Self's Short Stack vs Shaka's Invincible Horns Game Thread
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@nwhawkfan serious?
Only slightly exaggerating. Out next two games are vs. Tech at home and KSU at Bramlage. I could see this team going on a losing streak. I’m not seeing a whole lot of confidence on the court.
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Oh don’t even trip - - -there is more to come , say Saturday – then @K-State the fun is just beginning.
These teams have waited for this for soooo long - - screw them all
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Go Vandy.
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Hawk8086 said:
Well, #15 is going to be really difficult now…
Difficult? The only thing about 15 is about where we drop after this nasty loss
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kjayhawks said:
Wow the refs had no bearing but that was a terribly officiated game
Disagree…when nothing is being called for 3/4 of the game and it begins to affect how you play - case in point - Lightfoot holding ground and called for a foul and next time out, doesn’t belly up as firm and they score over him…that makes a difference
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Crap did Adidas check to the refs bounce? Lol. Nike’s sure didn’t.
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Let’s see, Ochai led in points and rebounds. Dotson’s A/TO ratio is 4:1. Our future looks bright.
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dylans said:
Crap did Adidas check to the refs bounce? Lol. Nike’s sure didn’t.
2 games in a row
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That last call was hilarious!
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The 2 guys were slow dancing
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Weirdly, the stats don’t show how bad we sucked.
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What a game. I left work early and rushed home. Should have just gone to Chick-fil-A.
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@DanR difference looked like the 3 ball
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Let me ask this again - - IN Big 12 play - -how long have we lead toal in these games. – These other schools are just eating this up to see us this bad – STILL hard for me to believe that one guy can make that much of a difference.
We was behind for right at 38 minutes out of 40 - -just insane. - -My belief - -not so much about missing ONE player - -my belief ? - thanks for asking - -My belief is a very inconsistent Vick - -an absent Vick - - - -A very under achieving Quentin Grimes - - a - player that is NO THREAT from the outside - - tell me please how many here thought would we would be seeing Marcus getting these kind of Minutes - - -The NCAA still screwing us for the entire season with Silvio - - Silvio is the victim here - -Punish the guardian – NOT Silvio - - - Then Doke DID get hurt - -these things - - -these are the reason - -NOT cause ONE player gets hurt - -
THIS is what these other schools have been waiting for – hope they enjoy – it isn’t gonna stay this way long. - - - -Grimes comes back - - -Doke may come back - - -Obaji - will be here - - - -Dotson will be here - -possibly be here - - - Precious may be here - -who knows - - enjoy this while you can BOTTOM FEEDERS - - ENJOY INDEED - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 We led 0.4% of the time tonight.
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Agree. Inconsistent Vick, Q not performing like projected, Doke hurt. That adds up to, overall, not as good a team as we thought. i’m not even counting SDS, because I didn’t really think he was ever in the picture.
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Coach just said - just have to play with what we got - - said NOT EVEN A SNIFF - -from the NCAA about Silvio
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Self had a great post game interview, I thought
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I had to miss the game - looks like that was a blessing? Scored 63 points against a team that gave up 98!!! to a lousy Georgia team 3 days ago. Similar to losing to a WVU team that had lost by 31 the game before they played us and by 19 at home the next game. Is it too much to say the bottom has fallen out? The old saying is that it is always darkest before the dawn, but dawn seems a very distant glimmer right now…
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@jayballer73 we are kansas not an east coast school we all maybe dead before SDS gets any ruling. Doke would’ve made a huge difference tonight and the other 2 loses recently. He is shooting over 80% inside 2 foot, having a big guy to get a bucket in defensive battle is huge, not to mention he would’ve altered and probably fouled on several opposing teams easy shots at the rim.
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Don’t have a leader, like Graham. Don’t have a shooter. Don’t have a rim protector. Still pretty good on defense. I’m impressed we didn’t lose that game by more.
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I suppose doke really was the pulse of the team. Since Michigan st it’s been a slow but gradual decline. Self isnt getting what he wants from this bunch. This is not what we expected. We expected improvement as we always see. We are seeing regression. Oh well. It’s up to the guys to find pride and their will to win at this point.
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wissox said:
I’ve got to go, not sure if I’ll watch the recording when I get back.
So I got back and this is what I saw. Putrid offense combined with unbelievably bad officiating and some defensive lapses leads to an ugly defeat.
How do refs not call a foul on a team for about 25 minutes of clock time? Seriously, I know we can blame ourselves, but I put this one on officials. Texas was causing so many turnovers by fouling. Reaching right in and fouling. I’m not even positive we win if it was evenly called, but I sure would have liked to have seen us have a chance.
And of course I blame the NCAA who treat us and Duke unfairly. We lose questionable players every year, Duke doesn’t with similar questions, and then everyone fawns all over Duke how great they are. We’ve been pretty good for a long time thanks to Self, but it’s hard to compete with the elite.
Rant over, looking forward to the next action whenever that is.
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Just for fun, I can think of a few worse games. We got totally owned at OSU in the mid 90’s. It was about a 30 point beatdown.
