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  • @VailHawk thinking they better play better when they get a chance!

  • I have no problem with Traylor playing the amount of time he did in the 2nd half, great energy, & like the announcers said really good job rebounding for us pretty much help us fend of San Diego charge in the 2nd half. Don’t really believe it was so musch as the others NOT playing well as Jamari was playing pretty well, Again NO problem what so ever with how he played Jamari in the 2nd half. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

  • @VailHawk fraudulent academic credit, impermissible financial aid?

  • VailHawk, While Traylor had a good game Self gave away the opportunity of providing valuable experience to more talented players, playing on the road before the conference season.

  • Too much advertising in the background?

  • Frank on the bench?

  • Because Coach waited another 35 seconds to put Diallo back in? Because with Bragg making Freshman mistakes, Diallo getting pushed under the rim and Mick diving into three point shooters they had to learn how to stay on the court?


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  • @AsadZ Self went with the players that were playing well at the time. Without those offensive rebounds from Traylor…who knows what would have happened in that stretch. I hear you on the experience for the younger guys…but the number one goal is to win…I have no problem with Traylor getting those minutes.

  • I think we will see, at least early on in the conference season, the younger guys will get more playing time at home than on the road…easier to play in front of the home crowd…of course we will likely have bigger leads at home also.

  • @VailHawk

    Sometimes Self seems to get bored, when he can beat a coach like Fisher with his best players and so he decides to rub it in by beating Fish with his lesser players. How else to explain it?

  • I know our young guys need experience but i agree with the decision to let Mari play. He earned those mins last night. He gave us a spark and energy that no one else was giving last night. I do think Cheick should be eating whatever mins LL is getting though.

  • BamBam brought energy, and call it what you want… pace? BamBam and Perry stayed busy and it helped prevent our entire team from slumping. Wayne did a lot of nice things with the limited minutes he had.

    Energy is always going to be the issue on the road. We didn’t bring it in the beginning of the second half, while the Aztecs came out charged. We all know our game this year is defined by “fast pace” so at times we have to put guys in that will help us keep the game moving.

    The beginning of the second half… we had guys standing around… especially on offense. We missed a bunch of bunnies and just couldn’t put the ball in the hole. All of that helped charge up the Aztecs.

    Wayne was huge in the second half. So was BamBam… pulling down some key rebounds that kept possessions alive.

    Perry… this was definitely one of his better games as a Jayhawk! He maintained very consistent energy. He shouted out to his team constantly. His body language looked better than probably any road game he has faced as a Jayhawk.

    There are so many areas of this team that are starting to shine. Imagine the struggle of our opposition to properly scout us? Who are they going to try to key on to stop? Wayne? Well… he does tend to captain the ship, but our skipper was plagued with fouls and watched the first half from below the hatch.

    I thought that was impressive how our guys built a lead in the first half largely without Wayne. I am all for Wayne’s leadership and spark and guys keying off of him… but it is also great to know that others can step up when Wayne has an off-night.

    This was a very impressive victory. Can our guys maintain this same focus and energy the rest of the season?

  • Playing less talented but experienced player for as much as was done, necessarily means your more talented, less experienced players will continue to be so. And this against a team that is up and down.

    While the win last night was very important, come March we won’t be talking about beating SDSU but we may be talking about how we weren’t prepared because our most talented folks underperformed in the tournament and our limited talent folks also just couldn’t get it done because…well, just because that is what happens in March, you play all very talented teams with experience.

  • Viejas Arena is consistently listed as one of the top 10 toughest arenas in college basketball. You could hear when San Diego had its run how the place went crazy and the KU silence it wit h run of its own.

    Say what you want about Traylor but there is no question that he brought the team back with his energy and hustle and timely rebounds and dives for the ball. The bigs are slowly developing, Mickelson still gets caught out of position more often than he should and the foul on the 3 point attempt was something he really should know better. Bragg and Diallo are still learning the game, and they are not yet strong enough to hold their position with sheer size and get pushed around quite a bit; actually, it is more a question of technique than strength and they are not there yet. Lucas is pretty much …now you see me and now you don’t. he brings rebounding and bulk but very limited offense. Until such time where Mickelson, Lucas, Diallo and Bragg can play more consistently smart, I am glad we have Jamari to fill the void.

  • @Bwag So, whats your solution? Play bragg and diallo more and hope you dont lose an early season game because of their current inexperience? what is so wrong with playing guys that are playing well at that moment? If Jamari was having a bad night, trust me he would be on the bench, and someone else would be in. self plays the guys that deserve to be on the floor at that particular time. One easily could make an aurgument that this is how you prepare a team for the tough road ahead on up to NCAA tourney.

  • Ok, try this ladies, is there anyone that thinks we lose last night if Jamari Traylor missed the flight to SD and didn’t make the trip? I am very interested.

  • @HawkInMizery said:

    I know our young guys need experience but i agree with the decision to let Mari play. He earned those mins last night. He gave us a spark and energy that no one else was giving last night. I do think Cheick should be eating whatever mins LL is getting though.

    He played well. We all agree. But what I can’t accept, is that the others would not have performed well too.

    What concerns me, is we rode the horse too long and now don’t know what the others woulda, coulda, shoulda done. We will never know. Pull the guys out and coach them on the sideline on what was/was not happening while they were on the floor. Send them back in and see if they can correct and perform in a pressure situation.

