Quentin Grimes Is A Jayhawk (MONSTER CLASS ALERT)
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Statmachine said:
@BShark KJ will have been at a D1 school for 3 years going into is 4th by the time next year starts. I think he starts over any Freshman due to conditioning and experience UNLESS KU lands Zion period.
Ah this is where we differ I don’t think he is competing with a FR for playing time. I think he is competing with Dedric because KJ is a 4 at KU and higher level D1 ball in general with his skill set. Could be that Dedric and KJ start in the post together and Silvio comes off the bench.
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Also it’s great to be able to even have these discussions. Real options! So nice…
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@BShark Yes, next year no matter how things shake out we will have the best roster on paper IMO…
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Agree. We are looking at possibly the best guard Self has had at KU (Grimes) and the most skilled true 4 man (Dedric). I also think Silvio’s potential is through the roof.
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Next years team will have an identity problem. Who leads next years team? So many new faces. Some have exp some talent but mostly new faces! Who will lead and what does KU look like next year?
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Statmachine said:
Next years team will have an identity problem. Who leads next years team? So many new faces. Some have exp some talent but mostly new faces! Who will lead and what does KU look like next year?
I think Dedric and Grimes will be the primary offensive players (guys you feed the ball and run plays for) but certainly it is up for debate. No doubt with KU replacing so many players it will take time to gel. By the end of the year, the team should be excellent though.
Also there could be some variance depending on who stays.
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@BShark How would it be any different with KJ & Dedric playing at KU then at when they played at Memphis? - - they played at the same time on the floor a lot while at Memphis - why then couldn’t that be the case here at KU? - - I don’t think KJ would be competing against Dedric here. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
@BShark How would it be any different with KJ & Dedric playing at KU then at when they played at Memphis? - - they played at the same time on the floor a lot while at Memphis - why then couldn’t that be the case here at KU? - - I don’t think KJ would be competing against Dedric here. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Did you see the roster around them at Memphis? Much more skill surrounding them at KU.
Also if you look at Memphis their last year, it seems Tubby alternated playing big and small. KJ, Dedric, Crawford and Martin always started. However there was a split between Jimario Rivers (a guard) and Chad Rykhoek (a 6’ 11’ post player). It looks like at the end of the year they were leaning towards playing small, with KJ at the 4. Do we suddenly think that moving up a level in competition, that KJ is going to play a MORE skill oriented position more of the time? I certainly do not think so.
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To be clear they can absolutely play on the floor together but in these scenarios imo Dedric will be playing center and KJ the 4.
We always seem to think guys can play a position up (Marcus and Perry at the three anyone?) but then it never happens in real, high leverage situations and rarely at all in general.
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That’s why Vick or Doke is important from a leadership standpoint next season. Maybe Vick more because he would be a senior and he’ll have the ball in his hands a lot more then Doke does. Either one of them is really important. Otherwise we are looking at KU’s version of a Duke/UK overhaul.
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BShark said:
To be clear they can absolutely play on the floor together but in these scenarios imo Dedric will be playing center and KJ the 4.
We always seem to think guys can play a position up (Marcus and Perry at the three anyone?) but then it never happens in real, high leverage situations and rarely at all in general.
Bingo. I see KJ as a small ball 4, basically a better rebounding and offensive talent then Lightfoot. His chemistry with his brother could be important to put out on the floor with Dedric though. He’s also known as being a good defender and passer (things we saw in Italy) for example.
I know months have passed and the excitment of our freshman are still on our minds but KJ can play and if he finds a consistent perimeter shot he’s going to be a big part of the rotation
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What are we thinking the odds are that Dok comes back?
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Putting these direct quotes out there for anyone that didn’t see the article I linked to earlier.
“He had Deron Williams call me probably two, three weeks ago, and he just explained to me how much he loves Coach Self and how I would fit in great with their program,” Grimes said. “It was kind of a wow moment because I got to pick his brain a little bit, ask him a few questions about Coach Self and also about non-Kansas stuff like the NBA and find out what you have to do to get your gam ready for that next level.”
