2018 Kansas Jayhawks Football Recruiting
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Until I see an Air Raid QB have a successful NFL career, there is no way I can agree with your premise. All you need is a guy who can sling it 50 yards down the field. Baylor, OSU, TCU and TTU are proof. Let’s not pretend Briles landed 3 amazing QBs in a row. That TTU is some place of QB prodigy. Or that OSU has done anything special with a QB. Where are any of those QBs now? Not one of those guys has had a successful pro career. Why? Because they can’t even read a defense. It is all scheming to get guys open and the QB just has to key off of one guy. It is why they run the no huddle. It allows the coaches to read the defense so the QB doesn’t have to. Now, how many of those receivers have had successful NFL careers for those same teams in that same time span ? Tons. Tons of Big XII receivers have had solid pro careers. Ifso facto, not the QB that is winning these games. It is all scheme and talent on the outside.
And yes, non football factories put their best player at QB. And very rarely are those the best teams that year. It is a last resort strategy. To take a player out of what would be his best position and put him at QB because you don’t have anyone who could get that guy the ball is a last resort strategy. I have had to coach teams like that too. And I can tell you that it isn’t an option at the College Level if you are trying to build a competitive program. If you end up with a guy who is an athlete and plays QB, fine. That is a bonus. But you don’t make that priority #1. Priority #1 is finding a guy who can simply get your best athletes the ball anywhere on the field.
Rarely is the QB the actual problem, unless it is the fact that the QB can’t throw a football. If an offense is struggling, it is typically because the coaches’ play calling or the defense is more athletic than your offensive players. If you continue the full-court press on recruiting like we have been, and build up depth, we will be able to have 7 or 8 studs on the field at a time. Enough to overcome and QB deficiency. It is easy to say Reesing was a great QB when he was throwing to 4 guys who ended up making NFL rosters.
Problem for KU is that they just don’t have a D1 caliber QB at the moment or the athletes to even make a D1 QB look good when we do get one. You can say, put an athlete at QB in the short-term. Just like we are some shitty high school football team. But at some point, if you are looking to build a program capable of going on BCS Bowl Runs, you have to stack your team with talent. That 07 team had 9 pros on it. And Todd Reesing wasn’t one of them. We can get that level of talent to KU in those numbers. Maybe not every season like Bama. But we can align the stars once every 3 or 4 years like KState does.
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@Kcmatt7 Newsflash: College football is not the NFL and it takes different skill sets to be successful at each level. Look at Russell Wilson, he wasn’t even good enough to win the starting job at NC State and yet he was good enough to win a Super Bowl.
Therefore, I DON’T CARE IF A KU QUARTERBACK IS SUCCESSFUL IN THE NFL. I care that a KU QB is successful at KU. KU will never be able to have the kind of talent to operate in manner you wish. You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first. KU has to find ways to win just like Baylor and OSU have and that’s through finding great college QB’s even if they don’t have an NFL future.
You mentioned KU ended up with 9 players drafted off the Orange Bowl team in the years after the Orange Bowl. Consider that Alabama just had 10 players drafted in the 2017 NFL draft alone and still couldn’t win a national title. They still got beat by the Air Raid and QB who could run. Do you Clemson fans care more about Watson being successful with the Texans or that he won a national title at Clemson? Do Kansas fans largely care that Todd Reesing never got a shot at the NFL? Hell no, we care that he won the Orange Bowl.
Do you know why so many programs run some kind of variation of the spread offense? It’s because it exploits the fact that teams don’t have NFL talent all over the field and we’re even seeing those principles work their way to the NFL because of its ability create 1 on 1 match ups and spread the defenders out as much as possible. Throw in a mobile QB that probably doesn’t have an NFL future, and you force defenses to spy the QB taking away another person to cover the receivers. This is why RG3, Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, and those types were so successful in college. They had big enough arms to stretch the field, but they were also mobile enough to force defenses to keep spying them which created more 1 on 1 match ups.
This what David Beaty is trying to build to because he knows KU is never going to outrecruit Texas or Oklahoma or ever have the talent that Alabama, FSU, USC, and those types of programs will always have. He has to exploit match ups and you do that by having a great college QB.
