BOLD PREDICTIONS
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JayHawkFanToo said:
We must have watched different games.
More to the point, why would Coach Self play Vick at the PG when he has 4 player, 5 if you count K. J., that have proven they can play PG? Is not like he need to groom Vick for next season, right?
We watched the same games. Youāre just struggling squaring what you saw with what you want to believe.
Outside of avoiding OAD blow back, why would Self start anyone but Vick, who is the only one with even intermittent experience running the team for 30+ games and a deep run in the Carney giving Devonte 5-10 mpg on floor rests?
If it werenāt for recruiting blowback risk with putting Dotson behind Vick (or anyone else), we prolly wouldnāt even be having this discussion.
Remember how long it has taken UK OAD 1s to get the hang of D1 running Calās high school offense? And youāre not saying the 5-11 Dotson is the equivalent of John Wall, or the other UK OAD 1s, right? Or are you? In any case, there is a little more to Self ball than hop, skip and jump at UK.
Why do you insist on putting this crazy level of expectation and responsibility on Dotson. Heās a good recruit deserving of a chance to develop. Cut him some slack.
For Self to start and play Dotson 30-35 mpg this season, it looks like Self would have to kiss his conference title run goodbye.
Best case for Dotson seems a 20/20 split with Charlie.
But man, why settle for that when you can have a proven D1 guy Self has been grooming for PG for 2-3 years for 30-40 mpg? Except for his funk stretch, Vick was often almost as much of a man of steel as Devonte.
I just donāt see any logic in your thinking here at all. And Iāve tried hard to see what you might be thinking.
Not saying Self wonāt compromise and go the 20/20 with Charlie and Dotson to avoid OAD blowback and play just to win another conference title, while hoping 6 bigs lets him foul and defend his way to 30+ Ws.
Saying I canāt find even a micron fiberās width shred of logic to your position.
No offense though.
Just saying, as you like to just say.
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First, every publication I have seen and the KU website list Dotson as 6ā2ā not 5ā11ā as you wrote.
Second, I have yet to find any publication that indicates Vick ever played or will play PG at KU, he didnāt play that position before and now, with 4 players capable of playing PG, he will not play that position this season either; he will get decent minutes as SG or wing but not nearly as many as he did last season with a serious undermanned team. See @justanotherfan post above, he lists the same 4 players I did as playing PG as do all publication I read. Maybe you can find one that backs your point?
Third, I did not say Dotson will play 30 mpg; in fact, I indicated that Moore will likely start the season at the PG although Dotson might as the season progresses. Dedric and Grimes are the only players that might play 30 mpg, all the rest will have to share playing time.
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KU inches.
Next.
What did Vick do all last season, while Devonte was resting on the floor? Did KU somehow magically operate on mental telepathy from Devonte, or Self?
Next.
Why do you persist in this antic endeavor of pretending Vick was not doing the domestique 2 guard role same as Devonte did and same as Frank did before taking over the point? Are you really trying to make yourself think he didnāt? Why? Itās such an odd thing to try to make yourself thinkāsuch an odd disconnect. Vick has on the job training and grooming of the kind that Frank, a 2 in high school, and Devonte a 1 in high school, received the years before they took over the point. Heck, add Tyshawn. Add Elijah. You appear waaaaaaaaaay out there on this. āAw, how does it feel, with no direction home, like a rollinā Stoneā¦ā It feels a little strange to me, but I want to be as supportive as I can be. Itās the off season after all.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
KU inches
ESPN, Rivals, Scout, Sports Illustrated and every ranking publication list him ad 6ā2ā
Next.
What did Vick do all last season, while Devonte was resting on the floor? Did KU somehow magically operate on mental telepathy from Devonte, or Self?
He parked himself at the corner waiting for a pass from Newman (who was the primary PG backup or Garret or Svi to hit the open 3 or drive the baseline for a layup or dunk or cut for an alley oop.The one exception was the Washington game where he parked himself at the top of the key to take advantage of the Washington extended defense that left the paint open; he scored 28 points.
