Big 12 Suspensions
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Yeah when Doke was on the bench it created a big problem. The unexpected foul trouble just made it even worse.
I will say that this was kind of the perfect storm of situations. I don’t know many teams that could prepare in 3-4 days to have guys guarding positions they normally don’t. Enaruna & Agbaji were in tough spots especially. Pons of Tennessee is an athletic freak and is a tough matchup for anyone. It didn’t look great without Doke on the floor he was a game changer on both ends. He’s become one of the most important and impactful players in all of College Basketball. He’s playing at an All American level
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Silent racism is the worst. All you want to know is who doesn’t like you so you know what is going on.
I’ve never like the word “racist” even though these people who fit the description are out there. I’d rather call it “blind hatred.” The result is hatred, whether very outgoing or subtle. Using the word “racist” just flames everything negatively because we have attached many definitions to the word and no one likes to be described down to a ‘t’.
Happy people don’t have time for hatred. Let’s all cure hatred in the world and almost every problem in the world will vanish. I don’t have time or energy to hate KKK people back. I feel sympathetic with these people for having a life often based on hatred. I hope and pray they find a way to be happy and love the world. Better for them, better for everyone!
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BeddieKU23 said:
Yeah when Doke was on the bench it created a big problem. The unexpected foul trouble just made it even worse.
I will say that this was kind of the perfect storm of situations. I don’t know many teams that could prepare in 3-4 days to have guys guarding positions they normally don’t. Enaruna & Agbaji were in tough spots especially. Pons of Tennessee is an athletic freak and is a tough matchup for anyone. It didn’t look great without Doke on the floor he was a game changer on both ends. He’s become one of the most important and impactful players in all of College Basketball. He’s playing at an All American level
Boy , he sure is. Mercy Doke just looks so much better , since sliming down & toned - just really looks a lot more athletic. Moves his feet better. I don’t remember him being that much of a rim protector before , gotta think he has to feel better also, better conditioned.
I’m a little worried about Enaruna , I’m sure it will work out. Yet even as raw as he was he looked better in the early going, now just looks totally lost, I’m sure it’s in his head now - - typical freshman, then I’m sure he is also another over thinkin kid trying to hard and worried about getting yanked , probably overwhelming - it will come. He has talent we know that, showed early on had some really smooth drives to the hole, yet it even looks like he has lost what little bit of shot he had - -just takes time. Just will be good to get McCormack back. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Yep its the best version of Doke we’ve seen at KU. He’s put in the work and seeing the fruits of his labor. This past weekends game was one of the few where foul trouble has been a concern for him this year. His feel on the defensive side (sliding feet, impacting shots without fouling has improved leaps and bounds) and its exciting to see. Hopefully tonight he can stay on the floor a bit more without foul concerns.
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@drgnslayr You are right that love over hate is the goal. Starting by giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming positive intent are also worthy aspirations. There are times though as Maya Angelou says, “when a person shows you who they are, believe them.” That’s kind of where I am with @HighEliteMajor at this point. At some point all that benefit of the doubt just becomes enabling or silent acceptance. That’s why I feel the need to call it out and call it racism whenever I see it. Racism is prejudice plus power. If we always give those in power the benefit of the doubt, those without power suffer.
It is really hard to respond to hate with love and definitely something we could all get better at.
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@benshawks08 Turning the other cheek become more difficult when they go for all four of them!
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@mayjay If I remember correctly a couple of mine were threatened not too long ago! Lol.
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@benshawks08 I have clearly said that the out of wedlock births are the most important factor. And yea, if it’s blacks we’re talking about, it would be black men and women. You have zero credibility when you mock this issue. But the left is big on that – mocking consideration of issues that threaten their narrative. Look at the idiots in Chicago in response to Rahm Emanuel. It was like a bomb went off. That’s not logic. It’s irrationality. That’s you. You are that.
Folks cry racism all the time. I’m well beyond being that concerned about that diluted word being thrown at me here. That’s fine. It’s easy to type, it’s easy to feel, but it avoids defeating arguments. If @mayjay or you, or anyone else defines my comments as racist, I’m good with that. I am clearly talking about things in racial terms. That’s fits the broad brush with most that cry racism. Similarly, when you or other folks discuss white privilege, or male privilege, that would be broad brush racist or sexist. I don’t care to really indulge that line of debate.
