Mitch





  • I figured as much



  • @BShark

    Gotta love Mitch…



  • JayHawkFanToo said:

    @BShark

    Gotta love Mitch…

    Agree.

    Also going to post this here: https://twitter.com/KUHoops/status/1060947628303704069

    A day in the life with Mitch.



  • @BShark nice! Thanks for sharing that. Looks like Mitch is hanging out with Q and Dotson a bit. Glad to see that.



  • Anyone care to venture a guess at how many 3’s Mitch will hit this year? Next year?



  • @approxinfinity maybe 6-7 this year – next year – who knows - -not a lot. - - II think Coach will pretty have him on a short leash with those – maybe 6-7 this year. - -Next year who knows. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • I’ll take the over on that @jayballer73 . Maybe like 10-12 this year.



  • approxinfinity said:

    I’ll take the over on that @jayballer73 . Maybe like 10-12 this year.

    IK. - -just from grins and giggles-- let’s try and keep track and see what he ends up with - -just for fun. - -Now are we talking how many Mitch makes - - or how many he attempts?



  • I really liked that baby hook shot Mitch had in the game. He posted up, and got nothing but net. That is progress. I went back and watched the game again, and noticed a few things…as great as Dotson looked, he did have several drives to nowhere. Typical for our speedy guards learning the system. Not as bad as Tyshawn, and better than young Frank, he’ll tighten that up as he gets more comfortable. In 10 minutes, KJ had 6 boards…these Lawsons can really rebound. Vick had a pretty poor offensive game, and looked like he was not playing with a free mind. He did make a couple nice defensive plays, though. Q is a badass, with NBA range. He might challenge our 1 year record for 3s in a season. Remember when we were worrying about no 3 point shooting?



  • @jayballer73 I’m going with makes. 10-12 makes means Self deliberately wants it as part of the offense. That’s my bet. It’s a long shot. :)



  • @KUSTEVE I like all your observations. You had me at baby hook. It was a beautiful polished move. I said “ok Mitch!”



  • Didn’t he make something like 6-8 from 3 in a Summer exhibition game? He is streaky and if he is in the zone and making them he might take several in one game, depending on playing time. I will go with Mitch shooting close to 50% from 3 and taking 25-30 shots.



  • approxinfinity said:

    @jayballer73 I’m going with makes. 10-12 makes means Self deliberately wants it as part of the offense. That’s my bet. It’s a long shot. :)

    OK - - 6 to 8 then lol ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • JayHawkFanToo said:

    Didn’t he make something like 6-8 from 3 in a Summer exhibition game? He is streaky and if he is in the zone and making them he might take several in one game, depending on playing time. I will go with Mitch shooting close to 50% from 3 and taking 25-30 shots.

    He was 6-17 last year. 50% would take quite an improvement. Not sure he will play enough to make much more than 10 this year. He’s going to have to get some tick against scrub teams, because it’s clear who Self is riding in big games.



  • @BShark

    He shot 0.667 in his freshman year.:smile:



  • LOL. true… Kinda like Withey being 100%. :D



  • @BShark

    Yep. Just like that. :smile:



  • @approxinfinity I hope he works on that shot more than the 3 ball. Part of me wants us to not get a big name OAD at the 4 because I’d love to see Lightfoot and KJ split that spot. Both bring different skills to the table- Lightfoot’s blocking ability, along with his tenaciousness combined with KJ’s driving, passing, shooting, and rebounding skills would be quite formidable, imo.



  • @approxinfinity 10 3’s for Mitch



  • @KUSTEVE I thought KJ was impressive in limited minutes.



  • If Mitch wants to be an impact player at KU, he will need to add things to his game. That includes a three point shot. Becoming a 35% three point shooter from the 4 position makes him a very good collegiate weapon at the 4 spot. He’s not big enough or athletic enough to be a primary scorer, but as a release valve that can hit threes from the top or corner, he becomes very valuable, particularly as a floor spacing option.



  • @justanotherfan And he posted up the other night against Sparty, and made the shot. I also think his 3 ball game could be a nice weapon next year, along with KJ shooting the 3.



  • @justanotherfan

    Mitch shot 35% last season and he is supposedly shooting better this season.





  • Mitch isn’t this team’s problem. That’s for sure.



  • @Kcmatt7 Right. Mitch is pretty much who we thought he was. I remain highly disappointed in Moore, KJ, and Garrett (with Garrett b/c I expected offensive progress). Grimes of course is struggling, but we really need more from these three.



