Texas Tech Red Raiders
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@kjayhawks this year when the weather was bad
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@kjayhawks All that stuff began prior to the Orange Bowl season. KU tried to raise funds to add on to the east side of the stadium after the Orange Bowl and didn’t come close to raising the $25 million or so that project was supposed to cost.
Phil Knight didn’t wait for Oregon to have a winning program before pouring millions into the program, he just started giving them money to upgrade everything. Same with Pickens at OSU, the winning came AFTER the investment into the program.
If the administration waits for KU to find a coach to turn the program around before investing into the infrastructure of the program, we’ll all be pushing daisies before that happens. Post WWII, KU has had 4 great seasons, the 3 OB teams and the 1995 team.
We cannot expect to be able to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. KU has to improve their stadium to not only hope to attract a quality coach, but to also keep a quality coach when/if they find one. The 3 best coaches KU has had in the past 50 years either left for another program (Pepper Rogers and Glen Mason) or were actively seeking another job (Mangino). Having competitive facilities will not only increase the likelihood of landing a better quality coach, but also of keeping said coach.
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@ICTJayhawk Big 10 wants to get the B10 Network into KC and has been interested in KU for a long time. When the Big 10 expanded in the early 90’s with Penn St., KU and Missouri were both very legitimate options at the time and had invitations, but both schools declined and chose to remain in the Big 8 and move with the rest of the league members into the Big 12.
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@kjayhawks If you legitimately think KU needs to wait for the right coach before rebuilding the stadium, you need to ask yourself this question.
If the best candidate KU can hire in the current situation is a guy who flamed out at Notre Dame and a guy who was a position coach, why should we expect another AD to find anyone any better? What incentive is there currently for a quality coaching prospect to come to KU?
A newly renovated state of the art stadium is a much better recruiting pitch than to have kids come play In the concrete mausoleum that is Memorial Stadium.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 still not what you said. That upgrade wasn’t early in MMs tenure. Baylors stadium sucked during their turnaround as did KSUs, TCUs and dukes according to a buddy that lives in Carolina and went to the KU Duke game a few years back has the worst stadium he’s ever seen (including memorial in the 90s). Duke wins 6 or 7 games most years. Let’s stop making excuses we will suck til someone with a brain runs our program and athletic department.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I HOPE you are correct about moving to the B1G…I would LOVE for that to happen. But unless football changes to even mediocre, I don’t know that it’s anything like a “given.” Though it’s nice to believe, I seriously doubt KU and/or Missouri ever had an “invitation” to the Big10 (at that time) in the 90s. Other than somebody merely saying something like that I have never seen a credible report of that being the case. The former President of Ohio State said he always though the Big10 SHOULD have added Kansas & Missouri in the 90s but he never said that was the sentiment of others or that it was even voted on by the Big10 or an invitation extended.
KC is the largest market we could add but as a media market it’s only 33rd in the country, hardly a “get”. The BIG could have added Missouri and the St. Louis media market as well when Missouri hiked it’s skirt fairly recently, and it obviously didn’t seem compelling enough for the B1G to do it then! I really do hope that KU ends up in the B1G…and sooner rather than later. But, to think it is a “given” or a “slam dunk” is looking at it with rose-colored glasses rather than in the stark light of the day, in my opinion FWIW!
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One quick fix for the stadium experience would be pushing the mute button on that *&$#$# scoreboard.
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You mean it’s to loud?
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@DanR I agree, it’s hard to understand how we can be this bad in year 3 of Beaty, returned 6 guys on defense and 8 guys on offense to go with 17 guys on the two deep from a year ago. We pretty much have 2 new corners and a safety, then a new lineman and QB on offense. They just don’t make an excuse good enough.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
You mean it’s too loud?
Screw the noise. Maybe the whole scoreboard should just be turned off. Then we could at least pretend we still have a chance for an entire game.
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Kill the power?
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I am curious when and why this was necessary. Doesn’t KU have the Anschutz Sports Pavilion where the various teams can practice indoors if needed?
