What’s up with Lagerald?



  • Anyone else noticing a lack of effort? Seems like he’s had a lot of careless plays.



  • :baggage_claim:



  • He had better numbers than Saturday, finished with 6 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 rebounds. I’ll just be honest, I don’t think the effort was anything special tonight from anyone. I think we knew we didn’t have to play great to win and being senior night. Hopefully it means we rested at least lol.



  • My position is that Garrett is the better defender, passer and dribbler. Garrett deserves more trust come tourney time. Still, we need Vick, obviously.



  • Regardless of Vick’s stat line, he seems to be on the end of many bad plays…or maybe I am just hypersensitive to his miscues because the highlights have all but disappeared. Hope he can find his confidence again.



  • Let me start by saying that Vick is one of my favorite players and I have been watching his career with great anticipation since he was a freshmen. He has amazing leaping ability and must be one of the most athletically gifted Jayhawks in the past 10 years. His shooting stroke is beautiful.

    But then he’s had off nights and lost consistency. He’s disappeared and looked less interested. There are long stretches where the offense doesn’t move through him or even include him, except for the occasional lob and jam (which are almost always spectacular).

    But more of a concern than the recent inconsistency is the body language.

    Body language sounds subjective, so I will provide Exhibit A and Exhibit B for your consideration:

    EXHIBIT A: Lagerald distant and disconnected 0_1519595552624_#14 4.jpg

    EXHIBIT B: Watch the team entering TT locker room – each player celebrating as they high-five Hudy. And then watch how Vick walks down the hall and greets Hudy…

    http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article202007479.html

    C’mon Lagerald!! We need you! If you are at the top of your game, there isn’t a team that can beat us!



  • @bskeet wow :100: right you are.



  • Man…

    That is telling…

    But what?

    We do need him. Any sort of deep run requires everyone at the top of their game.



  • Wow- hmmmmm He seems very distant and not a happy camper, and yes doesn’t seem real jazzed up on court.

    Meanwhile garret had a very SOLID game last night



  • Oh my dudes Marcus Garret is my new favorite I bought his jersey this year. Will be a great compliment to our loaded roster of shooters next year. Hope whatever is messing with Vick fixes itself by tournament time.



  • He’s a sophomore, right? In the Self development process he’s about where we’d expect a sophomore in my opinion.



  • He’s a junior and he is the type of player Self rides HARD. He has all the athletic tools and lacks on the one that doesn’t take talent, effort.



  • @BigBad I wonder if he suffers from depression. It might be the on/off switch involved in his opt in/zone out game. But I wondered last night why Self had him in late in the 2nd half when Newman was being more aggressive and was much more careful with the ball. If LGV has a switch he can’t control, he and the staff have to learn how to recognize it. (It took me a decade, however.)



  • Bosthawk said:

    Meanwhile garret had a very SOLID game last night

    Self in the post game said Garrett was one of our two best players last night.



  • BShark said:

    Bosthawk said:

    Meanwhile garret had a very SOLID game last night

    Self in the post game said Garrett was one of our two best players last night.

    His defense was absolutely terrific last night. We get 3 more years of this kid too.



  • @BeddieKU23 Yep. Great on ball defense all game. And his stat line is a perfect glue guy/stat stuffer: 11/4/3/3/1



  • BShark said:

    @BeddieKU23 Yep. Great on ball defense all game. And his stat line is a perfect glue guy/stat stuffer: 11/4/3/3/1

    If we get that stat line by Jr & Sr year we’ll be happy. I am putting this out now, he will be one of our 3 best players his last 2 seasons. Hopefully he lives up to that



  • @BeddieKU23 I said something similar and I fully expect it to be the case. Once he improves his shot a bit and has more freedom on offense to play his game watch out.



  • We have already seen it more lately with him getting to the rim. He still doesn’t feel comfortable stopping for his midrange jump shot which was a killer for him in HS. To be fair Self probably doesn’t want him doing that this year when we have so many deadly trey ballers. But when he is a starter and a huge part of the team it should be a big part of his game.