As for what he asked Williams about Self specifically, Grimes said he just appreciated the opportunity to run KU’s recruiting pitch by someone who had been in his shoes before to see if the pitch and actually playing for him matched up.
It sounds like it did.
“I asked him a lot,” Grimes said of his phone conversation with Williams. “How is Coach Self on the court, off the court, if he really lets you play your game. And he kept it real with me the whole time so that was kind of another big factor that went into my decision.”
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A few thoughts…
Based on the two games to date we cannot say for sure which player will go and who will stay, just not enough of a sample to make a statement of any sort.
As far a KJ, we don’t know for sure how good he is or will be by next season with one year of practice under KU coaching and being conditioned by Hudy.
Kentucky is doing juts fine recruiting, #3 in Rivals and #4 in Scout. If they sign Zion likely they move to the top unless KU signs one more quality player like Langford.
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HawkChamp said:
What are we thinking the odds are that Dok comes back?
I think they are slim if I was looking at this from his point of view.
Self stressed that he wouldn’t leave without a 1st round guarantee. Right now he’s no where near the 2nd round on mocks so it would seem he would be back right?
An extra year would do wonders for him, He’d have another 30+ games under his belt, another year to work on footwork, post moves, FT shooting etc. He’d only be 19 going to the NBA after next season.
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That’s big using a former player… Smart move.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
As far a KJ, we don’t know for sure how good he is or will be by next season with one year of practice under KU coaching and being conditioned by Hudy.
Kentucky is doing juts fine recruiting, #3 in Rivals and #4 in Scout. If they sign Zion likely they move to the top unless KU signs one more quality player like Langford.
I think KJ will be pretty good, KU just has a stacked roster.
As for Zion, the Clemson smoke is hooooooooooot and heavy right now. Seems like he might actually pop for Clemson soon.
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If I had to pick, I would definitely choose Zion. To me, he is almost a clone of Julius Randle - tall, powerful and fast. Randle was the main reason for their title game appearance, imo. He was almost impossible to stop and I see Zion being the same way. If we had landed Randle in 2013, i think that definitely would have been a final four year.
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BeddieKU23 said:
HawkChamp said:
What are we thinking the odds are that Dok comes back?
I think they are slim if I was looking at this from his point of view.
Self stressed that he wouldn’t leave without a 1st round guarantee. Right now he’s no where near the 2nd round on mocks so it would seem he would be back right?
An extra year would do wonders for him, He’d have another 30+ games under his belt, another year to work on footwork, post moves, FT shooting etc. He’d only be 19 going to the NBA after next season.
Slim that he comes back? The rest of the post doesn’t seem to match up with that.
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@BShark he needs more polishing to have a long nba career.
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HawkChamp said:
If I had to pick, I would definitely choose Zion. To me, he is almost a clone of Julius Randle - tall, powerful and fast. Randle was the main reason for their title game appearance, imo. He was almost impossible to stop and I see Zion being the same way. If we had landed Randle in 2013, i think that definitely would have been a final four year.
Looks like he is going to be taking the Simmons/Fultz path.
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@BShark it ain’t over til it’s over. No one thought Wiggins was coming here but he did.
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Doke is right now pretty much an unknown since he did not play most of last season. As the season progresses he will show up in the NBA radar and his stock will go up if nothing else based on his size and potential.
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
HawkChamp said:
What are we thinking the odds are that Dok comes back?
I think they are slim if I was looking at this from his point of view.
Self stressed that he wouldn’t leave without a 1st round guarantee. Right now he’s no where near the 2nd round on mocks so it would seem he would be back right?
An extra year would do wonders for him, He’d have another 30+ games under his belt, another year to work on footwork, post moves, FT shooting etc. He’d only be 19 going to the NBA after next season.
Slim that he comes back? The rest of the post doesn’t seem to match up with that.