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@ICTJayhawk Big 10 already has the St. Louis market covered with Illinois. Illinois might not be the dominant fan base in St. Louis, but it’s significant enough that they didn’t need Missouri to already claim a foothold in St. Louis.
Maryland and Rutgers were absolute door mats of programs when the B10 announced their additions to the league which were solely based on their locations. KU gives them access to KC which is the biggest market in that part of the country they don’t already have a foothold in.
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@JayHawkFanToo Not really a great practice facility for the football team. They have to bus over the team when they use it.
Not to mention, we could probably use a second indoor practice facility for everyone. On a crappy day, you also have to squeeze the soccer, football, baseball, softball, cheerleading and Dance (maybe even track?) all in that building in one day. And you have to do it around each team’s schedule because their players have classes scheduled a particular way so that they can practice at certain times. Kind of a logistical nightmare for everyone involved.
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My point was that in a pinch, it sure would be closer than KC where arrangements would also have to be made with the facility, which I take would be the Chiefs practice facility?
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kjayhawks said:
Wow it looks like less than 5000 people are at the game
Per KU Sports (the PDF of game results), attendance was 21,050. Didn’t see the game. I was out and listening to it in the car.
I’m beginning to think the administration fears that fixing football will somehow harm the basketball program. Apparently, there is no way in this world to fix irrational fear.
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If this is the case, why would they be wanting to spend $250M to fix the stadium and football facilities?
I personally believe that if the team does not improve, KU will fall short of raising the money. The team should be fixed first and then the stadium.
If the team puts a quality product, the fans will come. They came when Mangino was winning and AFH, a 60+ year old facility which is substantially the same as when first built, sells out every game because a quality/winning product plays there.
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@JayHawkFanToo considering all fall sports would need the 1 indoor facility, the need is great. I’m sure the players enjoy the rare occasion to use it.
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Are we talking about the Anschutz Sports Pavilion or another facility? I would think that football is a the top of the pecking order when it comes to schedule indoor practice time and the football team does not usually make it past November anyway.
I am still curious why the team had to go to KC and where in KC it went?
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@JayHawkFanToo chiefs! Anchutz, to many sports teams to share-already said that.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 “Maryland and Rutgers were absolute door mats of programs when the B10 announced their additions to the league which were solely based on their locations.”
Adding doormats to get DC/Baltimore and New York Metro is not the same as adding a crawlspace vapor barrier in order to get KC.
I like your theory about upgrading the stadium. I see it as almost an emergency for the athletic dept (not for the university or state, however, so private funding only).
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@mayjay Big 10 added Nebraska to try and get into KC and it failed. Big 10 expansion has always been about adding new TV markets for their BTN. KC obviously isn’t the size of NY, DC, or Baltimore, but it’s still the biggest market left for the B10 in the midwest.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I heard when the B12 was about to implode a couple of years back that ISU, KU and KSU were headed to the B10.
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@kjayhawks It’s possible, but I don’t think the B10 has ever been interested in KSU because of their lack of AAU membership which Nebraska kept just long enough to get in. ISU has it, but I think they would be a last resort for the B10 because they don’t add any new TV markets.
At this point, when the next round of realignment happens and leagues go to 16 and above, I think KU, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech will be their top targets. The wildcard is going to be Texas because the B10 has had interest in UT for a long time going back to the early 90’s round of realignment when they added PSU.
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kjayhawks said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I heard when the B12 was about to implode a couple of years back that ISU, KU and KSU were headed to the B10.
There seem to be as many “I have heard” stories as there are people as to what “was” or “is” going to happen. So far, I am unaware of any evidence that virtually any of them have even a nugget of truth in them. They seem mostly just “made up” to advance someone’s hopes/dreams/fantasy/.
As to ISU being invited to the B10, it would seem duplicative to add ISU when Iowa is already in the B1G. Iowa being a small population state (though more people than Kansas), that hardly adds markets or anything else that doesn’t already exist with Iowa being the only member in the state. (Iowa & ISU play annually and have since 1977). ISU is an AAU school and does generally fit the B10 profile but would seem to otherwise lack a justification for membership.
