Josh Jackson
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@elpoyo I hope so. Either way, I’m happy he’s a Jayhawk and that we get to watch him play chess twice a week.
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@Kcmatt7 lol world peace is still achievable!
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I almost choked to death… swallowing my tongue.
If you are convinced then who is left to play devil’s advocate?
Just for old time’s sake… don’t you want to beitch slap someone? At least pile on top of Carlton.
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Jackson’s the kind of presumed OAD that gets anti-OAD guys to start opening their minds to presumed OADs. Now, if keying a car is part of his repertoire, I reserve the right to retract.
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@HighEliteMajor If keying a car is part of his repertoire, that would mean that he is human. And young. I never keyed a car, but i did equally (or greater) stupid feats when i was a teenager. I have repented of them, but i did them just the same.
If he in fact is perfect, then he should change his name to Jesus and forget basketball and get on with taking us to the real promised land.
Amen.
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@nuleafjhawk If they find he did what they think he did, he’s committed a felony according to the article. Not cool in my book!
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@nuleafjhawk 100% disagree. Doing something like keying a car on purpose is wrong. Not human. Purposely damaging someone is not human.
Accidentally hitting a car and running because you are scared makes you human. Getting in a fight at a bar is stupid and human. Things that you don’t plan to do and are reactionary make you human.
Ruining someone’s car is not “human.” It’s F***ing wrong. If someone did that to my truck I couldn’t get it fixed because I have liability only. And if that happened to me in college, well I wouldn’t have had the money to fix $2,600 of damage. And if I couldn’t have drove I wouldn’t have been able to get the job I have now because I had to drive from Lawrence to KC everyday. So purposely screwing with someone’s life is not human. Not at 19 years old. 19 year olds do know better than that. They do know right and wrong. In fact, it is a felony. It isn’t just illegal it is beyond that. It is a freaking felony. So don’t come in defending someone who is a piece of shit on purpose. Because that isn’t human nature. Imagine if it happened to you. I’m sure you wouldn’t just say “it happens. kids being kids. Human nature.”
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Hmm, that sounds a little too black and white for my tastes…
Humans can be very upset, do something stupid that they will feel terrible about later and still be human in my book.
You say hitting someone in a bar is human??? Maybe rather than striking someone repeatedly and possibly causing thousands of dollars in medical bills (and pain and possible disfigurement), an equally upset person might do an alternatively reactionary stupid thing while they were upset and key a guy’s car that resulted in no personal injury.
Are always sure you are 100% certain of all cases of right and wrong? I know I’m not as there are way too many grey areas and unknown variables in life to be that certain in condemning the actions occurring at events I wasn’t at.
I understand where you’re coming from, and I too am upset about all the crap going in our beloved program lately. But your logic does not resonate with me and I prefer to get more facts and information before passing judgement on others. Maybe that’s just me though.
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@drgnslayr said:
Just for old time’s sake… don’t you want to beitch slap someone? At least pile on top of Carlton.
Apparently someone’s been reading Ecclesiastes … or maybe listening to The Byrds.
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@Kcmatt7 Of course it’s wrong - MOST of the things humans do are wrong. Hopefully he’s smart enough to recognize that it’s wrong and not do it (or anything like it) again. I don’t know the circumstances. I doubt if you do either. Who knows - maybe jealous about a girl? A teenager keying a car over something like that ? - not right, but not unheard of.
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@nuleafjhawk I’m not accusing him of anything. I’m just saying in general, I don’t agree with it. But you are right, people mostly screw up.
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@nuleafjhawk Stephen Garcia, the highest rated quarterback (I believe) to be recruited to S Carolina, keyed his professor’s car and was suspended by Steve Spurrier. After a few more incidents, including alcohol stuff, he was booted from the program. He still has a few qb records here, I think, but all in all a cautionary tale of immaturity derailing a possibly brilliant future.
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“Of course it’s wrong - MOST of the things humans do are wrong.”
