Langford
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Agree with @SkinnyKansasDude Why would he wait til the end of the month if he has already decided on Vandy or IU. I’ll my sources have said Malik is a one year guy here and he was great in the post season, even in the Nova game he had 21 and 8. I would be shocked if Vick doesn’t atleast test the waters.
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I think Vick is just going to get “forced” out. Or, really, the AWIII treatment. Self will tell Vick he is more than happy to have him back, providing he knows that he may very well end up coming off of the bench. From there, I think Vick and his camp will decide that he might as well leave and start making money now, because his draft stock is never going to hit potential first rounder at this point.
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@Kcmatt7 I think same could apply to Cunliffe, too much talent ahead of him to get meaningful PT
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Vick would play if he returns. I don’t see a place for Cunliffe in the rotation, though. I don’t see how he plays in the future, either. My guess is Cunliffe transfers to a D2 program to play immediately (you can play immediately if you transfer down). That keeps him from having to sit out again.
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@Kcmatt7 I really like your “ahead of the curve” commentary. I think your suggestion is a very likely path. One mitigator might be that Vick did get back in the lineup (not like we had much choice), that he did bounce-back ,and the team did coalesce with Vick in the lineup. I think if Vick leaves, it is exactly what you’ve projected.
The question to me is whether Self would play that hand with Vick if he was unsure if Langford was coming? Or stated another way, would he only play that hand with Vick if he know Langford coming? If Vick is gone and Langford does not come, that’s some pretty strong circumstantial evidence of the dynamic going on … not definitive, of course.
Man, feel bad for Cunliffe. Should have transferred to a next step down program like ISU, or OU.
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@HighEliteMajor I feel bad for Sam also.
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@HighEliteMajor I think that Self is willing to take the risk with Vick, even if Langford doesn’t come. If he leaves, it is a small hole to fill, imo. We would still have 4 guards, and a 5th perimeter player in KJ if we needed him to play on the perimeter. Their won’t be some gaping hole if he leaves and Langford doesn’t come, so I don’t think Self cares if he hurts any feelings.
I think it is worth the risk to just be straight up with Vick, because if for some reason he does come back, knowing he would be the super sub 6th man, that mitigates any potential chemistry problems. You just tell him, Langford is coming, and he is going to start barring any unforeseen events. We would love for you to stay, but we understand if you would rather pursue other opportunities instead.
If somehow we got both, good gosh almighty. It would finally give us a guy capable of scoring 20 coming off the bench. A luxury we haven’t had in a long, long time. That would be the dream.
As far as Cunliffe goes, I would have to agree. He should have gone to a smaller school. It sounds like the staff lied to him and said he would get a lot of PT and took him mostly as an insurance policy. He was used and abused. I feel bad for the guy, but I could honestly see him being a key piece to a mid-major team that makes tournament noise in a few years. I wish him the best, he has seemed like nothing but a great teammate even through rough circumstances.
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HighEliteMajor said:
Man, feel bad for Cunliffe. Should have transferred to a next step down program like ISU, or OU.
Forwarding to cyclonefanatic.
Cunliffe won’t be a factor next year. He has been saying the right things but I won’t be surprised if he transfers again. He still has a RS year to take*.
*He played two half seasons which each count as a full season of eligibility. The time off for the transfer however does not count as a redshirt, he just couldn’t play.
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Romeo probably won’t announce before the deadline to declare. If Vick and/or Newman declare, then it’s all clear for Romeo. And Romeo’s commitment makes it less likely either return.
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@Kcmatt7 Agree, Vick is very replaceable. Even as a SR. Don’t mean to bash. I wouldn’t hate it if he came back but I don’t see it. Iirc he has some kids, so he might just want to start cashing checks.
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Athleticism shouldn’t be an issue next year, leadership is needed. So Vick isn’t the ideal Sr. for next season. Malik could be that upper class leader, but he’s not likely to come back.
Bring on Romeo.
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What about romeo’s Dad? Is he a problem?
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@Crimsonorblue22 I’m sure that Bill knows how to handle these types of parents pretty well.
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@Kcmatt7 Why would Vick be forced out?
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BShark said:
@truehawk93 I’m confused by your list. Svi and Graham are seniors.
I’m just listing them for clarity and accounting.
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RockkChalkk said:
JayHawkFanToo said:
Svi and Devonté are seniors so they are gone. This leaves 13 players for the 13 (not 15) scholarships allowed. For Langford to join either Newman or Vick need to leave or maybe Cunliffe either leave or red shirt.
BTW, Doke is an Academic All-Conference rather than All-American.
Actually, i believe it leaves 14 players for the 13 spots. Did you count Lawson twice? As we stand now, at least one underclassmen must depart to have enough scholarships. If we want room for Langford, we need two to leave.
Lawsonx2 is both Lawsons
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SkinnyKansasDude said:
I think Malik declares, Vick stays and Cunliffe either redshirts or transfers and we do sign Romeo. I think Matt makes a good point that if he was leaning towards Indiana or Vandy he would have committed by now. I also believe he’s waiting to see who leaves KU. I personally would rather have either Vick or Newman stay than Romeo.
