Poor Silvio
-
Dunno if y’all saw the article, but I’d like to see more coaches calling out the NCAA to complete their review sooner…
-
@Gorilla72 Seems like Few implies his displeasure with programs that don’t do it the right way, and wants those folks sanctioned promptly. Can’t argue there.
-
My theory is along the same lines. The NCAA doesn’t want to start digging in until the season ends because digging in right now is BAD for business.
Also, I think KU is appealing the NCAA’s decision to hold off on any decisions including Silvio’s eligibility. The lack of movement at this point seems to make sense that KU is appealing.
-
In our system of justice the presumption of innocence is and has always been the cornerstone; however, the NCAA operates differently because applicants are trying to “earn” a privilege in the same way that to earn the right to drive on public streets you have to prove that you are of certain age and that you can drive by taking written and driving tests. You earn that right by providing the information required and f you don’t, you do not earn the privilege. Information required includes academic transcripts with the minimum requirements and proof of amateur status which normally involves a sworn document.
When the NCAA receives credible information that contradicts that submitted by the applicant it has an implied obligation to investigate and request additional information in order to keep a level playing field for all members. At this time the onus transfers to the applicant to provide the requested information since the NCAA has no authority to legally compel the applicant to do it and until such time there is not much the NCAA can do but wait.
I understand the process might seem unfair to the student athlete but would it be better to waive requirements for a few elite individuals when the rest have to follow the well established rules? I think not.
If I were a betting man I would guess the process is stalled by lack of cooperation from Falmagne who could easily clear up any misunderstanding or provide the required information. In a perfect world, after a certain time the NCAA should be able to issue a report indicating what information is needed to complete the process but I will guess that it is not allowed to do so and so we continue to wait and especulate…
-
@BeddieKU23 - I, too, hope KU is appealing any delay in Silvio’s case. We all want him to play! But what makes you think KU is appealing the issue, besides HCBS comments?
-
Just my best guess/assumption really. The NCAA’s announced they would not look into programs from the first trial (KU included) until after the season. I’m guessing that also means Silvio’s case is on the backburner as well. If that’s true I’d assume KU has appealed for a decision in his case because he’s been held out. I have no idea if I’m right but it’s my working theory at the moment.
-
KU seems to be in the proverbial…between a rock and a hard place. It cannot play Silvio if there is any chance he would be declared ineligible and risk forfeiting games. On the other hand, KU is footing all the bills to educate, house and train Silvio with zero game time reward to date.
Contrary to the thread title, Silvio is doing well. All his expenses are being covered and he is getting a free education and access to the best trainers and top practice competition to hone his skill to the next level with zero game responsibility. I understand that he may or may not be guilty of the alleged violation but considering the situation, the deal he is getting at KU is not too shabby.
-
@JayHawkFanToo bet he’s just thrilled
-
JayHawkFanToo said:
It cannot play Silvio if there is any chance he would be declared ineligible and risk forfeiting games.
Why not? Isn’t Duke doing that with Zion? Didn’t AZ do that with Ayton?
To me…either the ship takes everyone down with them including KU (which would be an NCAA nightmare because it would include Duke) because ‘everyone recruits like this’…or it takes no one. Playing SDS then becomes a situation where he and KU get in trouble along with everyone else because they played an ineligible player last year and then chose to again this season…or no one gets in trouble and KU sat SDS for nothing.
I say roll the dice and play him. #FREESILVIO
-
@focojayhawk This has come up so many times.
There was no testimony, allowed or even just offered but rejected by the judge, stating that Zion or his family took money–only a disallowed hearsay statement allegedly made by Kurtis Townsend that the family was after a big payoff, and nothing about Duke at all. In contrast, there was direct testimony that Silvio’s guardian was involved in (I believe) 3 cash transactions, 1 involving attending KU, that would implicate Silvio’s eligibility.
Maybe more importantly, the NCAA apparently has notified KU of questions. Playing SDS would be direct and intentional disregard, providing cause for severe institutional sanctions instead of just a player ineligibility determination. Nothing in the trial was strong enough to do a comparable notice to Duke. So playing Zion can be done without directly flipping the bird at the NCAA.
-
@mayjay This goes to one approach I think KU could have taken. It would have required a different approach by Self. KU to the NCAA – Look, if you want to burn us, fine. Do it. But we will burn the place down. We know where the bodies are buried. We know who got paid – from Duke, UNC, AZ, everywhere. Let some assistant AD be the formal whistleblower. And burn it down. Or, alternatively, the NCAA can issue a statement acknowledging widespread corruption, dishing out nominal penalties, and implementing new, stricter standards.
Heck, Self could have been the white knight. The man who blew the whistle and forced change. But he is not aware … (clearing my throat) … of any … you know … third party inducements. The “I dare you to prove it” approach.
