Thoughts from the game- A bittersweet Victory
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@justanotherfan Saw where some of their fans are talking like Giles might not even play at all this year - - dunnop just what I was reading - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 said:
@justanotherfan Saw where some of their fans are talking like Giles might not even play at all this year - - dunnop just what I was reading - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He will play. However, all the schools recruiting him knew the risks. This is a kid that blew out EACH knee in HS in separate years. He is a transcendent talent, but he may never truly get to show it.
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@approxinfinity said:
One thing nobody mentioned is that Kennard was able to get midrange jumpshots at will around the foul line. I don’t know if that was just a match up thing, but other than a couple rim runs early on, those midrange jumpers was the only reliable penetration Duke had against us. I wonder if his ability to get that shot resulted in a half time adjustment of Self having the guards double down on cutters, leaving wing 3s wide open with Frank trying to close back out.
Self wanted the team to guard the 3 pt line, which they did.
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@jayballer54 said:
@kjayhawks You know like I posted on another thread I think - -if and When Udoka develops any kind of offensive moves - - shot- - like you said - - - - - LOOK OUT I’m thinking maybe , just maybe we end up having him for Three years, it could happen - - -Wishful thinking I guess, really looking forward to see his progression - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
If Udoka develops offensive moves and becomes a reliable scorer inside, we are talking potential NPOY. Could happen his 3rd or 4th year if he sticks around.
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@jayballer54 He reminds me of a bigger Trob
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@justanotherfan agree that the 2s were better than 3s. I wondered about Frank’s second half double downs. Do you.think those were endorsed by Self?
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Love the discussion everyone. Keep it going.
Wins especially against Duke on the big stage are nothing but positive for this program. Especially after ESPN ran a headline that said College Basketball was Duke & Kentucky and everyone else. Funny, guys maybe they should have waited until today to run that story.
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I also don’t have a problem with the T on JJ. He was being a d-bag and deserved it. It’s ironic that the T was Bilas’s biggest beef with the officiating. I think Bilas was trying very hard not to complain too much about the officiating since that’s become his reputation.
Loved to see JJ come out in the 2nd half! He’s clearly a 2nd half guy at this point, hopefully because it’s just his first few games and still needs a half to figure things out and let the game slow down a bit. Hopefully it’s not a motivation or mentality issue.
Mason was money, nuff said.
Landen WASN’T money. I love me some Dok.
So the fouls on screens on Mason and JJ, isn’t some contact to be expected on screens? Both guys had their arms extended and whoever ran the quick cuts around the screens basically ran into their arms and initiated the contact, effectively clotheslining themselves. Did both Mason and JJ grab? Or did Duke just sell it well? If it’s the latter, the NCAA needs to look into it.
Other than that, if the refs are going to be this much of a pain, it looks like it’s worth waiting for as it will eventually look more like Big XII ball instead of Big Ten ball. Whatever helps scoring. Skilled, smart, athletic defense is what we’re looking for, not football defense.
They gotta figure out how to call charges though. You shouldn’t be able to draw a foul just because you’re standing up there within a fraction of a second before the offensive player gets there. Guys are getting there at the last second, not even making a play on the ball, and getting bailed out by the rulebook.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
Love the discussion everyone. Keep it going.
Wins especially against Duke on the big stage are nothing but positive for this program. Especially after ESPN ran a headline that said College Basketball was Duke & Kentucky and everyone else. Funny, guys maybe they should have waited until today to run that story.
Yep. ESPN can taste it.
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Do we know if Allen properly recovered from his wounded pride yet?
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They mess with the Charge rule so much I don’t even know what is a charge anymore. No defensive player should be awarded a charge for stepping in front of a player making a basketball play. How many flops did Jeter attempt last night at near 7f tall!!!
And what are charge calls called on guys who freaking pass the ball to someone? Got to be the most pointless call you can make in a game. I think we saw at least 3-4 of those last night. I guess officiating is just called how they see these days
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@BeddieKU23 said:
They mess with the Charge rule so much I don’t even know what is a charge anymore. No defensive player should be awarded a charge for stepping in front of a player making a basketball play. How many flops did Jeter attempt last night at near 7f tall!!!
And what are charge calls called on guys who freaking pass the ball to someone? Got to be the most pointless call you can make in a game. I think we saw at least 3-4 of those last night. I guess officiating is just called how they see these days
K coaches flopping. Pretty sure he’s gonna call up Manu when he finally retires and get him on the staff as the Professor of Flopping. Maybe he could even get ahold of Vlade Divac.
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You forgot the father of flopping Marcus Smart who learned from Shane Battier. When I saw Jeter falling to the ground and then crying after I immediately thought he had been watching Shane video’s
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@BeddieKU23 said:
You forgot the father of flopping Marcus Smart who learned from Shane Battier. When I saw Jeter falling to the ground and then crying after I immediately thought he had been watching Shane video’s
K will be retired by the time Smart is out of the league I think. Unless he perfects some kind of anti-aging technology. Or has clones.
