Preseason Hype/Discussion
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I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.
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BeddieKU23 said:
I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.
It could bite me because they have been consistent under Huggins but I just don’t see how they are near the top of the league with that back court.
Also if I was coaching Texas I would start Sims and Hepa to just be extremely athletic.
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Good for him, I hope is able to return. How effective he will be after what he went through is another story. Big inspiration for the team
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.
It could bite me because they have been consistent under Huggins but I just don’t see how they are near the top of the league with that back court.
If Huggins makes this team work he definitely earns his checks. I know he was high on Doomes who had to sit last season. Beetle and Harler are nothing special, Beetle can score some but he’s nothing like Carter/Miles. My Brewster friend has good things to say about Culver who should be ahead of the curve a little bit taking that post-grad year to work on his academics.
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@BeddieKU23 If he can mostly be the same player he was, they have great back court depth. If Courtney Ramey has to be the 4th guard and they basically don’t have a 5th guard* that really impacts their rotations and ability to keep guys fresh.
*Febres and Mitrou-Long are not good enough
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If I were putting money on it:
- KU
- WVU
- KSU
- UT
- TCU
- Baylor
- ISU
- Tech
- OSU
- OU
KU undefeated through Conference play, winning the conference by a full 5 games.
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I like that you have West Virginia 6th. I just have a hard time putting them higher with their guard options being so limited. They are going to rely on Ahmad, West & Punkate a ton.
It could bite me because they have been consistent under Huggins but I just don’t see how they are near the top of the league with that back court.
If Huggins makes this team work he definitely earns his checks. I know he was high on Doomes who had to sit last season. Beetle and Harler are nothing special, Beetle can score some but he’s nothing like Carter/Miles. My Brewster friend has good things to say about Culver who should be ahead of the curve a little bit taking that post-grad year to work on his academics.
Culver is good, but they are already relatively loaded inside.
Bolden could legitimately be their best guard which will keep Huggins up at night. I’m thinking they will start three forwards to avoid starting two FR guards.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 If he can mostly be the same player he was, they have great back court depth. If Courtney Ramey has to be the 4th guard and they basically don’t have a 5th guard* that really impacts their rotations and ability to keep guys fresh.
*Febres and Mitrou-Long are not good enough
Interesting I thought Mitrou-Long was pretty good as a Soph. He averaged 15 ppg in 6 games against P5 competition (West Virginia, Iowa St, Minnesota, Michigan, Arkansas, Villanova) being the competition. Had 14 against West Virginia, 19 against Iowa St
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Kcmatt7 said:
If I were putting money on it:
- KU
- WVU
- KSU
- UT
- TCU
- Baylor
- ISU
- Tech
- OSU
- OU
KU undefeated through Conference play, winning the conference by a full 5 games.
That’s a lot of faith in Huggins considering their roster, but he has earned that kind of respect.
No way KU sweeps the league. Probably a couple wtf losses and one loss to a better team in the league. I’d guess 15-3.
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 If he can mostly be the same player he was, they have great back court depth. If Courtney Ramey has to be the 4th guard and they basically don’t have a 5th guard* that really impacts their rotations and ability to keep guys fresh.
*Febres and Mitrou-Long are not good enough
Interesting I thought Mitrou-Long was pretty good as a Soph. He averaged 15 ppg in 6 games against P5 competition (West Virginia, Iowa St, Minnesota, Michigan, Arkansas, Villanova) being the competition. Had 14 against West Virginia, 19 against Iowa St
KU has played worse guards under Self (COUGH COUGH THARPE COUGH) but I still wouldn’t feel good about him getting minutes. If Jones is good to go I doubt Long plays much at all.
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1- KU
2- Silo Tech
3-TCU
4-TT
5-Hillbillies
6-Clones
7-Okie St
8-Faylor
9-Shorthorns
10-OU
I could be all wrong, but as long as I get the first one right, it doesn’t make a bit of difference to me.
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BeddieKU23 said:
I don’t trust Smart to make them a good offensive team. Just look what he couldn’t do with Allen and Bamba. The Coleman/Long/Roach backcourt could be salty though. I thought Sims flashed as well. They still have Slow O (Osetkowski) in the post
I’ll just move this here.
