THE SKY WASN'T FALLING
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@HighEliteMajor Exactly.
One positive that may have come from this game (only time will tell) is maybe Graham got through to Vick.
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nuleafjhawk
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@BShark I don’t think SVI or DG played too bad, I just think they shot poorly.
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To continue what @Barney said, there has to be a difference between shooting poorly and playing poorly. If you can maintain your activity levels, get on the offensive and defensive glass, play sound defense, move the ball offensively, cut hard, etc., then even if shots aren’t going in, you can play well. With the exception of the missed FTs at the end, I felt like Graham played well last night. Same for Svi. He’s been struggling with his shot since getting the black eye, which I think may be distracting his vision ever so slightly.
Last night’s game was an okay performance. Newman continues to make plays going to the basket, which is going to be where he helps us the most. Ideally, fewer than half his shots are from three point range. That means he’s being aggressive and playing downhill. If we see that, that means he’s getting to the rim, drawing fouls, getting layups, etc. Good things happen when Malik slashes. That must continue.
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I definitely get the sense that Graham has regressed in his ability to finish at the rim through contact or not. Just seems like a lot of close range shots don’t go in for him, reminds me of how spoiled we were having Frank last year. I definitely think part of it is his iron man minutes being played. I also think he tries a little too hard with the throwing his head back, etc., to make it look like he was fouled and takes his head off of the hoop that might be playing a factor in it. Has anyone else noticed that he doesn’t finish well near the hoop the past few months?
Who knows, perhaps its just bad luck and it will even out at some point which would be awesome and would certainly come in handy here down the stretch and in tourney time.
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@RockkChalkk especially his reverse layups! His head fakes do get some fouls called, hear all the boos last pm?
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I am not sure why you feel yesterday’s win was not important or does not change anything. Look at ISU’s record at home in its last 4 conference games.
- Baylor - win 75-65, 10 points
- TTU - win 70-52, 18 points
- WWU - 93-77, 16 points
- OU - 88-80, 8 points
All convincing wins and 3 of those against the top team in the conference and 3 of those 4 teams have already beaten KU. Every KU conference win, except for one KSU game has been by 7 points or less. On paper, it looked like ISU should have won that game instead KU played well, including the two players that you though might be a cancer on the team, and won a game when its best two shooters were ice cold.
A loss last night and KU would have needed help from other teams to win the conference. Now, if it runs the table it finishes no worse than tied for the title…how exactly does this not change anything?
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@HighEliteMajor I think the reason for optimism is that Vick and Newman played well…we’re all hopeful that this will continue. We, as fans, do tend to overreact to both losses and wins, though…no question. Your are correct…several decent games in a row against better teams (like the next 2) might be more objective evidence that we have improved.
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@RockkChalkk I don’t ever remember DG ever finishing at the rim before this year. He used to do that little pullup before he would get to the glass.
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@KUSTEVE It’s because he doesn’t finish at the rim. He throws his head back, the ball up, and says a quick prayer.
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@JayHawkFanToo It’s always hard to logically respond to a knee -jerk emotional thought. I thought you did an excellent job trying to apply simple logic.
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@JayHawkFanToo My post was based on the fact that we’ve done this all year. Nothing in the narrative with this team has changed. By the logic of your post, every win means something. Beating Albany would mean something because a loss could hurt seeding. That’s all true, of course, but doesn’t change the narrative of this team. The point of my post was that us going to ISU and winning fits exactly the pattern with this team. What would indicate a break in the pattern might be winning both of our next two home games.
The win at ISU changes nothing with this team.
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@HighEliteMajor It makes everybody feel better, players and fans alike. Confidence and chemistry have been issues with this team, and a win in Ames should help. You’re right, nothing of substance has changed. We still lack depth, which is our main problem of substance. But getting everybody’s heads in the right place could very well help with the intangibles.
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@tundrahok I am curious, what about this performance indicates everyone’s heads are in the right place?
I mean, we’ve won at KSU, at WVU, at Texas. After all those wins were in the books, that looked no different than this win, Bill Self agreed chemistry was an issue with this team and that some players had not bought in. We won at WVU with that going on. This seems lower on the difficulty scale, than that.
Bill Self said nothing after the game that guys had now “bought in.” He said activity levels were better.
