2020 Recruiting
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Basically Diallo 2.0
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@BeddieKU23 Can we take a team vote before we ink him to an LOI?
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BeddieKU23 said:
Basically Diallo 2.0
If he’s a multi-year Diallo I’d take him in a heartbeat.
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HEY - - what has happened to us with our recruitment on Greg Brown? -had a article on him off Zags Blog about his recruitment. - -I know we were recruiting him and recruiting him pretty hard.
Now he says several schools recruiting him hard and KU is not listed. - - -Brown stated that Memphis - - - Texas - - -North Carolina - - & Auburn are the schools that have been working the hardest , stating that he was planning to cut his list like I think he said around Jun or July to like 7 schools, - we better stay hard on this kid - -we had been active with him for some time and now NOTHING?
ANYONE know any more info - -really good player. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Nike won’t allow him to go to KU.
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Why don’t the players just wear Nike or Adidas or UA on their jerseys? Then we’d know who these players are really playing for.
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KirkIsMyHinrich said:
Why don’t the players just wear Nike or Adidas or UA on their jerseys? Then we’d know who these players are really playing for.
Greg Brown is actually Adidas AAU but I just assume Nike will get him if they want him. See Hurt, Matt.
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I’m not sure what the strategy is in 20. We need a big, big group again. Brown and Dante are the big targets but I think UNC for Brown and Oregon for Dante.
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Some good info from the Star (oxymoron I know) on some 2020 guys. https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article230345514.html
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And I absolutely love Isaiah Todd. UK is going to be a nightmare though.
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Would be concerned about Bryce Thompson as of now. Officially visited Oklahoma yesterday…
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Jaden Springer cut his list to 11 including KU. Surprisingly no Duke/UK at this time. Can’t imagine that actually stays that way heading into the summer. I know he’s a longshot. Just passing along that he has KU on his long list
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BeddieKU23 said:
Jaden Springer cut his list to 11 including KU. Surprisingly no Duke/UK at this time. Can’t imagine that actually stays that way heading into the summer. I know he’s a longshot. Just passing along that he has KU on his long list
Rivals is 100% Tenn and 24/7 is 100% UNC. Found that interesting.
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@BShark So the bidding war begins. Whoever offers the most zeros wins…
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Interesting. I haven’t paid much attention to him to him since he’s really a longshot. IMG as we know does us no favors either.
Looks like Tennessee is trending for a 4 star SG Keon Johnson who announced a final 3 and will announce in August.
I know Springer took an official visit to Tenn already and has visited 3 times overall… Hmm
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Saw the recent article on Cade Cunningham, another unlikely guard KU can get. His Brother played at SMU under Larry Brown which could be some sort of “in”. Seems like if Kentucky wants him they will get him. He’s a stud, top 3 player in 20 from what I’ve seen
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BeddieKU23 said:
Saw the recent article on Cade Cunningham, another unlikely guard KU can get. His Brother played at SMU under Larry Brown which could be some sort of “in”. Seems like if Kentucky wants him they will get him. He’s an stud, top 3 player in 20 from what I’ve seen
Wouldn’t be the first player Larry has dropped off to Bill. If he can…I’d be all about it. Cade is soooooooo good.
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Legitimately a PG at his size. Crazy
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KU HAS OFFER A SCHOLARSHIP TO 2021 5- STAR TERRENCE CLARKE
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KU recently offered 5 star guard Cam Thomas of Oak Hill. Master Bucket getter is all you need to know here
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Really wondering where KU’s focus will be in 2020. I wouldn’t consider anyone in the Top 15 to end up at KU right now.
Kyree Walker seems like the prospect we have the most traction with but he’s been bouncing between 19 & 20. I don’t think it will end well if he sticks in 20 when other teams look at him as a focus. The edge for KU in 19 was having scholarships available and PT.
Is it just me or does it feel like KU is behind the 8 ball with this class? Didn’t get many underclassmen on campus for visits. KU has 5 starting spots to sell after this season. I’m surprised how little interest kids have with that
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BeddieKU23 said:
KU recently offered 5 star guard Cam Thomas of Oak Hill. Master Bucket getter is all you need to know here
That’s a great description. He’s not super quick, or super athletic, or really big, or anything else. He just puts the ball in the basket over and over and over.
Now, he’s not overly small, or unathletic, or slow by any means. But the thing that stands out about him when you watch is that he puts the ball in the basket all the time.
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@BeddieKU23 I just think we have a weird roster at the moment. We have those tweener guys that scare players away. You’re not telling anyone they’re starting over Ochai in 2020. McBride should scare some PGs. Braun is a 6’8 Wing player with a stroke. Garrett will be a Senior Wing player. Enaruna a guy plenty athletic to have a good Sophomore season at PF. Big Dave at C.
