Naked Hazing … I'm Conflicted.



  • https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kansas-cheerleaders-detail-hazing-incident-took-place-youth-summer-camp-213902318.html

    My conflict:

    1. Where does personal choice come into play when adults are involved?

    2. Did fellow cheerleaders really … take … the … clothes … off … the … other … cheerleaders? Breath, guys, breath.

    3. If true, how stupid can a coach/administrator be?

    4. What does it take to be one of the “alumni guys?”

    5. I note that it is KSU’s student newspaper that broke the story. The next story? “Naked Grazing” in Manhattan. Way too easy.

    6. Is this really slavery?

    7. What if one of the “alumni guys” was James Gatto?

    8. Someone had to have their cell phone camera running, right? Or a surveillance cam? Or an NSA satellite? Come on.

    9. Will this help or hurt recruiting? After all, isn’t that all that matters?

    10. And finally, if UK or Duke did this, would there be stacking? 5 stack? 6 stack? Or good grief, a 7 stack?



  • :face_palm:



  • Sounds like KU is trying to join the club with Baylor and Michigan State.

    Girod needs to clean house in the athletic department. This is not a good path KU is headed down right now.



  • In this day and age when this type of behavior is no longer tolerated and cell phone cameras record everything, something like this is beyond stupid. The Ahletic Department needs to clean house and get the cheerleading program in order; the last thing it needs is this type of negative publicity particularly at this time.



  • That picture accompanying the story is very ironic.

    When will kids learn?

    Probably when the drinking culture is changed. How much of this crap comes as a result of excessive drinking? IDK, but I wouldn’t be surprised there’s a link.



  • Exactly what the hell is going on in Lawrence anyways? - -holy crap. We don’t need this kind of attention not only right now but anytime period. - Cheerleading hazing? - -any kind of hazing needs to STOP period end of story.

    The events that has surrounded this athletic program the last 2-3 years is just sad. - -Now whether these events actually happened - - Right - -Wrong - -or otherwise - - it’s got to stop. - -Like has been mentioned by others here it has gotten to a point where we almost have to go in and clean house in the athletic dept.-- It’s these kind of things that will for sure kill the recruiting or have a major impact in recruiting for the only revenue profit making program for the school -the Basketball program. - -Without the basketball and the success of this where would our athletics be?

    Again did this happen? - -maybe - -maybe not. – possibly - - possibly not - -if it did -then something has to be done for sure , these women don’t deserve this kind of crap -the school doesn’t need this kind of negative representation. - Like one said are we coming to be another Baylor?

    Plus whether people want to turn their heads - - look the other way and pretend NONE of these things are going on - - -time to wake up - - smell the Coffee - - IT IS going on - -and it’s goin on here at our beloved University. - - and if you want to deny - -or say oh no - -no way will this happen - think again - I’m talking about if these types of things continue to happen like this whole FBI scandal - -this hazing thing - - the dorm where our players stay - - -Carlton Bragg – Silvio - - LaGerald - - -Josh - - - I know sure quite possibly we don’t know things probably never will - - then the Alexander thing with his mom and Money - -just the mere mention is not a good look for us. - -but these types of things if they continue if we can’t get this stopped , could very easily be a determining reason Coach Self could finally say -you know what screw this , I’m done with all this , and resign - - -THIS could be the ONE reason he could pull stakes and move on and explore his NBA options - most like the San Antonio after Pops retires which isn’t very far away.

    Coach may just say he has had enough of all the NCAA bullshit -recruiting regulations - – -allegations - - FBI probes - - eligibility issues - - -the wear and tears of recruiting . - -you think this sounds crazy? - - -YA OK you go ahead and keep right on thinking that – I’m tellin ya if this crap doesn’t straighten out it can happen - and happen easily – He has always expressed at least some interest in exploring the NBA - -has at least talked a little bit - and I think as well as several other people feel that San Antonio is the ONE NBA team that he could very well leave for. - - it’s not as crazy as some may think. - -Yet if people want to continue to close their eyes and deny you go right ahead Then if and when if happens - - -you ask what the hell happened? - - umm ya - -not so crazy after all huh? - - We have get these problems or accused problems fixed.

