FBI...here we go
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@KirkIsMyHinrich If Bill was “in the know”, then why did Billy’s mom go to such lengths to avoid detection? Why would she tell her son to lie if Bill knew? Why would the Adidas guy make such an adamant point to proclaim Bill’s innocence on the subject in court, under threat of perjury? Unless you have something we don’t know about, it would appear you are speculating. My take is…nobody threatened Bill with not playing Preston. Preston wasn’t declared ineligible. He wasn’t “ordered” to not play him. When something came out, he made the family prove it wasn’t an illegal benefit, which they couldn’t. And Preston didn’t play a second, even though he could’ve helped us alot. That doesn’t seem to me like a guilty guy who doesn’t care about the rules, nudging and winking at the Adidas rep over a 2,500 payment to Silvio. So, do you really think Bill would involve himself in something like that?
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Not a word, or even a hint, in those texts about money.
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@KUSTEVE And as nutty as Billy’s mom appears you’d think she would have zero issues blaming Self and KU.
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@kjayhawks Good point. She even blamed all the fans for having suspicions!
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mayjay said:
Not a word, or even a hint, in those texts about money.
Self will be fine at the end of this unless something new and crazy comes out. Which I do not expect to happen.
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Its simply optics anyone is worried about. That’s all. Nobody is shocked. Most people probably realize it happens at all the schools. It doesn’t appear Self broke any rules. But it also just doesn’t look good.
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Optics don’t win basketball games. This whole deal is actually pretty good timing considering the season starts in less than two weeks and then people forget by signing day.
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I’d say Self is fine at this point, Gassnola probably wouldn’t lie under oath to protect Self. He has no reason too. As @KUSTEVE said why was Billy’s mom trying to hide her payments from Self and KU if he already knew. Once Gassnola was a AAU coach that has a lotta connections, every D1coach has a guy in the background doing recruiting. I’m ready for this to be over and the NCAA to change stuff so this doesn’t happen again.
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To me it’s just like even if Self was aware of the shoe company’s payments what exactly can he do about it? If it’s the best player he can get he has pressure every year to build a championship caliber team and will recruit that player regardless. I think Bill Self and the program are 100% in the clear but as for Silvio I’m not convinced. Probably for no fault of his own but it’s a dirty game these shoe company’s are playing.
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SkinnyKansasDude said:
To me it’s just like even if Self was aware of the shoe company’s payments what exactly can he do about it? If it’s the best player he can get he has pressure every year to build a championship caliber team and will recruit that player regardless. I think Bill Self and the program are 100% in the clear but as for Silvio I’m not convinced. Probably for no fault of his own but it’s a dirty game these shoe company’s are playing.
This is a great point. If KU were to field a team of players that didn’t take money, they’d be the worst team in the B12.
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@BShark I personally believe everyone is getting something, I think the NCAA just doesn’t care if you don’t leave a paper trail. Several former top recruits on the matter have said everyones getting paid but we didn’t when asked about it. I think its been going on since the 50s when UK got busted. ESPN radio had a former D1 assistant on a few years back that asked not to be identified and he claimed there is no such thing as a free recruit in today’s game, claimed even the local guys that were fans of the school wanted something because they knew they could get it.
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kjayhawks said:
@BShark I personally believe everyone is getting something, I think the NCAA just doesn’t care if you don’t leave a paper trail. Several former top recruits on the matter have said everyones getting paid but we didn’t when asked about it. I think its been going on since the 50s when UK got busted. ESPN radio had a former D1 assistant on a few years back that asked not to be identified and he claimed there is no such thing as a free recruit in today’s game, claimed even the local guys that were fans of the school wanted something because they knew they could get it.
Of course. Don’t ask, don’t tell.
I’m sure KU players paid for their brand new car totally on their own though. A lot of stuff that happens is totally legal like the parents of players being employed (and overpaid) by alumni but not directly attached to the university.
Agree, college athletics have been dirty the entire time. All the way back to the 40s or w/e. We know Wooden was dirty and like you said UK as well.
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@BShark So, apparently lack of money explains the football team, perennially last in the Big 12. Nice to be the honest ones!
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@BShark you think hidden gems like DG and frank were paid?
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Adam Zagoria Verified account @AdamZagoria 23s24 seconds ago
Update from the trial: defendants Gatto, Dawkins and Code all elected not to testify
Jury will hear closing arguments Wednesday- Thursday and could reach a verdict as early as Thursday. Otherwise it will go into next week.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Definitely paid by someone. Butler CC football players find envelopes of cash in their mailboxes.
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@JayHawkFanToo Great Movie!
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It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
I mean it’s Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.
What is there isn’t anything KU hasn’t done before, it’s just KT saying he will get it done is a bit dicey, imo.
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Also in that thread, Will Wade incriminating himself. Very interesting that these weren’t allowed in court.
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BShark said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
It’s about Zion so who cares? Not like we pid him not to come.
I mean it’s Townsend on tape offering to pay for Zion. This one is not spinnable, imo. KT might have to fall on the sword. I hope not, obviously.
Lol apparently you’ve never worked in politics. Everything is spinnable. For example, Townsend is simply speaking about figuring out how to do it legally. “Some way” doesn’t mean against NCAA rules at all. It doesn’t have nearly enough context to draw any kind of certain inference. The federal government maintains KU was not complicit in any illegal activity.
No context = no intent.
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@FarmerJayhawk Agreed. If that was what it would take to get him to KU, it is obvious that we didn’t do it.
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Without context it is hard to tell what the gist of the entire conversation was; it is interesting and telling it was not admitted as evidence. In any case, KT never mentions money just says:
"I’ve got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that’s what it takes to get him here for 10 months, we’re going to have to do it some way."