I think they should have as good of a starting 5 as anybody in the league. But I agree, Shaka worries me. More than anything, I’m just high on Coleman as a Sophomore. If he can improve his 3PT shot he could be the top PG in the league this season. The best thing for UT this season though is not having a Bamba or Allen that Shaka feels he needs to show off. They should be more guard/team oriented.
- Coleman/Ramey
- Roach/Davis
- Jones/Liddel
- Osetkowski/Hepa
- Sims
They are really about 9 deep and they should be able to space the floor with 4 shooters on the floor at all times. Could go 5 if they really wanted to.
Of course, Shaka will drive them into the ground, but I do like their roster.
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I moved mine too.
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KU
KSU
TCU
ISU
WV
T-TECH
TEX
BAY
OU
OSU
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@BShark Can’t bet against Huggins. Hard to bet against Drew somehow putting together something that somehow finishes in the top half of the league.
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Davis went pro.
If Jones is ready to start the season I see a lineup of Coleman, Jones, Roach, Osetkowski, Sims. If Jones is eased into competition slide in Mitrou-Long into the starting lineup. That 4 man backcourt can compete with anyone in the Big-12 but only if all 4 are the best versions of themselves. I was never high on Roach but he improved a lot last season and I see him carrying the team as a senior.
I have no idea how good the freshman are. 4 top 100 kids, you figure at least one can contribute high level minutes. They will be a young squad when going to their bench
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Bamba was not a very polished offensive player. Tons of potential on that end, but not polished at all. If he were a Wendell Carter type, he would have been easier to run the offense through, but he’s more of a shot blocker, rim runner type that can step out and shoot a bit. Once Jones went out, UT lost a lot of their offensive identity (he was easily their best perimeter player).
I think Texas will be improved, but I still think the top 4 teams in the conference will be Kansas, WVU, K-State and TCU.
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For some reason I forgot Eric Davis, Jr. went pro. DERP. That changes a lot of what I said about UT and their roster…
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That was the PR “your not coming” back move. He was caught up in the FBI stuff. I don’t think Smart was taking him back
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I forgot too. I still like their roster though.
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BeddieKU23 said:
That was the PR “your not coming” back move. He was caught up in the FBI stuff. I don’t think Smart was taking him back
Yep, definitely.
@Kcmatt7 I agree, but it has a big impact on what I thought their guard rotation was. Doubly true if Jones isn’t 100%.
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Cannot count Huggy out and Smart has wasted talent before and with a bottom half finish his seat gets very hot. TCU has a lot of upside and ISU will have good talent but Prohm has yet to prove he can run with the top dogs.
KU
KSU
WVU
TCU
ISU
UT
TTU
Baylor
OSU
OU
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@BShark Id flip TCU and TX. WVU will be at least top 5 again. Huggy can flat out coach and Sagaba Konata is a beast.
KU is the leader once again KSU is gonna be really good this year. We might split the series with them and see them in the tourney final game for the tie breaker.
OU and ISU will bring up the rear of the conference.
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Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?
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@JayHawkFanToo yep, in my
’s
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?
I always thought he was a distraction - so my hype - -I think it got into his had and his play got worse bad decisions , turnovers, bad shots. He is going to be nothing more then an average NBA player - - unless he buys into the NBA role now cause in College he played absolutely zero defense I don’t know how many times I saw him do the old ollay whiff when a player drove past him. I think even though nothing was made public I would bet you there was some team chemistry issues on that squad last year - - there was some that was saying Trae was all they had – I call Bullsahit on that - they had some quality players.
A lot of the reasons when HE DID pass the ball it caught them off guard because the times were far a few in between - again he got to forcing shots wasn’t the entire season but a long stretch - -these players aren’t as bad as they were made out to be
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?
Huge net negative.
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I was at an ice hockey game last night and a Jayhawk basketball game broke out in the crowd.
But seriously… imagine how intimidating our team is going to look this year?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?
Great question.
In my observation Kruger just took it too far with how much freedom he gave Young. You could see the disconnect on the team by the middle of conference play. It certainly looked like his teammates were jealous to an extent and pissed off at Young having so much media coverage and having the ball in his hands a staggering % of the time for their offense. Young’s play at times looked selfish but he also had plenty of brilliant moments. If anything I think Kruger just failed to strike a balance between having a standout star player and making the rest of the pieces coexist with him. I would be stunned if players were not upset at the situation.