  • Up to 10 made 3’s on the year… Still making 62% of 2’s on the year is an important stat. Very good finisher around the rim



  • I’ve coached my kids up until 8th grade and no matter the grade or gender there are some kids who just try harder once they make a basket. They self worth as a basketball player lives and dies on their offensive output. Self usually does a good job breaking these types and other times guys just do not change(see Brannen Greene). I’m seeing a bit of this in Vick.



  • @BigBad You could generally tell if Selden was going to have a good game or not based on if he was engaged early and hit his first couple shots.



  • Turning this detective work over to those with far better eyesight…Is Lagerald also ‘MIA’ during the team locker room celebration?

    https://www.facebook.com/KansasBasketball/videos/10156175879234532/

    What I have surmised is that Vick is an exceedingly introverted player on a team with perhaps the most extroverted leader in modern KU history. Throw in Vick’s early season success and the expectations of others and the pressure may be just too much to bear. Contrast this scenario with Garrett who performed mostly under the radar this season, whose early play likely lowered fan expectations and now his incremental improvement each game is rightfully applauded.

    Two polar opposite trajectories. In the after game interview last night, the only irritation I sensed in Self’s voice was over the issue of social media. Self appeared to go to lengths to downplay it. While some players are wired to take the (nameless, faceless) negatives and turn them into a productive chip (e.g., Devonte), others fold under the weight of them.

    I do not believe it is a lack of caring on Vick’s part. I believe he is likely more disappointed in himself than anyone else can imagine and the images we are seeing are more about that than disinterest. If I could wave the proverbial magic wand, it would be to eliminate all external and internal distractions (Vick has created for himself and others have created for him) and re-find the quirky, socially awkward but endearing, phenomenal talent that he is. We certainly need Vick in March but honestly we need him far beyond that.



  • @CRH107 PHOF! Excellent post IMO.



  • I wonder if there is an inherent jealousy by Vick vs Dtae. Look back to the first of the season and Vick got a lot of Coach talking about him and what a great player he was. As Dtae deferred to Frank last year, maybe Vick just isn’t wired the same way Dtae is and took the focus on Dtae as something other than it was. Dtae was in charge deservedly so and Vick realized he wasn’t good enough and therefore just stopped trying. Futile thinking for sure. Then he was dropped out of starting 5. Or is it because Vick knows with his play being off and hardly on that he sees his draft status lowered and is just not sure where he is in the whole scheme of things. I hope he gets his mind right. That video of him after Tech win in the hallway was sad as he looked like he just pushed Hudy away from him.



  • @BeddieKU23 i love watching Garrett play. I find myself watching him instead of the play on both offense and defense. He’s just so active on both sides of the ball, and he has sneaky quick speed. That drive to the basket was just flat amazing.



  • Right now, Vick is sticking out like a sore thumb. His energy level is different from the rest. His body language is different from the rest. His level of execution is different from the rest.

    We have all shared many things over this season trying to figure it out and I’m not sure we are the better for it. It just doesn’t seem like we are ever going to know exactly what is going on with Vick, but just have to accept that there is something going on. Obviously, that is the case. It can’t be hidden.

    All I can do is remain hopeful. This team has dealt with a lot of issues this year and seems to be on the rise at the right time! #14 is behind us! So… what is this team’s goal moving forward? I’m hopeful we will see this answer through our animated team captain, Devonte!

    Let’s try to remain positive on Vick and hope he is able to resolve whatever it is that is separating him negatively from the pack. And let’s remember we have HOF’r Coach Self to continue to work on this. We all know Bill knows Vick is having something going on.



  • @drgnslayr I’m not sure what to think about it. Is he on the outs with a team clique…or is there something deeper going on? Maybe it’s Garrett breathing down his neck. I dunno.



  • KUSTEVE said:

    @BeddieKU23 i love watching Garrett play. I find myself watching him instead of the play on both offense and defense. He’s just so active on both sides of the ball, and he has sneaky quick speed. That drive to the basket was just flat amazing.

    I find myself doing the same thing.



  • @drgnslayr

    I agree we need to stay positive with him because we need him at his best when it counts. We seem to remember his negative plays more then his positives. Vick should be more consistent by now, his 3 game stretch before the Tech/Texas games was the best he’s looked since the non-conference. So did the motivation wear off that Self had pushed him towards? Vick is still the missing piece to what seems to be 6 and even Silvio (7) guys who have completely bought into what’s ahead… Can KU survive with a squeaky wheel?



