Knocking Off 'Nova
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kjayhawks said:
I’ll be honest I find myself wishing Sam had stayed and Moore left.
Hell no.
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Bill self is aging better than jay wrong
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@HawkChamp Which statements are silly? Q and Charlie? Or this team is not as good? I just do not believe this team is as good as last years. We lost three terrific shooters, two of which were senior leaders. We have none of that kind of fire power now, except for Vick going off occasionally. DLawson is trying to fill the gap lately. Just my opinion.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I’ve been to one postseason game, in the Superdome 2012! Wish we could have pulled that one off of course.
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@wissox that’s where my avi came from
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@Big-Clyde52 Another way to look at it is how may pros were on the team last year vs. this. We lost 2 NBA players and 1 2nd tier pro. Replaced with maybe 1 2nd tier pro and a couple guys who are just not very good basketball players. Moore is slow, small, and makes bad decisions. Grimes may be Sean Pearson 2.0. Dedric is a terrific college player who will play overseas.
We are very overrated at this stage. However, don’t forget how much progress we usually make over Christmas break. The genius will be going into his laboratory in just a few days and his track record proves he will come out with some new weird science that results in hoops greatness.
But overall I agree, we just dont have nearly as talented players this year.
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@Fightsongwriter looking at it that way doesn’t matter as much, really. College and the pros are two different games. Plus, it’s amazing how much of a different tune folks are singing in hindsight, when early on everyone was saying there was NO CHANCE last years team could anything they accomplished. The overreactions in December are rearing their ugly head once again, and we’ve already beat four ranked teams and are 9-0 for the first time since 2010-2011 season.
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@Big-Clyde52 Oh yeah…we’re doing terrible. Woe is us…
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@KUSTEVE No one said we are doing terrible. Hell we are 9-0. That sure isn’t terrible. But what would our record be without several career games by Vick? Or a couple by DLawson? Just worried that if one or both have an off night, who is going to step up?
My hope is that they both keep playing well along with Devon, and Doke gets back 100%. Then if Q can get it going during conference, we should have a very successful season. A miracle would be to add SDS in the second half. Fingers crossed.
If we can get by ASU, we may enter the Big 12 undefeated. I worry that a lot of people are underestimating our conference. KSU took a possible blow last night, but Baylor showed what they can do. Hope I am wrong, but think it will be a grind. My opinion only.
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These are normal games for Dedric actually he is amazing.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich - during the last “consultation” Villanova took during a KU free throw attempt, the look on the ref’s face was quite stern. He was almost angry but didn’t assess a technical against Villanova. Too bad.
@jayballer73 - you Know Mahomes will be in Lawrence for the TTU game. Any guesses on the colors he wears? Or will he go straight for Chiefs colors?
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Wright deserved a tech imo.
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Gorilla72 said:
@KirkIsMyHinrich - during the last “consultation” Villanova took during a KU free throw attempt, the look on the ref’s face was quite stern. He was almost angry but didn’t assess a technical against Villanova. Too bad.
@jayballer73 - you Know Mahomes will be in Lawrence for the TTU game. Any guesses on the colors he wears? Or will he go straight for Chiefs colors?
ohhhh that’s a very interesting question - – lol - - - maybe he will just opt for something neutral - - like you said quite possibly Chiefs - -cause ya - -he will for sure be there for that game. - - -ROCK CHALK AL DAY LONG BABY
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Yesterday we had our early Christmas party for those that will be away for the actual Christmas party so I was able to watch most of the game while welcoming guests but unable to post during the game.
Here are some of my observations…
First, the sky is not falling. KU is doing well and progressing slowly but surely. It is easy to win the big blowouts but its is harder to win the close ones and KU had done it while playing the toughest schedule of any top 25 team and is still unbeaten…while KU keeps on winning…
Only 2 returning players with significant experience and trying to merge 4 new players is not always easy, particularly when your top big is out and the second big is in limbo and unable to play…while KU keeps on winning…
We all though, particularly after the Michigan State game, that Grimes would be the best player in the team and after that game he practically disappeared and the hope is that he will reappear with a bang…while KU keeps on winning…
Dedric has merged nicely and is playing like we thought he could, Dotson has probably exceeded expectations and Marcus is stud on defense. On the other hand, K.J., Moore and Grimes and to an extent Big Dave have yet to fully integrate with the team…while KU keeps on winning…
The defense has also gotten better. in the last 6 games opponents shot: Marquette 41.7% and 45.2%, Tennessee 41.3% and 25.9%, Stanford 44.4% and 35.3%, Wofford 26.2% and 19.2%, New Mexico State 45.5% and 26.9% and Villanova 40.7% and 28.6%. It is obvious that KU is still a work in progress with Coach Self trying to find the optimal lineups for the various opponents with varying degrees of success…while KU keeps on winning…
KU is mostly playing now at what I would consider 60%-70% of potential and, while I don’t expect them to ever get to 100% which no team ever does except for short spurts, when they get to the 80%-90% the team will be extremely good…while KU keeps on winning…
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks like many KU players are passing up shots to feed Dedrick and LaGerald. It’s not showing up as an assist but the ball is consistently moved until those two get a touch…
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@Gorilla72 I think you are right, they have said that too. Feed the hot hand. D Lawson was scoring at will and Vick was the hot hand.
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@JayHawkFanToo I really liked Self’s halftime talk about the initial half-court defense being really good, and that Nova only really hit their threes off of rebounds and kickouts. It’s very exciting to see us defend the 3 well. We do seem to be rotating a lot better.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@bskeet I’ve never been to a post season game.