KSU would seem to be a longer LONG shot. Every B1G school is AAU (Nebraska was when it joined but later "lost’ its membership). KSU is “not even close” to being AAU material (https://www.aau.edu/who-we-are/membership-policy). In fact, even KU is in the lower third of the organization for research money and there was a concern several years ago that KU’s continued membership was in doubt. KSU would not add any “new” markets to the B1G that KU wouldn’t add and in a state with a population as small as Kansas, there is no reason to have 2 schools (just as in Iowa).
As to KU, I realistically think that if KU was EVER offered membership in the B1G it would have taken it. Not only would the stability and prestige of the athletic conference have been a “step up” but the tremendous advantages offered by the CIC (now, Big 10 Academic Alliance) would have trumped any hesitancy to leave, especially during the B12 upheaval several years ago.
I have yet to have anyone provide any evidence that KU has EVER received an invitation (or ever will) from the B1G. Yes, I’m sure we’ve been “looked at” by the B1G as we somewhat fit their profile (AAU, new market, flagship university, etc.) but as to extending an invitation, I just don’t believe that it has happened. I REALLY HOPE that an invitation IS forthcoming upon the presumed imploding of the Big12 at the expiration of the GOR, but until some authoritative source can provide at least some evidence that it has or is happening, at least for me I’ll have to “see it to believe it”.
P.S. Sorry, I didn’t mean to “write a book”!
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@ICTJayhawk General consensus over the years is that KU and Missouri had open invitations in the early 90’s round of expansion to the Big 10.
During the last round of expansion, KU was generally considered to be team number 15 or 16 had the B10 expanded that much.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 So, I don’t mean to sound combative, but I don’t know how else to ask, so don’t take it personally. Here we go: general consensus among who? @ICTJayhawk asked for any source of that type of assertion. I have always thought it was a wish among fans to be invited, that over time aged into a regret at having turned it down, without the inconvenient intervening steps of an actual invitation or KU decision.
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@mayjay General consensus among the people who covered college athletics at the time that had access to inside information courtesy of people who worked in athletic departments. AD’s are not going to conduct business like that in public (unless it was Missouri’s AD), but they also can’t work in isolation either and there were absolutely people within KU’s athletic department back in 2010-2011 that knew what KU’s options were had the B12 imploded and that’s how tgese stories get out.
People can mock a site like TMZ all day long, but they are very good at what they do and very accurate for amount of info they publish because of their insiders. The LJW staff at the time (minus Keegan) have historically had a great relationship with KU and the athletic department so they are more likely to be updated and kept in the loop via people with direct knowledge of the situation than reporters who don’t have a great relationship with who they cover.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 A bit of googling has come up with several sources talking about KU and 4 other B12 schools approaching the Big 10 in 2010, and that the Big 10 was interested, but those talks never got anywhere because of revenue distribution issues, and no one thought it could occur in less than 3 to 4 years. All of the sources I found with that story based it on a 2015 article in the Omaha WorldHerald, whose reporter talked with an unnamed former Big 12 AD involved in the 2010 talks.
Luke Winn of SI discussed the fate of KU/KSU during the anticipated possible demise of the B12 with HCBS and Frank Martin (then of KSU), and they were urging a revitalized B12. No one suggested KU was pondering a B10 invite.
Finally, this from Keegan 2016: “One problem with fantasizing about joining the Big Ten: The conference never has shown any interest in welcoming Kansas and nothing suggests that ever will change.”
If the press corps from 2010 knew about the invitation you allege, I just cannot imagine how it never found its way to print, or how Keegan missed it so completely. Which is why I wonder if it was innuendo and rumor only.
It is possible that there are sources I easily could have missed, since this was only a perfunctory 5 page Google search. If so, I would love to see them because I really had never heard of KU turning down the B10.
