Ranking of college bball coaches
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https://thebiglead.com/2018/04/10/top-college-basketball-coaches-rankings/
Self at 6 seems a little low, and Wright at 1 seems high, but Izzo at 2 is ridiculous. I’d put Self a notch above Izzo and Cal, especially after this last Final Four appearance.
With emphasis on recent results mentioned in the beginning of the article, not sure at all why Izzo is that high. (I think the author is high…)
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Among currents?
I hate Coach K, because he gets the favorable entertainment value whistle, but he has to be at Number 1. He has 5 rings, the most wins, did it in a tough conference, and he still matched Self step for step in moves and counter moves at K’s age. It amazing.
Wright is my number 2. Wright proved it on the floor against Self this past season. He is too good for Self, unless Self gets better and adopts Jay’s better mouse trap. Even if Jay can’t recruit enough trifectates and Self beats him, Jay will be better. Even if Self wins another ring with 20-25 trifectation ball, which seems an impossibility to me now, Wright has changed the game and he is who will be being imitated. He took the innovation crown from Self, who had worn it a decade. Jay has also done what he has done at a mid major. Self is the greater genius of basketball, but Jay is the better basketball coach. I can’t tell you how that pains me to say it. Jay could not win with what Self has won with. Jay would have been .600 and no rings tops with what Self has coached with. Self has taken the 2012 team and the 2017-18 team to Final Fours other coaches, including Jay, would not have won a conference title with. But Jay figured out how to win rings. Jay figured out, while at a mid major. Jay figured out that 3 > 2 and then devised a way to be a champion twice in three years with it. Winning rings is finally the test of a coach. Can he pick a winning scheme and then when he has all the pieces required can he coach it to a championship. Period. Jay has done it twice. Jay > Bill…for now.
Self is number 3. I’m torn about not making him number 1. No one, including Jay, has had to face an apparent embargo as long as Self has appeared to have to. The man has proven he can beat anyone in big games, but Jay. And no one has won at Self’s clip for as long as Self has. But rings are the ultimate test. If they aren’t, then stop accepting invitations to play in the NCAA, and just start recruiting after conference season.
The rest of the coaches are coaching pygmies in comparison.
Next.
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How about we get the D back in the realm of a top 10 defense, which as long time Self watchers know, is a key piece of how his earlier KU teams would create big separation by the 4th period, so guys named Spoonie, Matt, Niko, & Tyler could get in the game.
I dont buy the insinuation or suggestion that anything’s wrong with ku’s offense, he’s shown great adaptability on that side of the ball.
But defensively, WITH the current rules, we aren’t getting it done (see top10 defenses, none named “KU”). How much more proof do yall need other than seeing unknown cats playing for WashSt, ASU, come in and blast us in AFH? I can still derisively imitate that loser BGreene in the locker room parroting what Self had hammered into that squads brains about “getting away from our defensive principles”. Verbal regurgitation doesn’t count. And this team unable to get any sort of stops, or apply any disruption to narrow the gap vs Nova, is squarely why we lost this one. Talk about Jay Wright—did anybody see his team limit KU to not even a single 3att for how many minutes that first half?
Self keeps preaching, some kids get it, some don’t/won’t/can’t. Self isn’t the one out there playing/executing/NOTexecuting. Players have to perform all the categories that Self’s system teaches.
Self is Top3, imho, with Krzyzewski likely #1. Why not stick Roy there as well? Self pulled a Final4 rabbit outta somewhere with this year’s team. Fix the D.
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List is clickbait and a joke. Archie Miller is already at 15? Lol.
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Archie Miller is the best of the next generation of coaches. In the next few years he will have Indiana among the top 10 programs.
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@chriz Izzo getting to the F4 is his claim to fame (7). The overwhelming # of losses in the semifinal (5) doesn’t seem to bother anyone (except MSU fans; but it delights UMich) the way Bill’s record in the E8 has created a bad rep.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Archie Miller is the best of the next generation of coaches. In the next few years he will have Indiana among the top 10 programs.
Only if he can recruit. He definitely can coach but recruiting at IU is a strange thing. The fans are OBSESSED with “recruiting the state”. However kids today haven’t seen IU relevant in their lifetime. The in state kids feel pressure to be the savior of IU basketball and a lot opt to go elsewhere. Romeo Langford is in this situation.
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- K
- Roy
- Self
- Wright
- Izzo
- Cal
Then, the rest.
If I could take one coach now, moving forward, easily coach Self.
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@JayHawkFanToo I’ll believe it when it happens. But he isn’t a top 15 coach yet.
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@HighEliteMajor Do you really think K is the best coach right now? He couldnt get 5 great athletes to play man to man this year. He has top 1 or 2 rosters EVERY year and doesnt do much. I really think his best days are behind him and he is basically a recruiter only. And with Capel leaving the recruiting may dip too.
