So...according to ESPN KU is no longer the favorite to win the Conference...



  • Apparently, WVU is the new favorite…really?



  • Interesting.

    Let’s build a chip on our shoulder. Wonder if U.A’s injury plays into the calculation.



  • Most useless piece of crap system ever created. Go pound sand espn



  • They are Giving West Virginia a 75% chance of at least getting a share of the title? - - -All I can say is WHAAAAAAAAA? - - let me have a little of what they been smoking, maybe help ease the dam pain in this leg. You have got to be kidding, as if we need any this should just be that added incentive. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @jayballer54 conference games have not even started. All percentages for winning the conference should wait until February



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Will they revise the system when Self finds a way again?



  • ESPN clickbait using weird science math. Has ESPN ever predicted KU to win the Big 12? The BPI is almost as worthless as the RPI, imo.



  • We will lose the conference some day.



  • Its not a bad thing IMO, it will provide extra motivation to players & coaches.



  • @wissox said:

    We will lose the conference some day. Not if we stay in this conference! I give the Big12 two years before it gets mostly absorbed by the BIG4 conferences. I love the streak, but it kinda makes the Big12 look bad. Safe to assume that the “streak” would not be possible in the ACC or the B1G, but we’d always be a team to reckon with. Aren’t we all a little tired of just beating up the same old tired teams of the Big12.



  • Go home ESPN, you’re drunk.

    @wissox said:

    We will lose the conference some day.

    Of course but…



  • @HawkChamp ya tell ESPN that



  • @rocketdog It’ll be more than 2 years until the Big 12 dies. It’ll happen when the TV contract is out in about 8 years or so.



  • @rocketdog

    The Big 12 has consistently been ranked in the top 2 in the last few years and has sent as many as 7 teams to the dance, that is 70% of the teams in more than one occasion; no other conference has come close to that success. The conference is currently ranked #1…

    image.png



  • @KUSTEVE

    Jack Harry did…oh, wait…ROTFLMAO. :smiley:



  • So ESPN has WVU as the 3rd best team? Not buying it. The UVA road win is probably the second best win any Big 12 team has this year behind our neutral court win over Duke. Beyond their UVA game, they haven’t played another really good team this year. They lost to a Temple team who’s a bubble team at best and an Illinois team who hasn’t beaten a good team yet. We don’t know if that UVA win is a fluke or not.

    As of today, I would pick Baylor as our biggest competition because they’ve been really impressive so far. Neutral court wins over Michigan St. and Louisville on consecutive nights is really impressive. Oregon and Xavier are solid top 25 teams. Baylor has looked really good this year and they look different as far as confidence goes.

    I’m also surprised ESPN has Texas Tech as the 5th best team in the Big 12. Auburn is tge only team Tech has played that’s going to sniff the NCAA tournament as an at large and Tech lost to them. Tech will finish bottom 1/3 of the Big 12 this year.



  • I don’t understand the BPI, never have. I also don’t understand why UCLA isn’t a runaway favorite for the PAC 12 title. With Arizona and Oregon struggling, UCLA should be a dominant favorite.

    I also don’t understand why the Big 12 isn’t a three team race (WVU, Baylor and KU). I can’t see why anyone would be a 75% favorite at this stage, other than maybe a team like Wichita State in the Mo Valley, or Villanova in the Big East (97% is way too much considering that Butler, Xavier and Creighton are all legitimately good teams).

    It just seems like BPI weighs things a little too heavily towards a favorite. If you told me that today, KU, WVU and Baylor all had between a 30% and 35% chance of winning the conference, with the field having a 4% chance of winning, I could certainly understand that. But to declare anyone a runaway favorite is pure clickbait, and very silly considering no games have been played.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10

    Your post reads like WVU lost to Illinois, WVU beat Illinois by 32 points…



  • @JayHawkFanToo I know WVU won that game. It’s their second best win and Illinois probably isn’t a tournament team this year, or a bubble team at best.