I was at a Christmas party a year + ago and a black woman was ranting about Trump. I had the temerity to suggest that many of us voted for him, not because we like him or his demeanor, but because we preferred his policies over Clinton. You would have thought I donned a KKK mask and jumped on horse. It was the spewing of irrational accusations and garbage that quite frankly is much akin to what you offer. It doesn’t matter to you and leftists. You cry racism and that’s the end of the discussion. You have no ability to debate a topic.
I know I hate seeing the murder, mayhem and violence. That’s what I hate. People dying. I know that doesn’t really occur in mass quantities in the suburbs or much in rural areas, even per capita as previously discussed. I do know that when I look at crime maps they tend to match up quite obviously with racial populations. I do know the violent crime stats. I do know reality. Don’t walk the street at 23rd and Prospect in KC. Feel free to walk the street at 103rd and Antioch in OP. That’s reality. I believe I’ve identified some very large reasons why. Of course, folks like you think that crime maps by race are racist, I’ve heard the arguments.
If you and your family are walking down the street at 43rd and Prospect and a group of black teens are following. Fear for your safety? If you and you’re family are at 103rd and Antioch in OP, walking down the street, and a group of white teens are following. Fear for your safety? Ground level. Reality. Undeniable. Of course, the first response is that one would never walk down the street at 43rd and Prospect with their family. Right.
The fact is each race, in large part, has its culture. It’s something that binds people. To ignore that it is to ignore facts. There is a perverted culture within the inner city black communities that is broken, it’s destructive, and at its core, causes mass death and destruction. The results are undeniable.
I pointed out another broken culture that was/is within the Catholic church and the assaults on young boys. Very similar discussion.
Without that diluted word “racism” holding folks back from an honest, all points discussion, my argument wins in a knockout. Based on this wide ranging debate, with all the shots taken, there is nothing that even caused swelling. But invoke the word racism and everything else goes out the window with some. It’s easier to worry about the word “racism” than challenge your thoughts and take the risk of offending.
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By the way, I’m done with this topic in the basketball section. Anyone that wants the final word feel free.
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@HighEliteMajor I’m with you. You can have it. Wait - dang it.
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@HighEliteMajor No one has argued that violent crime isn’t a problem. Nor have a “mocked this issue” whatever that means. There has been significant argument about what you’ve “identified” as “some very large reasons why.” Crime maps by race are not inherently racist but become that when a person uses it to argue that one race is better/worse than another. You either believe that all people are created equal or you don’t. You can declare my stance as lacking credibility but I’m comfortable with the problems I’ve pointed out in your “wins in a knockout” argument. You see, I am not proposing to have THE answer to violent crime because I don’t know everything about the statistics, the causes, or the people involved. It’s clear you’ve spent more time studying the issue than I have but that doesn’t make your conclusions correct. You can declare yourself the smartest person in the room and the winner of all arguments but you continue to refuse to reevaluate your own stance and accept the problems that many on here of pointed out.
Your little scenario gets directly at the problem with your argument. It seems you have a natural fear of black people and are comfortable attributing the actions of a few to an entire group of people. That prejudice tints your view of everything and closes you off to seeing things from another perspective. Perhaps try to “challenge your thoughts” and take the risk of admitting you could be wrong.
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@HighEliteMajor You assume too much. The only time I got mugged, it was on Belinder Road and 67th in Mission Hills by 2 white guys who went to Rockhurst.
Interestingly, it had racial overtones due to the 'fro I was wearing. They took objection to it.
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just saying friends I think he said he was done with the topic , think we just time to move along from this and find FUN things to talk about -OR whatever you want to go on - -then that’s up to you I guess , he surrendered lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Not to stir up this can of worms… but…
Am I the only one in here that is worried about what science will discover in the future concerning the human species?
What if science finds DNA markers that match certain specific generalizations often attributed to race? Especially negative generalizations.
What would we do as a society? Might we finally come to the realization that we have to accept each other, flaws and all, and work towards something positive?
At least I will sleep better knowing science can point to some good, too:
We can learn a lot from rats. I’m not talking about people we call “rats.” I’m talking about rats!