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    @Kcmatt7 Right. Mitch is pretty much who we thought he was. I remain highly disappointed in Moore, KJ, and Garrett (with Garrett b/c I expected offensive progress). Grimes of course is struggling, but we really need more from these three.

    Garrett is one of the worst offensive players I’ve ever seen play D1 ball. He’s 6’5 and coordinated and smooth and athletic. But he can’t even finish at the rim. It’s a mystery.



  • @Kcmatt7 he was finishing last year, jeez what happened to him? His throws looked good though. Huge improvement.



  • @Kcmatt7 Concussion effects still?



  • @mayjay that’s why he’s hitting his throws? Lol jk



  • @Crimsonorblue22 I was wondering more about whether his drives are affected by trying to keep away from contact with his head. Or if he winces anticipating contact.



  • @mayjay @Crimsonorblue22 The way he finishes is timid anyway. Last year, this year. Just makes for more volatility in result I think. He doesn’t go with authority. Finishes are mostly swooping back board layups where he’s angling away a bit. He doesn’t seem try to get to the rim. Contrasting him to Newman, who could get there (but not dunk) – Newman seemed to go at the rim aggressively. Or like Mason or TT. Or a physical comp like Releford. Garrett seems passive on this drives most of the time to me. Players with a scoring mentality attack. Garrett doesn’t demonstrate that mentality.



  • The problem with Garrett and Grimes is that they stayed in Texas for their HS careers. Texas is not good HS basketball. The level of competition just isn’t there. A lot of players here are very soft and afraid of contact. Grimes played in a district made up of some of the most affluent parts and schools in Houston, and those kids are as soft physically as one would imagine.

    It’s not something that Self or Hudy can fix either. It has to be the players who decide they’re no longer scared of contact before anything really changes with them.



  • Garret the problem ?? Yikes Not even close. He’s keeping us in games with all the other things he does. The main problem is 1) grimes apparently can’t figure out D1 ball. 2) most of the team had yet to learn how to play consistent D and communicate on switches and learn to box out. One of the most inconsistent defenders is Vick. D Lawson also is slow on defense. Good thing they can score. Team needs to get better on fast breaks and D



  • What did Grimes do in game one that he hasn’t been able to since? I don’t understand. The talent seemed to ooze from his veins that night. I’m puzzled because I was thinking this guy is going to be our best freshman in quite a while.



  • @Bosthawk Garrett is incompetent on offense. No way that you can say that is not part of the problem. We need offense and the guy shoots like my neighbor. I’ve mentioned this for a while — Garrett off the bench on a differently composed team would be a perfect fit. Here, the lack of offense sticks out like a sore thumb.

    But he’s been the best of the guys not named Dedric, Vick, or Dotson. So you’re right, he’s not near the biggest problem.

    Looking at the PER for our players. Garrett is 13.3. That’s Jamari Traylor territory.

    However, Moore is 8.1 and Grimes 6.4. That’s uncharted territory. We’re 11 games in. Hard to fathom bad it could be that bad.

    Interesting note … McCormack is 24.6, trailing only Dedric.



  • Bosthawk said:

    Garret the problem ?? Yikes Not even close. He’s keeping us in games with all the other things he does. The main problem is 1) grimes apparently can’t figure out D1 ball. 2) most of the team had yet to learn how to play consistent D and communicate on switches and learn to box out. One of the most inconsistent defenders is Vick. D Lawson also is slow on defense. Good thing they can score. Team needs to get better on fast breaks and D

    I have to agree with you on a lot of this - - by far our best defender - -hands down - - - -rebounds well for his position - -very quick hands - -quick feet. - -Garrett is not our problem. I just think this team has holes - -sometimes feels like a lot of holes - -Offensively AND defensively both.

    Again Garrett is not - - is not the problem. - -True on the offensive end is a liability but by far not the only one. Vick is still way to inconsistent - -no shows or no show until late and then tries to turn things on. - - Grimes has been a no show - - - Mitch psssssssst on the OFFENSIVE end - - -Charlie until game before last - -ha - -so Garrett is no more to blame on the offensive then many others are - -BUT yet on the defensive end Garrett stand head and shoulders above everybody else on this team.

    See I think people here seem to want to place blame on the offense - which true they look ugly a lot of times. - -Yet I think we need to look at the defensive side a little more. - -I mean perfect example: - -how many fricken times does a team have to get beat on a back door cut before they realize oh ya looks like we got our ass beat back door - -over and over and over I mean come on where is the help? - -where the hell is our 3 pt FG defense? - I mean I am so sick and tired of watching our players can of trot out towards a guy who is about to launch YET another 3 pt attempt and our players just half jog out at them and then kind of an OLay defensive attempt - -if that’s what you wanna call it. - -Our defense sucks. - Do we have the ability to defend ? - -hell yes we do caught a flash of it a couple of times.

