NCAA Corruption Investigation - Kansas Identified?
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@HighEliteMajor Actually, that is the fan in me. The lawyer in there is wishing he still practiced so he could get a piece of this. Fortunately, the fan is still in control.
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@mayjay Looks like it was Feb/Mar of 2016. So he would still have been a recruit.
Still, to me, this is such a small amount it won’t be a big deal. Sexton’s dad took $10k and still got to play basically all season. NCAA penalty was like 5 games or something weak like that.
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EJ being taking the most (of a KU player) that we know of is kind of hilarious. But yeah assuming it was after he was done at KU then it shouldn’t matter. This is from 2015, so he had graduated.
@Kcmatt7 we are talking about Elijah Johnson, he took 15k.
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They actually don’t even list EJ in the article but he is in the documents. That’s what makes me think it was after he left Kansas. If he was at KU even possibly taking 15k, that’d make Forde so delirious he couldn’t contain himself.
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BShark said:
They actually don’t even list EJ in the article but he is in the documents. That’s what makes me think it was after he left Kansas. If he was at KU even possibly taking 15k, that’d make Forde so delirious he couldn’t contain himself.
where’s the full document?
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The document I saw EJ on was the balance sheet . “as of December 2015”. (I’m not an accountant) but that is after he left KU, could that be a remaining balance for over 2 years? I doubt it, they would have written it off as a “bad loan” right?
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@BeddieKU23 https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html?__twitter_impression=true
As much as you can see of it is there.
Malik Waayns is on the loan list so there are definitely guys well past playing college hoops on there.
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@Kcmatt7 Truthfully, the federal indictments don’t bother me. Nor the federal investigation, for that matter. That is “weak af” in my opinion, if I’m tracking with the “af” portion of that. NCAA rules violations concern me.
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@mihawk They didn’t list EJ as receiving the payments before he turned pro whereas they did with other players on the list that are now pros. You know Forde would be all over that. Oddly enough Fred Van Vleet did apparently. But just 1k.
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@HighEliteMajor A lot of this appears to be the parents of players taking loans/cash advances while the player is still in school. Thankfully Josh is the only KU player on the list in that regard. We found out about Cliff and nipped it in the bud so my assumption would be that KU didn’t know Apples took that $2,700 but maybe I’m overly optimistic.
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Kevin Knox is on the list, I wonder if he will play tomorrow…
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@BShark Maybe optimism … but the question that tests integrity is what if KU found out after the fact? And then did nothing. Did not self-report.
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BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html?__twitter_impression=true
As much as you can see of it is there.
Malik Waayns is on the loan list so there are definitely guys well past playing college hoops on there.
Looks like my work browser is blocking it, will try and view it on the phone.
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BShark said:
Kevin Knox is on the list, I wonder if he will play tomorrow…
You already know the answer to that. Same with Bridges and Carter, Sexton
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark Maybe optimism … but the question that tests integrity is what if KU found out after the fact? And then did nothing. Did not self-report.
I say good luck proving that!
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@HighEliteMajor Lol even still. These amount wouldn’t have vacated wins.
Unless Bill or a coach orchestrated the loans through Miller, I don’t expect us to get hit with anything based on this report alone.
The report is underwhelming, even if you include NCAA violations that could be put on schools from it.
Finally, the NCAA needs to be careful right here. If they try to make a point and crush all of these schools, that might be all of the P5 needs to just up and leave the NCAA and start pocketing all the money themselves.
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@HighEliteMajor Fortunately, Self’s relationship with JJ was and is good. I was always afraid of a CJ Giles or JR Giddens getting pissed they were forced out and then, out of spite, revealing that they had been taking impermissibles w/o KU knowing. Or worse, fabricating that KU arranged it.
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
@BeddieKU23 https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html?__twitter_impression=true
As much as you can see of it is there.
Malik Waayns is on the loan list so there are definitely guys well past playing college hoops on there.
Looks like my work browser is blocking it, will try and view it on the phone.
Dawkins flipped his entire books.
Xavier head coach Mack responded pretty aggressively: He said: “I have no relationship with Andy Miller or any of his associates. He plays no role in the recruitment of potential student athletes on Xavier’s behalf. Beyond that, our staff has never created a path for him to foster a relationship with any of our student-athletes while enrolled at Xavier. Any suggestion that I or anyone on my staff utilized Andy Miller to provide even the slightest of financial benefits to a Xavier student-athlete is grossly misinformed. We are prepared to cooperate with any and all investigations at any level.”