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_rats
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884117/
There is a lesson in this for all of us.
Peace all!
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@drgnslayr So far all the science points exactly to the opposite. Race doesn’t even really exist scientifically. It’s a social construct.
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Science is pesky like that.
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drgnslayr said:
Not to stir up this can of worms… but…
Am I the only one in here that is worried about what science will discover in the future concerning the human species?
What if science finds DNA markers that match certain specific generalizations often attributed to race? Especially negative generalizations.
What would we do as a society? Might we finally come to the realization that we have to accept each other, flaws and all, and work towards something positive?
At least I will sleep better knowing science can point to some good, too:
We can learn a lot from rats. I’m not talking about people we call “rats.” I’m talking about rats!
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/are_rats
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884117/
There is a lesson in this for all of us.
Peace all!
I think science already has a decent grasp of specific group differences. It’s widely accepted in the Ev Psych community that IQ has some genetic component and is highly heritable (most correlations are .5-.6). We also see certain groups have comparative advantage in certain things. For example Ashkenazi Jews are wildly overrepresented among Nobel laureates (20% of Nobel winners are Jews, but they’re less than .2% of the population).
So we know there’s something going on, but we really don’t know the mix between nature and nurture that leads to these differences. Is it possible that groups evolved slightly differently since they lived apart for so long? Sure, I guess. But we don’t know the magnitude of those changes, all we have is distributions of characteristics by race and how they overlap but can’t really explain why there are differences at the tails of each (Jews have a very fat right tail of the IQ distribution, blacks have a slightly larger left tail relative to Asians). The medians are all nearly indistinguishable.
So what do we do with this information? Basically nothing. We treat little Johnny or Sue with the dignity they deserve no matter how smart they are and give them the resources they need to succeed. Some groups will be overrepresented in certain occupations (e.g. men in construction) but if people are happy who cares? Some will run with it and day group differences should dictate policy but collectivism is dumb and intellectually lazy.
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Thank you for taking the time and energy to give a thoughtful response. Very good read and gave me things to think about.
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mayjay said:
@drgnslayr The coopting of the word “thug” was done by the racists who used it as a code, not by the people who recognized it as it was happening. Many of us have used it innocently throughout our lives, but not resorting to using it because of its inflammatory context is a small price to pay for avoiding misunderstandings.
Here in SC, I have heard defenses of “boy” meaning any black man, and people who claim the n-word can be used by whites in general conversation as a term of affection. And many whites here seem to think it is important to note that someone is black when race has nothing to do with anything in the conversation. (2 weeks ago a retired Army Lt Col I met: “We went to our grandson’s basketball game on Saturday. He always gets into the game but doesn’t really try to score. They were playing a team of black kids.”)
Racism is nowhere near going away. It does tend to be more subtle. But when it is more hidden, is it less dangerous–or more? And I agree hardly anyone wants to be called “racist”, but why would they? “By their fruits ye shall know them” goes to character as well as faith.
And somewhere a black man and or woman might have been talking about the very same game that the Lt. Col’s grandson was in while saying, “we were playing a team of white kids.” Does that make him, her or both racist? Thug is a word that has a specific meaning - in general, not a big fan of policing a word just because someone has decided to co-opt it. I am also not big into thought-policing, find it to be very dangerous. Why? Because it means that a person wants to hear only one viewpoint or opinion.
I am going to invent a new product called OverSensitime, that way the entire nation can be given an enema and be able to get all of this shit out of their system.
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@Marco No word has a “very specific meaning.” Language is about a combination of denotation and connotation. Both are constantly in flux as languages blend and meld, grow and die. Don’t think anyone is saying don’t use this word or that but are instead making sure people understand the different connotations a word might have. Hate speech is still protected speech in America but that doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want without consequences. The words we use show who we are, especially on the internet where things like nonverbal indicators and tone of voice are wholly absent.
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benshawks08 said:
@Marco No word has a “very specific meaning.” Language is about a combination of denotation and connotation. Both are constantly in flux as languages blend and meld, grow and die. Don’t think anyone is saying don’t use this word or that but are instead making sure people understand the different connotations a word might have. Hate speech is still protected speech in America but that doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want without consequences. The words we use show who we are, especially on the internet where things like nonverbal indicators and tone of voice are wholly
I did not say very specific meaning, but yeah it’s meaning is pretty very specific.
