Dok
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For sure starters next year at KU
PG - Devon Dotson
SG - Quentin Grimes
PF - Dedric Lawson
Those are the three guarantees. The rest is up in the air. KJ Lawson could start. Charlie Moore could start. Dave McCormack could start. De Sousa could start. There’s a limited chance that Agbaji or Lightfoot could start. Heck, I could probably dream up a scenario or two where Sam Cunliffe starts.
The question for next year’s team is how they can guard, because they should be good offensively.
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Don’t count on De Sousa. From all the reporting he won’t be available—either it will be uncertain if he is clear to play or he will have moved on. I would love for him be available but the odds seem very much against it being so.
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SouthernHawk said:
Don’t count on De Sousa. From all the reporting he won’t be available—either it will be uncertain if he is clear to play or he will have moved on. I would love for him be available but the odds seem very much against it being so.
If he was going to move on wouldn’t he had done so by now?
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He would have hired an agent by now.
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Everything I hear and read says he is coming back. Even though all indications say he is coming back and he did this to learn what he needed to do over the next 12 months… you just never know what will happen. He is one phone call away from ending his D1 days…
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DeSousa’s one semester in college ate up a year of eligibility, but does it qualify him for the draft? I think he has to wait one more year to be draft eligible.
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@dylans DeSousa is 19, but he isn’t “at least one year removed from the graduation of his high school class.”
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@bcjayhawk Thanks, that’s what I thought, but I also think it’s why he hasn’t hired an agent. No need yet. He just as well ride it out for a year.
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The NCAA cleared De Sousa before he played a single game at KU and it has been a while since the FBI indictment came out and the NCAA has had plenty of time to review his situation and determine if there was a violation; the fact that NCAA has not acted bides well for De Sousa. I would think that KU has done its due diligence and if there was an issue that could prevent him from coming back he would have been advised to look at other opportunities overseas or potentially the G League since he is not eligible for the Draft and nothing like this ha happened, as far as we know.
I believe DeSousa will be back and worse case he is suspended for a few games like Diallo was.
As far as Doke, his strengths and weaknesses have been in display at the combine. Solid under the basket with great size and athleticism but no offensive game outside 5 feet from the basket, poor FT form and underdeveloped basketball IQ, lack of positional awareness and below average rebounding for his size; most can be corrected or improved with one additional year of college. Two things work against him, one his current skills do not translate well to the modern/current NBA style of play and two, at the combine he has to heavily rely on other players to get him the ball on offense, something that is not happening since the other players are trying to impress themselves and have little interest in helping someone else.
Best possible outcome for Doke appears to be a two way contract that send him to the G League with a chance to move up to the top level on an as needed basis. Absent that, I believe he comes back to KU.
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Pay back the money, run a few stairs? I’m good.
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@JayHawkFanToo I haven’t seen anything to disuade me that the worst case is still that he is just straight up ruled ineligible and not allowed to play. The sum of money he was allegedly paid is higher than the Diallo’s case. Even if he gets the same ruling, he would have to pay the money back and we don’t even know if he can afford to do so. I know I wouldn’t have been able to pay $20,000+ back as a college student.
I think you are reading too much into the inaction by the NCAA as well. It is being reported that they haven’t done anything yet as they want to let the FBI investigation run its course. I also haven’t seen any news that the FBI has even shared its evidence with the NCAA, so it would be hard for them to investigate until that happens.
I want to be as optimistic as you are but every time I think about the scenario, I can’t see how Silvio doesn’t get a suspension unless the FBI evidence isn’t substansial or it is withheld from the NCAA. Alternatively, this could blow up so much that they can’t afford to suspend everyone caught up in it.
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@JayHawkFanToo Some very good points , not much I can add to that , I too just believe that in Doke’s case I think it might be hard at anytime for him in the NBA. - -I just think the NEW NBA - & style of play just doesn’t fit him. - -Oh ya I’m sure someone will end up taking that chance and I hope they do.But I just think at best he will be another journeyman and very limited playing time - his foot speed and lack of outside game just makes him a bad fit.
As far as Silvio like I say I think you have brought up some pretty good points - -All I can do is hope. - -If someway we get Doke AND Desousa back and eligible - - - -LOOK OUT - - -game on
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The Silvio situation is unique. The accusations come from the FBI. And there are many schools and coaches caught up in this. And we don’t know if there are a lot more things to come.
One thing… where are all the Nike busts? Nike makes up what, 85% of the American D1 market?
The Adidas dirt was uncovered first. It should then draw the feds into the entire situation, which is mostly a Nike market.
I am guessing that the feds have some level of communication with the NCAA, including some level of status concerning ongoing investigations.
I don’t think it wise to compare this to the Diallo situation. The national spotlight is on this and the overwhelming message is that college basketball is dirty.
