlie because of the Italy trip, but the fact remains he shot better better from 3 (35%) in his freshman year than Frank did his freshman year. Maybe Charlie met a girl in Italy…maybe Charlie mailed it in over there… the fact remains he was the star of the off-season scrimmages. Vick is simply dead eye from 3, and as long as he is focused, can be the real wildcard that stirs the drink. And I haven’t even mentioned the synergy that exists between Dedric and his brother. KJ is 6’7" with a 7 FOOT WINGSPAN, with good handles, great rebounding skills, and a pretty good trey baller (.328 his freshman year). KJ has had a year under Hudy, with a year to hone his skills, and will be better than his freshman year, when he was named “Rookie of the year” in the AAC, after averaging 12.3 ppg and 8.1 rpg. Dotson might not shoot the 3, but he can darn sure drive the ball to the rim, and he can definitely play lock down defense. And Garrett is going to just keep getting better and better and better.
Bill pioneered “badball”. He adopted ( out of necessity ) 4 out “trey ball”. Now the genius kicks in, as he runs with as many as 3/4 floor generals at the same time, all playing around Doke/Silvio…or he goes 5 out…YES…5 out with a lineup of Charlie/Dotson, Grimes, Vick, KJ, and Dedric. All can drive the ball…all can shoot from 3. If he wants to play an all defensive 5 out team , he could run with a Grimes/Garrett/Vick/KJ/Dedric. If wants to hammer the ball down their throat, he could pull Dedric out beyond the perimeter, throw the hi-lo to Doke, and get Doke in 1 on 1 isolations all day long. If Doke doesn’t shoot free throws well again( which I highly doubt that Doke won’t be significantly better), then we have Silvio, who is very good at shooting free throws. If the other team is going 4 out, we can match up. If the other team plays big, Daddy can play big. We have never had this type of depth…never. As deep as we were in 2007, and then in 2008, I’m not sure those teams could field two separate lineups that would both be ranked. I think some of the “old rules”, such as you can’t win the tournament w/o an experienced pg are going to be set aside the same way that people used to say that freshmen couldn’t thrive under Self, and that Bill would never go to a 3 point oriented offense. This is yet another chapter that will be deemed as another genius performance from a Hall of Fame coach. Keep an open mind- I think Bill is going to surprise you.
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You are right that if Grimes can play like any other guys that have lead their teams to national titles as freshmen guards, KU is in the chips for sure.
Self could start Vick, or Charlie, or even Dotson at PG, if Grimes were that Magic like player that can take over the game at will any time after having made everyone better before hand.
Do you think Self thinks Quentin Grimes is ready to produce like Magic did his first college season, or like Jordan did his last college season? Well forget Jordan, because he didn’t do it his first varsity season, did he?
I guess that is what you’re suggesting. Grimes is Magic like.
You appear to read Self as saying Grimes is better suited to leading this team’s roster to a ring than Andrew was suited to leading his team to a ring.
Grimes must be pretty GD good NOW!
If this is what you believe Self is really thinking, then I’m in!!!
LAST ONE TO FINAL FOUR TICKETS IS A ROTTEN EGG!!!
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@KUSTEVE A couple of points.
The first is that Dedric Lawson actually isn’t an elite rebounder. His advanced rebounding numbers are pretty similar to Doke and nowhere near T-Rob who was KU’s last truly elite rebounder. I don’t even think Dedric is as good a rebounder as Lucas is.
The second is that Lagerald Vick is hardly a dead eye from 3. His 3 point percentage has been in the 37% range the last two years and he’s always been a very streaky shooter like Elijah Johnson was.
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@jaybate-1.0 So you disagree with Bill said about Grimes? You don’t have to take my word for it - takes Bill’s word. He doesn’t have to produce like Magic Johnson. That’s a straw man argument, imo.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I think you proved my point in the fact you had to go back 6 years to find anyone on our team that had as many boards per game as Lawson. I guess elite is in the eye of the beholder, as TROB averaged 6.4 rpg as a sophomore. Are you trying to compare Trob’s junior campaign with Lawson sophomore campaign? I’ll grant you that 37 to 38% from Vick is not Svi good, but if he has the proverbial senior bump, we could see 40%+, and that qualifies as eagle eye, in my books. Like I said, it’s in the eye of the beholder.
