Other Games Tonight
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@HighEliteMajor Roy and Bill are the ones in that bracket IMO.
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Funny how K is whining about the forthcoming changes eliminating the OAD. His bread and butter is being taken away from him and he’s worried. He shouldn’t be worried because he’s won before the days of the OAD.
Not sure I’m including K in the discussion for all time greatest coach. Wooden is #1 hands down. Classy, obviously recruiting was easy for him, although some claim he was dirty as dirt itself in his recruiting. But K’s collection of talent over the years should have led to many more titles. And one of the titles is so tainted in 2015 that it should have an asterisk next to it.
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@kjayhawks I’d say K, Roy, and Jim Calhoun as the top 3. I’m a national title guy.
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@wissox I was listening to a radio show this morning and they were talking about how to judge a coach. They were talking about much the tournament was a blunder and the best team doesn’t win it all that often and I agree. I thought it was 2 years running but its actually 3 that coach K has had the best class in basketball and hasn’t even made a FF in that time. I always thought you don’t have to have title to be considered the best of all time as a player but I think you need at least one to be considered the best coach. But how can we judge them accurately? It may not be possible, Wooden is the best in my mind because he turned UCLA into a power house from scratch. I believe they had all of 2 division titles in their history before he showed up and Haven’t been relevant but about 7 years since his departure 40 some odd years ago. How can judge Self vs K or Roy? Roy has more titles but couldn’t win as many games or any at Kansas while Self has. Coach K was average at Army posting a record barely over .500 before Dook and he was prob gonna get fired if they didn’t do anything in 86. They were already considered a basketball school before K got there, they won 3 straight ACC titles and made the title game once in the 3 years leading up him. Obviously Self inherited a program here that had when to back to back final fours. Self has the best win percentage and conference titles of bunch . I agree that the ACC is better most years but Self also has a top 10 SOS year after year and doesn’t get the recruits that either of the other 2. It maybe an impossible question to answer at this point.
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Absolutely no way on Calhoun. His last title was complete lucky trash too. He has more failures to make the tournament than titles. Fwiw he is back in coaching. 16-12 at a D3 school in Connecticut. He’s actually helping to found their program as the school was previously women only.
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I’m pretty torn on Wooden’s legacy. I think he was a good coach. I don’t know that he would have had the same legacy if he was coaching in the modern era with 64 team tournaments.
I also think he also allowed blatant cheating and his legacy was saved by the NCAA when they killed an investigation into the program in 1977 that likely could have erased a lot of, if not all of the championships.
I just can’t put a man as my top coach in history when he has so many questions marks. His first 15 years were nothing more than him being a good but not great coach. But then, seemingly out of nowhere, he became an amazing recruiter and THAT much better than everyone else at coaching for a dozen seasons? A lot of coincidences for me to buy that he did what he did without a distinct advantage. I mean, if he was just the greatest coach of all-time, why did it take him 15 years before he even found real success at UCLA? It all adds up to cheating more than it adds up to dominance, at least in my skeptical mind.
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@BShark National titles aren’t trash – somehow we can’t figure out how get “lucky trash” NCs as you call his 2011 title (you know, when Self cost us that year’s title). Calhoun had as many NCs in 13 seasons as KU has in its entire, storied history, and he left a legacy at UConn that helped win another in 2014. I’m sure we can all get whimsical about making the tourney and losing to Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, Stanford, and Wichita St., but I think I’d settle for missing all five of those tournaments for one more national title.
@Kcmatt7 Why do you criticize Wooden for cheating when your position all along has been that everyone cheats?
@kjayhawks So you’re suggesting that it’s so much harder to win a NC at KU? We’re a blue blood. Maybe I’m reading you wrong. I’ve pointed this out before, and no one has been able to challenge it. We always have a top 5 roster. Meaning, if you lined up all of the rosters at the beginning of the season, we’ve always been top 5 under Self (maybe a few close calls we can grant a naysayer, but really top flight rosters all the time). Yet, just one title in 16 seasons, three FFs.
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KU almost stumbled into a title in 2012. Would have been pretty lucky, but that year was basically predetermined because AD was so good.
It certainly seems that it is harder to win a title at KU than UNC. Roy being large proof of that. Maybe it’s just bad luck? Roy could have easily had two titles at KU with a few slightly different bounces of the ball.