  • I’m not reading anything into either video. He was talking to Svi down the hall–I doubt Svi wanted to be with someone out of sync with the team during his last walk to a celebration in the AFH locker room. Not embracing Hudy has lots of possibilities foremost among them that we have been told he is shy. He eyes the camera as he arrives, and is probably really self-conscious about hugging her, especially if he isn’t a hugging person naturally. Haven’t you all known people like that, especially young people not comfortable hugging adults of the opposite sex? Svi barely touches her, too.

    The locker room video is too short to be evidence of anything. He could have been sitting down in back, he could have been staying off camera because he was in the buff, he could have been in the john, he might have been out in the hall. Being a sullen nonparticpant is one possibility, but there is no evidence of it. Just my take.



  • Looks pretty happy and engaged here (seeing teeth and thinking that’s even his arm wrapped around Dok):

    http://ljworld.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge_remote.asp?source=jsapi&remoteimageid=22201596



  • LaGerald is by definition okay, but maybe not optimizing right now.

    If he weren’t okay, Self would have pulled him from the starting rotation again.

    As Self might say, LaGerald may be going through some stuff, but he’s getting the job done in his floor game, or the Magnificent Seven would not be B12 Conference Champions!!!

    KU just won the outright B12 title with him as a starter.

    LaCobre is alright with moi.



  • Garrett is terrific and I love the potential. But Lagerald knows the system and is poised to be a leader next year… maybe the leader. So he’s probably going through the coach-conceived crucible as someone mentioned above… and there may be something else that is digging at him. Unfortunately, it’s all speculation.

    I’m certain he has the talent to make it to the NBA. Just hope he can get his emotional IQ aligned with his extraordinary basketball skills.



  • @BeddieKU23 Me too – in fact I watched the game again on replay this morning, and pretty much just kept my eyes on both Vick when he was in, and Garrett… Watched Garrett set pics watched Garrett hustle and block out and play defense and get rebounds and drive… Vick had some nice plays too, but Garrett seems to never take a minute off



  • @mayjay

    I am with you. I did not see anything on the videos that tells me there is an issue. None of the players hugged Hudy, only had high/low fives while running all excited. Svi and Vick walked in long afterwards a lot more calmed and both had almost identical reactions to Hudy.

    Maybe Vick is just shy and introverted and is not partial to PDAs? I know a lot of people that are that way. Perhaps we are seeing more than there really is?



  • Garret has a poker face and is all business on the court. Also, his offense is starting to come around and that dunk he had was a thing of beauty.



  • @bskeet Do you see any sign of any leadership potential with Vick? That said, a kid can be a non-leader and be fine, even as senior. I love his skills. It is obvious that something else is going on.



  • @drgnslayr Speaking of our team leader, DG, did you notice him referencing a chip on his shoulder and one for the whole team this year? I can’t remember where I read or heard it. But he definitely brought up that the team felt like people didn’t believe they could do it and that put a chip on their shoulders that has motivated them late in the conference season.

    @HighEliteMajor I think Self talked about this being a pretty quiet team outside of Devonte. Pretty much why he HAS to be the leader. No one else talks. Hopefully some of the guys redshirted or coming in next year can find a voice pretty quick otherwise it might be all quiet on historic court next year. Devonte came in chattering and smiling. It’s just his personality. There are other ways to lead. Frank lead without saying much, but I don’t see that yet from Vick. Doesn’t mean it’s not possible. But it’s not in his skill set yet.

    If anything, Garret could be the quiet leader just because his effort is so steady. Reliability is a wholly underrated trait of good leadership.



  • @JayHawkFanToo I love how much Garrett is looking to attack. Frankly, I’m excited how much the guards in general are aggressively attacking the rim.



  • @HawkChamp

    After the Italy trip I though that Garret might end up being the steal of the class.:thumbsup:



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    @bskeet Do you see any sign of any leadership potential with Vick? That said, a kid can be a non-leader and be fine, even as senior. I love his skills. It is obvious that something else is going on.