So please stop trying pretend that KU can be successful in college football by trying to build an NFL style roster because it’s never going to happen. KU is going to be successful in college football by building a college style roster because a college style roster will be successful at college football.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 You clearly don’t know the Russell Wilson story very well. Stud in College. Every season. Coach got pissed he was committing too much time to baseball and decided to moved on.
And, again, my point is that KU DOES NOT NEED A STUD NFL QB. How you got anything but that from any of my posts I’m not sure.
Do YOU know why so many teams run spread offenses? It’s because it forces the D into M2M, puts smaller defenders on the field and because they have talent on the outside to exploit 1v1 matchups. And because QBs can’t throw guys open at the college level. NFL QBs can barely throw guys open. Coaches want easy reads and schemes so that they can take as much away from the QB and control as much as possible. QB in an up tempo spread offense makes hardly any decisions. So a “great college QB” is really someone who can throw an accurate ball 40 yards down the field. That’s it.
I’m not saying KU needs to recruit with UT, OU etc. I don’t even think we can recruit with TTU, OSU or Baylor. That is why I said we should look at KSU as an example… Young Bill Snyder built up depth, let the cream rise to the top, and had a decade of great football. And then since Snyder has been back, he has had another solid run. 15 of his 25 seasons have been 8 wins or more. 20 of 25 seasons he has been bowl eligible. Absurd.
QBs with 8+ wins under Snyder:
- Chad May
- Matt Miller
- Bryan Kavanagh
- Michael Bishop
- Johnathan Beasley
- Ell Robinson
- Colin Klein
- Jake Waters
- Jesse Ertz
Is he some friggen QB guru? Or is it that these are the WRs those QBs threw to:
- Kevin Lockett
- Andre Coleman
- Darnell McDonald
- Justin Swift
- Quincy Morgan
- Rod Cartwright
- Taco Wallace
- Darren Sproles
- Chris Harper
- Tyler Lockett
If you count, that is 11 receivers in the league during those same seasons… Find a guy to get your talent the ball, absolutely. But it is that talent wins games. We can recruit better than KSU. But we have to learn how to build the same depth and culture that allows KSU to compete with better teams. (Typically it hasn’t been with a mobile QB. Bishop and Klein you remember because they were heisman candidates. Other guys won just as many games).
A more talented KSU is a very scary program. A less talented OSU or Baylor isn’t.
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@Kcmatt7 @Texas-Hawk-10 ah yes a football debate. I love it!!
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@Kcmatt7 Snyder has averaged 8 wins a year over his 25 years. 8 wins is the average so using that as the standard isn’t a great way measure who’s been great since 8 wins is an average season. 10+ wins is a better measure for who’s been great for Snyder.
Colin Klein is the only KSU QB to win 10+ games in a season (2×) since Snyder returned in 2009. Klein and Roberson are the only 2 QB’s to win conference titles in Snyder’s 25 years. Those guys didn’t have any better of a supporting cast than other QB’s, they were just better QB’s than the rest.
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All I know is KU has sucked since they last had a good qb in Todd Reising. Seems pretty important.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 8 wins is not average in the country. So, sure it is a great way to measure it. Bill Snyder, through depth and talent, can win 8 games with anybody behind the center. Something I, as KU fan, would be ecstatic about. And would hope that is what we try to build. Instead of being a crappy version of OSU or Baylor or TCU or Tech.
But to your point, really? Darren Sproles isn’t a supporting cast? 2200 All purpose yards (#1 in the Country that year) to go with 18 touchdowns and 5th in the Heisman vote. What a shit supporting cast. I mean, Roberson literally had to put that entire team on his back.
Klein, had no support either? Just two NFL receivers to pick up his noodle arm that could barely throw the ball 30 yards down field and a running back who put up 1000 yards from scrimmage at 5 yards a carry and ran for 15 TDs. Can you believe that shit? Klein took them all the way by himself. I’m confident I watched several plays they only had 5 linemen and him out there and he completed passes to himself.