Do you think that Townsend doesn’t know what Zion got? Sure he does. Self knows. KT was wanting to do what it took to get him.
I agree with you that the situation right now is different between KU and Duke. It is only that way, I believe, because of some weirdo code of silence that somehow exists. And we’ve discussed this before, where are the aggrieved, the upset fathers of players not getting paid, the girlfriend that knows too much, the player who now doesn’t care, the tell all book deal? Puzzling.
But why should we sit and take it if we’re penalized and others aren’t? No way. Not now.
So play DeSousa. And say kiss my a**. I dare you.
-
Is it too much to ask the NCAA to give an automatic guarantee no university will face competitive sanctions from this case since they aren’t going to do anything this year anyways? Meaning… no probation, no stripping titles and wins, no reductions in scholarships, etc… That type of punishment isn’t good for anyone anyways and definitely bad for business! The punishment should be fines.
Does Kansas “look guilty” for not playing Silvio? If our administration didn’t payout money (or arrange it)… what are we worried about? Play Silvio! We’ve already disciplined Silvio enough!
So much of this is public relations and public reputations. Aren’t we already taking a hit on this? Over what, $2500? And who is the Maryland booster and what actually got paid back east? Boy… what an investment Zion has been for Duke!
-
Not buying the “play him anyway” argument. That would be giving the NCAA something on which to base additional sanctions, including postseason bans, suspensions of coaches, and scholsrship limits even if they wouldn’t have done so just based on the financial allegation. Silvio–or any other player–is not worth it.
-
“Knowing” something and having evidence are different. The most troubling “evidence” from that trial was from a wiretapped phone conversation by Kurtis Townsend. Were phones of Duke coaches tapped, or only phones of coaches from Adidas schools? I’d guess Nike schools have less to worry about. The FBI taps phone, but the NCAA does not. But the NCAA would have more information to use against Adidas schools, regardless of what they think they know.
-
KT knows what Zion got. Guaranteed.
-
What @mayjay said. There seems to be little or no doubt that at best all Silvio received was the money for the on-line classes which is a NCAA violation and would almost always result in a several games suspension (for Silvio) and at worst the alleged $60K which would likely result in major penalties (agaoin, for Silvio). It does not make a difference that KU was not the payer or did not know it contemporaneously, once it found out and knowingly and willingly played him then the program itself would open itself to penalties.
-
There is plenty of evidence that Silvio or someone on his behalf took at least the money for the on-line classes and likely the $60K as well, which is a NCAA violation, that KU is now aware; KU cannot play him until it finds out what the penalty will be. Knowingly playing Silvio being aware that NCAA rules were broken would subject the program itself to penalties.
-
International players are definitely coming to Gonzaga for free.
-
I hear Spokane has nice white sandy beaches and lots of sunshine. Has to be the deciding factor right?? LOL
-
As of today all KU risks with Silvio are forfeiting the games he played in last year including the final four. Since KU pulled him as soon as they publicly found out I’m hopeful that doesn’t happen. On the flip side if you play Silvio and you are forced to forfeit the games later does it taint the memory? Does it make you feel dirty, like a Kentucky fan? If KU won a championship and had to forfeit it would it be worth playing him? Even if KU wouldn’t have won without him? Glad the big guy has morals or we’d find out the consequences of playing Silvio.
-
Last season when Silvio played he had been fully cleared by the NCAA and there were no allegations or indications of foul play at the time so, it would be unlikely that the NCAA would penalize KU. No that the story is out and KU is aware of the allegations, playing him would open the program to penalties if the allegation prove to be correct.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Ayton…just sayin’
-
Arizona, Nike school. Just sayin’…
-
@mayjay @JayHawkFanToo @dylans…and all…thanks for your thoughts. As has been pointed out in every thread touching on the subject…it’s just a ridiculous mess.
So does KU/SDS end up here while others don’t simply because the Adidas trial went first and before the season while the Nike/UA teams get one more year to ride it out because their trials are after the season?
-
@focojayhawk I think there is a 30% chance the alphabet boys go after Nike schools. It would be 0% if the adidas trial had come back without convictions.
-
We’re number 1…we’re number 1…
-
@JayHawkFanToo What’s your precedent for asserting that it is unlikely that KU would be penalized if it did not know of the DeSousa payments? Memphis vacated a FF appearance and they didn’t know. Rose was cleared to play by the NCAA beforehand too.
-
As you know, all the information related to an NCAA investigation is not made public. KU was penalized in 1988 allegedly for providing a prospect a plane ticket but we found out later there were a lot more serious issues that were not made public that brought KU to the brink of the dreaded “death penalty.”