    On the offensive end ya Garrett isn’t gonna save us - but he by far isn’t the only problem. - -These other guys have to step up - -to dam inconsistent. - We aren’t going to do shit in the NCAA if we can only depend on Dedric for scoring - -if that’s the case he won’t even see the ball. - Teams HAVE to have 2-3 players to share the scoring load - -Is Vick gonna show? - -that’s the problem - - we just don’t know which Vick were gonna get. - -Is Grimes ever gonna come out of this funk? - - AGAIN we don’t know. - but to this point the only consistency we are getting is Dedric - and then the next would be most likely is Devon - -need more then that- -We need Marcus - -he is not the problem - -he shouldn’t really need to be counted on - - on the offensive side of the ball , if others one’s we know that can score and have scored would step up - -but their not - right now anyways - and Garrett is just not that type of player - -that’s not what he does - that’s not why Coach has him in there - he is there for his defense. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @HighEliteMajor bring on Big Dave! (might be skewed if its partly mop-up minutes against scrubs but I don’t care! He deserves to play)



  • @jayballer73 I don’t think anyone said Marcus is the problem. Why should we just give Marcus a pass, expectation wise, on his offense? Why should we be more critical of the “others” or expect more of the “others” offensively?

    @approxinfinity The question is if he will really get minutes. I doubt it with Doke coming back.



  • This is a team problem for sure, several guys aren’t playing as they are capable. Garrett is an issue on offense, he didn’t do terrible against ASU because he got to the lane, drew fouls and made the Fts. But he has to start driving consistently and finishing, the dude does great defensively and has his hands on a ton of good plays. Dedric has been fabulous on the offensive end as of late, hes starting to shoot it at a high percentage instead of getting half of his shots swatted back into his face but he isn’t a very good defender and lets up his fair share of buckets on that end. With his athletic ability it prob doesn’t get any better for him at this stage of his career. Dotson is one guy thats tough to find a whole lot to complain about for me outside of getting sped up and committing some avoidable turnovers like the pass that went thru his hands late against ASU. Overall I really like his game for a true freshman out there leading us on offense. Grimes has been very frustrating to watch outside of the MSU game. He doesn’t seem to have any hustle in him whatsoever, he struggles guarding anyone and against ASU he took numerous crappy shots. I like that he was more aggressive and maybe thats the first step or maybe it was all the stouts there. The question is will he play hard when there isn’t several scouts there? Vick just needs to be more consistent and pride himself more on defense. He too had some silly shots vs ASU but we have also seen him hit some really tough ones when he’s on, maybe he needs to limit those when he isn’t hot. Moore has to prove his worth on the offensive end. He is a liability in every other aspect of the game, we need him to come in and hit some open shots. Outside of one game that has not happened and he hasn’t been an addition off the bench. Mitch just needs to keep being Mitch but try to limit his boneheaded plays. KJ has an odd role to me, you really never know what hes gonna do but he seems to play hard and thats all you can ask out of a guy thats prob the 8th or 9th man in the rotation. Doke just needs to get healthy, continue to improve his FTs, Guard without fouling and rebound to his size.



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    @jayballer73 I don’t think anyone said Marcus is the problem. Why should we just give Marcus a pass, expectation wise, on his offense? Why should we be more critical of the “others” or expect more of the “others” offensively?

    @approxinfinity The question is if he will really get minutes. I doubt it with Doke coming back.

    maybe you missed the part in what I said as to what the Coach’s is looking for in Marcus - -that’s for his defense seeing as how these others don’t seem to know how too. - -no one is giving anyone a pass and umm exactly WHERE did you see where I called ANYONE on this site out about Marcus? – go ahead I’ll wait. - -I’ll tell you this there are a hell of a lot more people that I’m on her on this team more then Marcus

    We have the guys that are quite my capable of producing the numbers then Marcus - every player has a role to play for this team - -offense is NOT the role Coach is looking for out of Marcus on this team, - -We have the players that’s suppose to be bale to help the team in those cat - -it’s not Marcus - - he is playing his role quite sufficantly. v- - My question right back at you would be - - why shouldn’t we? let’s be serious.

    Let me ask you this - -who is doing their role better - - Marcus on the defensive end? - -or Vick on the offensive end? - -go ahead again I’ll wait - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @HighEliteMajor Did you get visited by the ghost of Jamari past? Are we going to have to start calling you Ebeneezer?