I would also suggest that if we have chemistry issues, and if everyone has not bought in, that is a problem of much greater proportions than lacking depth. I understand your use of the word substance, though, and what you meant – meaning, on court stuff. And you’re right.
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@HighEliteMajor I guess I’m just hopeful, trying to stay positive. Certainly it’s just one game, and it doesn’t necessarily mean everything is fixed. But frankly I was prepared for a loss, and we didn’t lose. So to me, we’re on an upswing!
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I feel like Vick having some success is a definite positive for this team that could prove big for this team. That would take KU back to having 5 legitimate threats to score. You can then sub in Mitch or Garrett and still have 4 spots you can score from on the floor. As I’m pretty sure @HighEliteMajor has stated, this is a team that can win a title if we get hot. This game was a reminder to everyone (including himself) that Vick is one of those guys that can get hot and change a game.
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Did you even bother to read my post? What does a non-con win has anything to do with the conference race?
The two players you referred as cancer had excellent games and that changes the narrative, at least for the time being. KU had a very good game, if Devonté and Svi shoot even close to their averages the game is a blowout. ISU had played very well at home in conference play and Hilton has been a place where KU has struggled, it was a very good win. Lastly, the win means, at least at this time, that KU does not need help from other teams to win the title. How in God’s green earth does this don’t mean anything?
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This is the perfect timing to win our next 13 games!
But we need to keep the urgency of a falling sky. Truth is… we need to come with urgency every single game, even if it is the conference tourney. Taking a night off now will do nothing but kill our momentum.
Really… the timing couldn’t be better! We win-out and take home #14… another conference tourney championship… and another national championship!
They should put up a big board somewhere listing each remaining game with a checkbox beside it. Stress the urgency of a win-out!
DONE LOSIN’!
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My old coach that mentored me said the following:
“Momentum is a pathway, and it has to start somewhere!”
Clearly… we had a period where we fell off the path. THAT is what is different from some of the other games. Even our wins looked horrible in that bad period.
My thoughts and prayers are with this team that the hard times are behind us.
On paper, we have one of the most-talented teams in the nation, when you factor in experience, too. Every game we play this year, we are “eating steak.”
Eventually… when you eat steak every night you would kill for a bologna/cracker.
I hope our guys are ready to eat steak again!
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@JayHawkFanToo To answer your age old question, yes, I read your post. You aren’t tracking. The reference to Albany is an ANALOGY. An analogy is something that is similar, or comparable, that explains the point. Your point is that the win means something. I’m saying just winning isn’t unique, and isn’t anything that changes the narrative of this season.
No one said the win does not “mean” anything. Who said that? Not me. It of course can help us win the conference title – and that goes back to the analogy - -the simple act of winning means something, like beating Albany and increasing (or not harming) seeding. I agree that it means something. Tracking now?
Further, I did not refer to any player as a cancer. Take your own advice and read my the post again. I simply posed a question. Further, the most I said was if I was forced to bet either way, I’d bet yes. In fact, I said we don’t have a “for sure” answer. Of course, falling back on that conclusions makes it easy for you and “others” to then create the false narrative of vindication somehow if something good happens.
And back to the use of the word narrative. Perhaps that’s what is confusing to you. The season has a pattern, things we’ve done, we’ve accomplished, we’ve failed at. Winning at ISU doesn’t change any of that. In fact, it fits the pattern. For example, before the home games vs OSU and TCU, I said it would fit the pattern if we lost one of those. Did losing one of those surprise anyone? Probably not. That’s the narrative. This team has been wildly inconsistent. Simply winning one game doesn’t “move the needle” on that at all.
And that’s my point, if you or “others” that get offended, care to try to follow.
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Statistically (if you are not concerned with random error), three (3) data points are required to confirm a trend…so how about we revisit after we beat WVU and OU?!?
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You can try to spin it any way you want. You used what in politics is called push polling where questions are worded like …if you found out that XXX frequents strip joints would you still vote for him? Of course there is no evidence that it ever happened but still leaves a big negative impression. Your question about whether Vick and Newman were a cancer on the team was exactly that. I certainly have no evidence that this is the case and I am pretty sure nobody else other than coach Self and staff would know that but we spent a good day discussing it…and the “alleged” pot issue… as if it was real.
Now, you are comparing the importance of an easy game against a nobody mid-major, Albany, against very tough conference game with heavy title implications and claim that both are just wins and nothing else? Really? and I mean REALLY?