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@KUSTEVE Here’s why Dedric averaged double digit rebounds per game at Memphis his sophomore year, he played 35 minutes per game. For comparison, Doke played about 24 minutes per game last year as a sophomore and T-Rob played 15 minutes per game as a sophomore.
Per 40 minutes as sophomores, T-Rob averaged 17.6 rebounds per 40 minutes. Azubuike averaged 11.9 rebounds per 40 minutes and Dedric Lawson averaged 11.5 rebounds per 40 minutes.
Rebounding percentage as sophomores, T-Rob had a 19.1% offensive rebounding %, 30.7% defensive rebounding %, and a 25.3% total rebounding %.
Doke had a 12.4% offensive rebounding %, 20.7% defensive rebounding % and 16.9% total rebounding %
Dedric had 9.1% offensive rebounding %, 22.8 defensive rebounding %, and a 15.9% total rebounding %.
Those were numbers Dedric put up against largely inferior competition in the AAC so I don’t see those numbers getting better with fewer minutes against better competition.
The one area where Dedric has a slight edge over Doke in rebounding is on the defensive end, but it’s not a huge advantage and this isn’t saying Dedric is a bad player, but he’s not the elite rebounder people here are making him out to be.
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Well then what freshman that has lead a team to a ring would you choose as a fitting precedent. I’m not doubting. Just trying to see how good Grimes has to be as a freshman to make this dog hunt rings.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I don’t think rebounding is going to be a big problem for this team.
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This KU team is very good. A top 5 team easily and everyone seems to think top 2 (along with UK).
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@BShark I’ve never said this was going to be a bad rebounding, just that I think Dedric’s rebounding ability is being overhyped by a big section of the KU fan base. If Dedric was the lone big, I’d be concerned, but with the depth in the frontcourt, I think KU will be just fine in the rebounding department.
The area I see KU having some issues this year is scoring. The back court is so young and inexperienced except for Vick and lacks that guy that you have to guard on the perimeter that I see a lot of teams packing the paint against KU I can see some games where KU may go 6 or 7 minutes without a FG because of the make of the team.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Well then what freshman that has lead a team to a ring would you choose as a fitting precedent. I’m not doubting. Just trying to see how good Grimes has to be as a freshman to make this dog hunt rings.
Carmelo Anthony…
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@jaybate-1.0 I think you’ve made your mind up. Bill has a way of breaking through ceilings on things like that. Everyone said freshmen couldn’t thrive in his system, and then Wigs and JJ both had great years. After Bill made the fools gold comment about 3s, and we were all convinced he would never run a 3 point offense, he constructs one of the best 3 pointing shooting teams in college basketball. So, I understand the conventional thought is you must have an experienced point guard or a Magic Johnson talent frosh to win it all. I might be whistling in the dark- i happen to think this team can win it all, and I laid out my case.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Do you see Doke playing more than 24 minutes, or Dedric playing any less than 35? Doke averaging 24 minutes for the year meant for practically the entire season, we had 36 minutes where we got whipped badly on the boards ( Silvio helped a lot, but he wasn’t in there for very long). It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Doke out rebounded Lawson, but I could see Lawson coming out on top as well. The point is, we have two REALLY good options going for boards. Now, if you don’t want to deem Lawson “elite” as a rebounder after a 9.9 average, that’s your preference. I just know it’s been a long 6 years without having 2 good rebounders on the floor at the same time.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@BShark I’ve never said this was going to be a bad rebounding, just that I think Dedric’s rebounding ability is being overhyped by a big section of the KU fan base. If Dedric was the lone big, I’d be concerned, but with the depth in the frontcourt, I think KU will be just fine in the rebounding department.
The area I see KU having some issues this year is scoring. The back court is so young and inexperienced except for Vick and lacks that guy that you have to guard on the perimeter that I see a lot of teams packing the paint against KU I can see some games where KU may go 6 or 7 minutes without a FG because of the make of the team.