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Kcmatt7 said:
@HighEliteMajor Lol even still. These amount wouldn’t have vacated wins.
Unless Bill or a coach orchestrated the loans through Miller, I don’t expect us to get hit with anything based on this report alone.
The report is underwhelming, even if you include NCAA violations that could be put on schools from it.
Finally, the NCAA needs to be careful right here. If they try to make a point and crush all of these schools, that might be all of the P5 needs to just up and leave the NCAA and start pocketing all the money themselves.
For a bombshell I’d say KU got out of this pretty well with the extent of it being Apples Jones took $2,700 before Josh turned pro. If there is more later we will find out but you know Yahoo put all they could out there and Forde certainly would mention any KU player. They wouldn’t sit on something this big.
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@Kcmatt7 If the NCAA doesn’t do anything or at least launch an extensive investigation, they leave themselves open to suits by anyone they did punish during this time. Organizations are able to adjudicate stuff with their voluntary members, but the courts are willing to step in when the organization doesn’t follow its own rules or engages in serious favoritism (which this one would be).
I think it is likely there will be a big investigation, lots of hand-wringing, a couple of public punishments for schools with staffers implicated, and then a comprehensive settlement with voluntary monetary penalties for all the schools concerned.
The NCAA will do enough to make sure no previously sanctioned school can sue and force discovery of its enforcement investigations in general, and of the details on this one.
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Did you guys also see that Michael Beasley is mentioned a few times in the docs?
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@mayjay Sounds pretty much spot on.
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@mayjay Right. I’m saying they need to slap everyone on the wrist, but don’t try to make everyone the example. They need to find that sweet spot of a hefty fine, but probably no sanctions. They can put everyone on a “probation” period.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@HighEliteMajor Meh. Big nothingburger as far as KU is concerned still. That was about as vague as it possibly could be. It gave out all of the hard information that it gathered listing Bridges (YAY!), Abedayo (YAY!), Smith Jr , Fultz, Wendell Carter (YAY!)
But still no KU player. Mentions KU as possibly, but again, no hard facts. Not even a player they mention.
And all of it doesn’t matter if KU didn’t know the player had received payments.
I read an article where Josh Jackson and/or his mom had received a 7,500 loan,
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Hawk8086 said:
@Kcmatt7 In one, JJ’s mom was mentioned.
So how many does it take? - - you say one. - so does it need to be 2 - -5 - -10 - -20? - -how many does it take?
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@jayballer73 Um, link? I’ve only seen $2,700 cited.
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At least this isn’t really a KU problem We already knew agents preyed on players and their families.
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The NBA is the one causing this with the OAD imo. So, the NCAA needs to start thinking outside of the box on rules to prevent this. Idk if maybe they require players to graduate or else they have to pay back the entire amount? Does that help? Can they themselves offer players loans up to a certain dollar amount per year? What about paying players based on academics? Every semester you complete, you get paid $2k. If they offer these incentives, they can make the punishments more harsh I think.
They need to make it an environment that players and parents don’t feel like they need to go to agents to get extra cash. I’m not sure exactly how to do that, but there are brighter minds than me that could help to solve the problem.
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@Kcmatt7 the hypocrisy is with the NCAA Tournament. There is no way that the NCAA is going to punish all of these teams to the point of them missing the tourney… they would miss out on a TON of revenue with the best programs in the country not going to the tournament.
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I just gonna be honest I’d be pretty ticked if we had to vacate wins because JJs mom took $2,700. This is an interesting road because the NCAA hasn’t penalized the kid several tiems if they had no knowledge of it example Cam Newton’s dad getting 200K with no punishment. To make it the schools responsibility to keep not only try and keep track of the kids but what’s their parents are doing is a little crazy. Make it illegal for agents to speak to anyone related or the kids themselves. The AAU circuit and these agents are most of the issues with what’s happening IMO.
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BShark said:
@jayballer73 Um, link? I’ve only seen $2,700 cited.
ya, my bad - -your right - -it was 2,700 so many figures in this thing. - - There is no way the NCAA can hand down sanctions o all these schools - this thing will blow up in the NCAA face.
Can you imagine if they penalize or try to penalize all these schools. - - Kentucky - - N Carolina - - Michigan State - - - Louisville - - KU- - - and so on and so on and so on - -going to be interesting what ends up happening - -this could be the straw that breaks the /camel’s back ( NCAA ) where all schools back away from the NCAA. - this thing I think is still going to take a lot of time to wrap up. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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This report is some crazy transparency into the underworld. Without the details of everything how can the NCAA do anything.