Next.
Why do you persist in this antic endeavor of pretending Vick was not doing the domestique 2 guard role same as Devonte did and same as Frank did before taking over the point? Are you really trying to make yourself think he didnāt? Why? Itās such an odd thing to try to make yourself thinkāsuch an odd disconnect. Vick has on the job training and grooming of the kind that Frank, a 2 in high school, and Devonte a 1 in high school, received the years before they took over the point. Heck, add Tyshawn. Add Elijah. You appear waaaaaaaaaay out there on this. āAw, how does it feel, with no direction home, like a rollinā Stoneā¦ā It feels a little strange to me, but I want to be as supportive as I can be. Itās the off season after all.
The reason he did not is because he is NOT a PG, he is not even a combo guard. He is a SG/wing. When Devonte was not directing the team, Newman was.
Next.
I see you still cannot find even one article, analysis or publication that backs up your claim. Until you find somethingā¦anything to back up your claim you will have to argue with yourself.
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@jaybate-1.0 I love you, manā¦but Vick has never played point guard.
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@KUSTEVE Makes it a bold prediction I suppose. Funny how some wonāt make any predticitions, but are quick to shoot them down.
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UKās team melts down after an early season loss to KU destroys their fragile psyche.
KUās continued dominance of the Big12 gets at least one coach fired and brings about apathy at 3 other schools.
Kansas will hand Iowa State itās keister so bad itās fans will stop whining and start singing praises of the Jayhawks. (Realizing itās better to give it your all and lose to the best than to cry about losing to a team you āshouldāve beatā)
Higgins will don a KU t-shirt (that he burns on the court at half time)
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@dylans āKansas will hand Iowa State itās keister so bad itās fans will stop whining and start singing praises of the Jayhawks. (Realizing itās better to give it your all and lose to the best than to cry about losing to a team you āshouldāve beatā)ā
Yes, this type of adulation of dominant opponents always happens in sports!
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Letās hope Vick has used all of his developing months working on his handles. We donāt need him at PG on offense (but he could be our BRush top of key defender in the championship game!).
Imagine if Vickās handles matched his athleticism! Imagine Vick with an explosive first step! Imagine Vick blowing by everyone!
He really needs to improve his handles because he doesnāt get to take advantage of his athleticism with the ball because the ball canāt keep up with his speed.
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Back at you, he never has played point same as Frank hadnāt. But he did exactly what Tyshawn, Elijah, Frank and Devonte did the year before each took over the point. Itās just a fact.
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Of all of KUās domestiques-both those like Frank and Tyshawn, without high school PG experience, and with it, like Elijah, and Devonte, and Sherron, Vick was most Iāll-suited to the mental flexibility required of the domestique 2 guard role. It was a super challenge for Vick to learn all the other jobs and help roles, and focus on going to iron every possession. The very aspects of Vickās personal struggles last season are what could make him such a terrific PG with every game MUA on both ends all the way to the finals.
Most are questioning his handles, as they questioned Tyshawnās. There would be similar growing pains if Vick were given the keys for sure, but there are going to be even bigger growing pains (or structural deficiencies) with all the other PG candidates; that is what everyone is underestimating.
Vick only has to work on his handles. The rest of his game is Final Four tested. The rest of the candidates have vastly more too learn on both ends than Vick does. Further, I suspect his handles only looked limited, because he was being asked to do so much other than handle than he had ever had to before.
All but Devonte among the domestique 2s have struggled with handles juggling at times the diversity of roles of the domestique 2. Except for 5-9 (non KU inches) Charlie, the rest of the point guard candidates have never started for a single season in D1. Marcus Garrett looked more deficient handling the ball last season than Vick. Grimes and Dotson have never played a second, when Blue Meanies were smashing them at D1 speeds. Who knows about their D1 handles? Really, Grimes and Dotson as freshman should be grateful if Self keeps them out of PG duty unless, itās cup cake time. Garrett at PG? Are people vacationing in OREGON and spending all their time at the stores with green cross flags? Garrett couldnāt really sustain starting at any non PG slot last season. Board rats are just not remembering that starting at PG in highschool is not a free pass to start at PG in D1! And donāt even get me started on the freshmansā learning curves on defense at point guard.