No…if Malik goes, I want Vick gone too. Vick may pull one over on everyone and stay if Malik jumps. Malik sounded resolute in post-interviews after the Nova loss. He seemed like he had things on his mind.
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Kcmatt7 said:
I think Vick is just going to get “forced” out. Or, really, the AWIII treatment. Self will tell Vick he is more than happy to have him back, providing he knows that he may very well end up coming off of the bench. From there, I think Vick and his camp will decide that he might as well leave and start making money now, because his draft stock is never going to hit potential first rounder at this point.
Someone will go and someone else will get squeezed. Vick has reached a ceiling.
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I agree. I think Cunliffe is in the same boat as the big NAIA kid. Cunliffe, like CJ Henry (Southern Nazarene U, OKC), could go to an NAIA and be a phenom. Or he could sit the pine and get mop mins with KU, wasting paper.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
What about romeo’s Dad? Is he a problem?
Haha…only with UK and Calipari…love it.
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You are correct. I guess I was thinking that Newman is likely not coming back. On the other hand, if he does come back he and Dedrick would be All American candidates.
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Vick is a player wit a high ceiling. If he comes back and gets his act together he would be as good or better than a freshman OAD and he would see lots of playing time.
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@Hawk8086 He isn’t as good as the player he is “blocking” and he seems to lack any good leadership qualities.
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@JayHawkFanToo I don’t see this high ceiling. 3 years in and He seems like the same player he was when he got here. A skinny kid that doesn’t play hard on defense and is a streaky shooter with no ability to create his own shot. I don’t know what upside is really left because I don’t see that changing. Vick can’t dribble and doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body. I’d rather have one of the best scorers in Indiana High School history who seems to have some competitive fire and more potential than Vick if he truly buys in. Of course that’s my opinion, and I do understand why others would rather have Vick and an experienced returner instead.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@JayHawkFanToo I don’t see this high ceiling. 3 years in and He seems like the same player he was when he got here. A skinny kid that doesn’t play hard on defense and is a streaky shooter with no ability to create his own shot. I don’t know what upside is really left because I don’t see that changing. Vick can’t dribble and doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body. I’d rather have one of the best scorers in Indiana High School history who seems to have some competitive fire and more potential than Vick if he truly buys in. Of course that’s my opinion, and I do understand why others would rather have Vick and an experienced returner instead.
Yeah, counting on Vick to get his act together/suddenly get aggressive seems like a sucker bet.
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@Kcmatt7 I am in the same boat with you. - I like La Gerald but the thing is I think he is at his ceiling , I don’t see him improving or at least improving that much to make it worth his while to come back for one more season. - On top of the fact with him about his ceiling why would he want to take a chance if he feels he is ready why take that chance of coming back risk possible injury like any other athlete does take that chance and possibly ruin ANY chance of playing anywhere for money whether it be the NBA or over sea’s?
I feel pretty confidently that Vick & Newman are both gone as they are ready to start getting played for the ball skills whether it’s in the NBA or abroad. – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Langford is, right now, a superior pure three point shooter to both Newman and Vick. Langford is as big as Vick and bigger than Newman. Langford is probably on par with Vick as a ballhandler, with Newman being a superior ball handler. As a scorer, Langford and Newman are probably about even (maybe a tiny edge to Newman), with Vick behind those two because he doesn’t create his own shot as much.
I can’t guarantee that the combination of Langford-Grimes-Dotson will be as good as Vick-Newman-Graham, but from a raw talent perspective, the LGD group is better. That’s just the facts. Those three freshmen are each better athletes than their experienced counterpart. If Langford comes, he’s an upgrade from a ceiling perspective.
KU’s struggles in the postseason have nothing to do with floor and everything to do with ceiling. KU had to be perfect to beat Villanova because it wasn’t likely that Newman would drop 40 to keep us in it (only guy on the roster with that type of scoring ability). With guys like Langford and Grimes, they could just take over a game and go for 30+ to keep KU afloat. We need to have that risk element in there in order to win a national championship. Having the consistency is nice for the blood pressure, but it won’t guarantee anything come postseason because as the rounds go on, you have to have the highest possible ceiling.
@jayballer73 makes a great point that Vick is never going to be a lottery pick. Vick is probably a second rounder at best, but his more likely route is the G League. If that’s the route either way, he probably benefits by getting that process started now, rather than delaying it by another year.
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Bossi came on a local radio show and predicted Indiana for Langford but also mentioned that Romeo’s dad believes that Romeo “needs Self’s coaching”.
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@BShark Just found it interesting that Romeo said the ONE thing that sticks out to him about KU was the success Coach Self has had with bigger guards. - You know Grimes is gong to be all up in his ear this weekend at the Jordan Brand classic - -Then him and McCormack both when they go to Oregon - -you would think can’t hurt any - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
Bossi came on a local radio show and predicted Indiana for Langford but also mentioned that Romeo’s dad believes that Romeo “needs Self’s coaching”.
