Doke Out First Weekend?
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BShark said:
I think we will absolutely need Doke for the 2nd game if we beat Penn.
Didn’t need him against West Virginia to play devil’s advocate.
I hope he plays Saturday if he can in a reserve role in case of foul trouble.
In Silvio we trust…
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I say rest him on Thursday and play him Saturday. Could he be a little rusty? Maybe, but why take the rest against the 16 seed? Let him heal even more and play against either Seton Hall or NC State.
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I would be shocked if he played thursday but more so if he didnt play against NC State or Seton Hall.
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Interesting how things work out. Does DeSousa fit this team, and it’s style of play better than Doke? No doubt, I’d rather have both. But with DeSousa and Mitch, that’s quite a few degrees away from Doke and his game (not 180 degrees, but maybe 90?).
Pretty impressive three game stretch this last weekend without Doke. Things sure seemed to click.
Perhaps not having the Doke option creates a better flow, a better on court chemistry? I’m not totally sure. Again, I’d rather have both. But it is interesting.
And there is no doubt that DeSousa is the superior rebounder.
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Thought the same things actually.
Silvio high points the ball and goes after it. Even when he didn’t get the rebound he seemed to affect the other team from getting it. If Silvio can play foul-free basketball for stretches he looked like the best option with our perimeter. It was just a 3 game sample but a hell of a sample as well.
Not having Doke seemed to have the greatest impact on Newman among the starters.
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Probably the best 3 game stretch all season. Hopefully it means the team is peaking at the right time.
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I would actually sit Doke against Penn, then have him ready for Round of 32. An extra couple of days to get right can’t hurt.
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As much I would want Doka to play. If he can’t get to 100% or close? Then I say don’t play him. First and for most his health should be the most important deciding factor. Yet remember hearing or reading that they have made a special knee brace for Doka. Not sure if that is a game changer or not.
I do like @justanotherfan view on the topic. Let him set the first round and bring him back for the round of 32. A couple more days of rest wouldn’t, couldn’t, and shouldn’t hurt.
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This has been a funny season in many ways.
If you asked me at the beginning of the season if we could win the Big 12 with Vick averaging at or around 10 points a game in conference play I would have said absolutely not.
If you asked me 1 month ago if we had any chance to be a 1 seed I would have said absolutely not.
If you asked me if we would win the Big 12 Tournament by 10 points in the final game without Doke I would have said absolutely not.
If you asked me 10 days ago if De Sousa could put up 20 and 10 against WVU I would say absolutely not.
Now, we have what everyone is calling the “hardest region” in the NCAA tournament and I am finally feeling like we could and even should make a run. If Doke comes back healthy and close to his pre-injury level of play we will be much tougher down low than before. The new and improved De Sousa / Doke will be a bigger load to handle than previously thought. I can’t wait to see how it all shakes out.
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Newman needs a big who can play away from the basket to open the lane up for him. Doke is not that player unless he’s screening for Newman and on the receiving end of lobs.
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We beat a really good West Virginia team without Doke. We can certainly handle Penn without him. Neither Seton Hall or NC State compare to West Virginia. Sweet 16 bound!
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@Jayhawk-in-OKC Seton Hall is better than WVU imo.
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I thought our team looked better with DeSousa in the lineup over Doke. I think the reason for that is our offense flows through our guards, and our game plan isn’t to feed Doke. Still, the big question for me is… can DeSousa keep Angel Delgado from doing whatever he wants down low? That big body of Doke would lean on Delgado a lot better than either DeSousa or Lightfoot. Even if Doke is a go Saturday, will he be so limited that he becomes a non-factor? Steph Curry took two weeks to recover from the same injury, and Steph is a much smaller guy than Doke. Still, I think having to truly rely on the 4 out, and getting all four of our guards into the offense is our strongest play, so the injury may turn into a revelation, and a blessing.
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We dont need Doke. Lets rest and heal him for maybe game 2 and on…May not need him for game 2 either. The more rest, more healing, and better he plays down the stretch.
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Matt Tait @mctait
The Jayhawks arrived at the team hotel in Wichita about 20 minutes ago… Self said Lightfoot will start Thursday & he hopes to have Azubuike available in an emergency capacity. Udoka was on court the last 3 days & ran today… #KUbball
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@BShark really not a good sign. Going to have to get past this weekend for him to be able to be effective whatsoever.