All of which brings us to Charlie. He has actually played PG for a season. Thus he merits consideration for starting, or backing up. But he is going to be 5-9 on defense every second he is on the floor? Is Charlie an explosive leaper and an unparalleled tough nut like Frank? Can he shoot like Frank? Can he anticipate on defense like Frank? Is the NBA going to find a slot for Charlie, as it has for Frank? Can Charlie bring 3/4s of what Frank and Devonte brought for 30-40 38 minute games? Thatās what KU needs from short PGs even just to make good runs in March. Can Charlie seriously step in and meet or beat Frank, because short PGs at KU come up against future NBA PGs inevitably in March. Is everyone positive Charlie can hold his own against guys like KUās recent point guards and ones drafted higher from UK, Duke, UNC, etc.?
Really, the more I look at Selfās options at PG, the more I think he has to gamble on developing Vick into 20 mpg at PG MINIMUM, if Self wants more than a conference title. Itās scary, because it would be unconventional and Vick doesnāt pass the eye test.
But Vick is the only PG candidate that is an athletic freak with back court FF experience, very good D, decent protection, and a potential 40% trey, ready this season.
I say swing for the ring and rely on 6 bigs an Grimes at 2/3 to cover up Vickās learning curve.
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@jaybate-1.0 Weāll deem it a āBOLD PREDICTIONā.
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@dylans There ya go.
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Ok, weāve narrowed our point guard down to 6 different peopleā¦now Iām going blow your mindā¦
WELCOME TO KU BASKETBALL : HOME OF THE POINT FORWARD !!!
MAY I INTRODUCE OUR NEW POINT FORWARDā¦DEDRIC LAWSONā¦
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I enjoyed your lengthy explanation.
I think right now (actually a few months ago) Vick should be focusing on his future. What position can he play at the next level?
His athleticism is nice at the D1 level. I donāt think he is anything unique with his athleticism in the NBA. Then size, durability, and skill set really decide if a guy like Vick can play at that level. Then add in aspects like matchups and being fortunate to play for a team where they need his specific potential.
Yesā¦ it would be really something to see Vick mastered in the skills required at PG. PG will always be a position in the NBA where he wonāt have a size disadvantage.
The one thing I think all of us can agree onā¦ Vick needs to improve his handles. And that then leads to other areasā¦ like being able to create scoring spaceā¦ like having a blistering crossover moveā¦ developed slash movesā¦ All these areas really squeeze into the āhandlesā tag.
And then there is the question about his hunger. Vick needs to develop more of a āType Aā persona. Maybe it is there already, but masked under other issuesā¦ like self-esteem and just needing to grow up more. I do believe he is a very good person and heās had to deal with the same issues most young people have to go through at that age; what is his identity?
One thing I know about him is that we havenāt really experienced ANY of his real athleticism! Another thing I know is Bill Self isnāt going to stop any young person from going for their dream! If Vick has his mind set on being the next KU PG and makes basketball his 24/7 religion from here on out, who knows?
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I have always liked the idea of point forward, since Bird showed it could be done from 4.
Magic was at times a point forward, depending on who Riles ran with him on the perimeter in LA.
If Dedrick can run the car, give HIM the keys!!!
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Vick is a long shot cuz he left for a time.
Youāre right about whatever happens with Vick coming down to whether he can develop unity of purpose and get comfortable with mates. His basketball future depends on NOW! He might not be up to the challenge, or Self might not trust him.
But bottom line he has less to learn than anyone but Charlie, and heās 6-2 or so, not 5-9.
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I believe this is where Self is probably under-appreciated as a coach.
He left the door open to Vick. He gave him a second chance. This is what Self is all aboutā¦ his players!
