Are We Into "Cancer" Territory With Newman?
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@Ralster I know that just like alcohol, it effects people differently. I just don’t care if our players are doing it.
Dotson and Grimes are pretty good fits too and have the side benefit of being highly ranked. Self has had success with similar guards. Grimes just needs to be okay with not being a PG, that is the one hang-up I can see out of this class.
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I started following Kansas basketball in the 60s. We have had a few bad teams in there over the years.
I’ve never seen one of our teams play with such poor intensity (in all those years) than what this team has shown us lately.
Most games now, we don’t even have a situation where one of our players dives on the court for a ball.
In the past few games, I started falling asleep during the games and I finally started to just skip to the end of games (DVR), just to see the outcome. I just can’t watch it.
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@Buster-1926 Did Doke tell you he didn’t want to be here? Are you the proverbial mouse in the pocket?
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Pot use impacts ever person differently. But I just can’t see the argument for it helping (or not impacting) where I can easily see how it could be detrimental to performance.
And the bad thing with pot… it stays in your system for at least a month. The effects will be in place that long (to some degree). And if there is continual use, the effects will probably become more intense over time because of the buildup in THC in the bloodstream.
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It hasn’t been pretty I agree. The first half against Baylor and in a lot of games lately has been discouraging. Its up to our HOF coach to figure it out at this point. Things either turn around tomm night or get worse…
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@BeddieKU23 He’s called out Frank before. Devonte, too. He called out Tyshawn practically every game for 2 years. He said the team couldn’t beat the Topeka YMCA a few years back. Newman may very well be a scourge to all mankind as we know it, or he might’ve missed some defensive assignments, and his coach sent a message.He had 5 assists the 2nd half, so maybe the benching helped.
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@KUSTEVE Self calls out players he thinks have something. It’s his way of trying to get it out of them when he feels it is needed*. Honestly I would be more worried about a player really struggling if Self didn’t call them out.
*Note how he handled Perry differently, because that’s not what Perry needed.
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Here are the rules regarding drugs from the Big 12 Conference Handbook…
SECTION 8
DRUG TESTING
8.1 Purpose - The Conference is concerned about the use of Big 12 and NCAA banned substances by Big 12 athletes. While the use of substances on the Big 12 and NCAA Banned Drug Classes List may result in severe sanctions for both the student-athlete and the Member Institution at which the student-athlete is in attendance, of greater concern to the Big 12 is the physical and psychological damage that such use can cause to a student -athlete. In an on-going effort to deter the use of banned substances and to protect the health and safety of all
Big 12 student-athletes, the Conference has instituted the Conference Testing Procedures.8.2 - Testing - Drug testing of student-athletes shall be conducted yearly in a manner consistent with approved procedures and may include on -campus year-round testing as well as testing at championships.
8.3 - Positive Test –Sanctions. A student-athlete who tests positive for the use of a banned substance, other than a “street drug” as defined by the NCAA/Big 12 Banned- Drug Classes List, shall be sanctioned by the Big 12 Conference as outlined below:
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(a) The student-athlete will be immediately declared ineligible for further participation in regular-season and post-season competition;
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(b) The period of ineligibility will be for a minimum of 365 days from the date of the specimen collection that lead to the positive test result (e.g., if the positive test occurs during a season of competition, the period of ineligibility must include at least the number of contests the student-athlete participated in during the season prior to the notification of ineligibility);
and
- (c ) The student-athlete shall also forfeit one season of competition in all sports because of the positive test result.
8.3.1 Second Positive Test - If the student-athlete tests positive a second time for the use of any banned drug, other than a “street drug”, he or she shall lose all remaining Big 12 Conference regular-season and post-season eligibility in all sports.
8.3.2 Positive Test for Street Drugs - With regard to a positive finding for the use of a “street drug” as defined by the NCAA Banned-Drug Classes List, an institution will be notified and shall impose a sanction consistent with institutional policy. [Refer to the Big 12 Conference Drug-Testing Protocol and
Procedures for the testing procedures and appeals process.]
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Sounds like the players can’t see the forest from the weeds, er, I mean… trees. The Big picture being: do whatever it takes to win.