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@Kcmatt7 Did I say 8 wins was average for every coach? No, I didn’t, I said 8 wins was average for Snyder because 202 wins over 25 seasons is 8.02 wins per season. David Beaty’s average would be 1 win per season at this point. Funny how math works isn’t it.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I was stating a fact, not correcting you.
8 wins is not the average in the country. So if we can build a program that consistently gets 8 wins with a crappy QB, I think you prove my point.
Anyways, I doubt we end up agreeing, I’d rather agree to disagree at this point. Just remember the next time you think KU has a “Gret College QB,” check to see who he is throwing the ball to. Makes all the difference in the world.
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@dylans Todd Reesing also had a 5-7 season his senior year to go with his 8-5 Junior season. The team progressively got worse, despite the QB.
That 2009 (Senior season) team started 5-0, and finished 0-7. Reesing threw only 13 TD to his 8 INTs in Conference play. If you take you the ISU game which was part of that 5-0 start, he threw 9 TDs and 7 INTs in the last 7 games.
Just thought I’d throw that out there.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@dylans Todd Reesing also had a 5-7 season his senior year to go with his 8-5 Junior season. The team progressively got worse, despite the QB.
That 2009 (Senior season) team started 5-0, and finished 0-7. Reesing threw only 13 TD to his 8 INTs in Conference play. If you take you the ISU game which was part of that 5-0 start, he threw 9 TDs and 7 INTs in the last 7 games.
Just thought I’d throw that out there.
Nevermind that 0-7 coincided with Reesing injuring his groin combined with the team quitting on Mangino that year after the Arist Wright incident.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Excuses… They were on a downhill trajectory from 2007 already. We got curb stomped 4 of those 7 games.
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@Kcmatt7 Teams that quit on coaches tend to lose pretty badly.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 so do teams without solid depth at positions besides QB. 2009 we relied on Meier and Briscoe too much. 2007 we had 7 receivers catch 20+ balls. And Aquib Talib who caught 8 passes for 4 TDs at an explosive 23 yards per reception.
2009 we had only 5 guys with 20+ catches and only 2 of them averaged over 10 yards per reception. Compared to 2007 where we had 5 guys average over 10 yards per reception.
Teams don’t quit when they are winning games. A 5-0 team doesn’t quit. I don’t care if a coach chews a player out and pokes him in the chest. That team doesn’t quit on the field.
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Added 3 D-linemen this week, 2 x 3stars, 1 2 star. 2 of them are juco.
What I like is 1 5star WR, 2 4star WRs, a 4star RB, a 3-4star dual threat TX QB on the roster. Not sure if aTm’s Quiv Gonzalez was a 4 or 5 star, so I counted him as a 4.
KU currently with the 12th ranked football recruiting class… (may change, of course).
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Other than the two recycled QBs during Weiss tenure, I believe the only recruited 5 star player was Talib? Looks like this might be the best class ever at KU???
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Kcmatt7 said:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Excuses… They were on a downhill trajectory from 2007 already. We got curb stomped 4 of those 7 games.
I think that highlights just how important “Sparky” was for KU. He was fine and the 'Hawks were 5-0. Reising gets hurt and KU loses their quarterback and 7 in a row. — I know Todd played those games he just was average to below average as a qb while playing injured. Not the good QB he was while healthy.
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@JayHawkFanToo I believe Talib was an over achieving 3 star.
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@JayHawkFanToo I think that Gill landed a couple of 5* running backs if I’m not mistaken. But maybe they were just 4*
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I seem to remember that when Christ and Heaps came to KU there was a thread on the subject and the consensus was that there had been only one 5 star rated player previously or at least in the last 20 years or so; for some reason I thought it was Talib or maybe Anthony Collins? Turner Gill recruited decent players but I don’t believe he had any 5 star rated players.
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@JayHawkFanToo I thought Christ and Heaps were the first 2 5star players for ku. I’m not 100% sure, but it seems that Beaty/Hull have KU on an upswing.
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No doubt the incoming class looks impressive. Two or three more like it and KU could be contending in the conference.