Self checks his ego at the door and focuses on life for his players. This may be his strongest quality as a coach! He mentors players!
Iām not putting expectations on Vick this year. Itās all up to him. The sky is the limit, but only Vick can decide his outcome.
And I hope Vick knows Jayhawk fans are there for him, too! No one has given up on him!
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drgnslayr said:
I believe this is where Self is probably under-appreciated as a coach.
He left the door open to Vick. He gave him a second chance. This is what Self is all aboutā¦ his players!
Self checks his ego at the door and focuses on life for his players. This may be his strongest quality as a coach! He mentors players!
Iām not putting expectations on Vick this year. Itās all up to him. The sky is the limit, but only Vick can decide his outcome.
And I hope Vick knows Jayhawk fans are there for him, too! No one has given up on him! āāāāāāāā
This should be on the mast head of this site.
In the Boothe Hall.
On the wall of the practice locker room.
At the base of his statue next to Forrest one day.
You have come as near the heart of why I am a KU BASKETBALL fan as I can come here.
Self is a hard man.
He has a relentless needle.
He can finesse most six ways from Sunday.
He puts players in the most difficult out-of-position situations imaginable.
He can be too stubborn.
He can refuse to ever play the deserving and hard working, if another player under another scheme can take the teamās and programās potential to be their best even a micron more.
He can cut any player, crony, or friend loose, if the team, or program would be better off.
But my how unsparingly fair the man is!!!
My how far he will go for players that he believes the team and program needs.
My how he enables them to get better.
My how he helps those with the necessary talents that commit fully to the team grow in every way possible!!!
My how he does not let TPTB bully him, or break him.
My what resilience he has.
My how willing he is to introduce players to the harsh reality that the world of the have nots faces routine unfairness all the way to the top and survives and excels on commitment and hardwork and synergies of team.
My how he walks the talk that he canāt coach want to and basics after year 1 and that players have to take responsibility.
And my how he gives those giving it everything theyāve got second chances.
But no third chances.
If you canāt learn from mistakes, you may as well not come to Kansas.
Self will drive you till you make them, so you CAN learn from them.
But fail to learn from mistakes and you lack the criterion he looks for and insists on.
Self is clearly annoyed with and finally unwilling to support those that will not learn from mistakes. He realizes some insights and skills take more reps than others to acquire, but in the end Self is a mentor teaching players a hard lesson that is deeply true in life: get better, or get gone.
It results in some playersāsome jerks, but all some really good guysāthat he decides he cannot and will not help. Itās tragic to watch, but there is a tragic dimension to life, whether we like it or not. It is only bearable to watch, because Self does appear to give players their shot. It may not be as big of a shot as we wish, or think some players deserve, but itās a shot, and in this cold cruel world, how lucky one is to get any shot at all.
(Note: Sam Cunliffe was right. They did not see eye to eye and thatās enough. They were men about it and I am sure they will be men about it. Self could have queered his shot in Evansville and apparently didnāt. Life is about getting and making the most of shots that come along. It takes lots of shots.)
But it has been amazing how many Self HAS helped!!! How many guys no other elite program sniffed at that Self gave a shot and created the conditions for a shot and getting better. Frank Mason is the most successful example, but a guy like Conner Teahan was just as remarkable at a lower level of ceiling. He hung around and hung around as a shooter and then miraculously contributed as a scrambling, indispensible sixth man to a team even shallower than Frankās that went even deeper than Frankās. Conner Teahan, when no one but Self believed in him, came to a teamās and a coachās rescue and enabled it to make a run at a ring all the way to the second half against one of the greatest NCAA teams of all time in 2012. Conner and Frank were just two of many of these improbable successes that Selfās mentoring and development enable. There are many more.
It has been amazing how many guys that did and didnāt pass the eye tests that Self has helped become unexpectedly well rounded contributors to fine teams and helped mature into apparently more well-rounded, effective human beings in the years after; and that is for me the difference between just a winner, and a great coach.