It’s definitely going to take some time to get cohesion on offense. There are some potential line-ups where the shooting would be very bad.
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No, mind wide open. I really do want to know who board rats are thinking Grimes will compare with among freshmen on ring teams of the past. I haven’t seen him yet. No doubt he is good if Bill thinks he is ready to play immediately. But at what role and level of contribution do folks see him at? That’s what I am trying to learn from you and others. Will he start and be a hub, like Rush. Will he be second fiddle like Wiggins became with Embiid? Will he just dominate and run the show like Magic? I still don’t have a feel for what folks are expecting from him.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
No, mind wide open. I really do want to know who board rats are thinking Grimes will compare with among freshmen on ring teams of the past. I haven’t seen him yet. No doubt he is good if Bill thinks he is ready to play immediately. But at what role and level of contribution do folks see him at? That’s what I am trying to learn from you and others. Will he start and be a hub, like Rush. Will he be second fiddle like Wiggins became with Embiid? Will he just dominate and run the show like Magic? I still don’t have a feel for what folks are expecting from him.
Grimes is a absolute Stud. - He is a player that is going to come in and be a starter from day one , he is as for sure the most certain one and done there is There has even been some talk that as the season plays out and this is Not from KU people but others that say by seasons end Quentin Grimes might just be the best player in the Nation Quentin is going to play very much a MAJOR role for KU this year – Coach knows he is ready to go> - Let me ask you who else would play the 2 which that is the position he will be starting that would have the impact Quentin is going to have? - -Not Vick - Vick will be spending the majority of his time at the 3 - -KJ ? - - KJ is good - -plays some 2 I hear but as big as impact as Quentin will have? - - No Way. Quentin I feel is more talented then KJ - again KJ is good but not Quentin good.
Marcus? - -I love Marcus but at this point offensively Marcus isn’t nearly as talented as Quentin - Marcus kind of limited unless he has vastly improved in the off season. - -I love Marcus defensively think he is really good - - on that side of the ball they may be more equal , but offensively not a chance - -Our boy from KC - -I don’t think he is a 2 is he? - -might be -but again I don’t think he is at Quentin’s level. - - Put it like this also - -who else do we have for that position that was ever considered a strong OAD canidate ? As far as who he compares to? – I don’t really know - -I kind of hate trying to compare anyways - -Quentin is Quentin which is very good - Everyone does there own thing - - -he is going to be a lot more of a hub then a 2nd fiddle, Quentin and Dedric are going to be very big parts. - -HE isn’t just going to totally dominate of course he will have moments just like any other Freshman - but a lot more good minutes then bad - -The kid is a stud - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 Here’s a nice breakdown on Grime’s game:
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@KUSTEVE …83rd percentile of FIBA in all jumpers, 88th in catch and shoot, range beyond college 3, compact release, near perfect form, has every offscreen action down pat, high bball IQ, 3.1 to 1 Assist/TO ratio… NICE!
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@jaybate-1.0 I watched every minute of the FIBA tournament. Grimes had the ball in his hands a lot. My first impression was that he is big physically. Big enough to take the ball inside and defend the big guys on switches. Grimes isn’t slender like Garrett. Grimes also made the biggest effort to get his teammates involved. Most players on those tournament teams just go one on one. But, he turned the ball over too; usually trying too hard to get it to a teammate. Grimes’ three point shooting was off, but there’s no reason he can’t be a spot-up shooter. I can’t wait to see these guys, Thanks Coach Self.
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Thanks for the insights. Sounds like quite a player.
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Seems Self faces a tough choice. Grimes might be best at 2 or 3, taking over the ball for stretches, the way MJ used to.
But Self needs a point guard to let QG play that way.
Maybe Self WILL get away with Charlie and Dot at point with Grimes or Vick at wings switching off onto tall PGs.
OR Self can make Grimes a tall point guard, use Vick/Garrett at 2, big Ded at 3, and rotate all his remaining 5 bigs at 4 and 5.