True… “perfection” is saved for John Calipari.
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Vandalizing property has always pissed me off.
I’d rather someone steal property… at least the property stays intact.
Anyways… Josh just happened to be with Vick. It appears that he didn’t participate in this alleged activity.
Not to judge… but it appears that Vick and Carlton both need to mature and can use additional supervision moving forward.
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@nuleafjhawk said:
MOST of the things humans do are wrong.
My dad used to have a coffee cup that said: “I’ve never made a mistake. Once I thought I did, but I was wrong.”
This discussion made me think of that. I figured you might appreciate that humor.
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@Kcmatt7 Well, I agree with you also. I think vandalism is stupid and wrong and if he/they did do it, they should be dealt with like any one else who gets caught vandalizing stuff. But, I feel like we’re all on edge with EVERYTHING that’s been going on (or at least rumored to be going on) around the KU BBall team lately. I hope it’s all BS and lies. I’ve always taken great pride in being a fan of a program that’s probably AT LEAST as clean as anyone else in the country. I have secretly wished that we wouldn’t recruit kids who, in my opinion, who were “punks”, or who had attitudinal problems. For instance, knowing what we know about Grayson Allen - I wouldn’t have him on our team if it GUARANTEED us a national championship. I hope and pray that Josh Jackson is not involved in this activity, but if he is - i hope he is punished accordingly.
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I was a teenager in the 90s. And in my circle, we had a few circumstances where things like this happened. people got their houses egged for dating other people’s ex girlfriends, houses got TP’d for people being a-holes, an ex girlfriend smashed her ex boyfriends headlights because some things he said to her that made her feel bad. One friend smashed another’s window in response to a somewhat accidental head injury. While at the time it sucked, people dealt with each of these circumstances and moved on. None of this was a police matter. I don’t think any of it needed to be or should have been.
In regards to what you said @Kcmatt7, you said you wouldn’t be able to drive with $2k damage… Well you would if it was a keyed car. You would just be driving a keyed car! And that’s what I would have done. Doesnt mean I’d be happy about it. But even if he did it, which we don’t know, Josh didn’t screw up her ability to succeed, or make money. The car isn’t ruined. It’s just ugly.
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So I don’t think not valuing someone’s stuff is inhuman. It’s immature, maybe. But it’s a perfect way to get back at someone. Who knows why it was done? We don’t. Nobody was endangered. Nobody was hurt. In my opinion this is foremost a moral matter, and it should not be a legal one, and besides not knowing who did what, we don’t know enough of the facts to determine to what extent it was justified.
I’m bothered by a fear I have that people have replaced morals with legality and believe that disobeying laws makes someone bad, while doing only legal things makes someone good.
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As far as basketball playing goes- in my opinion- as much as I loved watching Wigs, and love watching his pro game, I think JJack appears to me more engaged in the college game while he is after all, here playing it. He is a driving force towards victory even with other more senior players around him. He still shows up ready to be dominant. He doesn’t wait for his turn.
The other stuff, When it is violent, I have a strong opinion. When I have no facts, I tend to wait and see. I know that people make mistakes, and sometimes just being in the wrong place/wrong time looks bad. When I don’t know- I try not to comment. I can comment later after we all know details.
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@JayhawksandChill JJ was always going to be the better college player between himself and Wiggins. JJ’s game is just much more suited to the college game than Wiggins was. Wiggins game was always gear towards the NBA which we’re now seeing him start to become a star alongside Towns in Minnesota.
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@JayhawksandChill Agreed on Josh - I was tempted to post a “who’s your favorite KU OAD of all time?” Thread… (don’t everybody scream "Josh Shelby!!! All at once
) before these latest allegations surfaced.