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@HighEliteMajor and there it is. The inevitable correlation with the Patrick Ewing Theory. When you take a dominant big man out for whatever reason and your team plays better do you mix up the rotation on arrival back or keep it the same rotation that brought you success before. Interesting question. The numbers are undeniable that that Silvio may already be our best rebounder, but Doke is our best offensive weapon when the 3s we jack aren’t falling. Someone smarter than I should deep dive this conundrum and give us a opinion.
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@BShark the move to stick with Mitch is a classic Self move that may never change, despite his recent change to coaching styles recently. Going with the more experienced player over the superior new comer. I, for one, think starting Silvio the first game of the tourney is so ballsy and would love to see it happen.
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@SkinnyKansasDude I want Doke back. I like the idea of Self matching to our game situation. We are better with Doke than without. But we’re better with DeSousa being the weapon we thought the hologram was going to be. I liked the way we looked with DeSousa.
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BShark said:
@Jayhawk-in-OKC Seton Hall is better than WVU imo.
I am curious why you think Seton Hall is better than WVU.
Ranking for WVU an SHU:
- AP - 15 and 38
- Coach’s - 14 and 38
- Sagarin - 9 and 26
- Pomeroy - 13 and 26
- Massey - 15 and 35
- Versus top 25 - 4-6 and 3-5
- Versus top 50 - 14-9 and 5-7
- SOS - 8 and 32
- Seeding - 5 and 8
- Conference - Big 12 is #1 Big East below that.
I don’t find any ranking, computer or human, that has Seton Hall even close let alone ahead of West Virginia.
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@HighEliteMajor of course I want Doke back, but it is a very interesting to see how well we played considering. I think Dokes injury, I’m sure we can all agree, excellerated Silvios dvelopememt. Would we be a better team without his injury? I think the clear answer is no… We improved while he was out and will be better when he comes back. Maybe that’s the theorie in a nutshell. The possessions usually tossed in the post are all the sudden divided amongst the rest of the team and thus the reps improve the player making for a better finished product. Individually improving every player for make the team better overall. I love basketball.
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Just watched the hawks arrive in Wichita, Self had a brief interview. Doesn’t sound like Doke won’t play Thursday but maybe suited up just in case. Self he wouldn’t have practice by Thursday so he not in favor of playing him. Sounds like he said he’d like to get some pt Saturday for sure but seemed hesitant on how much. I’d expect him out Thursday forsure now and probably not start Saturday, will probably depend on how things go on how much he plays then.
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@JayHawkFanToo Matchup-wise, I think we are a bad matchup for WVU. SHU will probably play us tougher than WVU did. They attack our weak spots better, imo. Delgado is legit on both ends. WVU doesn’t have an offensive threat in the post like him.
WVU is very easy to guard really. SHU guards are talented and can drive the ball as well as shoot the 3 well enough that you have to respect it.
Just not a great matchup for us really. But if we play like we did this weekend, it shouldn’t be an issue. When we shoot the ball well, not sure we can be beaten.
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@JayHawkFanToo Ranking mean absolutely nothing in the tournament, don’t care which ones you look at.
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@Kcmatt7 Delgado would have a field day if Doke can’t go.
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SHU are quick, they run the whole court, Delgado is a beast inside, and their guards can shoot the 3. They are going to be tough to beat, but we can beat them.
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kjayhawks said:
@JayHawkFanToo Ranking mean absolutely nothing in the tournament, don’t care which ones you look at.
Hyperbole much? Of course ratings mean something. Granted they don’t mean everything but they do mean quite a bit. If ratings have no meaning then the NCAA should get a bingo cage and draw teams at random instead of going through an elaborate procedure that looks at rankings among other parameters to determine seeding and pairings. The NCAA ranks team from 1 to 68 to seed teams; I am sure they would disagree that ranking mean absolutely nothing.
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@JayHawkFanToo Does the better seed always win? No further questions your honor.
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No, and this why it is called an “upset,” right?
What you are saying is that since upsets happen rankings don’t matter? I don’t know how to even answer that.
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the one seed ALWAYS beats the 16 seed
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kjayhawks said:
@JayHawkFanToo Ranking mean absolutely nothing in the tournament, don’t care which ones you look at.
Bullcrap, there’s a reason 1 seeds make the Final Four about 50% of the time and why there’s only been a handful of champs that weren’t a 3 seed or higher. Rankings matter.