    What’s the solution if these are all true? - - Clean house?- - -Possibly - something has to be done. – You tell me how we fix these things



  • Wasn’t there an incident in the last couple years involving male cheerleaders posing so only three K’s were visible on their KU shirts? Just like this, funny, real funny, the kind that builds a fine reputation.



  • mayjay said:

    Wasn’t there an incident in the last couple years involving male cheerleaders posing so only three K’s were visible on their KU shirts? Just like this, funny, real funny, the kind that builds a fine reputation.

    YA - - love the reputation were starting to get - -don’t you



  • Upon further reflection, something has to be said about the comments following the article: Decent people find nothing titillating, amusing, or cute about women being made to feel helpless or put in situations where they are vulnerable to exploitation or abuse, including the leers of passers-by or the perverse fantasies of men hearing about it.



  • @mayjay Ah, now you can put your head on your pillow and sleep soundly, knowing that you have scolded the insensitive. It makes you feel better about yourself, I know. Thanks for your definition of “decent people.” It makes me so thankful, every day, that I’m not one “you.” Sometimes you can chuckle a little about something without getting your little panties in a knot.

    Now, you can move on to a new outrage today. Search hard, you’ll find one.



  • @jayballer73 To your response, this is crazy. Like with many things we hear that people do, it is simply unreal to consider the lack of foresight, thoughtfulness, and common sense.

    Did Zenger know?



  • Sounds stupid. I hate frats partially because of this crap too. If I have to pay and them jump through hoops to be your friend, we aren’t friends.



  • @HighEliteMajor Wow. Maybe you really don’t see the difference between a make-believe fantasy and one that involves getting excited by a woman actually in fear. Go ahead, keep breathing hard when you read sex-crime news stories. Your attitude is, thankfully, getting replaced by more respectful ones. And let me know how you would react to hearing a guy make suggestive and leering comments when reading a story about, say, your daughter or wife disrobing and being viewed by strange men without their consent.



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    @jayballer73 To your response, this is crazy. Like with many things we hear that people do, it is simply unreal to consider the lack of foresight, thoughtfulness, and common sense.

    Did Zenger know?

    Did Zenger know? - - That’s a really good question - -you know what I would almost be willing to bet we will never know



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    @jayballer73 To your response, this is crazy. Like with many things we hear that people do, it is simply unreal to consider the lack of foresight, thoughtfulness, and common sense.

    Did Zenger know?

    At this point, does it matter? There’s been enough incidents that are shining a negative light at KU under Zenger’s watch that indicate one of two things. He’s either complacent in taking action or he’s too ignorant of what’s going on to effectively run the department.

    This isn’t even factoring in the Adidas investigation or the incredibly poor performance of most of the athletic programs at KU under Zenger.



  • Jeebus.

    I don’t want to be negative and jump to premature conclusions, but it appears KU has become the sacrificial lamb in this whole sordid pay-for-play scenario. The general public doesn’t care which major school goes down for system-wide transgressions as long as someone goes down and it appears all eyes are on KU.

    Not to diminish hazing at all so please don’t take my comment that way, but I don’t even truly know where an incident like this lies on the transgression spectrum when compared to, say, decades of academic fraud. Neither does Joe Public. Whether this article represents irrefutable truth or just baseless allegations, provable or not, this garnered a big, juicy headline and unfortunately that’s all that’s necessary to slant opinion in today’s click-bait world.

    I’d wager that we’re going to hear more and more things coming out now about our school and our program as the dominoes begin to fall. Mark my words: this is just the start. Unlock your cabinet and clean your rifle. It’s now open season on the Jayhawks.



