Border War to start back up??
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Ok MUMatt.
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I don’t understand why you can’t grasp that this isn’t the only way to generate donations. I didn’t say don’t donate. I said don’t sell your soul. There is a major difference.
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dylans said:
Ok MUMatt.
A real clever one are we?
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@dylans But how can you raise as much money as possible?
“The opportunity to make an impact on those suffering as result of the hurricanes, through the game of basketball, is a great opportunity for our program,” Kansas coach Bill Self said. “How can we raise money to send to others? To me that trumped everything else that we could possibly do.”
Bill says exactly how I feel on this subject. And unless you can find me a way for a surefire $1M to be raised in a weeks time, maybe you should think about your own stance on it.
I just don’t understand how an untelevised practice game is selling our soul. I would like to be enlightened though, if you could help me with that? Maybe I just don’t see your side of it. I do in fact hate Mizzou. But, I do my best to not let emotion make my decisions in life. This game being played is logical from my viewpoint. I would like to understand yours if you could list out the reasons that you do not want this game played with an explanation. Feel free to write as long of a post as you need to be able to articulate your views, because I’ll be more than happy to read it.
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There are over 300 other Basketball teams that KU could play to accomplish the same goal. I feel KU could make MORE just by playing in Allen Fieldhouse and then they could control 100% of the costs to ensure the money gets where it is supposed to go. If it’s truly for charity wouldn’t UNC like some good pub about now? Or how about Kentucky/ Duke? Would they publicly pass on an opportunity to raise money for charity? How about playing Texas in Texas to raise money for Texans? I don’t see a good argument FOR missouri therefore I don’t see a need to further denounce them. (Game of throne’s reference here) It’s like the people who like the Lannisters. It doesn’t matter how dastardly they are the temptations are too great to stay away for the weak willed.
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@dylans Read the article, there are not 300 teams. The realistic options are teams within bus range. 100% would rather do it with UMKC though.
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@dylans Ok, but run the logistics of those suggestions through your head now. Do 16k people drop what they are doing next week to watch UMKC vs KU? Probably not. Can’t get big donors to even show up for games they probably paid $1k a ticket for early in the season.
You have to keep it close enough that teams bus in. And the only other team that could sell out Sprint Center and bus in so that way both teams can keep a normal practice schedule is MU.
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How about WSU? We owe those suckers! And they aren’t scum that tried to bomb our conference. Oh and they are a top 10 team. And a team that has sent us home recently. WSU is equally as unlikeable, much less shady, a better team than MU, and doesn’t piss half the fan base off. Also you can play the game in Lawrence or Wichita to keep the tax boon from the game staying in state. I hate that the soulless sprint center is in MO.
That is but one of the hundreds of other teams KU could be playing…
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@dylans Not sure WSU would do it.
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@BShark If KU fans wouldn’t buy up the tickets WSU fans would. That would add insult to injury after they likely whoop us in the scrimmage while taking it waaay too seriously. Marshall would probably get tossed…
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Can it go that way?
Do you think the Mizzou players can go back on campus with their heads held high after playing a fluff game with Kansas?
I believe they are getting a lot of heat to really go all out and kick our arses. Meanwhile, we are treating this like an all-star game…
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@dylans I would have been for WSU as well. And would have gone to that game too. But, I still don’t think it would have sold out for as much per ticket in a weeks time. Which would have meant it raised less money. Which is the only aspect I care about when it is all said and done. What team can we play that allows us to donate the most money. And I just feel like Mizzou is actually that team on short notice.
I don’t want to play Mizzou in a regular season game. At all. But this, I can put my hatred aside.
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I wonder how many people who logistically can’t make it to a game would simply donate if asked? Maybe I’m missing it, but I still haven’t seen either university ask for cash donations. And if so when did this start? On day one or just this week? So I don’t feel as though the intentions are sincere which further increases my unwillingness to play Missouri.
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So what happens if we lose the scrimmage?
We will never hear the end of it. Never.
And then we are just going to remain silent and distant while being called “Chickenhawks” by the entire world?
I convinced myself long ago we need to kick this rivalry back up. It is a huge national event that has Kansas basketball in it. It’s always real games instead of just another milktoast game. It can only help us get ready for March.
And actually, NOW is the time to bring it back so we can bump off the UK vs UL game as THE big rivalry game in college basketball. Someone is going to step up and take that mantle now. Might as well be us. Otherwise… it will be Duke vs UNC.