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You are missing the main element of the issue. The money was given to his guardian, not to him, to have him go to Maryland. He did not want to go to Maryland and came to KU instead. This would appear to eliminate any type of involvement or conspiracy on Silvio’s part. I believe this is the same thing that happened with Cam Newton who did not miss a single game. I understand that loophole has been closed in football but I am not sure it has been in closed in basketball. The entire issue was handled without any KU involvement and this is apparently why KU was mentioned as a “victim” in the indictment and not as perpetrator of the alleged crime.
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Doke has ZERO chance to defend the modern NBA pick and roll/pop iso players. He would also just be an average rim defender in the NBA.
I said all last year(before Silvio joined and Billy left), and I’m sticking to it we didn’t have a single NBA player on our roster.
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Kyle Korver Aug 29, 2008, 10:02 pm Overview:One of the games top spot up shooters. Pretty average in terms of strength, athleticism and wingspan for his position, but has good size for a shooting specialist. Has proven himself to be one of the most efficient spot up shooters in the NBA. Saw his minutes drop after being traded in 2008, but became much more efficient under Jerry Sloan. Possesses one of the purest strokes in the game. Not a factor in many other ways, but gives a better effort defensive and shows more hustle than most other specialists. Had a very nice four year career at Creighton. Improved his numbers in each of his collegiate seasons. Garnered the Missouri Valley Conference Most Valuable Player Award as a junior and senior. Has always been a dominant shooter, but was able to showcase some other skills on the collegiate level. Garnered a spot late in the second round as a shooting specialist and turned out to be a steal. Had a tremendously productive four year stint with the 76ers before being traded in his fifth year to the Jazz. Regarded as one of the games best specialists. Younger brothers Klayton, Kaleb, and Kirk have, are, or will be Division I basketball players. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyle-Korver-3204/
DraftExpresshttp://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyle-Korver-3204/
Svi is your NBA player and could become every bit as good as Korver.
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Svi and Korver have same height without shoes at combine. However Korver has a 6’9.5 wingspan to Svi’s 6’4.75. And Korver struggles MASSIVELY to guard even with that length.
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So wingspan determines if you are good enough for the NBA? Why even have the combine? Just go out and find the biggest wingspan guys on earth. They don’t even have to know what basketball is.
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Good article about Roy Hibbert and other NBA big men that hang around under the basket, and how the league has shifted away from them:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-nba-abandoned-roy-hibbert/
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@Statmachine It’s more important than height. It really defines your true size. Svi is a streaky shooter who is basically playing with a 2 guards size. At the 2 he needs some ability besides occasionally getting hot from outside. He isnt a creator, rebounder or defensive stopper. Very good college player but there is a reason he played 4 years in college.
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Svi is much more similar to JJ Redick than Kyle Korver. Redick measured 6-4 without shoes at the combine in 2006, but had just a 6-3 1/4 wingspan. Redick is very much a system defender (moreso even than Korver) because he lacks the reach to be disruptive in the NBA at that end.
While it won’t keep him from being effective in the NBA, Svi’s wingspan will limit his ability to be an impact defender. He isn’t quick enough to guard 1s and his wingspan will make it tough on him to guard the best wing players. Svi will guard the least threatening perimeter player for much of his NBA career. This also means it is critical that he become not just a 40% shooter in the NBA, but shoot it in the mid 40s from three, along with being able to initiate the offense because he is going to be a guy that will stick in the league based almost entirely on his offense.
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BigBad said: Very good college player but there is a reason he played 4 years in college.
JJ Redick and Kyle Korver both played 4 years in college and are both in the NBA. Both have ben in the rotation for over 10 years. What I am saying is Svi has just as much potential as either one of those 2.
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I love Svi in a KU uniform. Heck I wish he would’ve redshirted his freshman year so we could enjoy him for one more peak season. However, I wouldn’t draft him if I was an NBA gm. He was a defensive liability in college; he will get abused in the NBA.
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Did you not get the memo? Nobody plays defense in the NBA…
But seriously, Svi played great defense on Bagley who will likely be a top 3 draft pick.
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@JayHawkFanToo I don’t care for Bagley much either. But I see a lot more potential in Bagley than Svi.
Dok and Svi are both antiques in the nba. Not much room for a 2 guard, spot up shooter that can’t play D. Or a post that can’t shoot a 15 footer at the very least.
Maybe Bill did find his recruiting niche- nba potential with severe limitations.
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Bagley is no slouch. He was ACC player and Rookie of the year and led the conference in scoring, rebounding and shooting percentage and broke a number of team and conference records and was consensus first team All American and Peter Newell big man of the year and a true 6’- 11” forward…and yet Svi played him well and kept him below his averages and had a great and critical rebound over him towards the end of the game that was the difference maker.
What I am saying is…don’t underestimate Svi’s defensive skills, he is smart and fundamentally solid with a good basketball IQ and above average shooting skill and will do well in the League. He was at the combine the previous year so his measurements are not a surprise and there was a fair amount of interest. He is a much better player now and likely will be drafted.