He could easily explain it away by saying he was talking about legal, NCAA compliant means rather than cash and because KU/Adidas would not pay Williamson did not come to KU…Duke, on the other hand, now has some 'splaining to do.
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I mean that is a terrible look for Duke as well. It’s fairly clear they met the demands of Zion and his family.
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Lol Coach K saying he wasn’t worried about it… Jay Williams said on air he was paid while at Duke and everyone else he knew was paid. He said his former agency paid Kevin Love’s AAU Coach $250k.
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@Kcmatt7 it obvious Duke and UK are forking out some serious cash, I believe they are the only schools that have signed multiple top 25 recruits the each last 10 classes. If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.
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kjayhawks said:
If people are paying for a average at best Bowen type player rest assured Parker, Zion, Carter and Bagley all got a truck full of cash to go Duke.
Actually, it’s a car full of cash and they all got to keep the car - a BMW, I believe.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-even-dare-investigate-zion-williamson-now-hes-duke-043518120.html
Good article here by Wetzel…
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@Woodrow That first quote of KT’s does tend to look bad, but I am puzzled by something.
He is talking to Adidas, which has been providing cash to players. So why does KT say he himself has to work something out rather than simply suggesting that Adidas work something out?
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@mayjay Because Zion’s Dad also wanted a “job” and a car. So I am assuming KT had to go to the boosters to try and secure those…
Also I just read where Zion’s family is living in a $800,000 house outside Durham.
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@Woodrow Link?
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@Woodrow I’m sure Zion’s parents were saving up!
@Kcmatt7 Internet rumor mill, but it probably isn’t wrong.
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@Woodrow Wouldn’t he have said something more directly on point? And couldn’t Adidas, willing to float hundreds of thousands of dollar, arrange for a car and job easily enough?
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@mayjay I am not going to pretend to understand how this business of recruiting works, but I would think ( and have heard) that it is usually the team that sets up housing and cars.
How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those…??
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Woodrow said:
How many parents of players have moved to Lawrence, and found a nice apartment / house to live in. You think they are paying market value for those…??
And have nice new cars. Plus a cushy job that is completely legal and not directly attached to KU in most cases (Ronnie Chalmers an obvious exception here).
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Tyshawn’s mom worked at Hyvee, angel was an apt complex manager, cole’s dad worked here. None were cushy jobs.
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@Woodrow Thank you very much for sharing this article. It brings up a very very interesting question.
IF KU really truly offered Zion illegal benefits then how and why did he end up at Duke? He just really wanted to play at Cameron for the one year he is required to play before going pro? Something to think about.
I have personally always assumed that the major programs “cheated” to get the top guys, KU included. I have also always assumed that the major programs with the major players are what fans want to see and this is how the NCAA makes the most money. Based on this I highly doubt that the hammer is dropped on KU or Duke or Zona or anyone else involved in this current situation. Where would the investigation go from here? What about football? That is the more lucrative sport and there is simply no way that the top programs are “clean”.
It is an unfortunate reality as a fan but life is full of unfortunate realizations. I will personally watch every game this year as I always do. It may be a bit more tainted now that the veil has been pulled away but it is what it is. Real life is hard and I personally need the escape of college basketball.
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@Woodrow Incidentally, every single story I have seen on this conversation is based entirely on Dan Wetzel’s tweets. Since TV was prohibited from this trial, did Wetzel record the reading of the transcrpt on his phone? Try to transcribe it? I know how hard it is to accruately transcribe in real time–my hearings were tape-recorded and I often had to replay the tape to get it accurate.
Assuming Wetzel did not have a recording or access to the transcrpt itself, the quotes he tweeted might have been truncated to make KT sound worse. But that is only one possibility–the actual words could also have been much worse.
And the transcription could also have been inaccurate. Unlikely, but I had a military client who contended that his record of trial was inaccurate. I asked him how so, and he said that in the 45 pages covering his guilty plea, he had really said “no” every time the judge asked if he did something alleged in the indictment, and they just ignored him the whole time. He denied drawing the map showing his crime, he denied signing his confession, he denied agreeing to his plea bargain…
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@Woodrow Very good read and I agree with it. They have let Coach K and Dook do whatever they pleased for decades based off of his image. I don’t think the NCAA has the balls to take down a high profile coach like that.
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@kjayhawks Not only Coach K but Duke as a program. You take away all the blue bloods and the market for the game and tournament plummets. You know what else plummets… The money!
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@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn’t even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.
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@Woodrow Yep, they ain’t gonna bite the hands thats feeding them. They can say they are for the athletes or who ever but they are about money just like everyone else in this world, not limited but including our government.
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kjayhawks said:
@BShark That happens everywhere aswell IMO. Michael Beasleys mom went from rags to riches when he at KSU. She lived in a multi million dollars condo out by the country club, his former agent leaked a ton of info about this and the NCAA didn’t even care to look at it. Also Shaq, Charles Barkley and Jay Williams all have admitted to being paid in college for nothing to happen. Several football players have as well. The SMU death penalty is still laughable because they knew several other Texas schools were doing the same thing.
Absolutely. I didn’t mean to imply that it only goes on at KU. It is wide-spread.
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@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can’t believe there wouldn’t be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
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mayjay said:
@BShark Is there a trickle down to the rest of the team? I can’t believe there wouldn’t be resentment and jealousy by lower-echelon players, even walk ons. You would expect some of the kids who get recruited over to anonymously blow the whistle to get someone booted and get back their PT.
Well it’s not just the elite players getting paid.
The walk-ons are a different animal though. One could even say, they have the opposite role of the scholarship players.
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Question: If everyone does it, and if everyone knows it, why hasn’t the NCAA changed its rules to simply allow more compensation and level the playing field? The periodic scandals do not do the sport any good.