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@mayjay I never said KU recieved an invitation to join the B10. I said in the 2010 realignment that KU was discussed as the 15th or 16th team in the B10 if they expanded that much. We know the B10 didn’t expand that much as they chose to go to 12 with Nebraska, and then 14 with Rutgers and Maryland shortly after that.
Also notice how Keegan is the one guy claiming no interest between either party. Every other source is saying there was at least discussions between both parties. Keegan was never the LJW writer to pay attention in regards to realignment, Tait was ways the one with the insider info and he had stories saying KU had discussions with both the B10 and P12 about Kansas joining during that time period.
It was also always reported that KU’s first option was to stay in the B12 if possible and that the Kansas Board of Regents may not have let KU and KSU split because more members had KSU ties than KU ties at the time.
I don’t think it’s very difficult to see where college football is headed at this point. Neither ESPN nor Fox had any interest in seeing the B12 expand which most likely means the B12 is going to be picked apart when the current TV expires in a few years. Getting rid of the B12 just makes too much sense for the networks in regards to simplifying the College Football Playoff. Get to 4 major conferences between 16 and 20 teams each, split each conference into two divisions of between 8-10 teams, expand the playoffs to 8 teams, have the quarterfinals be the conference championship games.
Fox has deals with both the B10 and P12 already so they would get the rights to those two conference title games and semifinal game between the B10 and P12 champs. ESPN gets the SEC and ACC title games and semifinal game between those champs and then ESPN and Fox alternate the national title game each year. The expansion to 8 teams and that set up doesn’t happen until the current CFP format expires.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Here is what you wrote that I have been trying to confirm: “When the Big 10 expanded in the early 90’s with Penn St., KU and Missouri were both very legitimate options at the time and had invitations, but both schools declined and chose to remain in the Big 8 and move with the rest of the league members into the Big 12.” (Emphasis added.)
Your statement (and another that there was a general consensus that KU had an “open invitation”) was about an invite in the 90s. I couldn’t find anything about that at all. My post referred to 2010 because of all the B12 angst back then, but again found only one source regarding actual talks, dating from 5 years later in 2015 by someone who claimed those talks occurred. No contemporary sources.
Finally, we all know there might be issues with Keegan, but again, it is quite a blanket statement to say on the one hand that all the other reporters covering KU knew about it and that Keegan alone was out in the cold. No one talks to him and they haven’t for decades? I think the LJW would cut him if they knew he had to make up everything.
Again, even one specific source would help here.
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@mayjay If you want details on KU and Missouri in early 90’s, it’s not hard to find them. The best I can tell you to look at would be an article from Sports Illustrated last fall about the oral history of the B12. The B10 was pretty down at that point and hadn’t won a national title in football since 1970 so staying with the B8 and going to the B12 where Nebraska and Colorado were two of the dominant programs in the country at that time and winning national titles at that time was the better athletics option. People were legitimately shocked at Penn St. joining the B10 then because they were title contenders at that point, but it only took a recruiting cycle for them to fade out of the title picture as well.
That article features quotes from many prominent figures directly involved in the formation of the B12. The most interesting thing in that article is that Stanford might have been the biggest reason why the B12 ever formed in the first place.
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I am on the side that believes all these alleged invitations are mostly wishful thinking. The talk a few years ago when the conference almost imploded was that Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas Universities were being considered by the PAC12 but states insisted that the kid brothers, i.e. Texas Tech., OSU and KSU needed to come along which put a stop to that version. Again, probably some truth to it but more likely an exaggeration of what actually went on.
I do remember the Governor of Missouri and I believe the AD as well publicly lobbying for an invitation to the Big10, which in turn started the Big 12 crisis, only to be rebuffed with the corresponding and embarrassing loss of face.
I personally believe 10 is the perfect number of members for a conference and the Big 12 seems to be doing very well financially.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Now you have done it. Penn State agreed to join the B10 in 1990, starting to play games in 1993?
So, I am thinking that I didn’t realize it was so recent! Wow, I thought!
But finally, I then realized 24 years is not, sigh, that recent after all.
So thanks for making me feel old.