Self is a great coach, at a very tough time to be one.
Go, Bill, go!!!
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@jaybate-1.0 I assume Dedric will be used in the high post, and heāll be able to hit cutters to the basket, throw it in to Doke, or shoot or drive. itās going to be extremely difficult for teams to defend us. One of my takeaways from that video was watching Dedric carve up the zone. Last year, Vick was stationed in the middle of the lane against zones, and he would shoot that short mid-range jumper. He almost never drove the ball against the zone after receiving that pass because the bigs would collapse on him. Dedric played the same spot against zones, and his great advantage is he can catch that pass, and challenge the bigs at the rim, as well as shoot that short jumper. Being 6ā9" has itās advantages.Teams will be in real trouble if they try to zone us.
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@KUSTEVE on the other hand I keep wondering if a zone with Dok in the middle is the key to stopping (slowing down) Zion.
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@dylans earthquake! Massive hit!
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@dylans I donāt think Doke can guard Zion unless he comes into the paint. Doke has the brawn, but he doesnāt have the foot speed to cover him outside the paint.
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Can Zion stop doke?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Of course not. Nobody in the world can stop him. And if Zion drives into the paint, Doke would knock him on his ass. But if Zion plays outside the paint on offense, he has the foot speed that would make it hard for Doke to cover him on defense, just like Spellman did. Which is why I think Dedric would match up better, with help from Doke in the paint.
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@KUSTEVE I really hope Dok has worked on his weakside help defense this offseason. It would be monumental if he lives up to his defensive potiental.
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Zion will not be playing Center so likely Dedric would be guarding him and then he can have Doke, Silvio, Big Dave or Even Mitch (who is a very good blocker and has bulked up quite a bit over the Summer) meet him at the rim and they all are plenty big and strong to match up with him. The only time KU might play Duke would be at the Tournament and it is doubtful the NCAA would pair KU and Duke again, particularly if KU is the better teamā¦they would not want Duke beotch slapped again.
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Great news about Ded!
I was pretty happy with KUās success against teams that dared zone us last season with so many good outside shooters and players coached to score in the seams when the trey line was too overguarded.
Cant wait to see Ded IRON-ize zones this season!
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dylans said:
@KUSTEVE I really hope Dok has worked on his weakside help defense this offseason. It would be monumental if he lives up to his defensive potiental.
Copy and paste.
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@jaybate-1.0 The point forward is going to change the way our offense plays. Iām convinced the ball runs through Dedric almost as much as it does whoever plays point guard. He is the teamās best passer, and he has great handles for a 6ā9" hybrid pf-sf with a wing span of 7ā4". The one knock on him was he lacked strength, but heās had over a year under the careful leadership of Hudy, and with Doke/Silvio/Mac down low, he most likely wonāt be matched up against a center, like he was at Memphis. He is an elite rebounder, with a nose for the ball. He blocked more shots than Doke and out rebounded him in his sophomore year. He also averaged almost as many steals as Devonte in his soph year(1.4-1.3), and almost as many assists(3.7-3.3). Lawson averaged 19.9 ppg and 9.9 rebounds his sophomore year, which led him to being named AAC POY. If he has improved his 3 point shot, then he becomes a poor manās version of Kevin Durantā¦not as good a shooter, of courseā¦but better defensivelyā¦better handlesā¦better passerā¦maybe even a better rebounder.
I know that doesnāt answer the point guard question. Perhaps this does:
"I would say heās probably as complete a guard as weāve ever had," Self said. "You know, he can shoot, he can pass, he can dribble, he can score at all three levels. He is a really good player right now, but what I think impressed me as much as anything is that heās bright, and as good as he is, heās competitive enough that I think he could really be special."