Hmm… this could explain some things!
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Big Clyde52 said:
@ I just do not believe this team is as good as last years. We lost three terrific shooters, two of which were senior leaders. We have none of that kind of fire power now, except for Vick going off occasionally. DLawson is trying to fill the gap lately. Just my opinion.
I feel the urge to agree. However, I have to catch myself and try to consider how to make a fair assessment. Here are some things I think are influencing my evaluation:
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Last year’s team had Silvio and Doke. They are still on this team, but neither is playing. If they play, the team would be better. If/when they do, both have a year more experience than last year.
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I am using current data against the team that finished strong with a conference and regional final championship. It’s still just December. Trying to remember how the team was last year about this time. We were relying pretty heavily on Graham and Svi. Newman was a non-factor until conference, IIRC.
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The vacancies were filled by less experienced players, but with ceilings as high or possibly higher. Dotson is not Graham, but seems to have found a groove already. His performance as a freshmen has been impressive, but no where near as potent offensively as Graham.
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Vick is much more lethal than last year, shooting better than anyone I can recall since Terry Brown and Ron Kellogg. Not sure if he completely fill’s Svi’s shoes as a slasher, and certainly not as a defender, but there is room for improvement. Vick’s athleticism continues to amaze. That bodes well for some moment in the future when he decides to play lock-down defense.
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DLawson is unlike anyone we had last year.
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Garrett and Lightfoot are a year older and both seem improved.
This team is less experienced as a group, less consistent and not as strong defensively as the team last year. And it’s short-handed.
But the deficiencies are things that could be resolved through the season and, in almost every category, we could be better.
So we’re not yet better, but this team could be better than a final four team, and that’s encouraging to me.
Short version: glass is half full.
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@bskeet I think we’re light years ahead of last year’s defense, and light years behind the offense. Our game with Arizona St should give us a more accurate idea how much progress we’ve made on defense. Last year, they blew us off the court. Getting offense from 2 1/2 guys is certainly not optimal, and it’s a bail out from our offense not working like it should. At least when Doke gets back, that will give us another option. I think Dotson has to assert himself a lot more for us to get where we want to go. He had that little stretch in the last few minutes of the Nova game where he just took over for a couple plays- the dude was total clutch. We have to get that type of performance from him the whole game. This dude should initiate alot more offense. Drive, drive, drive. We’ve got a mini-Frank, but he’s taking mini-me shots. Turn it up, DD.
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It’s still very early. A lot of growth left. Last seasons team was worse at this point in the season. It took growth from Newman and De Sousa to turn us into a FF team.
This year we are no different. It will take improvement from several players to make this season special.
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Last Years team wasn’t anywhere near this good defensively, I went to the Arizona State game unfortunately and witnessed my first loss in AFH. As stated it was all on Graham and Svi much of the season with Vick being good at times and Newman really just hanging out til march rolled around. Maybe Grimes can be this years Newman? Grimes has more of an excuse than Newman being a freshman but him progressing will be a huge factor in how far we can grow as a team. I feel like Dotson is playing great ball at this point of the season, Grimes has been a complete ghost outside of 2 games. Doke being back will help on the defensive side of the ball just because opposing teams know he’ll be waiting in paint for them, even if he fouls them lmao. We have a tough schedule and keep winning games so its hard to get real frustrated at this point. I will this team is stating to remind me of the 05 team that started out 20-1, then limped to a first exit (W/O Langford albeit).
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@kjayhawks I’m of the opinion that when Doke gets back, Marcus starts, and Grimes goes to the bench. Dotson/Marcus/Vick/Dedric/Doke. This is 2012 all over again, imo… A salty defensive team that has a knack for winning close games. That 2012 team just amazed us, as they looked butt ugly most of the time, but they would find a way to win.
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@KUSTEVE I don’t think he’ll take grimes confidence away by not starting him.
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@KUSTEVE That maybe the best thing to do but as @Crimsonorblue22 Says that may kill Grimes confidence, but he can’t keep starting all year if it doesn’t pay.
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@KUSTEVE The 2012 team didn’t have near the depth that this season’s team does. Self only played Teahan and Young off the bench basically, and Young only averaged 11 minutes per game. Dedric has kind of been like our Thomas Robinson, though, in terms of numbers and how much we rely on him. Dedric’s numbers are probably a little bit better than Robinson’s were.
I’d rather keep Grimes in the starting lineup; I want Self to play Grimes through his mistakes and growing pains early. I know it kind of sucks now, but it could pay dividends in March.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich I think that is exactly what Self is doing, letting him play tho he isn’t playing well and thinking he will progress and wake the heck up one of these days.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I think the confidence ship has already sailed by the look on Grime’s face in the Nova game, combined with the 14 minutes on the court.
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Dotson looks right on schedule. Hopefully Grimes catches up when Vick starts dropping off due to more defensive recognition.
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I think Self will keep starting Grimes in hopes that things will consistently click for him. Who knows where his confidence actually is.
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Yeah I think Self should continue to start Grimes as well at least through these last few non-conference games. If he hasn’t made strides by the time Doke returns then I see the value in sticking with Garrett. At that point your choosing which guys can win you games, especially in conference.
Not much has gone right for him though. The refs have it out for him on his drives and he’s made some other poor decisions and because the games have been close Self goes with whoever isn’t making mistakes.