I guess I personally just don’t see 5 starting spots to sell at the moment. I see a lot of competition.
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justanotherfan said:
BeddieKU23 said:
KU recently offered 5 star guard Cam Thomas of Oak Hill. Master Bucket getter is all you need to know here
That’s a great description. He’s not super quick, or super athletic, or really big, or anything else. He just puts the ball in the basket over and over and over.
Now, he’s not overly small, or unathletic, or slow by any means. But the thing that stands out about him when you watch is that he puts the ball in the basket all the time.
There’s a lot of Malik Newman in him. Not saying they are the same type of prospect but the ability to score is what they do best. I’m surprised we didn’t offer earlier. He’s one of the best scorers in the country regardless of class
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 I just think we have a weird roster at the moment. We have those tweener guys that scare players away. You’re not telling anyone they’re starting over Ochai in 2020. McBride should scare some PGs. Braun is a 6’8 Wing player with a stroke. Garrett will be a Senior Wing player. Enaruna a guy plenty athletic to have a good Sophomore season at PF. Big Dave at C.
I guess I personally just don’t see 5 starting spots to sell at the moment. I see a lot of competition.
Recruiting just seems to be changing quicker then KU can keep up.
Positions KU will have to focus on regardless is PG & PF/C. KU will need at least two big bodies even if Jaylen signs with KU.
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Let’s get Cunningham and Todd and just dumpster opponents.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Cunningham/Cam Thomas is my dream backcourt.
The bigs in 20 are not appealing.
Outside of Todd and Dante I agree. Odds of Dante are slim. Self could roll out JR Dave, SO Enaruna, SO Wilson and SO Braun and it would be small but livable with a ton of shooting. Braun would be the 4th guy with minimal minutes. Adding Todd would change everything in the front court.
Tons of great guard options but how many spots does KU have is a real question. My top wants in order and I’d be fine with any of em: Cunningham, Nix, Thompson, Miller, Thomas. Would love to see Berry offered at some point to be a stash and develop guy if he is okay with that.
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Maybe they pursue Maddy Sissoko as that bigger athletic type big. I mean he can rim run and defend the basket but can’t do much else… Could do worse.
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He’d be a fine back-up 5.
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@BShark you talking ty berry?
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 I just think we have a weird roster at the moment. We have those tweener guys that scare players away. You’re not telling anyone they’re starting over Ochai in 2020. McBride should scare some PGs. Braun is a 6’8 Wing player with a stroke. Garrett will be a Senior Wing player. Enaruna a guy plenty athletic to have a good Sophomore season at PF. Big Dave at C.
I guess I personally just don’t see 5 starting spots to sell at the moment. I see a lot of competition.
I think that’s probably a pretty fair assumption - -choice of words , I couldn’t disagree with that - Nice buddy couldn’t agree more. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark you talking ty berry?
Yeah. Last I knew KU still hadn’t offered. I think that’s a mistake.
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Yeah, I know, maybe coach knows a bit more than me but I agree with @BShark, Ty Berry should have already been offered - the guy can ball. In fact, I’ll take it a step further, why recruit five star point guards (just a hypothetical) at all? How about just signing solid point guards like McBride who can do everything and then fill out the rest of the roster with top 20 to 75 guys?
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Saw ty play his sophomore year. Need to watch him again. His team not great and neither was the team he played. Hard for me to tell.
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Marco said:
Yeah, I know, maybe coach knows a bit more than me but I agree with @BShark, Ty Berry should have already been offered - the guy can ball. In fact, I’ll take it a step further, why recruit five star point guards (just a hypothetical) at all? How about just signing solid point guards like McBride who can do everything and then fill out the rest of the roster with top 20 to 75 guys?
It’s very difficult to find guys willing to come in and sit for a bit. Which is what you would want them to do or you’d have growing pain years. For better or worse Self tries to field the best team possible every year.
Even for THE GREAT ONE at Villanova he had some early departures so they couldn’t do their typical development stuff, had to start young guys and suffered for it this last season.
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@BShark I am not saying that he should not try to field the best team possible. Get as many high-caliber players as possible, just field those in around a Frank, Devonte or Isaac.
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@Marco You have to find those guys though and it’s pretty rare. The staff stumbled into Frank and Devonte. Self also constantly tried to recruit over both. I don’t remember fully what the story with Issac (this is how his name is spelled, going to be fun on KU boards for years to come) is but I hope he ends up being a similar success story. He reminds me more of Devonte than Frank. He’s got “in the gym” range just needs to get a little quicker if possible.