As far as being a net positive/negative I think without Young’s talent that OU team wasn’t making the tournament and wasn’t going anywhere. Overall he’s a positive to the program because there was massive exposure to OU all over the media (OU probably profited off Young) , Young was drafted high so that helps with recruiting. I’m sure there were plenty of recruits or players coming up that looked at Young’s situation as something they would want for themselves. No other player in the country was given the freedom or control that Young got. If players are about showcasing for the NBA this was a perfect example of that.
OU is going to struggle this year but not because Young is gone. Manek, James, McNease is a solid core trio but what else do they have. They had to go the grad transfer route for guards because the cupboard is bare. McGusty leaving hurt them big time and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was part of the Young fallout (net negative part you mentioned). Odomes & Doolittle haven’t progressed like you would expect from Kruger. It’s not a talented bunch and the only way they stay competitive is if the transfer guards they got play out of their mind.
Kruger is in rebuild mode and has to find a way to get better players back in Norman. He’s also got to keep them in Norman once they get there which has also been an issue.
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What’s everyone’s thoughts on who will be on the Pre-Season First Team All Big-12? Who will be POY, Defensive POY?
1st Team:
Barry Brown
Desmond Bane
Dean Wade
Dedric Lawson
Udoka Azubuike
POY- Dedric Lawson
Defensive POY- Konate- Unamimous
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I’m going to go out on a limb
All Big 12
Brown
Wigginton
Grimes
Wade
Dedric
POY Dedric
DPOY Konate
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Team 1: Brown, Wigginton, Wade, Lawson, Konate
Team 2: Fisher, Grimes, Bane, Lard, Azubuike
POY: Lawson
DPOY: Konate
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@KirkIsMyHinrich That combination for 1st and 2nd team definitely looks correct. I’d pretty much bet on those ten.
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It hurt me to put two kitties on the first team, but Brown and Wade are pretty much the team.
I would put Grimes first team if he played for any other team in the Big 12.
Fisher is the one I feel least confident in because of his knee.
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Yeah, big caveat there on Fisher. IF he can stay healthy. ISU having two guys that should be first and second team and THT speaks to their talent. We are going to find out if Prohm is a goober this year imo.
Brown and Wade definitely feel like locks. Sneed is a DUDE too but other than that KSU is mostly replacement level players. In fact I think Sneed will add just as much value to their team as Brown. Brown has more name recognition at this point though.
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@BeddieKU23 lol
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Fisher had another surgery and will be ready by the beginning of season? Knee again?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Here is an interesting question in view of how everybody seems to have OU at the bottom. In spite of his big numbers, was Trae Young a net positive or a net negative to the program? By catering to one player to the detriment of the team, did Lon Kruger damaged his career and coaching reputation?
Young was a positive for OU. That team probably finishes 9th or 10th in the League without him, and definitely misses the tournament. They basically repeat the previous year.
This year we will see them without a good PG again, and OU will likely finish 8th or worse in the League and miss the tournament.
I think Kruger has hurt himself by struggling as much as he has since Hield and Co. left. Rather than building on that, the program has fallen flat. I think that hurts him more than letting a top 5 pick have free rein over the offense.
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Question:
Do you think OU basketball suffers when their football does well?
One of my dear OU football friends says they can’t have it both ways. The more promotion OU football gets its just a reminder that OU is a football school, not a basketball school.
I’d like to hear what people in here think about that comment.
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I think OU could be better in basketball, but its a matter of emphasis. OU doesn’t focus on basketball. They don’t pour a lot of resources into basketball. OU could be a top 25 program if they put the resources into it.
Kruger is a good coach, but OU doesn’t recruit at an elite level. If they did, they would be consistently in the rankings.
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@justanotherfan Yep. You can only win so much with a bag full of rocks.
And now Lon is going to have to start two grad transfers, including one who is on his third team now, and wasn’t really doing well in the A-10.
Realistically Lon needs a big class this year too. They currently have one solid player committed that should be the cornerstone of this class but there is a lot more work to be done there.
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Agree with others, Lon just isn’t a consistent recruiter. OU is a machine in football because they recruit Top 10 classes. Imagine Lon doing the same or any program in the Big-12 doing this outside of KU.
