Re-worked pre-season top 25 for 2018-19
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It’s such a dumpster fire list. But reading who made it says it all.
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There’s no way KU should or deserve to be #1 right now. If Azubuike returns and Langford signs then there’s a case for being #1 but this will still be a team replacing 4 of 5 starters from its Final 4 team.
Gonzaga actually is the team that has benefited the most this off-season. Tillie & Hachimura returning was huge for them. With Perkins, Norvell & Kispert also returning they have 5 starters back. They add a high scoring transfer & a Top 100 big man as well.
There’s no way Villanova will be the same team unless Divicenzo & Spellman both return.
Duke, Kentucky- overrated just like every year. Relying on freshman in a down class, please be my guest
Tennessee makes some sense. Return a ton although Barnes always has a tough time living up to expectation
Virginia- returns largely the same team that couldn’t score. Must replace 2 starters and no established bench. Pass
UNC got a bump when Johnson decided to return. Little looks like a stud OAD. Will be a young team.
Michigan St will be fine but is being overrated this early.
Auburn- no way #11
Kansas St- Should be a top 15 team by the looks of it
West Virginia- Nope. Carter & Miles replacements- Beetle Bolden and who??
Virginia Tech- Should be good, #14 is high.
Oregon- No denying the talent infusion. Season makes or brakes on how interested Bol Bol is at playing. Louis King is a stud
Syracuse- Bubble team at best once again especially if Battle stays in the draft. Jalen Carey will be a star in time.
Michigan- Desperately needs Charles Matthews to return. Not really a top 25 team without
Loyola - Hard to imagine them duplicating their success but they have a solid nucleus coming back.
Clemson- Should be solid if the seniors return
Florida St- Underrated especially if Cofer gets a 6th year.
LSU- Lots of young talent. Wildcard bunch
Miss St- No thanks
TCU- Will be good once again, a bit underrated
Butler- Lose too much
Purdue- Losing the majority of your team. Metcalf somehow missed that
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@BeddieKU23 Parrish has us at #1 as well I think. If Doke comes back that is. But he left us at #1 even while assuming Newman and Vick left.
I think people are a little too high on our transfers. But I honestly expect us to be a top 3 team this season.
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@BeddieKU23 In your opinion who are the under-rated teams? Gonzaga and? If 21 of the top 25 are over-rated who do you think are the sleepers?
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@dylans lol I thought the same thing reading it. EVERYONE SUCKS.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Parrish has us at #1 as well I think. If Doke comes back that is. But he left us at #1 even while assuming Newman and Vick left.
I think people are a little too high on our transfers. But I honestly expect us to be a top 3 team this season.
We’ll have the talent of a Top 5 team especially if Doke returns. Langford would put us over the top.
I I think our ceiling drops a notch if De Sousa isn’t eligible. Perimeter shooting is the biggest team oriented weakness I see right now.
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@BeddieKU23 Agreed. I just think this is the most talented team Bill has had to work with in a while. And he has been seemingly overachieving lately. Probably not a great way to look at it, but I really do expect a lot this season.
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dylans said:
@BeddieKU23 In your opinion who are the under-rated teams? Gonzaga and? If 21 of the top 25 are over-rated who do you think are the sleepers?
Good question. So many incomplete rosters. I know my post seemed doom and gloom but it wasn’t intended to be that way.
The AAC was dismissed. Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis all return good talent and with Wichita & Uconn likely to be down they have good chances to be ranked.
NC St is an intriguing team. Adding 4 transfers and 3 Top 100 kids. Big talent shift.
Texas Tech is not going away. Beard will add more transfer talent to compete
Xavier, Creighton & Marquette from the Big East l
Washington & Utah from the Pac-12 as Arizona, UCLA & USC all take steps back
Forgot to mention Nevada who was in the Top 25 list. If their 3 players return they should be good again
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Nevada should be top 10. Those brothers are studs.
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Kcmatt7 said:
Nevada should be top 10. Those brothers are studs.
And they played most of the late season without their PG, having to shift one of the twins to PG. They add two high scoring transfer guards as well. If all 3 return its definitely a Top 10 squad
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Agreed. I just think this is the most talented team Bill has had to work with in a while. And he has been seemingly overachieving lately. Probably not a great way to look at it, but I really do expect a lot this season.
Definitely I’m drawn to the unknown. Lots of paper talent
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BeddieKU23 said:
It’s such a dumpster fire list. But reading who made it says it all.
Without looking I guessed Myron Medcalf. And well…SURPRISE!
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BeddieKU23 said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Agreed. I just think this is the most talented team Bill has had to work with in a while. And he has been seemingly overachieving lately. Probably not a great way to look at it, but I really do expect a lot this season.
Definitely I’m drawn to the unknown. Lots of paper talent
Lots of work to do, let’s see how the pieces fit. I think Grimes and Dedric are guys that fit on any team, they just know how to hoop.