No question in my mind JJ is hands down my favorite - his effort is amazing… and yes he makes typical frosh mistakes and does some stupid things, but he is seriously talented and CLEARLY NOT protecting the future NBA goods. At times he reminds me a bit of Jamari (effort not talent lol) passing, rebounding playing d, hustling up and down the court… our other OADS kinda disappeared for long stretches when league play started. and yes he is clearly earning playing time.let us hope the car vandalizing investigation is just an unproven allegation… I have no other detailed info that I can find on the net so far…
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@elpoyo I just looked at Kenpom, looked at the stats for Wiggs and for Josh.
Josh is out performing Wiggins in nearly all categories except free throw %
JJ is a STUD!
I cant remember exactly how many ppg Wiggs had. I think it was around 17.5.
Josh’s ppg is right at 16 now. All he has to do is work on his FT shooting. Dude has better handles, he can play and guard 1-4, something Wiggins didnt do at KU.
Regarding alleged incidents: Lets ALL try to treat them as alleged at this point. Untrue even! NONE of us know what the hell happened. We cant judge anything at all.
Personally, I think I smell a rat. Something doesnt add up to me and Im personally avoiding any such judgement of Vick or JJ until ALL of the facts get told. ALL of them. To me, this is a non issue until proven other wise.
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@Lulufulu I’m with ya on Vick and JJ.
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It really isn’t fair trying to make exact apples-to-apples comparison between Wigs and Josh. We have a very different team and offense now versus when Wigs was here.
It is clear that Josh has quite a few more moves than Wigs had. Though Wigs was a bit more athletic.
I think Wigs would have done much better with our current offense. Having the 4 out - 1 in would help clear out the post area for his drives.
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@drgnslayr for whatever reason…offense around him–or playing to save the merchandise, Wiggs didn’t seem to engage as aggressively as Josh does.
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@drgnslayr But what I’m noticing is the heart and doggedness and competitive fire difference between the two… not sure wigs ever had as much as JJ. even when I watch him now as a timberwolf, he comes across as somewhat lackadaisical at times. And yes, the 82 game schlepathon that is the Nation Boring Association does not lend itself to consistent effort.
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I think he did. Self wanted him to drive, drive, drive. And he tried, tried, tried. But he would often lose the ball on his drive or he would get fouled. He didn’t finish well (usually).
Josh isn’t being pushed as hard to drive. And he is just one piece around two other scoring guards. Wigs was surrounded by rookies and was asked to carry the load.
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@approxinfinity said:
I’m bothered by a fear I have that people have replaced morals with legality and believe that disobeying laws makes someone bad, while doing only legal things makes someone good.
Well put. And to put the final bizarre twist on top, too many people are far too comfortable looking for loopholes in the law, bending the law, circumventing it when the opportunity presents, or flat out assuming it doesn’t apply to them.
Hope i haven’t offended any anarchists on here…
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@bskeet said:
too many people are far too comfortable looking for loopholes in the law, bending the law, circumventing it when the opportunity presents, or flat out assuming it doesn’t apply to them.
Including some people in authority…
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@elpoyo JJ is the best player since Manning, imo. Remember when certain posters last year were saying that Coach Self couldn’t coach OADs?
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@bskeet @ParisHawk amen, both of you.
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@elpoyo Dood? That is NOT how you spell that!!! I have to suspect that Mr Elpoyo never set foot in a KU classroom unless perhaps it was as a janitor.
Maybe mutton busting at KSU or more likely jackass caretaker at misery …Either place-troll city 
JMO
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@drgnslayr Wiggs was more athletic but I think Josh uses his athleticism more effectively, thus he is over all more effective.
@KUSTEVE That Paul Pierce was awfully good. I would rank him over JJ. But not many more in the convo.
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I think Wiggins would have done a lot better on this team and his athleticism would have really shined. However, from a purely basketball perspective, 3 things set Josh apart for me:
- His ball handling skills are slightly better than Wiggins so he is able to drive in traffic
- He goes hard to the rim to destroy it (and has missed some dunks because of that) while Wiggins settled for too many finger rolls
- Biggest difference is the court vision and passing. This is one thing for me that sticks out every game. He just knows where to pass the ball the second he touches it. Wiggins wasn’t near the passer that Josh is.