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@dylans What if the idea never came to Bill until just recently? Someone said his dad was the one to suggest it. If you feel it is insincere there is probably nothing that can be said to change your mind and I’ll gladly agree to disagree now that I understand your point of view better.
And I think that there is the assumption that, if you want to just donate, you should. But this is an attempt to get money from those who otherwise wouldn’t donate.
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@drgnslayr We move on and don’t care about it because it’s a scrimmage. Mizzfans are dumb and wouldn’t shut up about it that’s for sure though.
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@drgnslayr If we lose, we lose. Hasn’t WSU been calling us the Chickenhawks for years? Recruiting still seems fine. Program seems to be humming along like usual.
I do think it needs to be brought back at some point. But I’m not sure now is the time to officially, officially bring it back. If we don’t bring it back soon enough though, it could be a rivalry that is lost. Which would be sad in my opinion. I think one Mizzou is a decent program again, it would only benefit us recruiting in KCMO and STL to whoop their a** every year.
I just think we need to wait until basically everyone who was involved with both universities during Mizzou’s switch to the SEC is gone. At that point, I think everyone should be able to bury the hatchet.
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I have a hard time believing Bill didn’t realize what was going on or that charity ball events are possible. Jaded I guess. But I’ve lost a ton of respect for Bill over this one. Just last year he was never going to play MU again as long as he had a say in it. I’d rather this was forced upon the program by the powers that be, than Bill’s idea (or his Dad’s). I hate everything about it. He had better win a ton of games in March to pay for the collateral damage.
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@drgnslayr To hell with any validity to this madness or risking injuries to key personnel. I think he should only play walk ons & scout team. misery may just play whack a mole’. I say F_ them slavers … What this really accomplishes is what they wanted since becoming an irrelevant element of the sec - Re open the door to the KC market they walked out on. Kinda like wantin to go back & sleep with the ex after the D. This only amounts to the screwin they get for the screwin you got.
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A heck of a lot of anger and emotion being expended on a charity event. Much as I hate to say it, much of our fanbase is justifying @HighEliteMajor’s accusations all along.
Maybe people should go back and read Lincoln’s 2nd Innaugural Address. “With malice toward none and charity for all…” He was trying to wind down an actual Civil War and bring a country together. Pretty sure those of you objecting, if you had lived back then, would have accused him of being a sell out (as HCBS is being accused), and instead of healing wounds would have not rested until every last Reb was hanged.
And since it didn’t happen then, well, by crickey, let’s keep the hatred alive and get 'em now.
“Charity for all?” Oh, hell no! Not of it isn’t set up the way we want!
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Wichita State would have sold out every bit as fast.
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Never said otherwise.
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@mayjay Thank you for making me not feel like an insane person.
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@dylans Sad & sorry to say but a lot of middle America needs an “event” to be charitable - like golf tourneys, & tax shelters & so on … just philanthropy by itself is not common for the middle class. Johnny Morris, Gary Morsch, or Bob Hope yeah. But Joe Schmoe likes his special interests served with a little tax credit on the side.
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@mayjay I’m glad Hitler didn’t ask to play hoops for charity. We’d have to pay to watch or be acccused of being heartless jerks whom bathe in the tears of our country men. Crazy. No one has said charity is bad. Many are just questioning wether the end justifies the means. (Hint it never does if you have to ask)
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@globaljaybird What will be interesting is to see how the ticketed event gets valued for tax purposes. You can only deduct the amount that is in excess of the fair value of the event for which you receive admission. The ticket receipt had better spell this out. Maybe they will say it is free and the entire price is the donation. I hope they figure this out or the deducting fans might be unhappy to find out they are limited to $10 to $100 or so depending on location.
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@dylans MU is Hitler? So, Self must be akin to Philippe Pétain, and the rest of us should be tried for collaborating?
“When one’s life is centered singlemindedly around defeating the enemies one has or perceives he has, there is a deep risk of becoming much like one’s own worst enemy.”
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@dylans So Bill Self is Hitler in this scenario?
Just to keep a list of things that have been said.
- This game has been compared to Lawrence being burned to the ground and the murdering of 200 people.
- Bill Self has now been compared to Hitler.
- We would rather play a game against the North Koreans than Mizzou.