Quentin Grimes is the best guard that Bill has ever signed. Quentin averaged 40% from 3 his last two years in high school. Playing along side Dedric allows our guards to bring up the ball, pass it to Dedric, and run to the open spot. Can you imagine what Devonte couldāve done last year with help like that? That will also help Charlie and Vick from 3. A lot of people are discounting Charlie because of the Italy trip, but the fact remains he shot better better from 3 (35%) in his freshman year than Frank did his freshman year. Maybe Charlie met a girl in Italyā¦maybe Charlie mailed it in over thereā¦ the fact remains he was the star of the off-season scrimmages. Vick is simply dead eye from 3, and as long as he is focused, can be the real wildcard that stirs the drink. And I havenāt even mentioned the synergy that exists between Dedric and his brother. KJ is 6ā7" with a 7 FOOT WINGSPAN, with good handles, great rebounding skills, and a pretty good trey baller (.328 his freshman year). KJ has had a year under Hudy, with a year to hone his skills, and will be better than his freshman year, when he was named āRookie of the yearā in the AAC, after averaging 12.3 ppg and 8.1 rpg. Dotson might not shoot the 3, but he can darn sure drive the ball to the rim, and he can definitely play lock down defense. And Garrett is going to just keep getting better and better and better.
Bill pioneered ābadballā. He adopted ( out of necessity ) 4 out ātrey ballā. Now the genius kicks in, as he runs with as many as 3/4 floor generals at the same time, all playing around Doke/Silvioā¦or he goes 5 outā¦YESā¦5 out with a lineup of Charlie/Dotson, Grimes, Vick, KJ, and Dedric. All can drive the ballā¦all can shoot from 3. If he wants to play an all defensive 5 out team , he could run with a Grimes/Garrett/Vick/KJ/Dedric. If wants to hammer the ball down their throat, he could pull Dedric out beyond the perimeter, throw the hi-lo to Doke, and get Doke in 1 on 1 isolations all day long. If Doke doesnāt shoot free throws well again( which I highly doubt that Doke wonāt be significantly better), then we have Silvio, who is very good at shooting free throws. If the other team is going 4 out, we can match up. If the other team plays big, Daddy can play big. We have never had this type of depthā¦never. As deep as we were in 2007, and then in 2008, Iām not sure those teams could field two separate lineups that would both be ranked. I think some of the āold rulesā, such as you canāt win the tournament w/o an experienced pg are going to be set aside the same way that people used to say that freshmen couldnāt thrive under Self, and that Bill would never go to a 3 point oriented offense. This is yet another chapter that will be deemed as another genius performance from a Hall of Fame coach. Keep an open mind- I think Bill is going to surprise you.
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You are right that if Grimes can play like any other guys that have lead their teams to national titles as freshmen guards, KU is in the chips for sure.
Self could start Vick, or Charlie, or even Dotson at PG, if Grimes were that Magic like player that can take over the game at will any time after having made everyone better before hand.
Do you think Self thinks Quentin Grimes is ready to produce like Magic did his first college season, or like Jordan did his last college season? Well forget Jordan, because he didnāt do it his first varsity season, did he?
I guess that is what youāre suggesting. Grimes is Magic like.
You appear to read Self as saying Grimes is better suited to leading this teamās roster to a ring than Andrew was suited to leading his team to a ring.
Grimes must be pretty GD good NOW!
If this is what you believe Self is really thinking, then Iām in!!!
LAST ONE TO FINAL FOUR TICKETS IS A ROTTEN EGG!!!
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@KUSTEVE A couple of points.
The first is that Dedric Lawson actually isnāt an elite rebounder. His advanced rebounding numbers are pretty similar to Doke and nowhere near T-Rob who was KUās last truly elite rebounder. I donāt even think Dedric is as good a rebounder as Lucas is.
The second is that Lagerald Vick is hardly a dead eye from 3. His 3 point percentage has been in the 37% range the last two years and heās always been a very streaky shooter like Elijah Johnson was.
