Question for the Sages: How Did KU End Up -3 on TOs Against a Pressing Team?

  • KU made a lot of TOs the first half. I watched closely and could figure out many of the adjustments KU made that helped it stop making as many turnovers the second half.


    What defensive adjustments did KU make defensively that made WVU make so many more turnovers the second half?

  • KU had 7 TOs in the first 7 minutes of the game and 6 the rest of the way (33 minutes).

  • @jaybate-1.0 They got tired and missed a few opportunities. And the final dagger in the heart came when Huggy said ‘Boys it’s up to you, I don’t know what else to do.’ Now l’ve done a little coaching in my day and would never say that to any team, even if it was true.

  • The above responses tell how we held our TOs down the second half, but the question of the post is how did KU’s defense change the second half to force WVU into so many more TOS?

    Was it increased intensity, or some defensive adjustments?

    I saw much more switching by KU defenders on interior cuts the second half.

    Anyone see anything else?

    It’s absolutely amazing to see a visiting team make fewer TOs than pressing WVU!!!

    How did Self and his Hawks pull this off?!

    It’s one of the great defensive accomplishments in a long time.

  • @Gunman

    It is amazing that a pressing team with more depth than KU—one that presses most of every game—got more tired than KU down the stretch and made so many more TOs the second half.

    Maybe 2 in 3 is harder on a pressing team? WVU did appear to lose its shooting legs the second half—finishing under 20% from trey

    I am interested in the idea that Huggins may have erred with having put it on them to win it.

    I will think on that.

  • @jaybate-1.0 Isn’t it most likely that WV players expended all their emotion in the first half and then with a 13 point lead they believed they had already won the game? I’ve seen KU players do the same thing. Once a team loses that edge, it’s very difficult to regain it. WV’s offense was absent most of the second half.

  • @stoptheflop

    Yes, that makes sense too.

    Rock Chalk!!!

  • I also think Mother Graham being at the game and getting so fiery the second half helped also! Holy cow! No wonder Devonte can amp up!!!

  • @jaybate-1.0 That WVU got more tired is due, I think, to KU playing a shorter rotation, and DG and Svi especially being accustomed to having to stay on the court despite playing 30+ mins. Although Carter avgs over 34, and two others are nearly at 30, they have 10 in dbl figures. That can keep fresh guys available to press, but it can hurt continuity and cohesiveness.

  • The press beat passes looked careless and reckless. Guys seemingly chucked the ball over the top of the press and let one of our guys who was generally uncovered go and get it. I thought it would lead to fast breaks but we’re generally not that good around the rim in situations like that so we just set up the O. The 2nd half it all clicked.

    It’s a simple explanation for the other, but we just increased the defensive pressure causing a lot of TO’s, without fouling. That was key to causing the TO’s.

  • @mayjay

    I am ready for some science on the measurable effects of energy budget size accruing from long term play of 7-8 vs. 10 man rotations.

    What I suspect happens is that against lesser teams, rotating 10 is a big edge, because all 10 are as good or better than the opponents 10 or less.

    But as the talent of the first 7-8 spikes up, the teams rotating 10 suddenly find their second 5 uncompetitive and so have to play their first five sharply more minutes. But the starting 5 is not ready for the increased minutes and fatigues.

    So when Duke and UK had their long stacks they were able to stay long bench and it was such an advantage, even playing green OADs, that both made deep runs against 7-8 rotation teams.

    But under short stacks, then the old dynamic of the 7-8 rotation prevails over 10 man rotations, because against to good teams the 10 rotation teams have to reduce to 5-8 to stay competitive. In turn, their 5-8 not used to going 38-40 crack.

  • @jaybate-1.0 WVU defense is their offense and like in the NCAA tourney they have lost early rounds because they got fouls called on them. Bilas even commented about lack of an offense.

  • @Gunman You have hit the nail on the head, my friend.

  • @jaybate-1.0 grandma graham

  • Whistles tightened in the 2nd half as well. I felt like that played a huge part.

  • Crimsonorblue22 said:

    @jaybate-1.0 grandma graham

    Whoa, then granny’s got a lotta juice!!

  • KU was switching EVERYTHING. It was so fluid, it was a joy to watch. Perhaps the fact that they didn’t have to constantly fight through screens gave them some extra energy to amp up the pressure in the second half. Another side effect of the switching is that it fosters more communication on the defensive end. It’s been noted by several beat writers that there isn’t a lot of chatter happening on the floor with this team. It’s also worth noting that Carter sat a couple critical minutes in the second half when a handful of those TOs were taking place. I believe Amhad chalked up 5 giveaways (not sure how many in the second half). This is just his second game back after a lengthy suspension so he’s still trying to find his groove and shake off a little rust. Perhaps if you total up all of these factors, it helps get to the root of TOs generated in the second half.
    Or, perhaps, we give this team credit for “wanting it more” since we’re always quick to point out and roast them when they don’t. Whatever it was, I’ll take it every night.

  • @Apologist

    Bingo. Huggins commented on how they could not handle all the switching by KU.

  • @stoptheflop IMO WV has never been a particularly good offensive team. The ball sticks as each player jabs and fakes. Their offense has always been tied to turnovers and scoring against teams before the defense is set.

  • I just watched the game again (thank you espn 3)

    Kansas played the most committed D in the 2nd half i’ve Seen them play all year- lots of switching as noted in this thread, and lots of pure effort - Svi played the best defense I’ve seen him play as a Jayhawk. Devonte also really worked his butt off defensively. Udoke boxed out like a beast. Everybody worked really hard to box out. Boxing out has been a real pet peeve of mine for years with KU. We usually give up so many rebounds for lack of concentration and effort in my untrained opinion.

    Which begs the question - WHY CANT WE DO THIS ALL THE %$#@=# TIME???

    Is it too hard to maintain? Is this current makeup of guys not suited to max effort D? Does it take away from offensive execution?


  • @Bosthawk The “way too simple” explanation is the lack of the depth to be able to go as hard as you need to on D. I also think that Svi and some of the others have always considered themselves as offensive players and it is a foreign mindset to really grind on the defensive end. Hopefully the team has seen the benefit of grinding out stops, I know Bill loves that kind of game over the “prettier - shooting the lights out” games like Texas this year.

  • I thought KU played quite well even in the first half. They beat the press much better than previous years. Their D was really solid. They took away WV strength, offensive rebounding, and made them into a jump shooting team.

    I thought Self had an excellent game plan and execution by players was good. The few TOs in the early stages can be expected, more mental lapses.