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@Marco You said, “… fill out the rest of the roster with top 20 to 75 guys.” Your point is one that I have discussed here on multiple occasions. I think it is a good one. I firmly believe that the key is that the coach has to make a commitment to the players outside of OAD range (up to a certain level) that he will never recruit over them with a presumed OAD. Committing to avoiding the presumed OAD is the key. That is completely realistic. It’s as simple as doing it. Further, it would set a tenor for the program, it would free up a massive amount of time that was otherwise spent chasing the next Andrew Wiggins, and most of all, it would fit better with Bill Self as a coach. If a school like KU focuses on that range of recruits, I fail to see how we can’t land a nice crop each season.
@BShark I think sometimes we confuse the “fielding the best team” with pursuing presumed OADs. I firmly believe presumed OADs don’t make the best “team.”
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I feel like we just had this conversation and others like @Kcmatt7 @justanotherfan plus myself laid out why it’s not as simple as saying KU can land any top 25-75 player if they want.
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@BShark We did … and we’ve had it for years. But no one has ever said that KU “can land any top 25-75 player if they want” with this approach.
What has been said is that if KU focused it’s recruiting efforts in that general range, outside of presumed OAD, we’d have a better team that would better fit what Self desires, and we’d have more success in that range because we’re not wasting our time with the top end presumed OADs. Nothing is perfect, and the stray targeted OAD for an open spot on the roster sometimes happens, including grad transfers. But if we get out of the presumed OAD game, I think there is a strong argument that our program will be better overall. It is obvious that in some years, not having that plug and play OAD might not be totally beneficial (folks have argued X in 2010, Wiggins in 2013). Clearly, Josh Jackson being here was a plus on the court. But in all three of those seasons, we got out of the first weekend once. The other presumed OADs have been complete disasters (Selby, Cliff, Diallo) … the latter two I’d argue were because our coach was not enamored.
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@HighEliteMajor agree with everything you said but the roster without Wiggins was a mess, esp when Embiid went down. Maybe if we saw that as a rebuilding year and invested in a multi year guy. Im behind that. At the time I think we were all behind the visibility of the #1 and #3 pick in draft for recruiting purposes. I wonder now if that mattered so much?
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Well KU was the best team in the country the X year and he was one of the best 3 players on it. So I don’t think that one can even be argued.
KU doesn’t have enough data points for OADs. UK and Duke have had plenty of success with that model. The more you obtain, the more that turn out to be great players and the more that wash out. The baseline for talent is certainly higher, and Self is enamored with that so I doubt we see a change in approach. Six of the last seven signings were not presumed OADs but how much of that is Self just missing?
I won’t argue that Self does his best work with multi year players. You could give him a bag of rocks and he’d probably make the tournament. I’ve lined out before the experience on his FF teams. How much of that is luck? How much of it is Self’s approach to maximizing regular season results? I would argue, gun to their head most coaches would admit they coach to win every game. No coach has a magic elixir that lets them bypass some amount of regular season success for tournament success. Considering 2010 and 11 were some of Self’s best teams, the best team in the country those years and they failed to even make the FF. Then he gets there in 2012 with a 6 player team (admittedly still a top 5 one) and in 2018 with a team that couldn’t defend a lick. 2016 was another tight miss with a top team that happened to play the best team in the country in the EE. So 10 and 11 were more likely than 12 and 16 was more likely than 18. There is definitely a luck factor but as the 18 team showed it sure helps when you can shoot the crap out of the ball.
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@HighEliteMajor The other problem with “OAD” is if “Johnny Top Recruit” happens to suck, Bill can’t just bench him w/o massive criticism. Case in point…Q at times last year…
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Hard to recruit guys to sit for two years. Believe what you want, but I’m telling you it is THE #1 most important factor. My little sister played D2 soccer instead of D1 soccer because she knew she’d get to start from day 1. My older sister transferred out of D1 softball to Community College after one semester because she wanted to play every single game. I was told by the 4 year colleges that I visited that I might not see the field, but the local CC was telling me I’d at least DH. So I went to CC first. (Before “retiring” and ending up in Lawrence).
Then consider this. A player like Grimes was never supposed to be a OAD when we first started recruiting him years ago. But then he blew up and others hyped him up outside of KU. You guys act like we just start recruiting guys 6 months out. But this is 2-3 years out where you’re contacting most guys and seeing who is interested and then building that relationship. A guy could be 50th for the 2020 class right now and then explode this summer and end up 15th and have OAD expectations, but you’ve already built up the relationship for 2 years. Hard to all of a sudden tell them “you’ve actually gotten too good at basketball and we can’t take you anymore.”
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Almost no one wants to sit. Look at Enaruna and Wilson both saying they want to play right away. Both are top 50 guys. Wilson literally said he’s not going somewhere to sit, and that he wants to hoop. Even Frank and Devonte were getting solid tick as FR (Mason should have played even more over Tharpe). You have to go way down the rankings and even then it’s hard to find guys willing to take a year (or worse two) off.