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@jaybate-1.0 So you disagree with Bill said about Grimes? You donāt have to take my word for it - takes Billās word. He doesnāt have to produce like Magic Johnson. Thatās a straw man argument, imo.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I think you proved my point in the fact you had to go back 6 years to find anyone on our team that had as many boards per game as Lawson. I guess elite is in the eye of the beholder, as TROB averaged 6.4 rpg as a sophomore. Are you trying to compare Trobās junior campaign with Lawson sophomore campaign? Iāll grant you that 37 to 38% from Vick is not Svi good, but if he has the proverbial senior bump, we could see 40%+, and that qualifies as eagle eye, in my books. Like I said, itās in the eye of the beholder.
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@KUSTEVE Hereās why Dedric averaged double digit rebounds per game at Memphis his sophomore year, he played 35 minutes per game. For comparison, Doke played about 24 minutes per game last year as a sophomore and T-Rob played 15 minutes per game as a sophomore.
Per 40 minutes as sophomores, T-Rob averaged 17.6 rebounds per 40 minutes. Azubuike averaged 11.9 rebounds per 40 minutes and Dedric Lawson averaged 11.5 rebounds per 40 minutes.
Rebounding percentage as sophomores, T-Rob had a 19.1% offensive rebounding %, 30.7% defensive rebounding %, and a 25.3% total rebounding %.
Doke had a 12.4% offensive rebounding %, 20.7% defensive rebounding % and 16.9% total rebounding %
Dedric had 9.1% offensive rebounding %, 22.8 defensive rebounding %, and a 15.9% total rebounding %.
Those were numbers Dedric put up against largely inferior competition in the AAC so I donāt see those numbers getting better with fewer minutes against better competition.
The one area where Dedric has a slight edge over Doke in rebounding is on the defensive end, but itās not a huge advantage and this isnāt saying Dedric is a bad player, but heās not the elite rebounder people here are making him out to be.
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Well then what freshman that has lead a team to a ring would you choose as a fitting precedent. Iām not doubting. Just trying to see how good Grimes has to be as a freshman to make this dog hunt rings.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I donāt think rebounding is going to be a big problem for this team.
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This KU team is very good. A top 5 team easily and everyone seems to think top 2 (along with UK).
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@BShark Iāve never said this was going to be a bad rebounding, just that I think Dedricās rebounding ability is being overhyped by a big section of the KU fan base. If Dedric was the lone big, Iād be concerned, but with the depth in the frontcourt, I think KU will be just fine in the rebounding department.
The area I see KU having some issues this year is scoring. The back court is so young and inexperienced except for Vick and lacks that guy that you have to guard on the perimeter that I see a lot of teams packing the paint against KU I can see some games where KU may go 6 or 7 minutes without a FG because of the make of the team.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Well then what freshman that has lead a team to a ring would you choose as a fitting precedent. Iām not doubting. Just trying to see how good Grimes has to be as a freshman to make this dog hunt rings.
Carmelo Anthonyā¦
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@jaybate-1.0 I think youāve made your mind up. Bill has a way of breaking through ceilings on things like that. Everyone said freshmen couldnāt thrive in his system, and then Wigs and JJ both had great years. After Bill made the fools gold comment about 3s, and we were all convinced he would never run a 3 point offense, he constructs one of the best 3 pointing shooting teams in college basketball. So, I understand the conventional thought is you must have an experienced point guard or a Magic Johnson talent frosh to win it all. I might be whistling in the dark- i happen to think this team can win it all, and I laid out my case.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Do you see Doke playing more than 24 minutes, or Dedric playing any less than 35? Doke averaging 24 minutes for the year meant for practically the entire season, we had 36 minutes where we got whipped badly on the boards ( Silvio helped a lot, but he wasnāt in there for very long). It wouldnāt surprise me a bit if Doke out rebounded Lawson, but I could see Lawson coming out on top as well. The point is, we have two REALLY good options going for boards. Now, if you donāt want to deem Lawson āeliteā as a rebounder after a 9.9 average, thatās your preference. I just know itās been a long 6 years without having 2 good rebounders on the floor at the same time.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
@BShark Iāve never said this was going to be a bad rebounding, just that I think Dedricās rebounding ability is being overhyped by a big section of the KU fan base. If Dedric was the lone big, Iād be concerned, but with the depth in the frontcourt, I think KU will be just fine in the rebounding department.