If Grimes can do what you saw, then I say give him the keys and let him drive and kick. Oscar Robertson and Derek Rose seem like Grimes best precedents. Both demolished the NCAA.
I like Rose for a precedent. Rose had CDR AND an bunch of bigs. Ded = CDR. Figure KU’s bigs will be better than Memphistos. Figure KU won’t miss FTs down the stretch or run into a better coach.
Hang banner.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Seems Self faces a tough choice. Grimes might be best at 2 or 3, taking over the ball for stretches, the way MJ used to.
But Self needs a point guard to let QG play that way.
Maybe Self WILL get away with Charlie and Dot at point with Grimes or Vick at wings switching off onto tall PGs.
OR Self can make Grimes a tall point guard, use Vick/Garrett at 2, big Ded at 3, and rotate all his remaining 5 bigs at 4 and 5.
If Grimes can do what you saw, then I say give him the keys and let him drive and kick. Oscar Robertson and Derek Rose seem like Grimes best precedents. Both demolished the NCAA.
I like Rose for a precedent. Rose had CDR AND an bunch of bigs. Ded = CDR. Figure KU’s bigs will be better than Memphistos. Figure KU won’t miss FTs down the stretch or run into a better coach.
Hang banner.
I don’t think we will see Grimes at the point this year , true he can play it - believe he did play it some in High School - just not seeing it at KU. - - I don’t think you might have to worry as much with our point as you might think. = =Devon is a very capable pg and other then being a Freshmen which again he is going to struggle at times such as like possible with that dam West Virginia press and possible some other stretches.
As most here know I for sure love Devon I just like his mentality kid is super quick and loves driving the ball tough kid reminds me some of a young Frank myself same bull doggish approach - I’ll take him any day. - - Now Charlie more likely then not will probably start the season as the starter and that’s ok that’s a luxury for us 2 pretty decent pg’s however I don’t think it will be long before Devon takes that spot. he is just to good not to you remember the saying it’s not who starts a game but it’s who is on the floor at the end? - -umm ya - - Devon.
Gonna be a lot of Dedric & Quentin for us and then throw Doke on top of that. - We are just so deep we can throw so many different combinations at a team. - Our depth is gonna be a huge factor this year. Going to allow the guys out front to be more aggressive cause they know they got help in back if they get beat Got the Bruisers allow the guards to take more risks at stealing the ball over playing the passing lanes and such. Then on our front line they don’t have to worry as much about foul trouble be more aggressive on the boards and such - -Someone get in trouble just throw another one in. - - McCormack - – DeSousa - – Mitch - - - Hell even KJ can slide down for a bit -we can go big - -we can go small - -we can combo MERCY - -look out. - Again I’m not real big in comparisions I just let them be who they are. - Some get a bad rap cause people try and tag them with a comparision and they might not meet some one’s expectations then all we hear is how they were such a bust. - I’m telling you though we are going to enjoy Quentin for his one year here and yes it will be one year just sit back and enjoy. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I also watched all the games and I was surprised when he played PG because he obviously was projected to play SG in college. I will guess that Coach Self saw in practice how good he was and decided to have him run the point; a real luxury to have a capable 6’-5" PG.
He was extremely good against competition that in some games was the equivalent of a JuCo team but other times was very good and he was rightly named the Tournament MVP. No doubt he is the best combo guard of his class.
KU has had several players (in recent years) that were ready to start and contribute very early on, McLemore, Selden Jackson. Wiggins come to mind and others did not start right away but did as the season went on, Embiid, Oubre come to mind and others such as Perry, Mason and Graham that you could see their potential became outstanding players but not necessarily from the get go.
From what I have seen, Grimes might be the player most ready to start and contribute from day one in recent years; Coach Self has pretty much said the same thing. You mentioned that at the U18 his 3 point shot was not as good as expected but he was shooting from FIBA range which is farther out than college; I expect him to be a 40% or better 3 point shooter, he was at that level his junior and senior HS years and with the additional training I am sure he will be up there in college. More concerning is his FT shooting since he has averaged around 64% which is low for someone that will be shooting fa air number of them.