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Rankings do not determine the outcomes, is really what I think they are saying. As we well know, unfortunately.
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@JayHawkFanToo I believe the ranking system he was using is his
test. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t personally agree, although I don’t think there is much of a chasm between them.
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KUSTEVE said:
SHU are quick, they run the whole court, Delgado is a beast inside, and their guards can shoot the 3. They are going to be tough to beat, but we can beat them.
And so can NC St
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I expected he would be limited for Thursday. If the game is well in hand at some point I think you give him a run for a few possessions and see how he does. And then hope the extra day he can get some practice in and be a rotation big on Saturday. KU is capable of beating Penn & either Seton Hall/NC St without him but the possibility that he can be a sub in the post on Saturday not only gives the team a 3rd big to play with but makes whoever we potentially play have to game-plan for him.
Further diving into this whole thing I’m cautious that we’ll see the same high level of play that we got from the Milvio duo (Mitch/Silvio). This is their first NCAA tourney they get to play in, nerves, pressure hits and you just don’t know what your going to get. When the Doke injury happened they were right smack in the middle of Big-12 tourney prep. The message was sent clear, Doke wasn’t playing, Mitch and seldom used Silvio needed to step up big. That was a challenge for them that they accepted and exceeded expectation. Is the challenge the same without the injury fresh in their minds? Between the high’s of the Big-12 tourney win, Selection Sunday, etc can we expect the same focus that they displayed with Doke’s injury? The whole team rallied by it, will we get the same intensity from the tip?
Self has talked this week about pressure getting to some of his past teams. I think the pressure is squarely on KU in the first round. I hope the guys come out ready to play.
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Here is a site with odds of each seed level advancing to each next round based on historical tourney performance.
https://www.betfirm.com/seeds-national-championship-odds/
A statistical anomoly is that a 5 seed has never won the NC so they are listed at 0% while 6, 7 and 8 all have 3% (total %age of all the seeds at those lines).
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I am concerned about SH if Doke can’t play or is not nearly at full speed. Delgado will be tough for Mitch and Silvio to handle.
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@Hawk8086 So…Go Wolfpack?
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@Hawk8086 Agreed. However, NC St has a 7’3" center.
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Hawk8086 said:
I am concerned about SH if Doke can’t play or is not nearly at full speed. Delgado will be tough for Mitch and Silvio to handle.
Mawien, Konate, had great games against the Milvio duo and it didn’t affect the final score.
Delgado is a solid big, nothing more really if you have seen him play. Just a 50% shooter from the field, poor FT shooter, hasn’t blocked a shot in 10 games at 6’10. He’s only scored over 20 points twice all season long both against Butler.
He is an underrated passer, IMO the best on their team so double teaming him isn’t a great option unless you trap him quickly. He’s the same build as De Sousa with maybe an inch advantage. He will turn the ball over like a PG because they run a lot of their offense through him. Kind of like Oklahoma St does with Solomon.
If we get matched up with Seton Hall its all about limiting the perimeter. Much like KU they rely heavily on 3 guards- Rodriguez is more of a brick house wing who would be a very tough matchup for Vick or Svi. Powell is their best shooter by far who’s made 89 3’s on the season. Carrington is kind of like Newman in our offense but is a better facilitator. I think KU matches up very well besides Rodriguez with SH overall
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@BShark West Virginia beat the #1 overall seed by 7. I believe they will make some noise in the tournament. I wouldn’t be shocked if they beat Villanova.
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I won’t be surprised if Murray State gives them a game. Don’t have them getting past the Shocks.
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@Hawk8086 Of course Mitch and De Sousa will have a hard time handling Delgado. However, they did a fairly decent job against Konate!
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@BeddieKU23 I’d definitely like to see Doke play some tomorrow. From what I can tell by reading, with the caveat that I am not a doctor, is that this will continue to hurt Doke for awhile. It’s much different than an injury that will heal up quickly if he stays off it. So he has to figure out how to play through the pain or just not play. Playing will not make it worse.
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@BShark Really? The “shocks” couldnt handle Houston in the conference championship game. Also, the “shocks” couldn’t handle OU at home!
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@BeddieKU23 Ok, you’ve made me feel better about the SH big guy.
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@Jayhawk-in-OKC You have made me feel better too. Now I’m worried about their guards.
