2018-19 Line-ups and Rotations
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FWIW, looks like the FBI investigation might have been indeed the real reason why Langford did not select KU. This type of story is all over the internet now and I am sure opposing coaches competing with KU for players will use it against KU. The damage has just begun.
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@JayHawkFanToo Your quote from Ray Donovan as spot on. I’ve said this before, I firmly believe that Self is a target. Prosecutors love slaying targets that appear pristine. It’s almost as if we were provoked into the “victim” discussion. I can see it now, Self indicted claiming he knew of payments made from Adidas to others, with that knowledge he did not protect KU from the fraud, he benefitted from not preventing the fraud, he was thus a co-conspirator, etc. James Gatto is not a “big fish.” I wonder, yes I do, how much info that the prosecutors are attempting to extract from those that have been indicted.
Does anyone think this grandstanding prosecution is meant to stop with a pud like Gatto?
Some questions of Mr. Gatto in front of the Grand Jury - “Please, Mr. Gatto, tell me about your contacts with Kurtis Townsend”: “Had you discussed with Townsend the payment to DeSousa”; “Did Townsend mention his knowledge of the UA payment”; “How much contact did you have with Larry Brown”; “Did Brown act as an intermediary between you and KU or you and DeSousa?”; “Towsend never said he doesn’t tell Self about these matters, correct?”; “Was the fact that payments were made by Adidas to athletes something that head coaches were aware of?”; “Was there a don’t ask, don’t tell type of policy on these issues?”; “Who is the man in charge at KU?”; “If Self said “no, don’t do that”, you would have complied, correct?”; “So Self could have ultimately stopped this, correct?”
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Let’s ponder another angle for a moment.
The top players are going pro after one year in college. There’s no question they are going to get paid. I think we all agree on that.
Silvio De Sousa is not an automatic pro player. He may play in the NBA one day, but its hardly a sure thing. I think we can all agree on that.
So why were schools paying for a player like De Sousa? Well, because whether he ever makes the pros or not, chances that he is a good college player are almost assured. I think we can all agree on that.
So who are the players that are most susceptible to being paid? The guys that are sure millionaires in a year may get paid, but they are getting paid either way. But the next tier down, the for sure good collegiate players/maybe one day pros are the guys that can round out rosters and perhaps help get a team over the hump, to the title. The maybe one day pros don’t have the guaranteed pay day coming like the top guys do. A quick $50K or $100K might be tempting because they aren’t going to be a lottery pick in 12 months. It’s arguable that their value will never be higher than as a collegiate athlete.
The danger for the NCAA is not the top of the pyramid. It’s the middle.
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I seriously doubt our roster is complete.
I will be shocked if we don’t add anyone else.
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The FBI and DOJ MO has always been to start with the little guy, squeeze him and move up a level at a time until they reach the real target. Outside of the schools that deal with Adidas, Gatto is relatively a nobody and I don’t believe for a minute he is the real target. Hard to believe that Adidas was doing this in isolation and the other shoecos not doing the same thing. If Adidas is the only one targeted, the investigation would loose credibility; there is definitely a major agenda afoot that we don’t quite know yet.
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@justanotherfan said:
So why were schools paying for a player like De Sousa? Well, because whether he ever makes the pros or not, chances that he is a good college player are almost assured. I think we can all agree on that.
I don’t believe school were or are paying players, shoe companies are.
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Looks like I’m not alone on Moore, I was starting to wonder. Thanks a couple guys on the phog. Anyway I bring this up because this guy mentioned the Italy stats and they are pretty bad, against that rancid competition. So I went to look at his total combined stats…and remember KU beat one of these teams 118-74 w/o Doke.
12-29, 5-13 from 3, 10 rebounds (not that much is expected here), 15 ast, 7 turnovers* and 7 steals (not sure how telling this is since KU had multiple games around 20 steals…).
*He had 2 games of 6 ast 1 turnover and two rancid games.
I think Dotson needs to start or KU is in trouble.
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drgnslayr said:
I seriously doubt our roster is complete.
I will be shocked if we don’t add anyone else.
Completely agree.
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The Italy numbers can be misleading. If you check, most of the players had very good and very poor games as a result of playing a new system with very little practice. Moore has been learning the system for one entire season and I am sure that he has gotten much better as he became more familiar as some of the reports appear to indicate. It would not surprise me to see Moore start at the beginning of the season and have Dotson take over once he is more comfortable with the new system. At the start of the season Moore will have a higher floor but no doubt Dotson has the much higher ceiling.
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@JayHawkFanToo What reports? Everyone I know with a good track record is not positive on Moore.
He is tiny and will be abused on defense. I’m thinking Iowa State hunting on Svi level D assuming opposing coaches figure it out. Add in the fact that he is a below average offensive player overall to boot. Sometimes KU players aren’t actually good. Moore reminds me of Tharpe.