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Guys this will blow over because a Duke and Mich St player is mentioned. So the media will fawn over the condescending words of K and the tough words of Izzo. THey will both blame the dirty agents and not players or families. If this was just UK or Louisville or even us it would be a whole different ball game.
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If they question Apples its not like she has to talk. They have zero power to do anything. Her son no longer is in College or has anything at stake to risk talking
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@mihawk Agreed. And if you pissed off these schools enough, what is keeping them from starting their own P5 tournament and making ALL of the revenue?
The more I think, the more I am becoming a fan of the P5 conferences to just start their own organization. They can privatize the athletics departments 100% and keep Title IX out of the discussion. I think it would solve a lot of the current NCAA problems. The NCAA is hypocritical in the fact that they don’t give 2 craps about the education the athletes receive. Only the money the athletes generate. They don’t hold schools accountable for anything academically (as proven by UNC). How a player like Duvall can academically qualify at a school like Duke blows my mind. They couldn’t care less. And their lies the problem.
The NCAA Mission Statement: “Our purpose is to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount.”
The NCAA is not even following it’s own mission statement. Which is why people do not respect them.
Let’s call a spade a spade and privatize revenue producing college athletics so players can get paid in a transparent way since it is happening anyways.
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BeddieKU23 said:
If they question Apples its not like she has to talk. They have zero power to do anything. Her son no longer is in College or has anything at stake to risk talking
“I never gave any money to Josh and never paid it back.”
Seems easy…
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Unless Dawkins or Miller or whoever provided the money to Apples is going to detail how the situation went down, the NCAA gets the testamony explaining it, questions them, questions Apples and everyone comes clean what can they do? This goes for everyone listed.
Its an eye opener seeing just how much agents were getting involved with kids and families. There is enough information here to know things need to change.
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Also remember Darnell Jackson took money from a booster and simply had to repay it. $2,700 is pretty much nothing. Doubt KU will have to vacate wins because of this.
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@BeddieKU23 @BShark Here’s the other side of the coin, if it happened before JJ was even on campus or committed to KU. Is that didn’t the NCAA clearing house clear him after that?
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kjayhawks said:
@BeddieKU23 @BShark Here’s the other side of the coin, if it happened before JJ was even on campus or committed to KU. Is that didn’t the NCAA clearing house clear him after that?
Proving when the money was exchanged is key. Apples doesn’t have to do anything, they are not privy to her personal information. She has nothing to admit because there is nothing on the line for her son, he’s not in College.
If this was a situation where the NCAA is aware that Apples received money and Josh was still in school then you have a situation (like UK, Duke, Alabama, etc face with current players listed). Those families would want to cooperate you would think.
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@kjayhawks That’s basically based on them submitting transcripts, checking boxes and then literally, saying you didn’t accept any money.
I was cleared in less than two weeks when I applied in HS. Kind of a joke tbh.
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@BeddieKU23 Duke, UK and Bama almost HAVE to sit those guys now right?
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Duke, UK and Bama almost HAVE to sit those guys now right?
Bill/KU would. Doesn’t mean others will do the right thing.
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So Izzo had dinners with Dawkins and potentially multiple players paid. I really thought he was clean.
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@dylans Bill has over and over when any question arises. Even when Bragg was innocent last season, he sat him.
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@Kcmatt7 The NCAA should ONLY be a governing body and a regulator to the P5. But right now they are making money off of all these athletes. That’s the problem. If any of these schools are punished, then it will have a negative effect on the NCAA bottom line.
I am 100% behind the P5 leaving the NCAA in the dust, but I do think there would need to be a separate governing body (that does not profit from the schools) to regulate.
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@BShark link?
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BShark link?
It’s in the Yahoo story. Also “Villanova coaches” that one doesn’t shock me one bit…
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So we have a date of Feb 1 2016 for the Apples advance of 1,700. He was an unsigned prospect at the time. He did not sign with KU until the spring.
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@mihawk I think it would be an organization comprised of the 100 schools. Basically, what I would envision, a Senate style of deal. Every school has 1 representative. They decide things based on votes. Every school has equal say. No separate TV deals like the LH Network. A United Athletics Programs of America. This will come after the Declaration of NCAAdependece is written. The NCAA will attempt to stop this by declaring war and cutting off supplies sent to the schools. Only to find that the schools, by bonding together, became stronger than the British, I mean NCAA.
They do say history repeats itself…