As far as top 5 rosters go, I think KU used to have them but it’s been awhile. There are usually some key flaws now. When was the last loaded KU team, 2011 maybe?
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@HighEliteMajor Yes, I’m saying its harder to win a title at KU. KU hasn’t had a top 5 starting line up all the years Self has been here close but no way 2006, 2009, 2012, 2018 or (maybe if we had everyone) 2019. Roy is a prime example of it being harder or maybe its dumb luck. KU doesn’t get a fraction of the media coverage or get as near the top recruits that the ACC powers do.
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@BShark I’d say 2013 is probably the last year we were “loaded” hard to consider a team with Landon Lucas starting to be uber talented (love LL but he likely wasn’t a D1 caliber of player). I don’t know that I’ve ever looked at a KU team and said this is hands down the most talented team in the country, maybe 07 or 08. Now we have had the talent and team to win titles but seldom the most talented team overall. It takes more than talent to win titles, coaching, experience, etc. Ask coach K lol, Duke was probably the most talented team in 2015, 2018 and 2019. UK has had the most talented team several times including 2011, 2012.
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@BShark @kjayhawks Our roster to begin this season was perhaps the best roster in college BB. Arguably at least. We were the number one team to start the season. That tells us what others thought.
I would be very interested in the years listed by @kjayhawks to know the five teams with better rosters. 2005-2006 - Chalmers, Rush, Wright, Robinson, Kaun, DJ, Giles. But that was one of the years I thought was close call. 2008-09, Aldrich, Collins, Marcus, Markieff, Tyshawn, Releford, Little (and a little Tyrone Appleton!). Another close call year.
I ask, last season, what roster would you rather have? Nova? Ok. I’ve don’t this at the beginning of the season most years – what roster would you trade for? Certainly not more than four each season.
At the end of the season, things always look different. But lining up to begin the year, assessing what each team has – we always loaded.
This season, on paper, perhaps as much as we ever were. Remember, we had presumed OAD that fizzled. We had Doke. Dedric. Vick. DeSousa. A top PG. A McD AA in McCormack. Now, what Self does with that is his business. He brought back Vick who “Vicked” us. Doke got hurt. DeSousa stayed in the barn. Even if we exclude DeSousa, easy top 5. Easy.
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@jayballer73 You were so right!
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@HighEliteMajor remember having a better or more talented roster doesn’t necessarily win games. Dook had a more talented roster than we did last year we just played better when it mattered and coach Self out coached K IMO. In regards in being preseason #1, I think that has happened at KU 3 times in history since the poll started. I believe that 06 team was unranked in the preseason and after getting spanked in Maui, a lot folks thought we were headed to the NIT. The 09 team was preseason ranked #24, 2012 was #13 so if you want to look at the preseason rankings as a tell tell, it doesn’t support your cause much. We could argue about it all day because it is an opinion but I stand by my comment of not having the most talent most years.
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@kjayhawks I agree on your two main points. One, that a better or more talented roster guarantees nothing. And two, that we don’t have “the most talent most years.”
I think we had the best roster in the country in only three seasons under Self, 2008, 2011, and 2016.
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@HighEliteMajor I would agree this year’s roster was top 5 going into the season. By the time you remove two of the top three interior players and one of the best three guards (when he was engaged) well we see what happened.
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@HighEliteMajor I agree, that 2016 team really should’ve beat Nova and won the whole thing but Nova should’ve been a 1 seed not the 4th #2, they was ranked #1 late in the year. Still pisses me off that it wasn’t a NC or FF game.
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That foul call on Devonte still chaffs my rear end.
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@BShark Let’s not go down that path, Damn it!!!
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BShark said:
That foul call on Devonte still chaffs my rear end.
It’s the worst. See a few every game not called under the same circumstances. The nova player didnt have possession of the ball to make that call the way he did. They missed the 2 3 hand checks tho on devonte that caused the play. Bogus beyond belief
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argh. ugly flashback.
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This has been a fun page to visit as we all watch various games. Lots of good stuff here.
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WSU fans talking a ton of smack because their still playing lol. I ask them if anyone after the early 70s keeps track of NIT appearances or FFs.
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Just tell them Not In Tournament or Not Important Team or Nincompoops in Training or Nimrods and Idiots and Toadlickers.