Bossi…this is hilarious. IU is the biggest joke. If he was going to IU, why would he go to give them one last chance? Why go for one last visit? Just pick them if they are your choice. This tells me IU is out. It’s down to Vandy and KU. KU is leading and Langford is waiting on the paper to sign.
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Very similar situation with IU where they offered Romeo Langford’s gf a full ride Volleyball scholarship…it may work but it’s clearly desperate.
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Now, if Romeo breaks up with his GF, wouln’t it backfire big time since he would want to be far away from her?..just sayin’
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I hope Self redshirts Ochai Agbaji. Garrett will be too important for leadership. He is a much more athletic version of Releford. Hopefully we pick up Langford. Langford and Grimes will provide firepower. Garrett should work on his shots this off season and become a bigger threat. At least I hope he will make teams respect him more. Dotson should hold his own and distribute. I hope Vick tests the waters and then jumps.
Dotson, Garrett, Grimes, DLaw, and Doke
Moore, Garrett, Langford, Silvio, and DMac
Garrett, Langford, Grimes, KLaw, and Doke
Moore, Garrett, Grimes, DLaw, and Doke
Moore, Garrett, Langford, DLaw, and Meeotch
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I agree but it’s up to Agbaji. FR redshirts under Self have been pretty rare. Can’t really count McLemore or Jamari since those were academic.
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If Vick leaves there is that open spot for Langford, scholarship-wise, and no need for anyone to red shirt unless needed for extra development.
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Red shirted players are still on scholarship anyway. So it’s up to Agbaji if he is sure he wants to be around 5 years.
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BShark said:
Red shirted players are still on scholarship anyway. So it’s up to Agbaji if he is sure he wants to be around 5 years.
I think he should a la Landen. Landen knew he’d average under 5 MPG his true freshman year so he decided to trade a year of playing and it worked out great for everyone. Ochai will be 4th on the depth chart at the 3 behind Vick/Langford, Garrett, and Cunliffe. He can be a really good player years 3-5 like Landen was.
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Agbaji has come on so strong over the last 18 months, I don’t know that he needs to redshirt. His development curve has ramped up so quickly that I am not sure where to put him right now. A year ago, I wouldn’t have even picked him to be an All Metro level player (not first team, anyway). He ended up being POY. Agbaji has absolutely exploded in the last year. He was probably only a three star player before. He’s a good four star now, and trending upward.
I don’t know if he will be a four year guy, or if his improvement will continue at this rate, but Agbaji could help next season’s team, particularly if Langford doesn’t join because Agbaji can shoot a bit.
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Picked up another CB pick for Langford from a Duke insider.
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His progression reminds me of Vick’s. Garrett saw a big jump in his Sr year as well so that’s another good comp. I’d rather see him compete and not shirt if he has a clear path to contributing.
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@BShark The flood gates are going to open up I think.
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@Kcmatt7 I’m fairly confident he is headed to Lawrence.
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@justanotherfan At this point. I don’t think Bill goes that route. Either you are good enough to compete or you will get recruited over and pushed out. Dog eat dog.
It isn’t a graceful way of constructing a roster, but it has times where it is effective.
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Well we just picked up another CB for Romeo - -by Jeff Ermann from the Maryland insider - - - gaining ground we are now like Vanderbilt 40% - -Indiana 35% and then us 25 % -in the past few days we have went from 11% - -to 16% - -to 21% and now like 25% - I’m wondering if something hasn’t leaked
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Langford’s said the decision would come after these All-Star games. The last one is the 13th. He wants to announce at his HS gym, so it would be Monday at the earliest. But I would bet that it will take a day or two to put everything together with ESPN and the HS. So I would bet 4/18 at the earliest. He won’t take or have any more visits either which I think bodes well.
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kcb2009
@kyle_byard 14m 14 minutes ago
More Replying to @BSpeaks_24 @FloHoops and 2 others He canceled his visit to IU right after Newman and Vick declared. That’s no coincidence
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@Statmachine - -ya I was curious - last I knew he was still going to visit IU for a final time. - -The thing is and it’s just a thing I can’t even remember who but the way they put it out was - -If Romeo on his commitment announcement had it like somewhere in a public setting where a lot of people could come then things for KU/Vandy might be better - -BUT with him saying it was probably going to be in his High School gym - just gives me a feel it’s NOT KU - -more like Indiana being the one with him announcing in the hometown gym -staying home - - hope not.- – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Statmachine said:
kcb2009
@kyle_byard 14m 14 minutes ago
More Replying to @BSpeaks_24 @FloHoops and 2 others He canceled his visit to IU right after Newman and Vick declared. That’s no coincidence
IU isn’t the competition. There are people saying Vanderbilt is the choice. We will see.
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I do believe he will pick KU.
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Was told today to expect an announcement the first week of May and it’ll be KU. Not 100% sure of its reliability since the family has said late April, but we’ll see!