The area I see KU having some issues this year is scoring. The back court is so young and inexperienced except for Vick and lacks that guy that you have to guard on the perimeter that I see a lot of teams packing the paint against KU I can see some games where KU may go 6 or 7 minutes without a FG because of the make of the team.
Itās definitely going to take some time to get cohesion on offense. There are some potential line-ups where the shooting would be very bad.
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No, mind wide open. I really do want to know who board rats are thinking Grimes will compare with among freshmen on ring teams of the past. I havenāt seen him yet. No doubt he is good if Bill thinks he is ready to play immediately. But at what role and level of contribution do folks see him at? Thatās what I am trying to learn from you and others. Will he start and be a hub, like Rush. Will he be second fiddle like Wiggins became with Embiid? Will he just dominate and run the show like Magic? I still donāt have a feel for what folks are expecting from him.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
No, mind wide open. I really do want to know who board rats are thinking Grimes will compare with among freshmen on ring teams of the past. I havenāt seen him yet. No doubt he is good if Bill thinks he is ready to play immediately. But at what role and level of contribution do folks see him at? Thatās what I am trying to learn from you and others. Will he start and be a hub, like Rush. Will he be second fiddle like Wiggins became with Embiid? Will he just dominate and run the show like Magic? I still donāt have a feel for what folks are expecting from him.
Grimes is a absolute Stud. - He is a player that is going to come in and be a starter from day one , he is as for sure the most certain one and done there is There has even been some talk that as the season plays out and this is Not from KU people but others that say by seasons end Quentin Grimes might just be the best player in the Nation Quentin is going to play very much a MAJOR role for KU this year ā Coach knows he is ready to go> - Let me ask you who else would play the 2 which that is the position he will be starting that would have the impact Quentin is going to have? - -Not Vick - Vick will be spending the majority of his time at the 3 - -KJ ? - - KJ is good - -plays some 2 I hear but as big as impact as Quentin will have? - - No Way. Quentin I feel is more talented then KJ - again KJ is good but not Quentin good.
Marcus? - -I love Marcus but at this point offensively Marcus isnāt nearly as talented as Quentin - Marcus kind of limited unless he has vastly improved in the off season. - -I love Marcus defensively think he is really good - - on that side of the ball they may be more equal , but offensively not a chance - -Our boy from KC - -I donāt think he is a 2 is he? - -might be -but again I donāt think he is at Quentinās level. - - Put it like this also - -who else do we have for that position that was ever considered a strong OAD canidate ? As far as who he compares to? ā I donāt really know - -I kind of hate trying to compare anyways - -Quentin is Quentin which is very good - Everyone does there own thing - - -he is going to be a lot more of a hub then a 2nd fiddle, Quentin and Dedric are going to be very big parts. - -HE isnāt just going to totally dominate of course he will have moments just like any other Freshman - but a lot more good minutes then bad - -The kid is a stud - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 Hereās a nice breakdown on Grimeās game:
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@KUSTEVE ā¦83rd percentile of FIBA in all jumpers, 88th in catch and shoot, range beyond college 3, compact release, near perfect form, has every offscreen action down pat, high bball IQ, 3.1 to 1 Assist/TO ratioā¦ NICE!
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@jaybate-1.0 I watched every minute of the FIBA tournament. Grimes had the ball in his hands a lot. My first impression was that he is big physically. Big enough to take the ball inside and defend the big guys on switches. Grimes isnāt slender like Garrett. Grimes also made the biggest effort to get his teammates involved. Most players on those tournament teams just go one on one. But, he turned the ball over too; usually trying too hard to get it to a teammate. Grimesā three point shooting was off, but thereās no reason he canāt be a spot-up shooter. I canāt wait to see these guys, Thanks Coach Self.
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Thanks for the insights. Sounds like quite a player.