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@Marco Guess that’s what I get for trying to post at 2:30 in the morning! Sorry for misquoting you. Did you edit your post or was I dreaming that it said something different the last time I read it? Again, it was 2:30 so that is possible I was!
And no, it’s not specific at all. It’s quite muddy and vague at this point.
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This led me to look it up. Very interesting (from Google):
“a member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. Devotees of the goddess Kali, the Thugs waylaid and strangled their victims, usually travelers, in a ritually prescribed manner. They were suppressed by the British in the 1830s.”
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@mayjay Yep. That seems to be the exact definition people use it for today. Hasn’t changed a bit!
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Ralphie May’s take - no word is the problem, it’s the venom behind them.
More of the same, then makes his defense for Kobe. Funny, but crude.
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Interesting perspective to overuse words to eventually strip them of their power.
Not sure about that. And that may work for youth. Not sure it will work for elders.
I’m thinking of the n-word and I’m thinking of some elder people in the south who were often threatened or beaten while being called that word out of hatred. Is it realistic for them to learn to stop cringing if they hear that word overused? I have my doubts.
I don’t think words are all the same or should be treated the same. I don’t think thug is equal to the n-word. Thug doesn’t have the history here in America like the n-word has.
I know a lot of black people that never gave young black people a thumbs up on using the n-word, even when they changed the word by adding an “a” to it.
Certain words, like the n-word, have too much negative history associated with it. People were beaten and killed within the context of that word. Thug is just a word that has been hijacked recently by many.
Just my opinion.
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I HATE the N word. Now have to tell you some experiences I used to have.
When I used to live in Wichita and I would go play ball at the park, usually was like me and maybe one or two other white be there playing and the rest Blacks.
Always got a kick out of this we would all be playing and one black would be hot dogging and then like drive to the hole and another ol boy raise up and slap the hell out of and start talking all kinds of smack - things like get that S- - - out of here N - - - - - . sorry you have to fill in the blanks. They use to call one another that ALL DAY, as much as I hate the word was kind of funny listening to them talk their smack to one another. - The would call one another that al the time.
Now it was fine for them to do that , BUT let me tell you If you were a White or anyone else ummmm you better not be saying anything like that , you best be remembering where you at and who your with lol.
Sorry I apologize I realize that really isn’t what your all discussing as much - - but just thinking and relate, myself I really have a huge dis like for the N word. Got several black friends - to me that word is just total dis respect. - -Anyways ok i’m out. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@drgnslayr Not a word I use. To me the more salient point is that words are just air, it’s the intent behind them that’s important. More on point - it’s silly that other word/symbols get hi-jacked like rainbow in his other skit.
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I’m just not into calling people names with bad intent. If I did I would feel pathetic for not being smart enough to communicate more effectively. I don’t think hate is any kind of vehicle I want to ride in.
Peace all!
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Sounds familiar to my playground days except I may not have been as pale as you.
I got so tired of hearing that word. It wore me out. And it convinced me that when some of the black culture accepted using that word it was like they chose to carry bags of sand on their heads. It’s excess baggage.
I knew a lot of people on that court and I can’t think of many (any) that ever made much of a quality of life for themselves.
I compare that to black friends that never accepted that word as part of their vocabulary and they had more successful lives.
Someone trained at the right background would better comment about this. I can only share what I experienced… but it seemed like anyone who uses that word regularly carries the heavy weight behind it and life is tough carrying all that weight.
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@drgnslayr If you use the N word regardless of your race I consider you uneducated and simple minded. It’s insanely stupid, I feel the same way about the B word. A bunch of girls walk into a bar calling each other B****, it’s all laughs. Until someone else from the bar calls one of them that name, then there is a fight. Same story with a bunch of guys saying the N word.
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I can’t think of any words that I’m so attached to that I can’t just let them go. (Maybe the F word). There are hundreds of phrases and rhymes that a lot of us learned as kids that were racist, anti-semitic, anti-native, misogynistic etc. Harmless stuff, right? Sure. That fucking tomahawk chop and chant for the Chiefs. Ugh. Ten years from now we’ll all (hopefully) be blushingly embarrassed about that. It’s culturally ignorant. It’s just dumb white stupid. Some of us never thought about language until we got out of our little enclaves, got older, met people, learned some stuff, and realized that rhetoric could be inherently toxic. Some of us never got out of it.