    I said this Saturday after the game. - In the locker room I posed a question from a pic that was taken of the team around the championship trophy - - everybody all right there - - only Vick just looks seemed kind of distant in that picture – kind of did-connected from the other team members. - -Something is going on with him just not sure what. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @BeddieKU23

    I don’t see us going too far in March without Vick bringing a lot more game. His play is vital because he is a starter and has been all year. Being a starter all year makes him a key. And if he starts playing aggressive our entire team will skip up an entire gear!



  • @benshawks08

    I heard that! Amazing how even a little chip with a Kansas team increases our production, big time!

    2012… we didn’t have a single McDs AA and made it to the finals!

    I think it is pretty rare that the team who wants it most doesn’t win the NC. I think 2012 was that example. I felt we wanted it more but UK had a team full of NBA players and the unibrow was just too much for us to handle. Heck… look at him in the NBA… no one can handle him!

    And UK didn’t blow us out… we actually had a chance to make a run late and pull off the miracle!



  • @benshawks08 Devonte’ mentioned it in his Sr. speech.



  • @dylans So did Svi right before he thanked the fans for supporting them through everything and filling AFH.



  • drgnslayr said:

    @BeddieKU23

    I don’t see us going too far in March without Vick bringing a lot more game. His play is vital because he is a starter and has been all year. Being a starter all year makes him a key. And if he starts playing aggressive our entire team will skip up an entire gear!

    I’m torn on that statement. I’m a big fan of Vick’s game but this season for him has been really disappointing to watch to be honest. If Vick was anywhere as consistent as our top 3 we’d be the best offensive team in the country. I really do believe that because the athletic ability that Vick has is in the Top 5% of all D-1 but he doesn’t always use it.

    For example take Zhaire Smith of Texas Tech. In my opinion pound for pound one of the 5 best athletes in the country but what elevates his ability is his effort and drive to make plays. Smith impacted the game against KU last Saturday in a lot of ways and we really didn’t have an answer for him. Vick was on a string trying to guard him. I was thinking half the time this is what Vick should be for KU. This is what I’m imagining Self has been trying to push Lagerald towards for the past year. Maybe that’s still a year away from happening and I’ve put expectations on him he’s not ready to reach yet. I asked the question earlier this season when Vick was knee deep in a downward spiral, is Vick not as good as we think he is? I’m still struggling with that question.

    I don’t think if we lose in the tourney the blame will be on Vick. I think if we are in a position to lose its going to be a team breakdown. Not rebounding as a team, a poor 3 point shooting game, lack of defensive effort. The most likely individual that has the biggest impact on KU’s chances is Doke in foul trouble which limits his minutes. Everything changes with him on the floor.

    If Vick gets 8-10 a night in the tourney he improves our chances of outscoring teams and putting less pressure on every other aspect of the game. I do agree that we cannot have off games because we only go 7 deep regularly. I’m really hopeful Vick picks the end of the season to finish strong. We’ll see what he’s got to give



  • @drgnslayr This team reminds me of the 2012 team. Not so much in the way they play but the way they can get stops and come from behind. 2012 was better overall defensively this team can be more explosive offensively.



  • HighEliteMajor said:

    @bskeet Do you see any sign of any leadership potential with Vick? That said, a kid can be a non-leader and be fine, even as senior. I love his skills. It is obvious that something else is going on.

    It’s a good question. I can’t say that I’ve seen any, but at the same time, there are leadership qualities that might not be visible to fans. So maybe he possesses leadership qualities that are not externally evident.

    It’s also possible he hasn’t been given leadership opportunities that we can see.

    I try to recall Frank in his early years and Devonte before this year and think of what attributes were present then that signaled they would be the players they became in their final season…

    I think they played their position well… but I think the surprise that people have regarding Devonte’s success is evidence that few could see what he would become until he had the opportunity.

    I hope Vick can do what he needs to do now to get the opportunity next year.



  • @BeddieKU23

    Yeah… I didn’t want to just say that our potential March loss is all on Vick. It wouldn’t be.

    But if we go down, good chance we have several players having a bad game, and as of right now, it looks like we can expect one of them to be Vick.

    I hope that changes.


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