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@Kcmatt7 @Texas-Hawk-10 One other thing to think about is the 08 and 09 teams had lost the majority of that 07 defense and were flat out terrible by all accounts. I think only TGs defense of 2011 was worse. I could see there was something wrong with Ressing early in the Colorado game, a game we win with an average defense as well as the Fizzou game and KSU is a win with a healthy Ressing. The Wright kid along with sweet Lou (perkins) are two of the most hated people bye most KU fans I know. Still cracks me up a 6’3 200 and some odd pound athlete was hurt because MM poked him SMH what a pansy, he wouldn’t of made it thru middle school where i grew up.
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@kjayhawks Just stop. If you seriously think that one poke is what ruined Mangino, I’ve got some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you. That was the culmination of many incidents over a long period of time.
Mangino was well known around Lawrence to be extremely verbally abusive to his players and others around Lawrence including parking officials, HS refs, and others.
I know what the atmosphere of that was because that was my senior year at KU and I was and still am in regular contact with players on that team. If Arist Wright was such a pansy, why did the locker room side with Wright and not Mangino? Very telling about everyone’s opinion of Mangino when the players are not publicly defending Mangino to the media.
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Well while we have another commit, we also have another - - - - -De-Commit
Nick Williams a 6’8 - - - 260 lb OL out of St Louis committed yesterday, a 3 Star, that was ranked 13th out of Missouri. - -Had offers from KSU- - -Minnesota, Purdue , Illinois and others. - -Not bad. - -Thing is 6’8 - -and 260? - - seems a little lean for his height doesn’t it? - - Maybe not.
BUT on the other end, feeling kind of down, kind of depressed. - - I mean we all knew this could happen, just hope we can cut it off at the head before it becomes a runaway freight train.
Aaron Brule the safety from Louisiana de-committed a 3 star. - -My fear is when there is de-committements from there that slows our momentum we had with the other kids from La. - -Hopefully we can hang on to the other 3 that came from there this year - - going to be really hard especially when the high school season starts.
With the announcement from Zenger yesterday about a 300 million dollar renovation should really help in the recruiting, 300 million can make a lot of difference in the stadium and recruiting purposes. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer54 said:
Well while we have another commit, we also have another - - - - -De-Commit
Nick Williams a 6’8 - - - 260 lb OL out of St Louis committed yesterday, a 3 Star, that was ranked 13th out of Missouri. - -Had offers from KSU- - -Minnesota, Purdue , Illinois and others. - -Not bad. - -Thing is 6’8 - -and 260? - - seems a little lean for his height doesn’t it? - - Maybe not.
BUT on the other end, feeling kind of down, kind of depressed. - - I mean we all knew this could happen, just hope we can cut it off at the head before it becomes a runaway freight train.
Aaron Brule the safety from Louisiana de-committed a 3 star. - -My fear is when there is de-committements from there that slows our momentum we had with the other kids from La. - -Hopefully we can hang on to the other 3 that came from there this year - - going to be really hard especially when the high school season starts.
With the announcement from Zenger yesterday about a 300 million dollar renovation should really help in the recruiting, 300 million can make a lot of difference in the stadium and recruiting purposes. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Gotta win games. We win games the Louisiana kids will come. People are in their ears about KU sucking. Can’t make that a reality. Have to give them some hope this year.
Also, 260 in HS is massive. Odds are he will redshirt that first year anyways and put 30-40 LBS on.
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-Thing is 6’8 - -and 260? - - seems a little lean for his height doesn’t it? - - Maybe not.
A player with those numbers is a well proportioned and solidly built athlete and not a slow, overweight player like many linemen are.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’ll agree that MM was hard on his players and held them accountable for there actions. I have two friends that played on that team one as a walk on and one as a starter both from the same HS that said their HS coach was meaner than MM. They told me MM was an asshole but never did anything that bothered them, Perkins on the other hand they hate and claim is a snake that split up the team bye telling guys that ever got yelled at were being mistreated, said Perkins had meetings almost daily with players trying to dig up crap on MM. MM was fired because he had dirt on sweet Lew Perkins, the guy famous for ruining 2 university football programs in Kansas. But he is long gone and it don’t matter now i guess.