My god Battier…I had forgotten about him lol.
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@jayballer54 with K making “he has a long future ahead of him” comments, that is indicative that his return this year is in doubt.
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@BShark because of our upcoming schedule, Dok needs to play at least 20 minutes a game. He just needs more experience to get a feel for how to play around the basket. Self said he has a nice hook shot, so hopefully he’ll be able to show that on Friday.
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@HawkChamp said:
@BShark because of our upcoming schedule, Dok needs to play at least 20 minutes a game. He just needs more experience to get a feel for how to play around the basket. Self said he has a nice hook shot, so hopefully he’ll be able to show that on Friday.
Agree. Should be able to get him minutes and let Lucas rest up.
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One other interesting thing from the game is the fact that all the foul trouble didn’t lead to a single minute by Coleby in ether game, which is kinda surprising that he doesn’t play over lightfoot just off of his experience, but i think he may not be 100% yet.
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@kjayhawks said:
One other interesting thing from the game is the fact that all the foul trouble didn’t lead to a single minute by Coleby in ether game, which is kinda surprising that he doesn’t play over lightfoot just off of his experience, but i think he may not be 100% yet.
Saw it coming from the exhibitions. He is not ready yet and Self doesn’t trust him one bit.
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@kjayhawks doke comparable to Trob? No way
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@BShark self said mentally he’s not 100%. He doesn’t trust his knee yet. Probably how Giles will be.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark self said mentally he’s not 100%. He doesn’t trust his knee yet. Probably how Giles will be.
Yep. It was apparent just from watching tbqh.
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I heard someone say Giles wouldn’t play college if he could pass Med exam for the NBA. also if he plays in college he could get insurance, like Embiid did.
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Grayson Allen was crying to the refs so much that even coach K said something about it afterward. That’s bad!
Paraphrasing - he was looking to the refs for calls instead of playing ball.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@kjayhawks doke comparable to Trob? No way
Not TRob as a junior, but as a freshman? Or even a sophomore? TRob was pretty raw at first. Doke may have even greater potential offensively. Just his massive size, combined with athleticism, could eventually draw comparisons to Shaq - a bold statement, I know, but last night was sure promising.
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@tundrahok raw yes, like most frosh, but athletically, no way. I don’t know how Shaq was his freshman year, but that makes more sense to me. Trob was a stallion.
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@tundrahok @Crimsonorblue22 TRob was pretty raw IMO Doka will prob never have his range but could have his dominate nature in the post.
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Really hard to say if that was the gameplan. It happened multiple times, so I would guess that it was, particularly because Self was not upset with the results. That said, if the double down was a strategic decision, I would like to see Frank double down “big” rather than small.
You will notice that when Frank went to double, rather than having his arms up or out to cut down the passing window, he had his hands down or in front to try and disrupt the ball handler. Knowing that Duke focuses so heavily on drive and kick actions, I think it is a mistake to not double down with arms out to eat up some of the passing lanes, particularly since you’re doubling down on guards that can pass more effectively than a big man.
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@justanotherfan
I also think that Frank isn’t going to be as disruptive doubling down as a longer defender . Not playing to Frank’s strength which is footspeed and despite a tremendous vertical when you’re jumping out at a shooter rather than up you can’t make up for length
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@approxinfinity also you’re going to catch fouls as a smaller defender because you try to compensate for height by getting closer to the shooters release point
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There’s another play where Devonte got whistled when he double down to rip and udoka had the block behind him
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Random musing: 56-35. The margin after it was 15-6 Duke to get to 62-50 KU. The potential of this team is pretty high.
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Also why Frank picked up that foul on the corner three because he jumped to contest. A longer defender probably doesn’t get that foul because he just has his hand up.
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@BeddieKU23 Excellent post! Better than most of the sports journalists out there.
Im gonna start with the bad.
Lando has got to be hurting. I just dont believe he has lost motivation. We are playing a lot of 4 out 1 in, defenses cant sag off our other guys, they can shoot it and drive at will. ( I’ll get to the shooting in a sec ). Lando was a beast on the boards last year, how is it possible for him to regress like he has while healthy? I just dont see it.
Our shooting from 3 and the FT line has been dismal the last two games. It will progress back to the mean %. No way this is a trend but merely a statistical anomaly. Our boys will get a nice break on friday, our first home game of the season. Watch the lid come off. It will happen.
Now the good!
Frank is better than Sherron. There, I said it. Ive been thinking that the two were very similarly made up since Frank’s first season. Now we have proof! Mason is a Pit Bull out there! Defenses cant stay in front on him, they have to foul him or let him make shots. I absolutely agree this is HIS team. We live and die by Frank’s strength, physically and mentally. Not different at all from how Sherron led KU his Senior season. The thing is, I dont think he will have a game like Sherron did against UNI.