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@justanotherfan So, living on the East Coast, I see UVA a fair amount. They definitely play defense on every possession. Teams struggle mightily to score against them. They aren’t really a deep team - 8 guys play double digit minutes. Cincinnati and TTU each have 10 guys that play double digit minutes, so they have fresh legs. Some of it is effort/desire, some of it is coaching system and technique and some of it is coaching choices. Self chooses to not play with depth. Again, maybe it’s an attitude thing we don’t know about, but does anyone really believe that the 9th and 10th guys on the Cincy and Tech rosters are better basketball players than Cunliffe? A guy that started as a freshmen at a D-1 school. Did things fall apart when Clay Young had to play a few minutes earlier in the year? At least he knows what’s happening on the court, in stark contrast to Silvio.
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Ralster said:
@dylans ha, funny thought: there’s role players (KU has some)…and roll players as in what kind of paper u using to roll that (KU may have a bag-o-dudes like that too). (laughter)
It was meant to tongue in cheek, but maybe too subtle?
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Ralster said:
(this not aimed at BShark personally but making a logic point in general). Sorry, just not logical to oversimplify it with an absolute “zero” statement. People can believe whatever you want, but where’s the counterbalance to the examples of pot-smoking players who could still play at a high level (Rush, Chalmers, Arthur), vs the players that it may indeed affect their grades, practice gym work ethic, or simply their attitude to be able to give a damn.
Come on, man, if anybody knows anything about any drug, they should admit it can affect different people differently! So give me the list of guys who played for KU that it DID affect negatively? But I doubt one may offer that, right?
Hey, I think Colorado is showing just how much $$ can be made off legalized pot, but you know, that’s not what this thread is for, really. Its about what statistical areas our team needs major improvements in & what our guys (all of them) are going to do about it? Stay focused. Do our guys have focus? Im not pretending to know which guys are affected by which possible issues, I’d just like to see they can statistically handle Bill Self’s business, something the team is not doing right now.
Eeh. We no longer hire interns from Colorado. Enrollment skyrocketed upon the legalization of pot. I don’t mind if someone smokes (or embibes alcohol) occasionally, but if you make your higher education decision based not on classes, but pot or alcohol I don’t need you as an employee. (Or on the ball team - cough Bragg cough)
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Well, whether or not team strife or wayward ways do exist, I see the major problems revolving around a shallow bench plus the lone big player who can’t always be counted upon to save a close game. Preston’s fizzling plus those 3 ineligible transfers waiting for next November plus transfer Cunliffe’s non-showing; those items tally substantial negatives. Then, by now, it was to be hoped, if not expected, that late-arriver DeSousa might adjust and develop quickly into a difference maker. The squad has drawn blanks on many fronts. Recruiting mistakes are much to blame; but, to be fair to coaches, who would have envisioned that Preston would have driven into troubled waters…or that Sam and Silvio would not be more productive? I think it is yet too early for all concerned to hang heads. There is plenty of precedence to offer positive thoughts going forward. Jayhawk Hoops is blessed with one of the best coaches in all of worldwide basketball. He yet quite possibly will steer this current halcyon situation toward active dynamite by way of reloading the win column. If the 7 kids he is playing do rally 'round to strive for victory, I’m a fan who thinks the Jayhawks can still compete for that league title.
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About damned time.
I was feeling pretty lonely out on this limb.
KU ties with Tech for a 14th Title.
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@jaybate-1.0 Curious how you see that playing out? We go 5-1 and TTU 4-2; 4-2 and 3-3? It’s not just that we are a game behind and they beat us at AFH. They appear to be only team in the conference that is playing better as time goes on - 6 straight wins (3 on the road, one of those out of conference). Definitely doesn’t apply to us…
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We go 5-1 losing only to WVU in a turnabout is fair play among great coaches.
We beat Tech. After we beat them, they lose one of two remaining, because of other teams doing the same exploit Self uses to beat them.
TTech is due for a slump. And I believe Self will expose a flaw in their game. Don’t ask me what it will be, because I am not a Hall of Fame coach.
Rock Chalk!
We have to believe in ourselves. Sun Tzu said it is essential for victory. If a bunch of guys playing for a HOF coach that has won 13 straight conference titles and is the winningest D1 program that has neither run up wins for 4 seasons at least point shaving for gamblers, nor has run EASYGATE eligibility ringers and had a coach (Frank McGuire) shit-canned for corruption, can’t believe, then who can?
And if this team has been using too much pot the last three weeks of really bad play, then piss on their stash and soak it in KSU experimental excrement, and lock them down except for classes and games, and tell them, "Boys, there is only one addiction around here that matters till April and that’s Kansas basketball. Anyone that takes issue with this and they get a half hour alone in a locked utility room in Allen Field House with @drgnslayr and Sosinski.
Rock Chalk!