  • @jayballer73 I didn’t miss anything in your post. I agree that Marcus is doing well in certain phases. But when one says that Marcus is doing exactly what the coach wants, it’s a bit silly. Meaning, of course the coach would want a competent offensive player too. Marcus would be Travis Releford if he could score. They were similarly ranked players. So you’re saying the coach really wants an excellent defensive/intangibles guy, without scoring?

    When someone says of Garrett that he’s exactly what the coach needs, it’s simply holding the bar too low. Garrett gives us what we need in some phases, and I do think that in certain areas, he’s very good. But again, his “role” is his current “role” because his inexplicable offensive deficiencies create that limited role. A role player becomes that because other areas are subpar. The defensive specialist is not a defensive specialist if he can score. He’s just one heck of a BB player if he can do both.

    It’s somewhat similar to what some did with Traylor. Because he was so bad in many other phases, some focused on an area or two to say, wow, he’s filling a role – disregarding that he was a significant net negative.

    Garrett, just my opinion here, is a net positive. Much different because his defense and intangibles, including hustle, far exceed Traylor. But on this team, Garrett’s offensive weakness really is highlighted because we struggle with second line scoring (behind Vick and Dedric).

    I never said you called anyone out. Not sure where you saw that.



  • @HighEliteMajor from the get go - -I’m sure ya that Coach Self did want him as a offensive also - -but when a person realizes what he has in a player - -then he goes with their strengths - -use him for what he is - - not for what he wanted to be. - -Thing is - if he had ANYONE better , then you wouldn’t see him playing as big of a role as he is. - Thing is he has no one better - - Thing is ya he is a liability on the offensive end - -BUT more then makes up for it one the defensive end.

    On the other hand we have OTHER players that aren’t cutting it on the Offensive end or the Defensive end - if they were we wouldn’t be getting our ass handed to us on a silver platter on back cuts and 3 pt perimeter shooting to mention just a couple of things - -Marcus a liability? - -to a point - but there are others that far out exceed being a liability to the team then Marcus. - -but neither one of us are winning this discussion - -you got your opinion I go mine so time for me to move on. - Have a great day. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @jayballer73 Now, no quick exit. You make some excellent points. You said, “ya he is a liability on the offensive end” and “Marcus a liability? – to a point.” And that’s all I (and others) have said. He is a liability scoring wise. Meaning, defenders can play off of him, and thus impact our other offensive players. Remember that. When he’s out there on the three point stripe with Charlie, who will the defense more focus on? And that can impact others – because defenses will give him the open three pointer every time.

    He is a liability on the offensive, as you said. You also said he makes up for it on the defensive end. My point was that a team composed another way – i.e., more reliable scoring, that’s great. Here, that offensive liability is more impactful on our team because we really need more offense (more guys scoring). That’s all.

    It appears we are probably saying much the same thing. You just more passionately. And being passionate about Garrett’s defense and intangibles is something we can all buy into.



  • My hope is… we have players that are good in certain areas and those areas will help lift the rest of the team in those areas. Marcus should inspire others to play hard-nosed defense and others should pick up some of his techniques. Dedric is an offensive machine inside and Vick is from the trey line. Let’s hope others pickup on some of that, too.

    In so many ways, basketball is all about “team.” We should all know that after TRob suffered his tragedy and the team came around to come a few points away from a National Championship… and without a single McDs AA (as I recall).

    We have plenty of talent. But we will never beat Duke in March if we are just trying to match talent.

    I like the energy of this group and hold out hope they come together as a team. If they do, I don’t see anyone getting in their way of a title. Big “if” but we are respectable with a banged up Doke, Grimes is still lost out there, and few have truly found their identity on this team. So far, I’d say Dedric is leading the pack on this squad for identity. Even Vick is still honing in on how he fits in this.



  • @HighEliteMajor I understand what you saying - - yet if the guys that are known for scoring is a major part of the problem - like you said we need more guys scoring - -which is true , BUT if the guys that have been known as scorers were stepping up like they need to be and have in the past - -we wouldn’t need Marcus as much for that - if they were scoring as they should then Marcus scoring would just be gravy

    You tell me can you honestly say you have looked at Marcus as a scorer for this team ? - Have you ever thought of Marcus as a scorer? – -Me neither - - the thing is If Vick was being consistent which he STILL isn’t - -we wouldn’t be talking about this. - -Who is considered more of an offensive threat - -Quentin – or Marcus?- --and Quentin has done what? - -If Quentin was fulfilling his part - -would we need Marcus for his scoring as much ? - -You say we need more scoring - -that’s true - -BUT if Vick and Quentin were doing what they need that’s three out of five in the rotation as true scoring threats.