Edit: Sorry, apparently MU not Bill Self was compared to Hitler. Where it says Bill Self in my post above, please read MU.
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@Kcmatt7 Don’t forget that the charity’s purpose is not worth it.
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@Kcmatt7 Umm I compared Missouri to Hitler.
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@dylans Yea that isn’t any better lol. I’ll edit my post above.
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guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys
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It certainly isn’t to MUmatt
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@Kcmatt7 Yeah, @dylans is right on that. MU, not Self–he is merely less respectable now and has to do penance.
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@mayjay That’s right. Forgot about that.
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@Kcmatt7 Is it ok with you if I have a different opinion than you??? Have the game at the Phog.
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@KUSTEVE I think he is ok with other opinions but the antagonism to the event is pretty deep. Your idea of the Phog is interesting but I can’t imagine why MU would do that.
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@mayjay Thank you. @KUSTEVE I’m ok with a different opinion if the opinion were as simple as, I’d prefer to play someone else because I think it would made just as much money.
I have then made the point that KU vs. MU is the most likely to make the most money on short notice and work logistically. Nobody has made a point to counter that and provided support for that claim. Some have said WSU. I think WSU would have been great. I think it would have been very close to a sellout. But I’m not as confident that it would be as I am with MU. Being as how MU has a larger fan base in KC than WSU and more alumni. So I think the safer bet to sell out the arena would be to play MU.
I like the idea of playing at the Phog. But, if the Arena space is donated at Sprint Center, and we can squeeze in another 2k people which raises even more money than we could in Allen, it only makes sense to have it at the Sprint Center.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@dylans So Bill Self is Hitler in this scenario?
Just to keep a list of things that have been said.
- This game has been compared to Lawrence being burned to the ground and the murdering of 200 people.
- Bill Self has now been compared to Hitler.
- We would rather play a game against the North Koreans than Mizzou.
Edit: Sorry, apparently MU not Bill Self was compared to Hitler. Where it says Bill Self in my post above, please read MU.
I think we’d destroy North Korea. Trump can use it as his bomb and end his stupid war of words with the fool over there!
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@Kcmatt7 You and I have some major fundamental differences that we will never be able to gap. I appreciate the back and forth but there is no further need for discourse, this will be my last post on the topic feel free to answer as you wish.
You clearly want to see the MU vs. KU game happen. I do not. I would rather see the WSU vs KU game happen. I feel WSU is a more appealing and worthy opponent it seems you do not. You imply the largest city in kansas with the wealthiest family in the state (Koch) couldn’t muster the same finiacial support that KC missouri fans would bring to the table. Nevermind that KU already owns the big money in KC, but playing MU is just splitting the same city. Financially there is no major upside to playing MU vs. WSU. If a team is to benefit from the matchup it’s whomever plays against KU, so why lend a hand to MU instead of an in-state top 10 team? People from Wichita would travel much further than 3 hours to watch WSU play KU.
Hell, tell the Koch’s that KU will play WSU in Wichita if they will donate $1millon. Don’t tell me they wouldn’t be able generate $1,000,000 in donations in 48 hours in Wichita for that. And then the gate procedes go on top of that. Zenger is a moron. Lou would’ve been able to generate 5x the money if he so desired.
Please try not to accuse people of being selfish or unwilling to donate to charity just because they don’t want to donate the way you do. It’s simply a bullying tactic that will make many dig in to positions counter you just to be contradictory to your stance. Can’t side with you so they must be against you by default. (Us vs. them dichotomy as approx has pointed out.)
That is my stance. I appreciate that you do not see it that way.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@dylans I had no idea there were so many people here that are against donating money to charity. Talk about showing true colors.
There you go again with your worn out straw man. NOBODY is against donating to charity…N-O-B-O-D-Y. In fact is quite the opposite. Many of us have indicated that we should donate money to charity because it is the right thing to do and not because we expect something, i.e. a game, in return like you appear to endorse. Keep telling yourself this if it makes you feel better.
How does this game effect KU in any way. How does this game prop up MU in any way? The game won’t even be televised Nationally. It is almost literally a pickup game that will be televised.
At this time the MU program is barely sticking out its head from the dumpster fire it has been in recent years and where it will go back after Martin leaves after the customary 3 years. Playing KU gives the program credibility and exposure it badly needs. Playing Wichita State could have raised as much, and if you consider the potential side bets between the Koch’s and some of KU’s well heeled donors, considerably more. The headline would have been Kansas teams raise lots of money for charity and challenge Missouri teams to do the same…much better all around.
