Border War to start back up??
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@JayHawkFanToo Well, something just doesn’t seem right about Self’s decision. I know that he probably leaps at the chance to get in an extra glorified practice contest with a real outside opponent; but WHY MIZZOU? Seems very bizarre to me. I am an old Missouri resident, and I had hoped to see KU stay shy of treacherous Tigers until I was in the grave. Kansas could have played some other opponent and earned more charity money with less bitter reprisal and grief. Bill Self either is not in control or is a weaker man than I had long calculated.
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@REHawk I think it was posted on here, Self’s dad wanted him to do it.
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You all realize this MU embargo is over, right?
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UK to play Morehead State on Oct 30 for hurricane relief.
S Carolina “in talks” to play someone. I suspect Winthrop or Citadel, b/c Clemson and Coastal are already on schedule.
We started a trend!
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I am leaning this way. I honestly think KU cold have played Wichita State and the place would have sold out even at AFH with half the ticket going to them; WSU has a very large and loyal following. Or maybe a KU, KSU, WSU scrimmage where the teams ply each other in one 20 minutes half and the event was kept all Kansas. It could have then challenged MU to do likewise with Missouri State and UMKC or St. Louis and raise twice the money.
As far as being Coach Self dad’s idea, why would he suggest something that he knows his son is very adamant against it? Makes no sense to me.
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If you read Coach Self’s comments apparently it was his dad’s idea (this baffles me) and he went with it but MU leaked the information, basically taking credit for it. I heard from someone that knows someone that is related to someone familiar with the program he was pretty upset and realized once more the treacherous nature of MU and the chances of playing them again are not impossible, of course, but highly unlikely. The SEC-Big 12 series might be the only hope.
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@JayHawkFanToo See this article: The real reason Bill Self is OK with Kansas playing Missouri — and just this once
“[Self’s] dad was then the head of the Oklahoma Secondary Schools Activities Association, and the idea was awesome in scope and spirit: every school from the highest levels of Division I all the way down through Division III, junior colleges and high schools would schedule one more game, with all the money going to Katrina victims…When the disasters hit, Self went back to his dad’s idea.”
So his dad’s idea (from 2004 and not related to Missouri) was the inspiration - but Self decided on Missouri.
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One correction, Katrina happened in August of 2005 so the proposal to have the games and donate money to its victims could not have been done in 2004 and this was long before MU left the conference in 2012.
Again, I find the selection of MU at this time very odd based on Coach Self’s known opposition to the idea and when other options were available. I still believe something happened behind the scenes that we don’t know. Kentucky is playing catch up and playing in-state small school Morehead State.
Remember that for many years most of us truly believed that KU got over penalized by the NCAA due to the Askew incident that prevented KU from defending its NCAA title, only to find out recently that KU was really facing the death penalty. Sometimes things are not what they seem.
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Bill is smart. He was being attacked for not playing Misery, so he gets to slay that dragon in a game that has no bearing on our record, while raising a ton of money for a great cause. Plus, it gives us an extra game to prepare for 'Tucky ( which is why 'tucky is playing an extra game as well ).
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Seems likely that for at least a year, some fans are going to gnash their teeth over the choice of Mizzou. Okay, we get it you don’t like it. And, considering how fast the tickets sold, I am not buying @JayHawkFanToo’s contention that 90% of KU fans are against it. Yes, WSU might have sold out, too. But who cares at this point. The decision is over.
Of course, if KU doesn’t win the title this year, we know what will be blamed.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
One correction, Katrina happened in August of 2005 so the proposal to have the games and donate money to its victims could not have been done in 2004 and this was long before MU left the conference in 2012.
Thanks for the correction. I don’t get the part “this was long before MU left the conference”. There is no relation between Self’s dad’s idea and Missouri. That was my whole and only point. Again, the article claims Self was inspired by his dad’s idea to play a charity game. He - Self not his dad - then chose Missouri as the most expedient opponent.
I hope that is clear and that no one will think Self’s dad had anything to do with the choice of Missouri. Right or wrong, Coach Self alone determined that Missouri was the best (or only) choice as opponent.
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mayjay said:
Seems likely that for at least a year, some fans are going to gnash their teeth over the choice of Mizzou. Okay, we get it you don’t like it. And, considering how fast the tickets sold, I am not buying @JayHawkFanToo’s contention that 90% of KU fans are against it. Yes, WSU might have sold out, too. But who cares at this point. The decision is over.
Of course, if KU doesn’t win the title this year, we know what will be blamed.
Nice try.
First of all, 100% of KU fans are for the game but at least 90% of the fans are against playing MU. Look at the various KU sports related forums and social media such as Facebook and Twitter and you will see overwhelming opposition, again not to the game but to the opponent. I live in the KC Metro Area and in the last week I have talked to literally dozens of actual KU fans, since this is a popular topic around these parts, and not one supported playing MU.
KU could be playing North Korea or Iran and tickets would still sell out in minutes. You could be opposed to your kid’s future spouse but you would still attend the wedding, right? 9,000 tickets to sell is not that big of a deal and not at all an indicator of approval of the opponent. Most of the tickets were sold to donors for whom this is more of social than a sports event, and students; no tickets were left for sale to the general public.