I think it’s worth any potential growing pains with Dotson to start him right away. He has a lot more potential.
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I figured I’d do a breakdown of all the players that are for sure on the team next year. Doke and Silvio would be in the first group.
Players I am high on next year and long term
Dedric
KJ
Dotson
Grimes
Garrett
I need to see more/see them play at the D1 level
McCormack
Agbaji
Good roleplayer but hopefully not starting
Mitch
Moore
Ideally they never play
Cunliffe
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If Dok or Silvio don’t come back my expectations go way down.
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It was posted in KU forums including this one that Moore was playing great and was practically “unguardable” in practice. I don’t recall who posted it by maybe that poster can chime in?
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dylans said:
If Dok or Silvio don’t come back my expectations go way down.
Defense and rebounding could be better w/o Doke.
JayHawkFanToo said:
It was posted in KU forums including this one that Moore was playing great and was practically “unguardable” in practice. I don’t recall who posted it by maybe that poster can chime in?
I was hoping they would expand on that after the initial comment but it never happened. Because that’s the first I’ve heard of anything of the sort.
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As long as Dotson still has both of his feet working by fall he will start IMO. He wasn’t recruited for the bench, either was Grimes. This is the new age
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BShark said:
@JayHawkFanToo What reports? Everyone I know with a good track record is not positive on Moore.
He is tiny and will be abused on defense. I’m thinking Iowa State hunting on Svi level D assuming opposing coaches figure it out. Add in the fact that he is a below average offensive player overall to boot. Sometimes KU players aren’t actually good. Moore reminds me of Tharpe.
I think it’s worth any potential growing pains with Dotson to start him right away. He has a lot more potential.
Well said and I agree. Dotson should start from Day-1. It’s the only way the team finds its potential through the season
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Fair statement. ShoeCo’s are clearly paying. Schools may be paying.
But the whole idea is to get continued exposure for the “brand”. Having a school advance an additional round is another 2 hours of “free” advertising for the brand, whether that’s the school, the ShoeCo or other sponsors.
Either way, if a guy might help move the needle in March, he’s worth something.
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@justanotherfan Schools don’t pay for basketball players because most basketball programs already operate in the red.
Schools are going to be connected to football players through boosters.
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I assume they mean a person working for an university directs payments from boosters. Not that the money comes from the school budget.
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Well, this is all just parsing details. The schools and shoe companies are partners by contract, right? Adidas pays KU to wear its gear. Why would Adidas pay a kid to go to KU? It helps KU. Not shocking. It is inexorably tied to the shoe deal and the partnership. DeSousa plays for KU. Adidas benefits. KU benefits. Under the current indictment theory – the “benefit” from the payment ensnares the universities. I don’t see how that’s avoided.
It’s what makes the characterization in the indictment of the school being the victim a bit laughable. Of course, it’s the monolithic “school” as the victim, as referenced in the indictment. The various actors from the king (Self) to the peasant can be separated from the victim – just wonder where that line is? By the way, the chancellor is below the king.
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Edited … probably wrong thread now that I look at it. I’ll repost another spot.
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Let’s keep remembering who we are dealing with here… the “Riverboat Gambler!”
Bill still has an ace or two stuck in his boot.
Something is going to happen somewhere, and we have a quality team next year, just could use a few gaps plugged.
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BShark said:
@JayHawkFanToo What reports? Everyone I know with a good track record is not positive on Moore.
He is tiny and will be abused on defense. I’m thinking Iowa State hunting on Svi level D assuming opposing coaches figure it out. Add in the fact that he is a below average offensive player overall to boot. Sometimes KU players aren’t actually good. Moore reminds me of Tharpe.
I think it’s worth any potential growing pains with Dotson to start him right away. He has a lot more potential.
Following up on my own post, a poster on the phog in contact with a former player (I’m pretty sure it’s Elijah) had this to say:
“Per ex-player that plays with the team, Moore is good, tough, well liked and can stroke it from deep (although says it’s a funky shot). Also said Moore is from easily the shittiest neighborhood of anyone on the team and has seen some fucked things. Looks like a Choir boy but not the case.”
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JayHawkFanToo said:
It was posted in KU forums including this one that Moore was playing great and was practically “unguardable” in practice. I don’t recall who posted it by maybe that poster can chime in?
That was me that said that about Moore. I heard it from someone that gets to watch practice quite often and is close to the program…
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Hey there Jayhawks fans. Long off season ahead of us and Im wishing we had a chance to see our boys play this summer somewhere.