    Then you mention Charlie - -up until the game before last how much of a scoring threat has Charlie been ? – answer Zelch - -I mean up until that single game for the season - opponents could afford to back off him also - -the opposing Coach of the team that when HE DID shoot lights out said that when he did it surprised him - - - Here again - -even if Charlie stepped up and with more consistency he is a much more offensive scorer then Marcus - -so that is 4 guys that we having for scoring if they play like they should/can - -we don’t need Marcus to score if the others are doing what they need to do. - Marcus is not a person no matter that is going to scare other opponents never has been – never will be - -that is not who he is - -we shouldn’t need him for that if others do what they need to do , much more then Marcus. - If we start to feel the need to depend on him for that - - -were Screwed



  • @jayballer73

    in all fairness, all players have been saying all along that Charlie is the best 3 point shooter in the team; he just had not had a chance until recently to stay in long enough and get in rhythm to score like he is capable.

    As far a not needing Marcus to score, Idon’t agree with that either. He needs to be a scoring threat either from the outside, mid-range or penetrating, otherwise teams can leave him unguarded and basically have 5 players defend 4 and one is going to be double teamed everytime which is not good.

    I had high hopes for Marcus since it was reported that he had been working over the Summer with his uncle, who is a coach, fixing his shooting and was doing rather well. The problem is that apparently they tried making his poor shooting form more efficient and it did not make any measurable progress and the ceiling for that style is very low. Marcus needed to first, change his shooting form to the correct one with a much higher ceiling and second, improve the efficiency of his new style. I will guess next summer the staff will not let the uncle anywhere near Marcus.



  • Offensively, Garrett creates a “gravity” problem. On the perimeter, Marcus Garrett does not create any sort of gravity. Defenders can go under screens and sag well off him because he’s not a threat to score from outside. That means that if he is on the floor with Doke and Dedric, there will be no space in the paint because there will be two big guys and three defenders in or around the lane.

    I looked up Garrett’s offensive numbers to be sure the eye test wasn’t fooling me. They are truly offensive.

    Freshman year - 62/136 from the field (45%), 12/45 from three (26%), 25/51 from FT (49%), 44 assists to 30 turnovers (1.47 to 1 ratio). There is nothing in that offensive profile from last year that spells danger for an opponent.

    Sophomore year - 18/56 from the field (32%), 4/18 from three (22%), 21/32 from FT (66%), 25 assists to 7 turnovers (3.57 to 1 ration). Garrett is basically only dangerous if he is passing the ball. His FG and 3pt shooting are all but unplayable. Not just limited minutes. We are talking outright cannot get on the court levels. And that FT% was aided by a 7-8 night against Arizona State. Prior to that, he was 14/24 (58%).

    It isn’t enough to say that Marcus Garrett is a limited offensive player. He’s worse than that. He’s very nearly a net negative on the offensive end because of his poor shooting. Not a break even. A net negative. He’s only grabbing about 4 rebounds per game. He’d need to be closer to six to balance out the fact that he’s a non threat on offense.

    That’s the profile of a player that plays 17 mpg, not 27. We have gone through this so many times in the Self era that we know the names by heart - Morningstar… Traylor… Lucas… the list of “role” players over played and over exposed because they were “mistake free”.

    If this isn’t corrected, KU’s season will end with Marcus Garrett going 2-9 from the field, including 0-4 from three with 2 assists and 1 turnover to go along with 5 rebounds in 29 minutes of a Sweet Sixteen loss. You can bookmark this comment and laugh and point at me later if I am wrong, but that is my fear.

    Garrett is a poor shooter. While I am sure he worked hard on it over the summer, there are flaws. I don’t expect that he will ever be a great, or even good shooter. But he is the 2018 Chiefs defense - he’s a day trip away from mediocre. He does other things well (some even extremely well), but his offensive limits make him strictly a role player.

    He either has to crash the glass offensively to create extra possessions, or he has to create so much offense for others (basically become Doug Gottlieb). The only problem is that Gottlieb even may have been a superior shooter to Garrett, and was almost certainly a superior passer. I just don’t see a clear path to improvement for Garrett that doesn’t involve him becoming a much better shooter, and that isn’t happening overnight.

    That’s why we need Grimes, KJ Lawson, Moore and others to step forward. Garrett is simply too limited offensively to shoulder as many minutes as he currently is being asked to. It’s Jamari Traylor all over again. Great for 15 minutes. Not great for 25.


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