Remember when I suggested it would a glorified scrimmage? I was told this would not be the case; you guys that favor this game should make up your minds.
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@Kcmatt7 I compared one unwanted invasion from Misery to another unwanted invasion from Misery. You love the game…many of us hate it.
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Ok – Hate, scum, racism, massacres, Hitler, pimp, slavery, Philippe Pétain, and little rocket man. All in one thread. Right or wrong, it’s MU’s fault. They inspired this vile, yet very entertaining, thread.
Can we all please agree, like the game or not, worried about injuries or not, that Self should play this game full out, full throttle, take no prisoners and run them into the ground?
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@HighEliteMajor Hubba, hubba.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Kcmatt7 said:
@dylans I had no idea there were so many people here that are against donating money to charity. Talk about showing true colors.
At this time the MU program is barely sticking out its head from the dumpster fire it has been in recent years and where it will go back after Martin leaves after the customary 3 years. Playing KU gives the program credibility and exposure it badly needs. Playing Wichita State could have raised as much, and if you consider the potential side bets between the Koch’s and some of KU’s well heeled donors, considerably more. The headline would have been Kansas teams raise lots of money for charity and challenge Missouri teams to do the same…much better all around.
Remember when I suggested it would a glorified scrimmage? I was told this would not be the case; you guys that favor this game should make up your minds.
SWISH !! You nailed my feelings entirely about WSU & this “urgent” call for a charitable event. Seems as a knee jerk deal like this with misery is incredibly short sighted AND foolish. Up selling other potential philanthropic events is simply a no brainer. Bucket challenge ?? Why did we not keep this all in our own state’s tax base in Kansas & let misery stand alone knee deep in the world of shit they have invited to Columbia, anxiously awaiting Lucifer’s command to “get down on all fours boys, coffee break is over!” ?? Let em sleep in their own free dorm cesspool.
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Self tried to do a good thing and Mizzou still stabbed him the back by leaking it before they had the details worked out. GO FIGURE.
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Also… mark my words: it will get ugly, if not on the floor, then in the stands.
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Believe it or not, I have a funny Hitler story: On October 14,1980, Sec’y of State Edmund Muskie came to Ann Arbor to speak on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of then-candidate JFK’s speech where he announced the plan to start the Peace Corps. Just as JFK did, Muskie spoke on the Student Union steps. A few members of a student organization called the Spartacist Youth League started shouting out slogans objecting to various US foreign policies (“1, 2, 3, 4 We don’t want your Mideast war” – this was during the Iran hostage crisis and after the failed rescue; and “Peace Corps is a CIA front”). Then they started trying to drown him out with questions about things not remotely related to the Peace Corps like “What about Greece?” (or some such place) and “What about Afghanistan?” which the Soviets had invaded.
The other thousands of us listening in the audience were really disgusted that about six nitwits were trying to ruin the event set up to celebrate the beginning of an idealistic volunteer organization. Finally, my friend yelled out, during an odd moment of silence, “Yeah! What about Hitler?” Everyone just cracked up at the apt satire.
The idiots yelled a few more times and then Muskie broke off his sppech and made a brilliant response, paraphrased here to the best of my memory: “You who are here raising your voices, why not raise your arms instead? Raise your arms up to help people who don’t have the food you have, who don’t have the water you have, who don’t have the luxury you have of attending school, let alone college? Why not join the chorus of volunteers who have raised their voices to say ‘Yes!’ instead of ‘No!’?” Audience went crazy. Idiots shut up.
So, when people bring up totally irrelevant crap, my personal shorthand is always “But what about Hitler?”
Maybe not so funny. But a really cool memory.
Wikipedia: "The Spartacist League is a Trotskyist political grouping. They are the United States section of the International Communist League (Fourth Internationalist), formerly the International Spartacist Tendency…
In the United States, the group is small but very vocal, and its activities within leftist-activist coalitions and wide-scale social justice protest movements usually focus on presenting a pole for regroupment and recruitment of subjective revolutionaries on the basis of an internationalist, Bolshevik-Leninist program. Among the American left the Spartacist League is considered particularly notorious for its defense of the North American Man/Boy Love Association and Roman Polanski, and defending North Korea from capitalist restoration."