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Whatever the reason Preston left a huge hole…big gapping…ginormous…unfillable HOLE. I wish we new the whole story and final findings. I have a bad feeling it ended badly either way.
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@jaybate-1.0 Ha, the reason you’re lonely on that 14th branch…is because there’s a spindly fiber of a dude (kinda looks like a cat, or a Vick with his hair flat back?)…who seems rather busy with a hacksaw near the tree trunk…
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Texas Tech. already had its slump when it went 1-3, they have now won 6 in a row.
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Ralster said:
@jaybate-1.0 Ha, the reason you’re lonely on that 14th branch…is because there’s a spindly fiber of a dude (kinda looks like a cat, or a Vick with his hair flat back?)…who seems rather busy with a hacksaw near the tree trunk…
PHOF!
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Texas Tech. already had its slump when it went 1-3, they have now won 6 in a row.
Due for their second one. All teams have two.
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Buster 1926 said:
@jaybate-1.0 Schizz
cannery row ?? Then bycrackie I believe too … Dear ole’ Buster first drank the kool aide way back at Met Stadium in 1926 there in River City and that ain’t no Bull hockey . We ain’t transplanted JB- “The roots of our raisin’“ really do run 
️ that deep.Rock Chalk!!!
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@BeddieKU23 @jaybate-1-0 @Buster-1926 @drgnslayr @BShark @JayHawkFanToo @justanotherfan @Ralster @hawk8068 @truehawk93 @DCHawker @REHawk @dylans @BucknellJayhawk3 @StLJhawk @Crimsonorblue22 @KUSTEVE @RockkChalkk @mayjay @HawkChamp @CRH107 @Big-Clyde52 @welladjustedhawk @Statmachine
Really appreciate all the input on this thread. My question was posed because we have never really seen chemistry and guys not buying in, in mid-February. Lots of possible answers that were explored above.
This could simply be that we are outmanned, but the outmanned thing only flies related to the lack of another big man. But what did we have last season? Mitch is as good or better than Bragg was last season, and we have Doke vs. Lucas. We also had Coleby, who didn’t do a lot until late.
Using what I saw as each players best rankings, we have the 8 (Malik), 22 (Doke), 36 (DG), 36 (Sam), 50 (Garrett), 51 (Vick), and 67 (Mitch), with Svi easily being considered at least a top 25 guy. Look at those rankings. This is a team chalk full of talent. Don’t ever say we’re not talented enough. We have the most talent in the Big 12 – easy.
On top of that, we have 2 seniors (DG/Svi), we have a junior (Vick), and we have a 3rd year player (Malik). Four starters who are upper classmen. What do we want?
Self has not said that we are outmanned. We all know Billy Preston would have been a big deal, and likely a big positive. But when we hear Self agree on chemistry being a problem, and then citing that some guys aren’t buying in yet, mid-February, the answer seems easy.
We are better than we’ve performed. We’re underperforming. Does anyone think that’s because Self has mismanaged on the court? I don’t.
We are underperforming not because of lack of talent, or being outmanned, or Self doing something wrong on the court.
There is something else. Putting our finger on that, exactly, is the difficult part.
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A Suggestion for Self and the staff- Do something unconventional with this team to break up the robotic grind that the season is right now.
After tonight’s game KU is home for the next 10 days or so. Tonight’s road game is huge for many reasons, Self has made a living at the bounce-back game, but doesn’t this group just give off a different vibe? This team is as unpredictable as any we’ve seen.
If we see another loss attributed to effort and individuals under-performing this would be a great moment to hit the reset button. Take a practice off and go do something team-bonding. Self has talked about this team playing better on the road because they are together, they travel, eat, prepare together. That focus that was working on the road didn’t work in Waco. After the Ames trip we have Gameday in Lawrence and OU coming to town. Would be heck of a time to do something not expected and get these guys all on the same page.
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@HighEliteMajor et al
Going to remaster the obvious here.
The team has quality, but insufficient quantity and the quality it has is unevenly distributed. The problems distilled are:
Asymmetric mix of perimeter and interior players;
NO PG Backup;
NO three-man big rotation with a fourth for foul ups and injuries and slumps;
NO low post back up;
Starting post man impressive but can’t be in at crunch time, because he makes <50% of FT;
Very weak rebounding when injuries and/or fatigue come into play;
Five (Doke, Vick, Malik, Mitch, Marcus) of seven rotation players that have never started or rotated for a whole season and won a title.
The above list of deficiencies trigger losses when hot shooting streak of much of season ends last few weeks.
