New Zone More Tricky That It Seems?



  • After I recovered from the shock of seeing Self use a 2-1-2 zone in half court, that zone appeared to begin morphing!

    2-1-2 became 2-3.

    2-3 became 2-1-2.

    2-1-2 became 4 and 1 (aka box and 1).

    Self may have found yet another innovation!!!

    The switching zone defence.

    It wreaked havoc with Texas. They could not recognize the zone morphing during a single possession!

    I think Bill has got something new here.



  • Bill spoke after the Arizona st game about possibly trying to figure out some match up zone schemes. MUZones have really caused Kansas some heartache. I believe Bucknell and Bradley used it against em. Oregon did as well. Post game he said he did it more to buy the guys some minutes and slow the game down. It just also happened to be the best strategy against a team who was a One Mamba Wrecking crew and no outside ahooters.

    edit: i know this wasn’t MUZ but your post just got me thinking about those comments a few weeks back.



  • @Blown smart didn’t adjust! I figured we’d see some oops!



  • @Crimsonorblue22 probably never considered self would cave on his principles of M2m and wasn’t prepared to adjust. When Self made that switch It felt like checkmate even though the score didn’t say it yet.



  • It was almost painful to watch Texas refuse to throw it up for Bamba to go dunk against that zone! Doke was playing really high and pushing the guards out on drives.

    It seemed Self even tried to help out Smart by running the lob on one of the few times Texas went zone. Almost like, here is how to beat a zone. Try it. No really, we are going to leave a 6 foot circle around the rim and you have the talles most athletic player in the big 12. Just lob it. Once. Please.



  • Smart even had half time to work out. Nope. Nothin. At least they finally started taking the open threes.



  • @benshawks08 just think if Bamba played for Self!



  • @Crimsonorblue22 14 would be in the bag and we’d be thinking 8 continues to be a lucky number (88,08,18).



  • @jaybate-1.0 Speaking of that zone, did you see the play where Doke forgot they were playing zone, and charged up to the 3 point line…essentially leaving the entire paint completely empty??? LOL. He’s young and restless- he’ll learn.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 They tried the oops twice, and both times we defended it brilliantly while we were playing zone.They did get several oops early while we were playing man to man.



  • @jaybate-1-0 Zone equaled multiple stops in a row, which led us to stretch out the lead. Shaka Dumb wisely used that time to whine more. He really is all flash no substance. Their brick layers vs. our assasins and Dumb unable to make adjustments vs. our HOF coach (I may start calling him Merlin)…game over. Only some asymmetric whistles near the end kept them close. Close games boil down to stops and we got a bunch and they got to look at a bunch of swish in the net they were (not) defending.



  • @Fightsongwriter What was that Shaka whine that drew the technical from Higgins? Wife and I couldn’t decipher what Bilas was saying about that situation. Shaka had better learn quickly not to go head to head with one of the best officials in the league. Self looked amused.



  • @REHawk They had called more fouls on us and zero goal tending and S. Dumb steps out of coach box. Warning. He does it again and Higgy T’s him up. Then he went all full metal toddler.



  • @Fightsongwriter KU got away with a lot on defense which is very unusual for KU on the road when Higgins is officiating. Considering how much KU got away with on defense, I’m not going to complain about the goal tending calls.



  • @jaybate-1-0 I kind of just think that it was a 2-3 that flexed given the floor position of the opponents, and the open space – ex., if no opponent in the corner, the lower/outside defender can guard the wing; or if Bamba was near the key, Doke would move to get face up on him (at times). If we go conventional, with say DeSousa in the lineup at the same time, I wonder of we go 3-2 with our longest guard in the middle, up top like Brandon Rush? The zone was great.



  • @HighEliteMajor I agree, I don’t think we ever switched from the 2-3it just takes a different look when guys are in different spots. The key to a zone is rotation and communication, Texas didn’t move the ball side to side or get it to the third size as coaches would say.



  • Wow so refreshing to see Self evolve as a coach, he threw the zone that confused TX. Our Zone was not very good but TX was definitely not prepared and it helped us steal some possessions and turn down the momentum on couple of occasions. Shaka could not take advantage.



  • @kjayhawks and @HighEliteMajor

    Maybe, but…

    Remember Syracuse, the masters of the 2-3. The Syracuse zone never deforms to a 2-1-2 or a box and 1, no matter what the offense does. The baseline 3 of the Syracuse 2-3 is almost inviolable.