Anyhow, thought Id chime in. Everyone seems to think its a foregone conclusion that Silvio is gone. Im not convinced until I hear otherwise. Either way, I think we are fine without him. Doke IS coming back and we have McCormack and MitchI was worried about not getting Langford but we will be fine there too. Garrett with a year under his belt and a whole summer to work on his shot and his strength is more desirable to me.
We are going to be Deeeeeeep next season. forgettaboutit.
I just hope that Coach Self uses that depth and doesn’t trim the bench to 2 or 3 deep when we can easily go 5 deep
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Lulufulu said:
I just hope that Coach Self uses that depth and doesn’t trim the bench to 2 or 3 deep when we can easily go 5 deep
I’d bet on a 3 player regular bench rotation.
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@BShark Any possibility we can give one of our walk ons a Schollie?
Didn’t we just get a walkon commit from someone like yesterday?
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Lulufulu said:
@BShark Any possibility we can give one of our walk ons a Schollie?
Didn’t we just get a walkon commit from someone like yesterday?
Yep, I made a thread for him.
I bet the last scholarship gets used.
Also you hearing anything on Doke or just hopeful?
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@BShark Im just hopeful. I mean, hes not ready yet. He needs another year at KU. Hes not even listed as a second round pick RN is he?
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Woodrow said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
It was posted in KU forums including this one that Moore was playing great and was practically “unguardable” in practice. I don’t recall who posted it by maybe that poster can chime in?
That was me that said that about Moore. I heard it from someone that gets to watch practice quite often and is close to the program…
Thank you. I hope he is indeed kick ass good.
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They’ll win the Big12 and get to around the sweet 16 is my prediction, my very early prediction.
I also predict someone on the roster will accept a free ice cream cone from shoe dude and the NCAA will investigate for 2 months despite the fact that the kid at Duke and Kentucky got 12 free ice cream cones.
I also predict that there will be more handwringing conversations about “this whole NCAA mess”. And nothing will happen.
Expect to see a MCDA game where the players just wear Duke or Kentucky uni’s according to the school they’re going to.
I can foresee 1 announcer per day gushing about K and how great a recruiter he is.
I can foresee 1 announcer per day gushing about Cal and how great a recruiter he is.
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@BShark just me I’ve just though Devon would always start - -never felt Moore would start - - maybe I’m the crazy one
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@BShark Let’s see - -is this Moore comparable in size to the Nick Moore? Right from SMU that played with us when we was representing the USA? - they are both about the same size weren’t they?
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jayballer73 said:
@BShark just me I’ve just though Devon would always start - -never felt Moore would start - - maybe I’m the crazy one
I’m all aboard #TeamDotson
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@jayballer73 He is more a comparable size to Frank. I believe Nic Moore was on the wrong side of 5-9
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I’m not as connected to the program as many of you, and I come on this board for the great conversations and insight but this threat seemed a bit harsh in regard to Moore, so I Googled and found this article which presents him in a pretty good light: http://www.kansan.com/sports/charlie-moore-uses-year-of-ineligibility-to-improve-learn-from/article_e099ac44-dac6-11e7-a294-43e1142997b3.html I’m going to keep my fingers crossed and root for the kid!
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@bcjayhawk great write!
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I posted this before… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Mr._Basketball
You don’t get to be Illinois Mr Basketball by sucking.
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Dok will be back and is using his invite to the combine to gather info as to what he needs to work on b4 next year. If Self thought Silvio would be ruled ineligible then he would have declared for the draft. Both should be back. Moore is a stud and I have posted my thought on that b4.
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Silvio is 19 and he graduated in 2017. He would be eligible for the draft.
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Statmachine said:
Dok will be back and is using his invite to the combine to gather info as to what he needs to work on b4 next year. If Self thought Silvio would be ruled ineligible then he would have declared for the draft. Both should be back. Moore is a stud and I have posted my thought on that b4.
You thought Vick was coming back too.
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@Statmachine I like your logic on Silvio. I hadn’t thought about him declaring if Bill didn’t think he’d be eligible.
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Wendell Carter with the rare helicopter Mom
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@BeddieKU23 She’s probably not a Kanye fan.
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Here is another good story about Moore.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’m excited to see him.
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Me too. He has a little of Mason and a little of Collins and both turned out rather well for KU.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is another good story about Moore.
I mean it’s another fluff piece like the UDK one. Hopefully I am wrong about him, I will withhold further posts regarding his play until he plays a game for KU or there are more rumblings about his play over the summer.
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I am curious why you seem to think Moore is not good or I should say not good enough to be excited. The City of Chicago alone probably produces more players than the 20 bottom states combined; you are not selected Illinois POY unless you are very good. He did have a very good season playing in the PAC 12, a major conference, and I would think that after one year in the KU system he would be even better.
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@JayHawkFanToo I certainly think he year at Cal was overblown. He was OKAY there.