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@JayHawkFanToo Well I’m not against it so 89.99999%
I say that because I think those who oppose tend to be more vocal about it.
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I agree. However on the part about being his dad’s idea and according to the article you cited:
"He didn’t mention that specifically in his public comments on Friday, making only a vague reference to an attempt to raise money after Hurricane Katrina in 2005."
I still find it odd that Coach Self would select MU.
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ParisHawk said:
@JayHawkFanToo Well I’m not against it so 89.99999%
I say that because I think those who oppose tend to be more vocal about it.
Fair enough.
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I hope the hoops charity game idea sweeps the country…and at all levels of play, Division 1 right on down to Jr. High. But I am still opposed to Self’s choice of opponent. KU should totally leave those traitors in their own garbage heap.
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This series is back on. Bank on it.
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@HighEliteMajor Uh huh.
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@KUSTEVE “If possible, speak in drive thru order taker lingo, as they are fluent in this language.”
I fear that KU will always have that football-player-stuck-in-the-drive-thru-window thing to live down, so you might choose a different insult!
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Remember Missouri has done some good things like invent the tooth brush, because if it was invented anywhere else it’d be a teeth brush. If meth and whiskey were vitamins people from Missouri would be the healthiest alive. Missouri where the men are men and the sheep are scared.
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Any idea if this game is on National television?
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joeloveshawks said:
Any idea if this game is on National television?
Pay per view for 40 bucks
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I was wondering how much. Had to be $40 or else people who bought $40 tickets because it wouldn’t be televised might have gotten upset.
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@Kcmatt7 kinda stinks in a way because I’m not buying a practice game for $40. I know I’m a tight ass but I’ve already donated to hurricane relief twice and that’s just too high. I suppose someone will buy it and it will raise more money ig.
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I’m not buying it either and I have donated to hurricane relief. I’ll listen on the radio.
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I plan on buying it with a group of friends and just split the cost 4 or 5 ways.
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Signed up! Incidentally, to continue the tax issue previously mentioned about tickets, no info given on deductibility. I think it probably isn’t deductible because you get to watch the event and $40 might be the value for PPV. The company donating all fees must get the deduction. Might be more on this sometime.
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$40 for a hyped up scrimmage (yes, I know is a charity fund raiser…) is a steep amount for a lot of people and it is really more of a quid pro quo. Considering that a single NBA game is $6.99 and you can buy the entire season for around $120 (?) the PPV seems very high…yes again, I know…it is for charity. I wish they would have made it $10 and they would have had 10 time more people getting it and raising a larger sum in the process. I visited with a several KU fans today and none are getting the PPV but a couple would have at $10.
I contribute/buy constantly tax deductible tickets, school fund raisers, charity events and so on and I don’t believe I have ever kept track of those under $100 or claimed them on my taxes and I don’t believe I am atypical; most people I know except for very few are the same way so the tax angle is really partially or mostly irrelevant, at least it is for me. Considering that you are getting something for your “contribution” it might not even be tax deductible.
I donate to charities with the lower overhead such as Catholic Charities which consistently has a very low overhead as well as St.Jude’s; I no longer donate to the Susan G. Komen fund since it has become very political and donates large sums to organizations that I don’t care for and unrelated to their primary objective. Also, any call I get related to the Fraternal Order of Police I hang up since they are for-profit businesses getting the bulk of the money and a tiny fraction going to the Police, basically a legalized scam.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think the cost has to do with the price of tickets. You risk pissing off donors if you have the PPV be less than the cost of a ticket when you originally advertised that it wouldn’t be televised.
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@Kcmatt7 bingo!!! We have a winner!
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There is a huge difference between watching the event live at the arena than on a PPV stream. Typically the actual tickets are considerably more expensive than PPV. Do you really think that it would not have sold out if it was announced it would be on PPV? I personally think it would not have made any difference at all.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think it would have sold out. But, they didn’t plan to stream it originally. And advertised it that they wouldn’t stream it. So to make it less than the cost of a ticket could possibly piss people off who only bought a ticket because they were told several times that it wasn’t going to be on TV.
I am not arguing that the price should be lower. I think it should. I am not arguing that they wouldn’t have sold out. I think they would have.
I just think they are trying to be fair. Nobody gets to witness this game for less than $40.
I don’t agree with it. But I do see the logic behind it.
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Sure glad it don’t cost the same to watch a game at home as it does to watch it at AFH.
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I thought actual tickets for the game were $25, except for the very expensive court side ones.
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@JayHawkFanToo That is possible, I don’t know about the prices before they were going to be offered to the general public. I do know that $40 was going to be the cheapest you could get public tickets though.
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Watch people pay for the scrimmage on PPV. Why? KU-MU. Rivalry deniers are losing.
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What number of PPV buyers do you believe would make your case? 10,000? 50,000? 100,000? How few would it take to disprove your premise? Less than 10,000? 5,000?