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Grimes is one I think can end up 1st team by season’s end. If he’s the leading scorer on this team or the top guard option that looks favorable. For some reason it looks like he might go a bit underrated until we see how big his role is on a stacked team
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@BeddieKU23 I think he ends up being the 2nd leading scorer and a general stat sheet stuffer. That should be good enough for first team if it happens.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 I think he ends up being the 2nd leading scorer and a general stat sheet stuffer. That should be good enough for first team if it happens.
That’s my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:
Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.
After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed…
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
That’s my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:
Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.
After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed…
I think you’re probably underselling KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore a bit there. I think Azubuike probably scores a bit less, but more efficiently (8 or 9 ppg, but 80% or better from the field). I think both KJ and Moore average 6 or 7, probably at the expense of a non-scorer like Garrett. Dedric probably only scores 16 or so a game because there are so many options.
This team will score 80+ a night, but it will be fairly spread out, as you outlined. Dedric will be in double figures every night, but after that, a revolving cast of characters will have big games. Grimes will have a couple of games where he goes off for 25-30 (I wouldn’t be surprised if Grimes has the highest scoring game of the season). Dotson will have a 20 point game or two. Moore will go for 15-20 a time or two. De Sousa will have some nights where he gets some offensive put backs that push him to 12 or 14. Vick will have a game where he hits 4 or 5 threes to get him near or over 20. Heck, Dedric has a 30 point night in him, too. Azubuike will have a game where he dunks a team to death and goes for 20.
This KU team has six guys that can go for 20 on a given night, and probably eight that can go for 15. That’s going to put a lot of pressure on defenses.
Like you said, so many mouths to feed… but I think everybody will get their chances to eat.
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These were mine that I posted in another thread. I think the overall average might be a bit high though…
Dedric 17
Grimes 12
Doke 10
Vick 9
KJ 9
Dotson 7
Silvio 7
Moore 6
Garrett 5
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@BShark I hope Doke is more of a force than 10 points a game. His size alone should be good for 4-5 easy dunks a game. Maybe another 4-6 points off of baby hooks and (gulp) free throws. I would love to see his average around 14 and 10.
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@BeddieKU23 I agree pretty much with what you have predicted , like you say a lot of mouths - -however I think Silvio might be a little more productively ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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justanotherfan said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
That’s my expectation as well. This KU team is good enough to have 5 starters in double figures but the minutes figure to limit that to probably 4. I would expect:
Dedric-18 pts, Grimes- 13, Vick - 12, Azubuike- 11.
After that Dotson- 8, Garrett- 6, De Sousa- 5, Moore/Lawson 4 & 4 I figure in that order. So many mouths to feed…
I think you’re probably underselling KJ Lawson and Charlie Moore a bit there. I think Azubuike probably scores a bit less, but more efficiently (8 or 9 ppg, but 80% or better from the field). I think both KJ and Moore average 6 or 7, probably at the expense of a non-scorer like Garrett. Dedric probably only scores 16 or so a game because there are so many options.
This team will score 80+ a night, but it will be fairly spread out, as you outlined. Dedric will be in double figures every night, but after that, a revolving cast of characters will have big games. Grimes will have a couple of games where he goes off for 25-30 (I wouldn’t be surprised if Grimes has the highest scoring game of the season). Dotson will have a 20 point game or two. Moore will go for 15-20 a time or two. De Sousa will have some nights where he gets some offensive put backs that push him to 12 or 14. Vick will have a game where he hits 4 or 5 threes to get him near or over 20. Heck, Dedric has a 30 point night in him, too. Azubuike will have a game where he dunks a team to death and goes for 20.
This KU team has six guys that can go for 20 on a given night, and probably eight that can go for 15. That’s going to put a lot of pressure on defenses.
Like you said, so many mouths to feed… but I think everybody will get their chances to eat.
I’ve gone back and forth on the scoring projections. I’m confident in the top 4 more or less but you could be right about KJ/Charlie, we just don’t know how the minutes are going to shake out which is why I went low. This team shouldn’t have any trouble scoring 80 a game once this team forms an identity and Self figures out who’s in the rotation and how all the pieces fit.