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Add Elmore Hempstead, juco corner to the list.
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Not trying to be “that guy”, but honestly, who in their right mind would want to play football at Kansas? Big fish in little pond syndrome? I just don’t get it. Now if we ever get a real coach - maybe.
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@nuleafjhawk We need to pay more attention to recruits’ social media links. Then offer all their friends and girlfriends academic scholarships.
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The wheels have pretty much fell off of what once was s solid class, who knew a third year coach not winning against s single FBS team would do that. Smh why is Beaty still here.
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kjayhawks said:
The wheels have pretty much fell off of what once was s solid class, who knew a third year coach not winning against s single FBS team would do that. Smh why is Beaty still here.
maybe time to shut it down , were losing money big time - take a reprive -try and come back - hell I am so frustrated even me one of the most loyal to Beaty is ready to say - - - screw it - this program is complete scambles. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@kjayhawks Beaty is still here because no other coach in America will take the job except me - and Zenger won’t hire me. And I’d dang near work for free.
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The football program generates considerably more revenue than the basketball program; does not seem logical but it is true.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
The football program generates considerably more revenue than the basketball program; does not seem logical but it is true.
TRUE I hear you, but I’m not sure that in the current state that OUR football program is in as of right now if that’s truly the case in our situation at the present or not. - -Lots of empty seats. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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It is not the gate receipts that generate income, it is the Conference TV contract …and other teams going to bowls. The football team could play in an empty stadium and still generate bigger revenue than the basketball program.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
It is not the gate receipts that generate income, it is the Conference TV contract …and other teams going to bowls. The football team could play in an empty stadium and still generate bigger revenue than the basketball program. Oh ok – -my bad - -I should of known that - -cause it’s the same way in Basketball with how teams do in the tourney I think too right and TV appearances? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@nuleafjhawk Doren at NC state wanted the job a few years back. Here’s the deal with finding a coach, if you pay high enough someone will come end of story.
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They better be willing to pay a lot of money because coaching at KU seems to be a good way to end your career…in 2 or 3 years, although they send you away with a nice retirement package.
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@kjayhawks Doran wouldn’t my personal dream coach, but when you say if you pay them enough they will come, I have to vehemently disagree. Nick Saban, Urban Meyer - guys like that wouldn’t come to KU if you paid them a billion dollars a month. No frickin way a real coach comes to KU. The only chance we have is to stumble on a good coach like K-State did.
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@nuleafjhawk Strangely Harbaugh did flirt with KU. His wife’s family is from KC. Not that it’s likely, but never say never! There is that .000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance that KU will land a good coach, he’ll turn the program around, and he won’t leave for greener pastures.
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Nobody mentioning that Jason WR de-committing… That was a long time coming
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Didn’t a couple of high profile recruits decommitted recently?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Didn’t a couple of high profile recruits decommitted recently?
Yeah Jason did, he was a 5 star prospect according to rivals. Not nearly as high on other sites.
Their remaining top prospects are also getting serious attention from bigger schools
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I read somewhere that the once promising class had fallen completely apart.
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@Kcmatt7 @Texas-Hawk-10 You forget even before the man hunt, KU had one of the worst defenses in major college football.
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@kjayhawks I definitely think Bowen should be fired. I’m on the fence on if they should fire Beaty. I think they have to give him one more year to show they will give the next coach the same leniency. But I do agree, this season was a complete embarrassment and that Beaty wouldn’t make it a 4th year for any other program in the country.
Just don’t know who would take the job or that throwing millions at a guy fixes the program.
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@kjayhawks I like Bowen well enough as a position coach, DB’s have been one of the few position groups KU regularly sends to the NFL so Bowen is doing something right as far as player development goes.
I think he’s a horrible play caller who absolutely failed to hide the weakness of the secondary this year and instead exposed them even worse.
This was a year the defense needed to the aggressiveness up to 11 to create as much pressure as possible to force quick throws so hide the inexperience of the secondary. Instead, Bowen called a lot of 3 and 4 man rushes that routinely failed to get pressure on the QB and forced the secondary to cover for extended time which ended up with a lot of big pass plays surrendered.