  • I don’t see Baylor’s zone defense as being a problems for us. Self has said that Josh is the best player he has had in the middle of the zone, ever. We have Killed every zone that has been thrown at us this year. However, for the last three years, Press Virginia has had our number in Morgantown. Devin Williams was the bane of our existence for the last two years. He did us a favor by leaving early. KU will be undefeated at home. This year is the best I’ve felt about our team for conference play in the last six years. No Oklahoma, Texas or OSU. Iowa state lost both McKay and Niang. Huggie’s alway been the biggest thorn for us, but I don’t see us losing the Big 12.

    However, this was our worst game of last year.



  • But then they have to come back to Allen Field House. The game where Landon had a double/double and 16 rebounds and an Interview with Duke Vitale and the Selfie on National TV,



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 said:

    @rocketdog It’ll be more than 2 years until the Big 12 dies. It’ll happen when the TV contract is out in about 8 years or so. You’re probably right, but I just can’t see Oklahoma - which appears to be the most agitated about the current state of the Big12 - waiting 8 years to shake things up. You’re right though, the TV deal complicates the whole mess. We’ll see, but I don’t think we know yet how we’ll be consuming sports in the future, considering how quickly technology is changing.



  • Brennon disagrees with the bpi model as well. I suppose it will improve as the season goes on and more data points are entered?

    Predictions for order of finish in every conference

    Big 12

    Kansas was and remains the Big 12 title favorite, forever and ever, amen, but this was the first preseason in ages when the Jayhawks didn’t appear to have at least one obvious usurper in their midst. Instead, Baylor’s surprise rise and Bob Huggins’ routine West Virginia brilliance have presented KU with two.

    1. Kansas Jayhawks
    2. Baylor Bears
    3. West Virginia Mountaineers
    4. Iowa State Cyclones
    5. Texas Tech Red Raiders
    6. Kansas State Wildcats
    7. TCU Horned Frogs
    8. Oklahoma State Cowboys
    9. Oklahoma Sooners
    10. Texas Longhorns


  • If the method they use says WVU is now the favorite, then their method / model makes no sense. I could understand Baylor based on their performance so far. But they will not be a favorite in my mind until they prove they can live up to expectations over the long haul of a season. Maybe they will this year…but they haven’t so far under Drew.



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    Ok, I know and understand the rankings, but I’m talking about perception. And you understand how others outside of the Big12 might assume the Big12 is relatively weak if one school always wins the conference title.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 I was just getting ready to say & saw your reply. I am more worried about Baylor then WVU. Baylor long and very athletic again, played a very rough schedule. - -West Virginia ummmm- - -not so much.- -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • I’ve been incredibly impressed with Huggins, his transformation as a coach, and WVU’s style. That said, I see KU going 14-4 or better in Big 12 play. Our skill players are unmatched and we have a coach that embraces the smallness. I could see losing at WVU and Baylor, but I think we win one of those. This team has character that has been — as the saying goes – tempered by fire. Experience everywhere and the best freshman we could have hoped for.



  • @wrwlumpy Oh I have to disagree to an extent with you ONE Baylor has a total different look about them this year, yes STILL zone but ALOT more aggressive with that zone and as Teas Hawk said they have been very impressive against very well caliber opponents. I understand what your saying about Jackson but Baylor STILL LONG - -STILL very Athletic, Motley having a very solid breakout year, better point guard, the other big they have sweet rim protector, going to be tough. The and before anyone jumps to conclusions, Let me say from the beginning I’m not saying Oklahoma State is winning the Big 12 or really seriously challenging BUT they have played well Evans is the real deal, can’t think of his name but the kid as soon as he crosses half court would launch it up if he had the Green light, that red shirted last year - - -got some nice pieces - -Got what I think was a very good hire as a new coach. To say we don’t have OSU might be slighting them just a tad.The league has improved enough I think there are NO GIVEN’S on the road - - now at home ya still gonna be practically impossible I believe for any to come into the Phog and win - -BUT the league has improves across the board. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    “Apparently, WVU is the new favorite…really?”