Yeah I don’t think Doke is looking at this the way we are. Maybe I’m wrong but I do think he wants to go after the year. Whether his injury from last year or how the season plays out changes that is TBD. Hopefully by season’s end we’ll have a clearer picture of what the scouts think of him.
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HawkChamp said:
What are we thinking the odds are that Dok comes back?
Well I really don’t count for anything but If you were to ask me now, compared to say 3-4 months ago now I’m swaying more.
Here is my thoughts may not amount to squat but anyways, I’m getting more of a feeling there could be that chance Doke could return, before I thought for sure no matter what he was gone.
The reason for me thinking that is as I’ve said before - -still really raw, he just has to develop and or work on some kind of a shot other then dunk - I mean sure he could be drafted off his size alone always a place for a man of that size - -BUT if he doesn’t have some kind of shot going to be really hard for him . - -Plus I’m just not really convinced because it seems the NBA is kind of trending away from that true Big man, seems to be going with more of smaller quicker line up - the days of the old big I think is setting in the sunset. Really fast pace - Doke has to get that conditioning down, If I had to make a solid prediction right now. -I’d probably still lean a little more that he is gone, but just think there is more of a chance of a return then I thought before because of why I mentioned. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
HawkChamp said:
What are we thinking the odds are that Dok comes back?
I think they are slim if I was looking at this from his point of view.
Self stressed that he wouldn’t leave without a 1st round guarantee. Right now he’s no where near the 2nd round on mocks so it would seem he would be back right?
An extra year would do wonders for him, He’d have another 30+ games under his belt, another year to work on footwork, post moves, FT shooting etc. He’d only be 19 going to the NBA after next season.
Slim that he comes back? The rest of the post doesn’t seem to match up with that.
Yeah I don’t think Doke is looking at this the way we are. Maybe I’m wrong but I do think he wants to go after the year. Whether his injury from last year or how the season plays out changes that is TBD. Hopefully by season’s end we’ll have a clearer picture of what the scouts think of him.
Ok that’s what I thought you meant but I wanted to be sure. Of course being an African kid we know he has “handlers” and likely those guys want him in the league.
For now I tend to believe Self that he could stay if he won’t be a first rounder. I like that Self said that directly.
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@BShark I Think so - - my famous gut feeling lmao. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@justanotherfan @BeddieKU23 et al something to keep in mind is Doke plays a dying position. I think he needs to show more based on what I’m hearing/reading but we will see. Great thing is KU will be fine either way.
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@HawkChamp OH good another Randle - that means when he went on to the NBA it could be another one for JO JO to dominate like he did Randle - that’s a lot of what the talk about was from the game how Randle had no chance against JO JO - I’m just messing with ya about another Randle but that would make JO JO’s eyes light up for sure lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
@justanotherfan @BeddieKU23 et al something to keep in mind is Doke plays a dying position. I think he needs to show more based on what I’m hearing/reading but we will see. Great thing is KU will be fine either way.
Embiid phoned and said…WHAT?
Just kidding, I agree with you, the trend is towards big mobile stretch 4s.
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Embiid is AMAZING.
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from marquette’s mod.
"This was an interesting recruitment…
I think it came down to Kan and Texas…but at one time, MU led barely.
I thought MU had the opportunity for him to be showcased…and play the PG…
The family was key…I heard that mom really liked Wojo…but then she also attended Kansas.
I heard from Kansas people in Aug…that MU had a great shot because the dad really likes Wojo. That worried Kansas…
MU recruited Grimes hard…and gave it 100%…sending multiple coaches down to visit…which forced Self to do the same…
Then you hear that the father always wanted him to go to Kansas…who knows?"
What’s missing? no where does it say what Quentin wanted. What school Quentin liked. Obviously if a kid is considering your school and officially visits he likes you in some way. Always interesting to see the parents comments to schools but in the end its the kids choice. Just ask Keldon Johnson’s father.
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BShark said:
@justanotherfan @BeddieKU23 et al something to keep in mind is Doke plays a dying position. I think he needs to show more based on what I’m hearing/reading but we will see. Great thing is KU will be fine either way.