Other than this, Wiggins did carry that team as a frosh so I wouldn’t undermine his capabilities. I don’t think Josh would have been able to showcase all he does on the 2014 team either.
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@KUSTEVE JJ is the kind of player that we use against Calipari’s ability to coach and develop players. JJ was going to be a star no matter where he played and do the things he’s doing now. Had he stayed home at Michigan St., he might be averaging 20+ ppg and MSU might be more than a bubble team right now.
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The biggest difference between Wiggins and Jackson is their mentality. JJ is an alpha dog and Wiggins is not. Wiggins is the more physically gifted player, better shooter, better defender, better athlete, but his reserved nature meant that he rarely took over games. Jackson is an alpha dog, he shows his emotions, he talks trash, and he has taken over games at times when necessary. He’s not a great shooter (he’s going to be a volume scorer in the NBA one day), he’s a very good defender but not quite as good as Wiggins who should’ve been All-Big 12, and he’s not quite as athletic as Wiggins. However, if you put Jackson on that 2013-14 team, he probably averages 22+ ppg because that’s his mentality. He has a scorers mentality, but he’s aware enough to know that he doesn’t have to do it all this year and willingly defers to Mason at times.
I could also see Jackson becoming the bigger star over Wiggins in the NBA because of his mentality.
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Spot on.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 One could EASILY say that JJ has totally replaced Perry Ellis, but yet 6’8 JJ seems to be more versatile than 6’8 Ellis.
I know its an imperfect comparison.
JJ > Wiggs due to competitive fire. Alpha dog, agreed with that said above.
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@drgnslayr “Perfection” reserved for John Calipari, you said…I agree. He was 75-0 in Rupp until this season when UCLA and KU visited Rupp. Now 75-2…
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@ralster he might have more fire, but Wiggs can score a ton more!
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@ralster Not quite 75-0, but pretty darn good.
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/arenarupparena.html
2 losses in 14, 1 in 13 and 12 also. But a 40 game home court win streak is in there as well.
I believe the current longes home court win streak stands at 41 games. (Neither UK or KU unfortunately)
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@Crimsonorblue22 he had a couple of nice scoring games when he was here, but I will take Josh’s attitude and competitiveness any day of the week over Wiggins.
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@HawkChamp a couple?
Your choice. Wish he would’ve played better today!
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@Crimsonorblue22 yes, a couple. The WVU game and at TCU. Nothing else over 30, IIRC
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They’re both nice players. Wiggs team wouldn’t have won the conference without him. May not have even made the dance. The team around Josh team is much better. Josh is much more productive without the ball in his hands. Wiggs is a better shooter and defender. Josh has more desire to win. I think Josh’s motor will get KU further in the tourney, but Wiggins did a hell of a job to keep the streak intact, that team wasn’t any good especially without Embiid. However, had it been the second year of Wiggins, Embiid, and Black together holy crap that would’ve been special!
Josh is a final four motor. Let’s inable him!
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Wiggins broke Manning’s freshman scoring record and still holds it; his average is still higher than Jackson, although Josh still has time to get his average higher.
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@JayHawkFanToo Wiggins was also the #1 option on a team with basically nothing but freshmen and sophomores. JJ is the #2 option on a team loaded with upper classmen. Wiggins should have a higher scoring average than Jackson based on situations. Switch them and JJ averages over 20 ppg on that 2013-14 team and would have likely been a 1st team All American and possibly the NPOY that year.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I really like jj too. His D and throws are really hurting his game. Burton just dominated him on both ends.
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I was/am fairly pissed at JJ from yesterday. He missed two FTs late on a play where if he dunks with two hands it’s an and one. Im not mad Burton got the best of him JJ is a working progress on d, but I was also pissed he didn’t get on the floor a few times like he normally does.
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I like Josh as much as any KU fan, but he is playing as well or even better than expected. Replace Wiggins with Jackson and you will see similar numbers.