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@JayHawkFanToo He will have to guard guards in the League not small forwards. So if Big12 teams can take it to KU thru Svi what will a nba team do?
He’s kinda like Tebow. Peaked in college.
I really hope Svi makes me eat my words. But since Brandon Rush couldn’t cut it, and he was better at everything than Svi, I have low expectations.
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@dylans The biggest problem for Rush was repeated knee injuries.
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Rush had 8 years with NBA pay checks. I’d be shocked if Svi and Devonte had that combined.
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@JayHawkFanToo has Bill Self mentioned how he think De Sousa will do next year? To me that’s the most telling sign. At least in the selected quotes in this story, no mention of DeSousa where you would assume he would be mentioned
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approxinfinity said:
@JayHawkFanToo has Bill Self mentioned how he think De Sousa will do next year? To me that’s the most telling sign. At least in the selected quotes in this story, no mention of DeSousa where you would assume he would be mentioned
Yep. I made a thread about this. Had a similar thought about De Sousa. Self also didn’t mention Mitch or Cunliffe so we can assume they are probably Deep Bench/cryo-iced.
Cryo-ice patent pending c/o @jaybate-1-0
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I don’t read much into it. The part of the talk that was reported in the story dealt primarily with the new players joining the team…and Garret. Also, when looking at POY candidates it is not difficult to see where Doke and Dedrick would be the logical candidates. Maybe by mid-season Silvio will be part of that talk but initially he will be playing behind Doke and Dedrick.
I have not read anything about Silvio getting an agent or leaving and at this time his only options other than KU are the G League and overseas. The NCAA will likely wait to see what happens with the FBI investigation since anything it does would be affect that case and, knowing how our system works and based on the apparent misbehavior by FBI agents, that case might take a long time before it sees a court room…if it gets that far.
Based on the above, I would say that Silvio will be playing for KU next season or worst case, he will do like Kanter and stay at KU but not play.
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BShark said:
approxinfinity said:
@JayHawkFanToo has Bill Self mentioned how he think De Sousa will do next year? To me that’s the most telling sign. At least in the selected quotes in this story, no mention of DeSousa where you would assume he would be mentioned
Yep. I made a thread about this. Had a similar thought about De Sousa. Self also didn’t mention Mitch or Cunliffe so we can assume they are probably Deep Bench/cryo-iced.
Cryo-ice patent pending c/o @jaybate-1-0
Just keep in mind that cryo-icing can apparently happen for many different reasons.
Rock Chalk!
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BigBad said:
I said all last year(before Silvio joined and Billy left), and I’m sticking to it we didn’t have a single NBA player on our roster.
You make an pregnant observation.
It bears significant implication.
Why is a coach alleged by some to be an egregious cheater cheating to acquire less talented players than those so far not reputed to be cheating have on their rosters?
Put another way, how are coaches reputedly NOT alleged to be cheating, signing so many more talented players than Self?
Many, if not most coaches caught cheating (or having had plausible deniability about those cheating for them) in the past have been able to sign as much or more talent than those reputedly NOT cheating.
Are we to believe that Bill Self, who is some how brilliant enough to reach the Final Four without a single NBA grade player, is at the same time too stupid to cheat as effectively as other coaches in the past?
I am deeply puzzled by what is going on.
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@JayHawkFanToo The loophole was closed for all NCAA sports as a bylaw to their general amateurism rules: https://static.lrbears.com/custompages/Compliance/BylawArticle12-Amateurism.pdf
If you have any proof that basketball would be exempt for this bylaw, I would ask that you share it. It also doesn’t matter what school orginized the payment. If someone or their family is paid by any party, they lose their amateur status.
It really seems think everyone is in a wait and see mode for what the FBI do next. I wouln’t be surprised if we don’t know if Silvio is playing or not until the first game of the season.
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@et al
I suspect it is hard to interpret what is going on here with DaSousa largely because most involved in the investigation–investigators, prosecutors, defenders, alleged victims, so far unindicted folks, alleged perpetrators, alleged peripherally involved folks, etc.) still want it to be difficult to interpret.
We may just have to live with the confusion awhile longer.
Persons, especially professionals, incentivized to keep things confusing usually find ways to do so.
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Is that an official NCAA document or just a generic set of rules about amateurism? If it is, can you please point out the relevant section or sections?
I remember reading that if the money was not paid to the athlete but to a guardian or agent without the athlete being aware then the case becomes a lot more complicated and the athlete would have good case to sue the NCAA. Remember his guardian was allegedly paid to steer Silvio to Maryland and Silvio wanted to go to KU without any inducement. The case would be against whoever paid the guardian and the guardian himself and Silvio should not be penalized for something it was done without his knowledge and against his specific wishes.
Much like patents, these type of regulations are not worth the paper they are written until a court affirms them or strikes them down. TTBOMK, this has not been tested in court. This all I have.
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Most players got paid, it is not just elite 5* oads.