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@JayHawkFanToo Actually, I never disagreed with his premise that huge numbers of fans would want it renewed. I only disagreed with @HighEliteMajor over the reasons people, including Self, had for not wanting to play them. Value judgment difference, not a misunderstanding of rivalry popularity. He kept attributing it to cowardice and the like. I to simple distaste for MU.
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Ok, fair enough. Would you care to answer the question I had for @HighEliteMajor about how many PPV buys it would take to prove or disprove the point?
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@JayHawkFanToo Nah, the popularity is good for the fundraising. I wouldn’t care on the rivalry itself if it was 1 person or 10 million–I still don’t like 'em and absent the charity would prefer not to play other games even if everyone disagreed.
Then again, I cannot stand cilantro, BMWs, rap (or pretty much music after 1982), Warhol, weightlifting, and sweaters, all of which are popular with millions of people. To each, his/her/its own!
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@JayHawkFanToo Nothing can disprove my premise, because my premise is irrefutable. The rivalry is good for KU and we are better for having it. 100+ years of history, “hate” (in the sports sense), historic games, never ending banter, Norm, Roy, Sutherland, Stipo, crackers shakin’, disgusting Antlers – I mean, come on. This is done. I have never heard anyone refer to KSU fans as the “trash to the west.” The irrational vitriol proves my point even further. While I was critical of the statement “trash to the east” referring to MU, it makes me chuckle. It’s awesome when we talk MU. I may whine that it’s over the top, but life sometimes is over the top. It proves why our competition with MU is different. Our discussions here and the incredible interest in a mere scrimmage proves the point. But there is no proof needed. Everyone knows. And we know why we have not been playing MU. Only one reason. Because Bill Self says we weren’t. Now he says we are. When he hears that packed arena for a scrimmage – he’ll know too. The fact is, he already knows. We’re outside the five year statute of limitations for hurt feelings (statute of repose is irrelevant because we’re aware of our alleged injury, right @mayjay?)
@mayjay2 While my chicken clucking around AFH reference may have been what stuck out here, and that’s good, my rationale goes far beyond cowardice. Of course, I don’t think Bill Self is a coward. The chicken clucking thing was how it makes us appear, and really, I meant that more related to WSU. But the point is a good one.
Regardless, not playing MU or WSU relies on extremely strained logic if one is to compare to the balance of our schedule.
I think we don’t play MU because Bill Self felt betrayed by MU. That’s it. Just like everyone else. Could he be a bit concerned about losing in a one game shot? Sure. At least can appear that way.
I have attacked that rationale for not playing MU, because, again, it is very strained. The hypocrisy of playing others that left (CU, NU, TAM), the value of the rivalry to KU basketball, the enjoyment it brings fans, how it makes us appear as a university to refuse to play, etc. Having a truly despised rival is part of being a great team/program. My position is not reliant on hurt feelings – feelings being SOLELY emotional. The only logic for not playing MU has been voiced many times, was that they were the first to mumble realignment. I grant that. They did mention it first. To buy that, is to believe that if MU had not mumbled it, we’d still be one happy 12 team family. That is inconceivable. No one believes that. And the rest is emotional.
On the scales of logic, MU mumbling realignment is far outweighed by the steel on the other side.
No clucking chickens this weekend. We need to pound them by 20. Short rotation. Game on.
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@HighEliteMajor I sit corrected on the MU rationale.
It is kind of funny, now that this is scheduled. The sun has risen every day, no worse pestilence and plagues than usual, and it is being done to help victims of disasters and hasn’t caused new ones. My annoyance at MU has diminished. Life goes on. #Shocked!
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I have mentioned that the value to KU fans is irrefutable. From Bill Self, “It was a bigger game because it meant so much to the fan base.” Bigger than what? Nearly everything else, right? Save some late NCAA tourney games. And that’s really been a main point. We loved it. It was great for us.
And Matt Tait’s article is great – http://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2017/oct/20/now-more-than-ever-border-war-about-the-/
May we all join hands as one in our desire to absolutely and unequivocally destroy MU tomorrow?
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Here is the link for streaming the game ($40) -
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Again, if your premise is irrefutable then the PPV audience should be huge, wouldn’t you agree?
On the other hand, if the PPV audience ends up being small then your premise is effectively refuted, again, wouldn’t you agree?
Let’s try this one more time, what is the magic number above which your premise is valid or below which is not? Not really a hard question…
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@JayHawkFanToo It is an easy question. But I simply don’t know what is high or low.
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@JayHawkFanToo There are many easy questions. It is arriving at the answers that is hard.
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I just hope we don’t lose. That would suck, even though it’s not an official game.
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If you have confidence in your premise it should not be that hard.
Considering how fast tickets sold we can assume each school could have sold out the arena by itself with additional people waiting; that is 20-30 thousand additional fans that would have wanted to watch the game live and would be candidates to buy PPV. If only one third of those do it, that is about 10,000 buys locally. Add another 10,000 per school nationally and you should have 30,000 PPV buys…if the game is as big as you claim. A KU-UK or KU-Duke game would easily sell that many.
As comparison, UFC fights routinely sell well over a million buys at $100. The Maywether-McGregor sold 4.5 million with a revenue of well over $400 million.