Good point. Absolutely agree. At this point in my opinion it would be a big mistake for him to leave. He’s much improved but we know there’s so much more he can learn and get better at before jumping. Age is never going to be a factor with this kid so unlike other players his best basketball should still be years down the road.
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A couple thoughts here. As of today, Doke will be back. He’s not really on draft radars as of yet. People forget he’s just 18 and a couple months old. He has to show continued development on both ends, especially rebounding. He’ll have to get much better there to be an impact NBA center. Vick is the only guy we have that’s really caught the eye of scouts. They love his length, athleticism, and shooting ability. Just needs to refine it all and put the whole thing together. He’ll have plenty of opportunity this year. Newman is gone. He’s ready to get paid, whether that’s in the NBA, Europe, or Australia.
KJ is a small ball 4 at KU. That’s the spot where he maximizes strengths (passing, rebounding, defense) and minimizes weaknesses (shooting, handling). People are forgetting how good Dedric is. He has like 36 career double doubles already, plus gets a year with the best S&C coach in America to work on his below average athleticism. There’s no reason he can’t put up T-Rob type numbers next season. He’s also a tremendous passer. He and Doke could run the hell out of the high low, and we can space the floor with all the guards. The real guy to watch over the next couple years is Garrett. The staff is over the moon about him, and have basically guaranteed him a starting spot next season. His development is another reason why I don’t think we get Langford. I think there’s actually a good chance they’d prefer starting Garrett over Romeo.
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@FarmerJayhawk Dedric is a MONSTARRRRR. I will say it again he would be the best player on this year’s team as well.
Also I could see that. Romeo is instant offense but the word on him is that he coasts a bit and is lazy defensively. I’d happily take him because SCORING POINTS MATTERS but yeah Garrett will likely do everything else better next year.
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@BeddieKU23 My point exactly with Zion. - -Hearing Dad really wants him to stay home - -go to Clemson - like you just said though it’s Zion’s future - should be his decision - -whats Zion want? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 Notice all the articles on Grimes where he said his mom didn’t push him to KU? Said she wanted it to be his decision and his alone.
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BShark said:
@justanotherfan @BeddieKU23 et al something to keep in mind is Doke plays a dying position. I think he needs to show more based on what I’m hearing/reading but we will see. Great thing is KU will be fine either way.
Thing is bud - -IF again I - -say IF somehow - for some reason -Doke & Vick came back - -would there be enough spots available - -I’m sure coach threw at these recruits for next year that these people more chances then not would not be coming back - -especially when he is tell these guys that chances are they start. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
@jayballer54 Notice all the articles on Grimes where he said his mom didn’t push him to KU? Said she wanted it to be his decision and his alone.
" EXACTLY " and that’s the way it should be. - He is the one that needs to be happy at the College he is attending - -It’s his future we are talking about here - It should be HIS decision. I fully realize that as kids we want to make are parents happy - - proud - -but at the end of the day - it’s the kids life & future that’s the real issue here. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
BShark said:
@justanotherfan @BeddieKU23 et al something to keep in mind is Doke plays a dying position. I think he needs to show more based on what I’m hearing/reading but we will see. Great thing is KU will be fine either way.
Thing is bud - -IF again I - -say IF somehow - for some reason -Doke & Vick came back - -would there be enough spots available - -I’m sure coach threw at these recruits for next year that these people more chances then not would not be coming back - -especially when he is tell these guys that chances are they start. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
It will be fine. Can never have too much talent.
I posted a roster breakdown for that in another thread.
The most disappointed would likely be Big Dave but I don’t think he expects to start anyway, unlike Dotson and Grimes.
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jayballer54 said:
BShark said:
@jayballer54 Notice all the articles on Grimes where he said his mom didn’t push him to KU? Said she wanted it to be his decision and his alone.