Privileged white people (GUYs especially) don’t have to think about words. That’s why being called out as being a racist is such an confrontational insult…whoa, me? I don’t care about race. Sure. You never had to. Don’t beat yourselves up, cupcakes, about not using “THUGS” to describe black basketball players… Good grief. Let the words go. It’s really the absolute least we can do.
End of a rare rant for me. Peace. Go Chefs.
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“Go Chefs?”
I like that! We can all wear chef’s toques to games and we can up the tailgate parties to sophisticated yummies and wine instead of beer!
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Someone needs a snickers
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benshawks08 said:
@Marco Guess that’s what I get for trying to post at 2:30 in the morning! Sorry for misquoting you. Did you edit your post or was I dreaming that it said something different the last time I read it? Again, it was 2:30 so that is possible I was!
And no, it’s not specific at all. It’s quite muddy and vague at this point.
No, I didn’t edit it. But guess what? We’re good. I was just offering an opinion, as were you.
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mayjay said:
This led me to look it up. Very interesting (from Google):
“a member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. Devotees of the goddess Kali, the Thugs waylaid and strangled their victims, usually travelers, in a ritually prescribed manner. They were suppressed by the British in the 1830s.”
Lol! How dare you get all technical on us!
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kjayhawks said:
@drgnslayr If you use the N word regardless of your race I consider you uneducated and simple minded. It’s insanely stupid, I feel the same way about the B word. A bunch of girls walk into a bar calling each other B****, it’s all laughs. Until someone else from the bar calls one of them that name, then there is a fight. Same story with a bunch of guys saying the N word.
Agree on all counts. How much do you want to bet that women who refer to themselves as bitches also treat themselves and are treated by others as such?
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What in flippin flip is going on with Wisconsin? Kobe King quits the team, Davidson a low blow puncher and suspension. Seems like Gard on hot water. What ya say??
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Marco said:
mayjay said:
This led me to look it up. Very interesting (from Google):
“a member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. Devotees of the goddess Kali, the Thugs waylaid and strangled their victims, usually travelers, in a ritually prescribed manner. They were suppressed by the British in the 1830s.”
Lol! How dare you get all technical on us!
Actually, I found it interesting due to what must be thousands of novels written for mass-market publishing and Kindle that are based on secretive cabals and religious assassination squads. Like the Da Vinci Code. I thought these were all “pigments” of writers’ “colorful” imaginations!
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@BeddieKU23 Yeah, the team is in dissaray a bit. There’s discontent on the message boards with Gard. King proves there’s some discontent on the team with him. Rod Strickland’s son left last season after 1 unproductive season and blamed Gard.
Like KU, Wisconsin has played one of the top schedules in the country, last I looked UW was #1 SOS and KU #3. That’s taken a beating on the team.
Davison is one of my favorite players on the team and I’ve always bristled at the criticism towards him. The thing the other night may or may not have been dirty. I guess when you’re hand goes there, and i’m not sure why it did, people are going to assume the worst, and that’s fair I guess in this case. He’s an indespensible player on the Badgers. With the Badgers SOS, they should make the tourney with about 6-7 more wins. UW is through the most difficult stretch of their schedule after MSU tomorrow. So it’s doable, but probably not the year for a deep tourney run.
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I was seeing this wasn’t Davidson’s first suspension for the same issue, I believe it happened last year as well. Not a good trend to be setting and in this latest one it was Iowa’s Coaches son. Yikes.
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@BeddieKU23 Not remembering he was suspended for the first one. That one was interpreted by some as a two childhood friends messing around on the court, which apparently he and the Hauser kid were. Of course that incident was a costly one in that game against Marquette.
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Bizarre, players now bite.
In the last two weeks we’ve seen a brawl, a player stepped on his chest, a low blow and now a biting incident.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Bizarre, players now bite.
In the last two weeks we’ve seen a brawl, a player stepped on his chest, a low blow and now a biting incident.
Ya and that’s what we call COLLEGE Basketball ?
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@BeddieKU23 Kid is literally hungry for victory.