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I see a team that will be far superior defensively than what we’ve seen in years around here. Our size will be astonishing down low. I think we will be able to count our losses on one hand. I think we’ll have a good shot at a repeat Final Four. I’m not sure Bill has ever had two 5 star guards to work with ( other than 2008, and that worked out pretty well), so we might see some very rapid improvement the 2nd half of the season. This could be a complete juggernaut at some point next year.
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I don’t wanna be preseason number 1, seldom does that team win anything in March. What happens with Doke with play a big hand IMO on how good we can be, the high low with him and Dedric could be pretty salty. Experience is what really worries me a bit, I know the Lawson boys and Moore have some D1 experience but they’ve never played in the NCAA tournament. You also never know how freshman will play at this level regardless of the number by their name. @KUSTEVE I really hope this team can guard, I have been unimpressed with our defense or lack of the last 4 or 5 seasons.
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@kjayhawks You’ll have to go back to 2012 to find a defensive team as good as next year’s team. We’ve got the largest front line in college basketball. The Lawsons are salty, tough minded defenders who like to mix it up. Doke is improving rapidly, and even if he doesn’t come back, Silvio is simply a beast down low. Then we have MacCormack backing up. That’s enormous size and depth, and I think we’ll own the paint on both sides of the court. Dotson is well known for being an excellent on ball defender. Add in Garrett, and you have the potential of a true lock down defense. I’m not sure how good Grimes is defensively, but being 6’5" sure doesn’t hurt. If Grimes is simply adequate, we are a lock down defense. If Grimes is a good defender, then we could be looking at a top 3 defense.
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kjayhawks said:
I don’t wanna be preseason number 1, seldom does that team win anything in March. What happens with Doke with play a big hand IMO on how good we can be, the high low with him and Dedric could be pretty salty. Experience is what really worries me a bit, I know the Lawson boys and Moore have some D1 experience but they’ve never played in the NCAA tournament. You also never know how freshman will play at this level regardless of the number by their name. @KUSTEVE I really hope this team can guard, I have been unimpressed with our defense or lack of the last 4 or 5 seasons.
KU might honestly be better off without Doke from a style of play standpoint. A KU line up with KJ and Mitch manning the 4 spot gives KU a pair of stretch 4’s that match up better than Dedric guarding on the perimeter.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 if Mitch can actually shoot. Yet to be seen.
I find it hard to believe not having a guy who shot 80%, in as many attempts as Doke took, not being a plus. This team doesn’t make a FF without him. Holding the Nova game against him seems short sighted to me. Who knows what he could accomplish in a full, healthy offseason. He seems to have the work ethic, motivation and athleticism to make tremendous strides by November.
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KUSTEVE said:
I see a team that will be far superior defensively than what we’ve seen in years around here. Our size will be astonishing down low. I think we will be able to count our losses on one hand. I think we’ll have a good shot at a repeat Final Four. I’m not sure Bill has ever had two 5 star guards to work with, so we might see some very rapid improvement the 2nd half of the season. This could be a complete juggernaut at some point next year.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2005/mario-chalmers-13070
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2004/russell-robinson-48889
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2006/sherron-collins-14638
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2005/brandon-rush-35212
08 TEAM WAS ALRIGHT I GUESS.
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kjayhawks said:
I don’t wanna be preseason number 1, seldom does that team win anything in March. What happens with Doke with play a big hand IMO on how good we can be, the high low with him and Dedric could be pretty salty. Experience is what really worries me a bit, I know the Lawson boys and Moore have some D1 experience but they’ve never played in the NCAA tournament. You also never know how freshman will play at this level regardless of the number by their name. @KUSTEVE I really hope this team can guard, I have been unimpressed with our defense or lack of the last 4 or 5 seasons.
#3 kenpom defense in 2016…
Eye test and traditional stats supported it too.
The tools will be there and with so many guys I expect Self to get after them if they slack on D. I mentioned it before but both the Lawsons are very lengthy and should disrupt on D.
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If Ethan Happ comes back, the Badgers will find themselves back in the top 25 I’m confident. They were playing pretty well by the end of the year.
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Interesting how few visits those 4 high ranked players took. Nowadays prospects will take every allowed visit and then some.
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wissox said:
If Ethan Happ comes back, the Badgers will find themselves back in the top 25 I’m confident. They were playing pretty well by the end of the year.
I was going to mention them. Threw caution to the wind because of the unknowns with the injuries. It’s definitely a big year for their coach keeping his job one would think right?
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@BShark See what I did there?
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@BeddieKU23 At the end of the season they were playing well enough to play MSU to the wire twice and beat Purdue. They get a freshmen back who was hurt who was playing well before his early season injury. Trice will be back too, but I’m not super high on him. They’ve had some major recruiting misses so I think this is a big season for Gard.