    Yep… when this happens -

    o-HELL-FROZE-OVER-facebook.jpg



  • @wrwlumpy

    “This year is the best I’ve felt about our team for conference play in the last six years.”

    Good post. Yes… logic says this is one of our better break away from the pack teams we have had in the Big 12 for quite some time.

    Part of it is based on the logic that many typical powerhouse teams will be down this year.

    Logic tells us that we have less teams threatening to take the crown this year… however… does having less contenders HELP us or HURT us?

    Might it work differently than the logical assumption? I’ve always thought it helps us to have more teams threaten to win our conference. The parity makes it very tough for teams to go through conference without some mistakes, including KU making a goof or two. We just tend to lose less… especially at home. So I’m not sure but we could be hurt by only having (let’s say) two contenders besides us. If the challenge ONLY comes from WVU and Baylor, then these three teams (including us in that math) may only be threatened with losses against the other two teams. That gives perhaps a bigger chance for all teams not named Kansas. We win conference because of our consistency. of play being very good at home and good on the road. Now that all changes to just needing exceptional performances against WVU and Baylor. We could be off a game or two (as we are every year) and then suddenly we lose the championship to one of these two teams that played well against us and the other good team.

    Kind of complicated… hope you understand my logic.



  • The Big 12 is tough in this respect - there are pitfalls everywhere on the road.

    Ames… Stillwater… Manhattan… heck, we haven’t won in Morgantown in three or four years. Norman isn’t an easy trip. Tech is feisty at home. TCU is much improved and could prove to be a problem. Texas has the talent to give people problems if they can find someone that can shoot on that roster. Baylor has as much talent as almost anyone in the country, save the very top tier.

    If I told you that KU lost at Iowa State (games are always close up there), at Oklahoma State (a couple of recent losses there), at West Virginia (haven’t won there in a while), at Tech (we have struggled there the last few years) and at Baylor (most talent, non-KU division), would anyone think that was completely unreasonable?

    The key to winning the Big 12 is the same as always - win at home, steal one on the road against a good team, don’t lose to bad teams on the road. We have won the conference because we basically never lose at home. Every other conference challenger loses one or two at home. And that is why we don’t falter.



  • @drgnslayr I agree. Who will beat the Baylors and the Mountaineers from the rest of the conference?



  • I know his mouth gargles in toilet water… but I do have a lot of respect for Huggybear.

    Think how hard he has it.

    His style of play requires depth. Plenty of depth to run that hard at teams. Those aggressive presses open up the chances for more injuries when the aggression level stays that high.

    Even though it is hard to prepare to play a team like Huggy’s… the problem in preparation is a bigger issue when opposing teams have little time to prepare, which is the case usually in conference play. But March is a different story. The first opponents WVU faces in the weekend have better part of a week to prepare. They actually should gain a huge advantage when playing WVU, who lives and dies by the press.

    So for WVU to win in March, they have to get past that first game in the weekend against an opponent that should be prepared.

    Then the next problem. Maintaining stamina for the second game in the weekend.

    I do not see much of a path for a Huggy team in March, and also it gets pretty tough for him to win our conference. His style is so demanding that how can you count on consistency when there are so many counter variables? What happens when 4 of his players have the flu at the same time? What happens when he has a few injuries? What happens when his team is worn down and beat up? His margin for error is razor thin. No gliding through some games.

    I say all this, and it seems logical to me… but the game is decided on the court, and who is to say that Huggy couldn’t deliver a conference title or even a NCAA title? Huggy has 800 victories. The guy knows how to win, and maybe he is a redneck with a foul mouth… that has never stopped him from winning games!

    I know Drew has a solid team but Baylor doesn’'t pose a big threat to me until Drew proves to me he can really compete consistently in B12 play. Drew has had some uber talent play for him and he is yet to maximize (or come close) the talent he has had.