Loss to Northern Iowa. We were horrible that game. One of the few KU games I ever turned off.
The game at WVU where Wiggins scored 40 something. Awful beatdown.
The Kentucky loss in the 1st game of the year a few years ago. Big stage, embarrassing result.
I don’t think tonight came close to any of those. Like I said above, a fairer called game and we have a chance despite our lousy play.
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Oh boy. That wasn’t pretty. Just finished the DVRd game.
Man, this may be the hardest KU team to watch play that I can recall in the history of my fandom.
It’s like pulling teeth just to get a shot off sometimes. My negative view of the game:
— Why is Vick so completely out of control every time he dribbles? It’s like he’s a merry go round trying to hold onto the ball as it spins.
— Ochai played hard. His future is bright. Tough. Hoping his handle improves over time. Nice southpaw flush!
— The few times Vick hasn’t started it hasn’t gone well for him.
— some interesting whistles.
— I can’t recall a game where it’s been so difficult to get a shot off. Texas ain’t that good.
— Did Grimes play?
— For apparently the best big man passer in the history of the game, Dedrick sure couldn’t pass out of a double team.
— God I hate all of Vick’s game except spot up shooting.
— Still love me some Dotson. I wish he’d find a midrange game and shoot the ball once in a while.
— Our lack of playable size kills us a lot of the time. Or is it that we should blame Self for not developing Big Dave and Mitch?
— Did I mention Vick’s lack of defensive ability? Or is it lack of intelligence to play D?
— I guess if coach thought he’d have Dok and Silvio all year, no need to bring the other bigs along too fast.
— KJ enters the game. Whistle. Turnover. Perplexed look on his face.
— man. This team. I guess they aren’t frustrating because at this point I don’t expect a road win.
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I do not understand this comment from Self.
We’re just going to have to grind, lean on each other, hopefully get a little bit better in certain situations, but also, we’ve got the team that we’ve got. We’re not very big. …
UM you have a near 7 footer who plays 6 minutes a game. Play him, not an excuse to say your not big. They could have invested the time in Dave like they have Ogbaji but they haven’t.
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@BeddieKU23 One path that is arguably reasonable is to play conventional, McCormack, Dedric, Vick, Agbagi, and Dotson. But then we have Lightfoot off the bench to stay that way. That’s the only explanation for his comment. That Lightfoot isn’t an answer.
I personally think that an emphasis on creating looks for your best players is the only real option here. And Self doesn’t do that much. The best players - Dedric, Agbaji, Dotson, and then Vick at the arc.
This is the time, now, for the scripted play. For the designed look. For extreme micromanagement from the bench. The free flow of offense isn’t cutting it.
It is interesting how, now, I think we’re seeing what I (and others) had mentioned as a concern about Garrett. This does not impugn his abilities as a player. We all appreciate those. But this is reality we’re talking about. This team can’t afford that black hole offensively. We are challenged on that end of the court. Two points in 26 minutes. And it is clear that not only UK adjusted to him, Texas did too. It’s easy to see the defensive approach. He’ll still get to the rim at times, of course. But this will continue to be a struggle for this team unless Garrett can get to the rim consistently somehow.
Back to the point – we have to get the ball to our best players AND create ways for them to score. That’s a solid option, I think, given what we’ve seen.
Agbaji showed signs of embracing the idea of being “the man.” I hope Self embraces it. Seeing Dedric shoot a 25 foot three at a critical spot is not the answer. Get the ball to “the man” and help create his look.
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@HighEliteMajor even very loosely scripted plays like “pick and roll with Dedric and Dotson at 15 seconds” would be fine with me. I think it would help the young guys figure out exactly what the goal shot is and automatically give it a pecking order. Instead of having 4 guys not even looking to shoot and just feed Dedric.
Like In this scenario, it is very clearly, first Dotson drives, if he gets cut off, pass it to Dedric. If Dedric gets doubled, whoever the double team game from gets the ball and takes the shot. And that’s it. No fourth or fifth option. Catch it to shoot confidently. Everyone else crash the boards.
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Bill is having similar trouble that I have had: after several years of returning summer help I had all new guys. While Bill has some returning guys his leaders are all gone. It’s much easier to have someone who knows the system in and out to lead by example. It’s a pain to teach the noobs EVERYTHING. You forget how little they actually know after having experienced guys. And to top it all off everyone has a different learning curve and different ways to reach them. It’s truly a struggle to teach. I have great respect for the handful of good educators out there (present company included @wissox @Crimsonorblue22).
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@CaliJay He got bludgeoned by a few on here, and left.
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@dylans Bill did say last week that he should have done more teaching early this season, with all the new guys.
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It’s easy to forget what everything is. The little stuff that you’d think a college student would know. For me it’s spelling and handwriting before we can even get to the actual work. For Bill it’s fundamentals he also shouldn’t have to be teaching at this point.
Bill’s been running a 400 level class. Now he has to dumb it down to a 100-200 level class, but he’s stuck in a master class level in his head.
I’m afraid this team is a year and a piece or two away from being really good with the current roster and learning curve.