  • @mayay What a laughable, misdirected, and typically misleading response. Your normal nonsense. Newsflash, this isn’t a sex crime. Read the narrative in the story. You do your same deal. You try to extend the circle of the discussion to include something obviously outrageous – referencing a “sex crime” – to create something that isn’t remotely related to the actual facts. By the same logic, I’m sure you equate a fist fight among kids to shooting someone. And I bet a good old fashioned fist fight among kids is outrageous to you as well.

    If someone cannot separate a “sex crime” from the quite noble pastime of enjoying the beautiful female body (and I’m proud that I do), then I can’t help you. It’s the typical leftist tripe.

    In the end, this simply girls running around naked by choice. They weren’t forced to do anything. They made a choice. Not one comment about being “forced.” There are plenty of women that say “no.” So if the hazing was jumping off a bridge, would they have done it? Of course not.

    This story has nothing to do with anyone being physically forced to do anything, which is much different. They weren’t held down against their will, stripped, put in a car, and dropped in the middle of campus.

    The issue is whether they should have been placed in this position in the first place, to even make the choice, which of course they shouldn’t have been.



  • @HighEliteMajor Arguing with you is really hard when you insist on proving all my points for me.



  • @mayjay … as you slither away, looking for more outrage.



  • @mayjay @HighEliteMajor

    Come on guys, dial down the rhetoric and play nice. You both make good points and it would be nice to discuss them without getting personal of having the thread locked down.

    I personally find the entire affair distasteful and stupid considering that hazing has placed fraternities in hot water in the not too distant past and, any action that involves the potential or alleged discrimination of women, will trigger all kinds of responses and most of those are not remotely favorable. None of this bides well for the Athletic Department and seriously tarnishes KU’s reputation.

    It sure looks like the AD under Zenger is really going down in flames, not only with incidents like this, but with the unsatisfactory performance of many if not most of the of the sports programs not called men’s basketball or women’s volleyball. The football program, the primary cash cow, is in shambles and last season ticket sales were down $6M with no hope in sight, men’s baseball has overall and conference losing records, 7 of the 8 members of women’s tennis are foreign as are 8 of 10 women’s golfers. If KU is going to outsource sports and not benefit state or even American athletes why even have them?

    No question that the AD under Zenger’s leadership has failed. He appears to be good at fund raising but even a shiny new stadium will not save a directionless football program.

    Zenger needs to go. if nothing else…do we really want him to select yet another football coach?



  • Hazing… that moment in life when young people who have never been empowered in any way suddenly feel powerful when they make newbies do stupid, often harmful tasks.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    I think you have properly stated the current situation with Zenger and the AD. Zenger is about raising money, but at some point we need that position filled with someone who knows sports… more than business.



  • The story has now made national news.

    On separate news, the SCOTUS has overturned the Sports Gambling Ban and now states and cities will be rushing to implement sports betting as another way to raise money to cover their out of control spending in the same way the lottery was supposed to fund education…right…



  • @JayHawkFanToo You know I’m afraid the School is in the process in taking a really big hit perception wise, - with this FBI probe and then this - plus our previous few years with players - -just not a good look – Worried about how this in the Broad scheme of things will hit our Basketball recruiting



  • Hazing has reached far beyond fraternities and sororities. Every year there are hazing incidents in high schools and colleges, usually involving sports teams or popular “clubs”. The news usually only comes out when there is a tragedy (i.e. someone is seriously hurt or killed). Too often, administrators get focused on the “tradition” part of it and don’t monitor what is actually happening during these events. That leaves the students unsupervised and often leads to these types of things.



  • @JayHawkFanToo Bingo. What is comical is that the same “leaders” that will look to capitalize and spend more money, under the auspices of helping people, will (again) ignore that it has the result of taking money out of the pockets of folks that can’t afford it – see, liquor tax, cig. tax, sales tax, lottery, etc. Certain policies, championed by certain folks, tend to hurt the people those folks rely upon for votes. Quite an amazing dynamic that we see continue to occur.



  • It’s made more of a splash here than anywhere else. I haven’t even been ribbed by kstate fans.