  • KU’s toughest games in Big 12 play will be @Iowa St. on 1/16 because that’s a short turnaround game on Big Monday after a Saturday game. The 3 game stretch of @West Virginia (1/24), @Kentucky (1/28), and Baylor (2/1) could easily see KU drop 2 of 3 or possibly all 3. The good thing about this stretch is KU has 3 days leading into the WVU game, and 4 days to prep for UK and Baylor. @KSU on 2/6 is a Big Monday game after Iowa St. on Saturday.

    KU may drop one or two others, but tgese are the remaining games I would have circled as potential losses remaining.



  • @JayHawkFanToo And this shouldnt surprise us too much. East Coast bias.

    But, we all know…The Big 12 runs through Lawrence…always has, always will.



  • I iphone had not even been invented when the conference winning streak started.



  • We have a four guard offense against WVU this year vs their press. Last year it was two Bigs and Selden.



  • @wrwlumpy The four guard lineup will be beneficial. Having Frank, Devonte, Svi and Josh out there is an upgrade to what we had last year. I hope the guys are mentally ready - Frank has yet to win at Morgantown.



  • I just don’t think that West Virginia is that talented.

    No Williams in the post, no paige.

    They do have tons of depth which has helped them so far.

    We will see how far their style of play gets them. I expect the narrative on this team to change soon



  • WVU is a good college basketball team. They don’t necessarily have lots of NBA talent on the roster, which limits their ceiling, but they are deep and they play their system, which also limits their floor.

    We know almost exactly what WVU will look like every single night in conference play because they will likely fluctuate very little as the season progresses. They will press and force turnovers. If you can take care of the ball, they will struggle offensively because they don’t have tons of offensive talent to beat you in the half court, but if you are the least bit sloppy with the basketball, they can run you out of the gym.

    Baylor has more talent, particularly if Ish Wainwright starts playing up to his ability. But Baylor also tends to ebb and flow, although this team has not yet done that in the non-con against a pretty solid schedule.



  • @rocketdog

    Perception by whom? Sports writer and analysts know this already. The people that see the Big 12 as weak obviously don’t know much about basketball and you need to educate them. Most of the people with whom I talk sports are very familiar with the Conference status and the ones that are not are quickly persuade when they look at the overall confrere rating and realize the Big 12 is top to bottom one of the top 3 if not the top conference in the land.

    Granted, the conference has not done as well as it should in the Tournament, but what other conference routinely sends 60%-70% of its teams to the dance? The answer is probably none.



  • Just saw a power ranking that has us 4th nationally behind Baylor which is 3rd. It was on ESPN



  • @JayHawkFanToo

    I completely agree with what you’re saying. Maybe I should have stated that I work in KC and the group I work with most are a mix of MU, K-State and KU fans. Talking sports with these guys can be exhausting. MU fan’s perception of KU and the Big12 are similar to how K-Staters feel about KU in general. Basically a lot of hate and jealousy. It’s pretty easy to defend KU as an elite program but beyond that it can get pretty ugly and it’s not worth my time to educate them - they’re mostly football fans and know little about basketball. It’s crazy but it even turns political at times. Us Lawrentian’s ( residents of Lawrence, Ks ) are always viewed by my coworkers as liberal, hippie tree huggers. I actually try and have a little fun with that. Like I said, I love the streak and want to see us keep it going and really I wasn’t trying to rattle anyone’s cage regarding the streak or the strength of of the Big12.



  • @rocketdog

    I feel your pain. I have been there before…:smiley:



  • I wouldn’t believe anything ESPN says about our conference



  • @blackmild33 I have not been impressed with ESPN’s credibility since they decided 7 pm (6, Central time) basketball games on Big Monday only take 1 hr 45 min to complete, so we always miss the beginning–and more, if OT. Football? Only 3 hrs, scheduled, come hell or high water or timeouts.

    It has changed me into someone wanting blowouts, which sort of ruins watching non-KU games as a general bb fan.


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