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Not Invited Tournament. You know ‘cause everyone gets a ribbon.
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wissox said:
Just tell them Not In Tournament or Not Important Team or Nincompoops in Training or Nimrods and Idiots and Toadlickers.
or - -NOBODY’S INTERESTED TOURNAMENT
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Brutal. How lucky are we!
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jayballer73 said:
wissox said:
Just tell them Not In Tournament or Not Important Team or Nincompoops in Training or Nimrods and Idiots and Toadlickers.
or - -NOBODY’S INTERESTED TOURNAMENT
Or…just call it the tournament to determine that all-important 69th Best Team In America.
Gregg Marshall should’ve taken one of those big-money coaching offers he had before his program went into decline.
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Marsha is right where he needs to be. Big fish in a little pond and very well paid. I doubt WSU could do better. I guess UCLA needs a coach though.
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As long as Marsha continues with the classy comments, “we’re the only Kansas team still playing” he deserves WSU.
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Bet Marsha is po’d! They had it! Missed their lil team skirmish
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Umm - -wonder if Marsha and the WHO SHOCK/WOO SHOCK -I could give Ol Greggie hell for a classic choke - - but I won’t - - - I won’t - -the HELL I won’t - -pretty sad display – what the hell happened there Greg lmao
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HAHA go home shockers.
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Enjoyed the UVA Auburn game. Glad to see Guy out of his slump.
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I’m torn here as a BIG fan and TTech admirer. BIG hasn’t won a title since 2000 when MSU won it. Indiana, Illinois, Ohio St., Michigan and Michigan St have played in the finals a total of 7 times and never won since 2000.
As for my bracket I had Virginia in the final playing Michigan State. Looking pretty good!
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Virginia gotta pretty lucky, miss an obvious double dribble and that was a weak foul on a trash shot at the buzzer. But what a difference a year makes.
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kjayhawks said:
Virginia gotta pretty lucky, miss an obvious double dribble and that was a weak foul on a trash shot at the buzzer. But what a difference a year makes.
How was that a weak foul on a trash shot? That was a clear foul on a money 3 point shooter who was set on the baseline.
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@approxinfinity how hard of a foul could it have been if the dude shot it too hard and was still up right? If KU was called for that at the buzzer we’d all be pissed.
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Tech is playing this game at a good pace for them, keeping MSU from running.
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Even chuck called it a foul
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Good thing tt can play D, can’t hit the broad side of the barn.
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This is the kind of game MSU played against Wisconsin in the Final four in 2000 when Roy Williams criticized it saying it was bad for college basketball. Can’t say I disagree with this one. Wow, this is brutal.
Sorry KJ, I saw that as a pretty clear foul once the replay was shown. He jumped right into the guy.
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@wissox I thought it was weak in that situation. The missed double dribble was worse.
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Did anyone realize KU beat both of these teams playing right now?
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Yep
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Owens, tough injury! Love to have him on our team. More so than culver
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Mahomes!🥰
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wissox said:
I’m torn here as a BIG fan and TTech admirer. BIG hasn’t won a title since 2000 when MSU won it. Indiana, Illinois, Ohio St., Michigan and Michigan St have played in the finals a total of 7 times and never won since 2000.
As for my bracket I had Virginia in the final playing Michigan State. Looking pretty good!
Tech representing our league - -Carrying the Big 12 banner. - Pulling for them/league all the way 100 %. - - their defense is just insane. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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approxinfinity said:
kjayhawks said:
Virginia gotta pretty lucky, miss an obvious double dribble and that was a weak foul on a trash shot at the buzzer. But what a difference a year makes.
How was that a weak foul on a trash shot? That was a clear foul on a money 3 point shooter who was set on the baseline.
shouldn’t of come to it being a trash shot or not - - BLOWN CALL 100 %
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kjayhawks said:
@approxinfinity how hard of a foul could it have been if the dude shot it too hard and was still up right? If KU was called for that at the buzzer we’d all be pissed.
he shouldn’t of even had the ball for the shot - -they totally screwed Auburn by not making the Double dribble call. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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kjayhawks said:
@wissox I thought it was weak in that situation. The missed double dribble was worse.
Couldn’t agree with you more - -not really sure why people talking about the foul and yes it was a foul - -BUT should of never come to that. - - BLOWN CALL