@Kcmatt7 Great point about how early recruiting starts. When KU offered Sam Williamson (Self pissing off his mom is gonna hurt), Bryce Thompson and Daishen Nix they were all basically unranked. Sam’s other offers were schools like INCARNATE WORD. Of these three it looks like only Nix is blowing up to OAD status but all will end up top 50. Hell I remember being chided by a poster on another site for saying KU should offer and take Sam when he only had crap offers. The same poster later bemoaned the miss of a top 20 player.
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Even Bryce is tracking on being a top 30ish guy in the new rankings. Dude has had an incredible spring. You go after the best fit for your roster. Period. Some guys like Ben just go supernova after a year and then you’re scrambling anyway. We don’t make the tournament without Wiggs in 2014.
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@Kcmatt7 and @BShark make great points about recruiting being a long process. Because of that, you start watching these guys as middle schoolers, and start recruiting them as freshmen and sophomores in HS.
A kid that is the 30th or 40th best player in his class as a freshman in high school may flat out stop developing, at which point he may not even be a top 200 recruit as a junior. At that point its too late to get back into the running with guys that have gone from being unranked to high level, and that kid isn’t P5 material at that point.
Once kids start growing and getting more athletic in HS, they really can take off.
For example, Cleveland State thought they had a pretty solid combo guard out of Chicago. Then that kid grew eight inches in a summer and turned into Anthony Davis as we know him. When KU started recruiting Joel Embiid he was hardly ranked in the top 100. Then he just exploded. Basically went from being a project to being a lottery pick in less than 24 months. On the other side of things, Zach Peters was a nice recruit for KU. Injuries kept him from ever playing a P5 level game.
Ochai Agbaji is another good example. He was barely a D1 recruit entering his senior year. He developed so quickly that KU was lucky to land him. Often, that type of player lands at a mid major instead because its their best offer. But for every kid that develops rapidly, there are ten others that peak and never improve.
@Kcmatt7 makes a tremendous point about playing time. We act like only higher ranked players want to play, but that is just not the case. EVERYBODY wants to play. College sports, unlike HS sports, is a lot of work. Putting in that kind of time and effort to sit on the bench is not something most people want to do. Especially if they are good enough to play somewhere else, whether that’s dropping down from P5 to mid major, or from D1 to D2. I had a friend that went D2 because he knew that he would be playing as a freshman and likely starting as a sophomore. He was good enough to crack a D1 rotation, but it may have taken him two or three seasons to get serious minutes.
And regardless of saying you won’t recruit over a player, the reality is that every year, you’re recruiting over what you already have. Let’s do a quick exercise:
Say this year your roster has two PG, two combo guards, three true wings, a combo forward and four post players. You have a junior PG and a freshman PG. You have a senior combo guard and a sophomore combo guard. Two of your wings are juniors. One is a sophomore. Your combo forward is a freshman. Two senior post players, a freshman and a sophomore. So your squad is perfectly balanced with three seniors, three juniors, three sophomores and three freshmen. You need to replace your three seniors. What do you recruit?
Obviously you’re going to recruit at least one new post player because you have two senior post players. But you also have two young post players. If you recruit a new post player that comes in and is better than your two current players guess what, you have now recruited over your in house talent. And because you have two seniors, you will probably have to offer four or five post guys. You have to recruit guys that are good enough to play eventually, maybe even right now because you don’t have a ton of depth inside.
On the perimeter, you’re graduating a combo guard, so you have to go get another perimeter player, whether that’s a PG, combo guard or a true wing player. But again, let’s say you miss on your top combo guard targets, but there’s a really good PG out there that wants to come to your school. Now your current freshman PG is not happy because he’s stuck fighting this guy for a spot in the rotation and he’s already (presumably) sitting behind your junior PG.
Saying you won’t recruit over guys is impossible. Saying that you won’t recruit over a certain level is impossible. KU recruits the top players because KU is a top school that can recruit the top players. If KU avoids recruiting those players, they risk missing out on more than just OADs.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Marco You said, “… fill out the rest of the roster with top 20 to 75 guys.” Your point is one that I have discussed here on multiple occasions. I think it is a good one. I firmly believe that the key is that the coach has to make a commitment to the players outside of OAD range (up to a certain level) that he will never recruit over them with a presumed OAD. Committing to avoiding the presumed OAD is the key. That is completely realistic. It’s as simple as doing it. Further, it would set a tenor for the program, it would free up a massive amount of time that was otherwise spent chasing the next Andrew Wiggins, and most of all, it would fit better with Bill Self as a coach. If a school like KU focuses on that range of recruits, I fail to see how we can’t land a nice crop each season.
@BShark I think sometimes we confuse the “fielding the best team” with pursuing presumed OADs. I firmly believe presumed OADs don’t make the best “team.”
I totally agree.
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I agree I think that KU needs to hurry up and offer Ty Berry, hes the best point guard in the Midwest.