JJ, he’ll be a stud. He is a stud. He is better than Oubre, already. He is better than Xav. He isnt as good as Wiggs was, at this point, on offense but he is easily as good defensively. He just needs to calm the F&^% down when he gets nicked with a cheap foul call.
That last one that fouled him out…that was no foul. The other player sold that one big time. It was BS.Doke! Bookie! Udunka if you will. I said it earlier. He is better than Cliff and better than Diallo. Once he figures out how to play and not foul, AND make his FT’s. Other teams got nothing on him. He is huge, massive even! He runs the floor really good and sucks up rebounds better than a giant Hoover. 12 boards!? 4 of them offensive!? All in 18 minutes.
Count on him to start averaging double doubles by mid season or so.Other guys looked great. I didnt notice DG was cramping. Electrolyte imbalances can be tricky to correct. But He played all 40 and didnt have to get stretched out by the trainers during the game. I think thats progress. Hydration and electrolyte tabs for DG until the problem resolves. He’ll be fine.
Our Defense, I thought, Was a stellar improvement from Indiana. That Allen kid, I hate him, but he is real good and we held him to what, 4-17? something like that? sticky defense does that. It was a great team effort.
Now we have a stretch of games that should be cake walks compared to our first two games. It’ll give our youngins a chance to settle in a little bit. Kind of jump out of the fire so to speak. Theyre gonna light it up at home this year.
They havent ran out of the tunnel pre game yet!!Sienna on friday will get them amped for sure.
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Why does it skip from post 21 to post 80? Wierd!
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I have to say I like how they are calling things. I was getting tired of prison body right, prison body left, OADs from 3.
This is going to help OADs be much more productive.
Josh might not score at all this season if fouls were called Same as in the MORRI seasons.
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Udoka is getting exactly what we wanted Diallo and some other freshman bigs to get in the past, playing time. With the lack of big men we have he gets a rare opportunity in Self’s system to play through some mistakes and we will be better for it later in the year when it matters. I remember discussions almost every game about how we would be better off letting Diallo get playing time early so he could be better later, looks like we are getting our wish, just with a different player; in my opinion, a higher ceiling player in Udoka.
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Speaking about the the game Big Jah representing Kansas… Look at that smile
@JahlilOkafor #RockChalk
From Embiid
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Thank you I know these posts don’t stand up to HEM’s usual marathon posts that we used to get but its always nice to get enough points out there to get a good discussion going.
This was a big win. I hope Friday isn’t a let down (which I’m about to start a threat about)
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@BeddieKU23 Anyone have any news of HEM? Did I miss something?
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Nope not sure where he went.
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The T on JJ was quite justified if not mandated. The refs’ greatest attention will be drawn to overly in-your-face physical actions against an opposing player that can lead to retaliation and fights. I doubt any player would want someone to come and blast the ball out of their hands after play is stopped. An instinctive response would be to lash out, and a quick T helps prevent that.
I seem to remember many fans getting upset when demonstrative players like Smart or Beasley or Allen or that jerk from Syracuse (not the champ team) would do something like that.
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@Lulufulu about Lucas being injured. I think his “injury” is a great scapegoat. A lot of posters have mentioned LL obvious injury, but what is his injury? Since he was wearing a boot the obvious answer is that it is his foot or something with his lower leg. Unfortunately this injury alone cannot explain in-game deficiencies. My personal observation is that he lacks upper body and hand strength necessary to finish through contact and control the rock down low. Since he has the tendency to bring the ball down opposing teams exploit this weakness. This could not be ever more apparent when Dukes Kennard literally ripped the ball out of both of his hands. This is concerning, but the silver lining is that Lucas can help the team score points, he just doesn’t have to be the one doing it. Lucas may have physical limitations, but he does understand his role on the offense and sets a lot of screens that get us buckets. If he really is injured it will all work out because that means Dok and Bragg will get much needed court time. We will need a healthy LL down the stretch in league play. I think we should really keep him on a 15-20 minute restriction for a while, so that other teams forget about him and don’t even consider him a factor. That way come February and March we can release dare i say our secret weapon Lucas from Lob City! Hang banner 13! Then to the Dance! Rock Chalk Baby LETS GOOOOOOO!
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The next five KU games over the next two weeks are Siena, UAB, Georgia or George Washington, UNC Asheville and Long Beach State. This is a perfect time to pull Lucas from the lineup and let him rest/ heal up before the Stanford game on December 3. By trying to do a minutes restriction, you ultimately end up with him just taking longer to get fully healthy (or not getting healthy at all).
Lucas is not moving well right now, and for a guy that has limited agility and explosiveness to start with, that’s not a good thing. Let him heal up so he can really contribute. Give minutes to Udoka, Bragg and Lightfoot (who needs some minutes to gain experience). Might as well do that against Siena and others than have Lucas re-injure himself and have Lightfoot needing to play big minutes for the first time against UNLV or Texas Tech a month from now.