Team still using loss of Preston as excuse, which though true, is bad for thinking next and finding Ws the hard way.
Losses lead to finger pointing.
Kruger really unnerved them with fouling of Doke.
They recovered slowly only to hit a shooting slump. No team wins shooting 19% from 3.
They need to get hot again from trey.
It’s the only way short teams with one footer that can’t make FTs can win.
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There is definitely some in-fighting on this team. @jaybate-1-0 called it really early too just observing, so credit where credit is due.
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@BShark why do you think they are not getting along?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Sometimes people just don’t get along and no amount of help will change it. I don’t know any specifics.
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Unfortunately playing time is not an incentive, deterrent or provides any leverage. You have Devonte playing 40 mpg, Doke and Lightfoot take another 40 minutes and Svi takes around 35 so you have 85 minutes left to distribute among Newman, Vick and Garret or 25- 30 minutes each, regardless, since the rest of the players don’t see the court much.
Svi has asked to play around 30 minutes or less, if I am not mistaken, which would seem to be a good number for a starter, so there is plenty of uncontested playing time available.
Vick and Newman who appears to be the ones in the most trouble with Coach Self know there will be plenty of playing time so perhaps they do not feel like they have to earn it.
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@HighEliteMajor Good stuff. So, you noted that we have 8 players with top 67 rankings coming out of HS - actually, it’s 9 with de Sousa. Not only is that far and away more talent than any other B12 team, I would guess (haven’t checked) that is more than any other team in the country not named Duke or Kentucky. That’s 9 guys that were at least HS or international studs that should make for a deep and talented roster. 8 of the 9 have had double digit scoring games in D-1. Yeah, we don’t have a true back-up point guard, but we didn’t with EJ either. The combo of Malik, Svi and Garrett should be able to run the offense for a couple of possessions each half to give DG a 2 minute blow before a time out (should be doing that if for no other reason that DG will get into foul trouble in some critical game).
Maybe it’s not the right mix of guys - e.g., not a single one with a knack (kind way of putting failure of effort and boxing out) for rebounding (boy, we could only hope one of these guys was a Kevin Young type), including Doke. None that can really create their own shot consistently. None that can finish well at the rim.
Or, maybe it is chemistry or cancer. I don’t know, but I am tired of the undermanned excuse/cop-out. Villanova beat us and won a NC with 7-1/2 guys and one serviceable big.
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I don’t think we have a serviceable big. Yet. He’s a baby-so far.
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I’m exactly with your last post. Exactly.
That has brought me to several conclusions…
The most-obvious conclusion is that we have carried this concept of being undermanned all year. And now we have picked up a couple extra players that aren’t exactly burning up the court, but they do give us some emergency backup.
So isn’t it possible we have brainwashed ourselves into feeling like we are an inferior team this year? We’ve been leaning on this “undermanned” crutch all year and maybe we finally put too much weight on it and snapped the crutch!
That is one idea. Hence, my solution for this is that we do NOT accept any excuses (crutches) moving forward.
Okay… so if that isn’t the biggest issue… let’s start looking at some excuses (reasons) why we are playing so poorly. In this thread, we have played two new reasons:
- Team feuding
- Pot use
It doesn’t seem like we can totally substantiate either of these reasons. But we are seeing WHY we are losing so many games; lack of hustle! Most of our guys seem to be more interested in watching the game instead of playing it. Just watch tonight. Shots will go up and watch what our players are doing. They are just watching the game, not fighting for rebounding position.
Maybe our guys are just too busy NOT being in the present. I covered that in another thread… not too many people seem to buy into that one. The book I mentioned really describes how performance in our lives is optimized by keeping our consciousness in the now.
Consider how much pressure is on these guys to extend the streak. That pressure only exists when our guys are NOT engaging in the present. If they aren’t in the present, they are in the past or in the future. In the past thought probably goes like, “oh man, our last 13 teams have won our conference and we really have to win it, too!” This is stressful and induces our guys to watch the game more than play it.
Then they think of the future… “oh man, we are going to be the team that blows the streak! We will go down in KU history as the team that blew it! Yikes!” This is stressful and can either help to develop a chip or it can freeze our guys because of the fear. Obviously, it looks like the later!
I’ve been busy trying to apply this book to my life. Trying to live more in the present. It isn’t easy to do because it means retraining the brain and requires killing that constant voice running in my head. It requires a kind of zen approach to removing all the chaos in the mind and focusing on just one thing. So far, I have been able to do it in spurts. Those spurts are excellent! Wish I could have applied it back in my own basketball playing days!