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wissox said:
@BeddieKU23 At the end of the season they were playing well enough to play MSU to the wire twice and beat Purdue. They get a freshmen back who was hurt who was playing well before his early season injury. Trice will be back too, but I’m not super high on him. They’ve had some major recruiting misses so I think this is a big season for Gard.
Definitely I thought they pissed down their leg in the Big-10 tourney against Michigan St. They looked better at that point then at any I saw them before. The Big-10 at this point looks down a considerable amount atm so I wouldn’t be surprised to see them do well in the league next year
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@Kcmatt7 Being a good player doesn’t equal being a good fit. Isaiah Thomas with the Cavs was a terrible fit for that team, but he’s still a very good player.
Doke is a good player, but his skillset doesn’t mesh well with the current game of basketball. Get him more than 5 feet from the basket on either end of the floor and he’s pretty useless.
It’s not about talent level in this case because Doke is a very talented player, it’s more about how well his style of play meshes with the current style of play.
His lack of rebounding ability also leaves a lot to be desired and Dedric is a far superior rebounder than Doke is.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Again, you are basically holding one game against him. When he wasn’t even 100% healthy.
What happens in the SHU game if Doke can’t go?
Writing him off from one game is short-sighted. Do I think there are games that Doke basically shouldn’t play? Absolutely. But those will be few and far between. Most teams don’t have a Spellman and Paschall combo. And any team that does, he shouldn’t play. I can agree to that.
But this completely writing off Doke because “the game has changed” is garbage. 99% of teams don’t have the combo of size and skill to beat Doke.
Are you honestly saying, you do not want back the one consistent post player we had from a conference champion, 1-seed, and FF team?
He was our best +/- last season. Highest effective FG percentage. Highest win shares. Best defensive rating per 100 possessions. Best offensive rating per 100 possessions. Most points per 40. Etc. I mean the advanced stats say he was head and shoulders our best player.
Just can’t buy, for one second, we are a better team all next season without Doke.
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@Kcmatt7 I’m not holding one game against him, I’m holding the season against him. Just about anytime KU struggled, it was because a team got Doke away from the basket and exploited that match up. That also made Doke much less effective on offense because his stamina still isn’t great.
In order to win a national title, which is still the goal every season, KU would have to figure out a way to beat teams with athletic 5’s who could take Doke away from the basket and guard on the perimeter which he has yet to show an ability to do.
You’re trying to turn this into a debate about Doke’s talent which I’m not questioning. I’m questioning how well that skill set meshes with what KU has next year and I don’t see his skill set meshing as well with a lot of new faces next year as it did with last season’s group.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Please reference these games where KU struggled because we faced athletic 5s pulling Doke from the basket.
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I seem to remember the guards being harassed beyond the 3pt line as the main source of losses last season. (I.e. ASU, Washington, and Texas Tech.)
If Dok were more mobile he definely wouldn’t be back next year and we’d have nothing to debate, but one heck of a player’s loss to lament.
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@dylans Bingo. Not one regular season game last year did I think Doke was the reason we lost a game other than the OU game. And that was at least 50% Self’s fault.
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@Kcmatt7 That was the most mad I’ve ever been at Self. Leaving Dok out there twisting in the wind was tough to watch.
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@dylans It was probably the worst 5 minutes of his entire coaching career. Really ruined the other 35 minutes of great coaching.
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The challenge with Doke is that he is so talented and can be dominant.
When the matchup is good, Doke can dunk another team to death and dominate the restricted area. We have all seen those games where Doke is basically unstoppable.
But when the matchup is bad, Doke becomes a liability.
The challenge when you have a player like that is that for 30 or 35 games of the year, Doke is either a huge asset or at least break even.
But for a handful of games, Doke is a liability, and in those games, he cannot play more than 5 minutes. PERIOD
But that’s tough. How many potential All Americans are out there that may not be able to play more than 5 minutes in a big game because of a bad matchup? But that’s where Doke is right now. If you can spread the floor, Doke can get out of sorts and becomes a liability. Doke could go for 18 and 15 in a Sweet 16 game, then be superglued to the bench in the very next game, only to be called on to give you 14 and 10 in the very next game. Can Doke handle that type of up and down? Can Self navigate that up and down? How do you determine if Doke is struggling because he isn’t playing well (i.e., off to a bad start, but should stay in the rotation for that game) or if its a bad matchup (i.e., Doke shouldn’t play another minute in that game)? And how do you do so quickly (by the first TV timeout)?
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Maybe Doke will be able to develop into a more versatile defender this off-season if he returns. Hudy was starting the scratch the surface with his body this year.
His bad matchup with Spellman he wasn’t 100% so its tough to get a full read how different he could have defended him if he wasn’t limited. I don’t think it would have been a big difference but we don’t know. At least its a glaring weakness that can be addressed either here with our staff or wherever he ends up.