  • @dylans A KSU friend/fan mentioned to me at a grad party over the weekend, that he wondered where he could go to see the cheerleaders. I told him he was insensitive, that I could not believe he would even joke around about such a thing, and that his view of women was horrific.



  • @HighEliteMajor

    Indeed. the City of Olathe/Johnson County increased the appraisal of my home by almost $80K in the least 3 years which is insane; i have appealed but I am not hopeful. I was visiting with a friend of mine who lives in Sarasota, Florida and whose house is appraised at about 80% of mine and her taxes are one third of mine after the homestead credits and Florida does not have a state income tax either, her sales tax is 7% and in Olathe we are now just at 9.5% and you pay an additional 1% in certain development areas such as the shops on 119th and Black Bob. Frankly, I can go across the State line to some of the newer areas in Lee’s Summit, get more house for the money and pay considerably less taxes…Kansas and Johnson county are pricing themselves out of the market.

    As I contemplate retirement I just don’t see where it makes any financial sense to stay in Kansas and particularly Johnson County Kansas fiscal policy is now very bad and Kansas ranks now #40 in tax burden where #1 is the least tax.



  • This thread keeps coming to the top of the feed. I understand that the comments were meant to be said lightheartedly, and I believe they were, so this isn’t to point fingers. In fact, it’s only because I enjoy the KuBuckets community so much that I even bother sharing my opinion. With that being said, in general, if you have had to align yourselves at some point in your career or personal life against the “old boys club” mentality, you become sensitive to even lighthearted comments related to objectivism. Being in a field in academia where women are not empowered, and having a wife in medicine, I see how our perceptions of women shape how they are treated. I’m only super sensitive to these things because I don’t have the privilege not to be. My apologies for bringing us away from the delightful conversations about basketball by those who know much more than I do. What I want to add to the conversation, is that it’s OK to talk about these things, and the discourse (if constructive) is what makes us all better. Perhaps I can use a change of viewpoint to help me out of my sensitive views.



  • @BucknellJayhawk3 I am and will continue to resist oversensitivity. Laughing at things is many times the best medicine.

    Oversensitivity – It is one of the biggest threats to our society today, as we see free speech trampled on in favor of not offending. Free speech is offending. The difference is, one side of the aisle would rather eliminate the speech, while another side would rather foster it.

    "Being in a field of academia where women are not empowered … " Huh? Good grief. Ask our former chancellor.

    America, now, in 2018 is all about merit. There is no glass ceiling to anyone.

    If folks ask that no one be treated unfairly, that will never happen. Life ain’t fair.

    Real “power” is not worrying about what others think and say. Real “power” is doing, and taking control of one’s own destiny. Real power is taking advantage of the unlimited opportunities that this country offers, and to stop whining about every perceived slight. Start there first and then work backward.

    Look at this picture. She is empowered, isn’t she? She’s a PHD, right? – now, some of you, just try to laugh. It really helps. alt text



  • The most encouraging thing about the future of America is that the people who gave themselves a 350 year head start are not going to continue to be the ones who make the rules about the starting line.



  • @mayjay Oooooh, you got me again!



  • Having a female chancellor (I’m assuming that’s what you are referring to, but correct me if I’m wrong) does not mean that the old boys club mentality is dispelled, right? Cultural shifts can take a while, especially at institutions which offer tenured positions; think generationally. Hopefully there was progress made, I think we can both agree on that.

    Totally agree- life ain’t fair and oversensitivity is a problem affecting our society. We need people like you who are passionate about their freedom of speech! You implied I am one of those trying to “eliminate” your freedom speech but I’ve already mentioned I encourage the discourse. We should also all have awareness of what we share to our communities and what privileges we have. By privilege I am not just talking about sex or race. Even if we have the privilege not to concern ourselves with certain issues facing society, it doesn’t mean those issues in society don’t exist, right? Community leaders (even of small online message boards) can only lead when they understand the society they act in, otherwise they are just members without any meaningful influence.

    Not too sure about the picture of the PhD costume, but perhaps it provided some people the joy you intended it to?


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