" EXACTLY " and that’s the way it should be. - He is the one that needs to be happy at the College he is attending - -It’s his future we are talking about here - It should be HIS decision. I fully realize that as kids we want to make are parents happy - - proud - -but at the end of the day - it’s the kids life & future that’s the real issue here. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He was grinning ear to ear it was so great. Also he had that custom KU jersey ready. I think he had an idea for awhile, just wanted to confirm it.
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@jayballer54 Except Randle isn’t really a center, I think, right? He should have been dominated by Joel because he’s out of position. In college he was a power forward, he’s only 6’9" against a 7’2" guy.
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wissox said:
@jayballer54 Except Randle isn’t really a center, I think, right? He should have been dominated by Joel because he’s out of position. In college he was a power forward, he’s only 6’9" against a 7’2" guy.
True but not JO’S JO’S fault. - -he can only guard who he is told to guard - besides more and more position less BB anymore. - And Randle has graduated from College this is the NBA may have a power forward in College but it’s called welcome to the NBA lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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With Grimes, it really doesn’t make a huge difference what Vick’s decision is. That’s why landing Grimes was so important. If Vick comes back, you’re thinking about a truly great team. If Vick goes, you’re still really, really good.
Right now, as of this moment, KU has the following roster for next season:
Guards - Garrett, Cunliffe, Moore, Grimes, Dotson
Forwards - Lightfoot, K. Lawson, D. Lawson, De Sousa, McCormack
You can mix and match that group as much as you want.
Go small with the Lawson’s, Garrett, Grimes and either Dotson or Moore.
Go Big with Garrett, Grimes, the Lawson’s and McCormack or De Sousa.
Traditional lineup with Moore, Grimes, K. Lawson, De Sousa, McCormack
Everybody’s basically the same size lineup of Garrett, Cunliffe, Grimes, and the Lawson’s. You could switch everything with this group. I’m not sure many teams could actually match up with this group on the floor on both ends. Maybe nobody could.
And that’s without Vick. And without Azuibuke. Add those guys in, probably approach Lightfoot about redshirting, and you have a legitimate 11 deep team. Look at that group again. Cunliffe is probably the guard that won’t play much, but I think he’s going to play solid minutes on this year’s team (and do well). De Sousa is probably the least ready, but if he joins the team at semester this year, he could be much more ready to contribute as a soph.
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I really find the scholarship conversation interesting. There are really four underclassmen that have been rumored to consider going to the NBA after this year.
Vick, Newman, Preston, and Dok
As KU stands now, at least one of them must go in order to have enough scholarships. (Note, this whole post assumes there is no surprise transfer). The interesting part for me is that circumstances change throughout the year and nothing is guaranteed. Prior to the season starting, all I saw was people saying it was almost a given that Dok would be gone next year. Now, just two games into the season, all I’m hearing is that its probably more likely now that he stays another year (not on any mock drafts, plays a dying position in the nba, etc.). What if more circumstances change? What if, say Preston can’t play this year and NBA teams don’t want to take a chance on him until he proves he has his head on straight? What if Newman has an average year, would he really prefer to be paid overseas rather than try to improve his draft stock at KU? Of course there is always the scary Brandon Rush injury thing that could happen too which forces a player into another year of college.
Its all very interesting to me. It seems that even if someone like Romeo Langford wanted to sign with KU right now, Self would probably have to wait until Spring to know for sure that the spot is available.
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@RockkChalkk Desousa will use a 2017 scolorship if allowed to reclassify
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Billy and Malik are going pro no matter what. They want to get paid, whether it’s in the NBA or overseas.
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As far as I know, Lightfoot is studying Engineering and has no NBA aspiration so highly unlikely he redshirts.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
As far as I know, Lightfoot is studying Engineering and has no NBA aspiration so highly unlikely he redshirts.
I actually think this supports the argument for the redshirt. An extra year of free college to finish your Engineering degree, not in a rush to get to the NBA/Overseas. Doing Engineering while a Div. 1 athlete is a very tough thing to do, that extra year might be very welcomed actually.