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@BigBad You can’t count out a coach that has 12 final fours and 5 championships, regardless of what happened last year.
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@dylans Really? When exactly is a resume irrelevant? How about when he is 90? Age is a factor. The dude is 71.
John Wooden was 64 when he retired. Henry Iba was 65. Dean Smith coached his last game at 66, Bob Knight at 67, and Jim Calhoun at 69. . Even the famous names who have stuck with the job into their 70s—Phog Allen, Ray Meyer, Eddie Sutton, Lou Henson, Jerry Tarkanian, Steve Fisher, and Lefty Driesell—generally haven’t lasted long once they got there, as all those listed except Henson retired before their 73rd birthday.
Go look at Dukes talent level, seedings, and results the past 5 years. K is done.
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@BigBad lol. His roster was as flawed as KU’s. I hate K, but he’s one heck of a coach. I had hoped you would come up with a great argument to add points to hate on Duke with.
(I dont’ want to look at the seeds as I’d have to acknowledge that KU only made one final four with 3 or 4 one seeds in that time frame also)
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@dylans KU gets one seeds with HALF the talent of Duke. I really dont understand how people say Cal cant coach but K can. Duke has the same amount of talent as UK basically every single year.
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In all fairness, 2 of Coach K’s titles happened over a quarter of a century ago and some, particularly the last one, came gift wrapped courtesy of the refs and he has had a number of early big time upset loses in the tournament. In this century he has won only 4 regular ACC titles even when recently he has had better rosters than even Cal. You can say that all things consider and in spite of his titles, he has underachieved.
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@BigBad @JayHawkFanToo This is all pretty fluid. One thing I think we all agree, is that if we could have one coach now, moving forward, it would be coach Self. My personal ranking includes the recent body of work with deference to the coach’s overall accomplishments. Last 30 years altogether? Coach K. Last 15 years? Coach Roy. Last five years? Coach Wright.
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This discussion is only possible because Brad Stevens is in the NBA.
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Coaching a bunch of OAD’s as K or Cal has done compared to coaching 3 or 4 year guys like Self has done reveals that both are great coaches. To get 18 and 19 year olds to win championships, however tainted, means your coaching chops are right up there. But getting juniors and seniors with enough talent to also get drafted means Self ranks right there with them too.
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@BigBad Did you know that Forrest Allen was forced into retirement by the government? At the time 70 year olds weren’t employable by the state. He was super pissed about not being Wilt’s coach. I am too, KU would’ve had another championship or two.
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@dylans I literally never heard that. Absolutely absurd and a multimillion dollar lawsuit today.
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@dylans Yep, imply that Brad Stevens is so far better than any other ncaa coach in the land, including coaches that have won multiple NCs? And he’s tearing up the nba too, he’s so good.
After his Celtics chpt, lets see if UNC or Duke goes after Stevens when K or Roy retire, if he’s such a fashionable pick. Throw in Mark Few and Gregg Marshall too, since we’re incl midmajor guys now…
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@Ralster Dude, it’s okay. If it wasn’t clear I’ll outright say it, my unwavering opinion is: if Brad Stevens had taken a job at a blue blood instead of the NBA he’d be the best coach in college basketball.
I offered it up in levity, mostly because I don’t want to form supporting arguments as to why K is the best coach. It’s too easy. Hell he has 7 more final fours and 2 more championships than Villanova or 3 less final fours than KU has all time and 2 more NCAA championships than KU as well. Good grief that’s painful to type. It’s much more fun to hypothesize that Brad Stevens would be better.
No offense to our beloved Bill, he’s fantastic. Best coach Kansas has had since Phog. Not a coach in ncaa ball that I currently desire more than our own Coach Self. Phog was so good he won football games at a .622 clip too. (I honestly think Bill could do better than any of the football coaches since Mangino.)
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@Ralster I would love to see him back in the college game. Would probably take $10M+ to do so. And a guaranteed contract regardless of fired with cause or not.
Stevens is ahead of his time and is the perfect mix of Xs and Os combined with statistical analysis and recruiting ability. The guy could have been the greatest NCAA coach of all time if he didn’t want to be in the NBA. I think he would have stayed in the college game if the Blue Blood programs weren’t all in a great scenario of pay for play players and solid coaches. I don’t see him coming back to the college game at this point though unless he takes an unexpected tumble in the NBA.
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@Kcmatt7 The recent indictments and all the fallout probably make Stevens quite happy he doesn’t have to worry about this type of crap. Coaches “declaring” for the NBA almost universally cite not having to recruit as a major advantage. I cannot see him willingly going back to it.
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On the other hand, NBA coaches have to deal with millionaire, moody divas that make more money than they do and can get them fired.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
On the other hand, NBA coaches have to deal with millionaire, moody divas that make more money than they do and can get them fired.
They get fired, they still collect millions for not working. Then they get another job. I would rather face that than greedy families of kids screwing up everything I spend all year busting my ass to accomplish.