According to the Chicago Tribune, and numerous other publications ”The Educational Testing Service’s cancellation of the player’s test score fit into the NCAA’s “strict liability” category, and the infractions committee did not need to investigate further because it meant the player was ineligible before the season. The NCAA attempted to contact the player twice to attain proof he took the exam, according to the report, but he didn’t respond.”
The ETS contacted Rose and Memphis before the end of the season pursuant its investigation and Memphis was aware of the potential issues and yet chose to play him anyway. Unlike KU, Memphis was aware of the issue while Rose was playing.
Keep in mind that it was not the only violation disclosed; Rose’s brother had also been provided transportation and accommodations to many of the games. There was a clear pattern of program personnel ignoring and/or bypassing issues.
KU, on the other hand, has been proactive in dealing with issues as shown with Alexander, Preston and now DeSousa, all high ranked prospects and did not play any of them once questions of eligibility surfaced. A complete different approach to that of Memphis.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Nice info, but should be Memphis?
-
@mayjay The Calipari link taints everything!
-
LOL…Freudian slip. Fixed now.
-
@JayHawkFanToo Thank you. But my question is, what is the precedent or authority for you suggestion? Your suggestion that KU would be unlikely to be penalized if it didn’t know in advance of the payments. What authority is there that it is “unlikely” we’ll be penalized if we didn’t know of the DeSousa payments before or while we were playing him?
-
Most of the players I can think including Jackson and Selby at KU that received illegal benefits without the school being aware, received the penalty themselves and the school was not penalized unless you consider sitting the player a penalty to the school. KU was not penalized for Alexander either because it acted proactively and sat him as soon as it found out of possible violations in the same way it did with Preston and now DeSousa. KU has been exemplary in this respect. Now, If we find out KU was aware of DeSousa potential ineligibility last season and played him anyway then all bets are off.
Memphis was aware of the allegation before the end of the season and played Rose anyway as did some other schools that were penalized.
East Coast Nike schools such as UNC and Duke are exempt from rules and penalties as we all know…all too well.
-
well take this for what it’s worth -wouldn’t hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I’m waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn’t bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
I’d rather root for the guys wearing white hats, not gray, definitely not black. Hurts to do the right thing by the rules here. Character building I suppose.
-
jayballer73 said:
well take this for what it’s worth -wouldn’t hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I’m waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn’t bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer73 Would you please post the link to the article or share the name of the “reliable source”
-
Per Silvio: No link. No article. No reliable source to identify. Just a poster offering his insight.
-
jayballer73 said:
well take this for what it’s worth -wouldn’t hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I’m waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn’t bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Given the reputation of the poster on the Phog, I’d guess he was just getting attention for his favorite restaurant. “Click bait”, in other words. Nothing to it.
-
jayhawkcsg said:
Per Silvio: No link. No article. No reliable source to identify. Just a poster offering his insight.
@jayhawkcsg: Thanks for the clarification
-
It’s Neenyo, so you assume the info is bad.
-
bcjayhawk said:
jayballer73 said:
well take this for what it’s worth -wouldn’t hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I’m waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn’t bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
@jayballer73 Would you please post the link to the article or share the name of the “reliable source”
I don’t know how to post links. - - I just was reading this of the Phog it was just a poster threading sayin it came from a reliable source - I wouldn’t get that worked up on it - -that’s why I said take it for what it’s worth.
You can look at it in the Phog - -it isn’t a VIP so you can read it he just said I guess it was this guys very reliable source
-
Any reliable source would have to work in the NCAA compliance section and I don’t think any two of them agree what to do.
-
Gorilla72 said:
jayballer73 said:
well take this for what it’s worth -wouldn’t hold a lot into it - -BUT from post off the phog - -poster said that Silvio will be cleared within the next couple of games - per pretty reliable Source - - I’m waiting with baited breathe -but I wouldn’t bet the farm. -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Given the reputation of the poster on the Phog, I’d guess he was just getting attention for his favorite restaurant. “Click bait”, in other words. Nothing to it.
Again THAT’S why I said take it for what it’s worth. - -Hell I don’t know who the poster is personally - -do you know him personally to know what he said is BS? - -that’s what I thought. - -I know him/you know him through media - - but ya kind of odd that he is throwing in promos about restaurant while posting - -crazy group. - -takes all kinds lol - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
-
SILVIO DE SOUSA CLEARED TO PLAY!!!
-
buffer 1
-
sorry guys, I couldn’t help it.
-
my wife told me I’m messed up for posting that.
-
Got me!
-
approxinfinity said:
my wife told me I’m messed up for posting that.
@approxinfinity: Your wife is correct and now your fellow Bucketeers all have a
-
I’ll let it slide as long as ku wins Tomm