You talk about patterns but if you want to look at them look at the one at ISU, 4 convincing wins in a row, all of them with margins larger than all the KU conference wins except for one at home including 3 again the other 3 top team in the conference and 3 of those teams have already beaten KU and at a place where KU has traditionally has had a hard time. More importantly, the win avoids, for the time being, having to depend on other teams to help securing the title. How can this win not be a big momentum changer as @drgnslayr mentioned?
The win at WVU was big because it stopped the bleeding and got KU back in contention; last night’s game was equally as important.
I am at a loss to understand why you try so hard to diminish what KU did last night. Don’t answer I am sure we all know.
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This season is the reason, I enjoy every win and never take wins for granted.
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@JayHawkFanToo I take it from your response you really have no response then.
The ISU win only helps change the narrative if KU affirmatively changes the narrative by winning the next two home games.
If we focus on momentum, that makes it easier … if we lose one of our next two home games, where did the momentum go? Right.
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I gave you a response but since it does not fit your “narrative” you pretend I did not. Cute.
Perhaps you have heard the expression…
The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. - Lao Tzu
Last night’s win was that first step. Perhaps KU does not win the conference title but without last night’s win the odds would be considerably longer, so yes, the win changes things quite a bit and puts a lot more pressure on TTU and takes some off KU. To most people this is a big deal, particularly when it looked like the teams might have finally gotten on the right track, but apparently to you is not, but then, you would rather have a Final Four than one of the most amazing records in all sports that will place KU in a place of its own and one that might never be broken. SMH.
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What do you get when you have a back and forth between someone who always wants the last word and someone who refuses to acknowledge any narrative other than his own?
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A typical sports forum?
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@JayHawkFanToo this reminds me of my kids last basketball game. A girl kept mauling my son in the paint. On one of their possessions her coach said “you can’t grab and push him”. She said “That’s how you play defense” . He said “except we’re on offense.” I congratulated her after the game for playing such tough “defense”. And I congratulate you and HEM on such a spirited “sports discussion”
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@JayHawkFanToo Probably! The correct answer, however, is a conversation between any two congresspersons of opposite political parties. Don’t know whatchyall were thinkin’…
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Interesting. The funny thing is that if @HighEliteMajor and I were congressmen/politicians I believe we would be in agreement 100% of the time.
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If we all agreed, all of the time then we would only need a blog for one. How boring and uninspiring. I enjoy each and every post…some affirm my thoughts, others cause me to pause, and many push me to rethink my position.
A smart man (or woman) changes his mind…a darn fool never does.
It took Coach Self exactly two games to distance himself from his “long term” solution (of starting two bigs): Win. Win.: Malik and Vick get back to the starting rotation. Self gets to expect better effort.
Whatever the ailment this team is being treated…how fast and reliably they bounce back… only time will tell. Exciting times ahead!
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CRH107 said:
If we all agreed, all of the time then we would only need a blog for one. How boring and uninspiring. I enjoy each and every post…some affirm my thoughts, others cause me to pause, and many push me to rethink my position.
A smart man (or woman) changes his mind…a darn fool never does.
It took Coach Self exactly two games to distance himself from his “long term” solution (of starting two bigs): Win. Win.: Malik and Vick get back to the starting rotation. Self gets to expect better effort.
Whatever the ailment this team is being treated…how fast and reliably they bounce back… only time will tell. Exciting times ahead!
Superb post in my opinion
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Nicely put. IMHO, part of being a member of the forum is to contribute with posts expressing different opinions, particularly with subjects with sports related controversial subjects. I try to contribute as much as I can but I will not touch posts in the political section, too much acrimony with that subject and not why I signed on to this forumn; I prefer to stick to sports, particularly KU basketball.
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HighEliteMajor said:
It is entertaining to listen to some that apparently think that this win changes something. It doesn’t even move the needle on the narrative of this season one degree. This is the pattern, if one is paying attention. Only future games, and consistency, say winning our next two at home, might suggest a change in the narrative.
How is that change in narrative coming along?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
HighEliteMajor said:
It is entertaining to listen to some that apparently think that this win changes something. It doesn’t even move the needle on the narrative of this season one degree. This is the pattern, if one is paying attention. Only future games, and consistency, say winning our next two at home, might suggest a change in the narrative.
How is that change in narrative coming along?