    Self was hat-rabbiting again.

    As @Crimsonblue22 noted, Self said after ASU he was looking at match up zone tactics. And Self rarely just adopts ad hoc. He takes it to a system level.

    Self has never hated zone. He has hated the zone that does not mask where and who the defenders will help. He hates a zone defense that lets an opponent easily attack away from his best defenders. He hates a zone that poses no recognition problem.

    M2M enables him to mask where help will come from. Zone doesn’t. Self views defense through the lens of masked help.

    This is why Self has used the junk 3-2 so much. It is mistakable for M2M. It doesn’t let you pull his bigs out and it doesn’t let you know which of his bigs will be guarding your big.

    The morphing zone solves all the problems.

    2-1-2: let’s the 1 occasionally play man and chase, or play zone. The opponent cannot recognize which he will do.

    2-3 into 2-1-2. The offense thinks the seems will be at FT line, but then the middle man on baseline fills that seam. If Shaka were to play this morphing zone with Bamba they would be much tougher. My guess is at some point we will see him morph the 2-1-2 into the 1-3-1 and back again.

    THIS SO POTENTIALLY FLIPPING COOL I AM HAVING A HOOPSGASM!!!

    Where’s my cigarette?!

    I don’t think we will see this every game, same as we did not see junk zone every game, but the recognition problems it causes could really help protect Doke’s foiling and give Lightfoot a little edge, when subbing.



  • Now that zone was awesome. Stupid was completely unprepared and had no idea how to attack it. They had a big with a 7’9 wing span, was pretty much dominating the rim, but he is a horrible coach. He is out of his league and has no idea how to coach up big men. Sorry, but this game caused me to lose ALL bball respect for the one UT calls their head coach. He’s worse than Barnes, and is a complete downgrade. What a moron. What was even more funny was how he went zone after Self went zone. He was clearly coaching from Self’s game plan. Smart was exposed last night for who and what he truly is, a mid-major coach.



  • Texas has no shooters other then Jones who barely played at less then 100%. Coleman banked 2 in that tells you had bad they are from deep. This was a great percentage play to practice the zone and use it. Great decision by coach, even better that the players executed well. We should keep it in our bag of tricks the rest of the season



  • @truehawk93 I am not sure he is really that stupid, but I never before heard of a team switching from man to zone to try to defend against 3 ptrs killing them. Isn’t it usually the reverse?



  • One of my favorite Self things ever was implementing that hybrid zone during the 2012 season. After beating North Carolina Roy was asked during the post game press conference how long he thought we had been in the hybrid zone and he wasn’t sure. Maybe something similar?



  • @mayjay Agreed. But it was funny how his big man was dominating the rim for the most part and totally failed to exploit his size. But, by your same question, the zone can and is used for other reasons too, not just 3pt shooting. Yes, I would hope he went zone to limit KU’s shooting, but it failed, and they didn’t look like they were too effective with it either. Which makes me believe, he went zone because he saw KU’s effectiveness with the zone, when UT really didn’t require a zone. Self obviously went to zone to protect Dok from man-to-man fouls, right?

    So, to answer your question, NO. You don’t always use zone just for 3pt shooting. It can be used for a lot of reasons. Maybe you’re Cuse and you play zone as your primary defensive set.



  • @truehawk93 No, I meant that making 3 ptrs is considered the key to pulling someone out of a zone. Just odd to see a switch to zone when outside shooting (by a quick team especially) is easier than against a man defense.



  • @mayjay I agree I believe he put it when we were finally able to get some points in the paint and he kept thinking that we will eventually cool off

    But luckily our shots kept falling especially after every TX run



  • @jaybate-1.0 I myself could not believe my own eyes. He played zone waaaaaay more than I can remember!

    Rock Chalk Jayhawks!



  • @mayjay

    Efficient 3 point shooting is called a zone killer. Shaka not so Smart gambled KU would cool off from the 3 and lost that bet.



  • Self told the team before the game to shoot at least 35 3s. Said he was going to tell them 40, but didn’t want to get in their heads. I think the comfidenc from coach that no 3 is a bad 3 has really taken the lid off the bucket. Guys catch it and go up with no hesitation and I love it.


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