    What I think I saw and would like the x/o guys to break down, is that SDSU quit double teaming the bigs and played them straight up, and like we know now from couple years EXPERIENCE, is we don’t perform well back to the basket. Now we didn’t have the pass out of the double team to open players, creating great ball movement that we saw in the first half, and now all of a sudden, we’re making bad throws and driving inot the lane willy nilly missing contested shots.

    At this time of the game (early 2nd) Seldon was still sleepwalking from his extended nap on the sideline from the 1st. What broke it open, was Seldon finally pulled out from way deep - not driving into the defense, and hit that 3 pointer. Then drove hit the in close shot and we straightened the ship.

    Yes, Mari played strong from there on out, and while critical rebounds etc…not sure once we got untracked, we couldn’t have gone back to rotating big guys in and get them experience in THAT atmosphere, THAT critical situation and see if they perform. As I said above, now we will not know. Unless we think that Mari is our long term success-in-March & April guy.

    All that, glad we got the win. Wondering if Self is resigned to 5 by committee and ride the horse that’s performing, but not sure where, if not done with a finer tuning, if we get where we want to be for tournament readiness. But that’s why Self gets the big bucks…and I certainly don’t know what the effect of practice will have on development for “short term” players ie. OAD 2AD with talent.

  • @HighEliteMajor Probably not. But we don’t know. I don’t know if he was in when they cut the lead to 4. How does the game change if he doesn’t get some of those offensive boards? Again, we probably still win. The first road game of the season…in a tough environment like that, was probably not the place to get Diallo and Bragg their minutes. I noticed that Bragg came out when he missed that shot that looked like he was going to dunk. Quick hook…probably a little to quick. But, I don’t fault Self for playing who seemed to be the most effective.

  • God help this board if Jamari continues to play better and better. Maybe if we can use Jamari to get us a big lead then Diallo can come in and play more. Self was quoted when talking about the C5 that if you spoke with, Ellis and Frank, they would rather have Jamari on the floor, but Self said that we have to find minutes for Diallo and Bragg to play. I agree, but after losing a lead in a hostile Arena to a good team that has talented Freshmen, I’m glad the college graduate showed the upstarts that there was one Big Man that wouldn’t be pushed under the goal. Yes, HEM, we could have easily lost this game with the loud crowd momentum with Frank having a bad second half, Bragg acting like a Freshman. Yes Diallo needs minutes, but I, like Self, want to win every game. Who says that learning can’t take place by watching what works instead of continuing to screw up what obviously wasn’t working.

  • @HighEliteMajor Let me guess your opinion on this. We still win the game without Jamari playing. You may be right. The question is, really?? This is the topic you (and others, bwag, AsadZ) bring up when he has a good solid game and helps the team?? This is what you are concerned with when we win against a decent team on the road? That Jamari gets playing time and plays well instead of the guys you think should be out there?

    Weak and Sad my freind.

  • @HighEliteMajor I agree to a point. I would rather Bragg and Diallo get minutes in a home game than on the road, even if it is against Iowa State or Baylor.

  • The following quotes are from last night’s SDS Chat.


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  • @HighEliteMajor

    OK @HighEliteMajor…do you think we lose last night if Diallo and Bragg missed the flight to SD and didn’t make the trip? We are all very interested.

  • @HawkInMizery I’m always perplexed to see LL on the court when Diallo or Bragg could be out there. He can seal the post, we get it…but…

  • Actually, I didn’t offer an opinion. It’s kind of funny how folks just react with angry statements. The same folks that have sat obviously quiet while we have won by a combined 90 points in the last three games with Traylor playing a total of 13 minutes.

    But I think last night was quite a bit different than the Lucas vs. Harvard thing, for example; or the “Traylor was the best player” vs. Loyola. Both were farces.

    I thought Traylor played very well in the second half. And last night, when Traylor went in the game, it did seem like momentum switched after a few trips up and down the floor. That was a game where home crowd, momentum, etc. - you don’t know how things can swing. Sure, Self could have subbed out Traylor and played Diallo or Bragg, but he did what he said he was going to do, an rode the hot hand.

    But more importantly, Self isn’t saying that Traylor is a 20 minutes per game guy every game. His actions have shown that it’s flexible and pliable. Self has actually been pretty clear in where this is headed. That’s much better than saying Traylor is a rotation mainstay. We have now moved past that I think. We know what the future holds. It’s just a matter of time.

    Traylor is most effective situationally. Last night seemed like a “situation” to me.

    Actually, Traylor had zero turnovers and he had 3 steals. Those are big deals when he plays 20 minutes. The offensive boards were very important, of course. But Traylor was disruptive, something he has to be to be effective, and he didn’t give back his steals in the way of turnovers. Which happens frequently.

    This is the sort of “peak” performance game we’ll see from Traylor. We’ll get some of them. This was Traylor at his best, minus a few put backs that he tends to get when he’s playing well. But that didn’t matter last night. The consistency of good performances is what we see that is lacking. Thus why the need to have a better rotation alternative.

    There is zero doubt in my mind that Self made the right decisions to win last night. That seems self-evident by our clear control of the game and the margin of victory.

    I have a macro opinion of “play the best player” to reach our ceiling. But the “micro” of “win the game at hand” is a different discussion. The macro is the discussion of Diallo and Bragg, and their minutes.

    It’s a lot easier to accept the playing time for Traylor when it appears clear that Self has moved past the idea of Traylor as a 20 mpg guy every night. Much, much easier.

  • Each game is different. It is up to Coach Self to figure out what works. Jamari played like a Senior last night. He showed why Coach Self believes in him. It was a joy to watch. Diablo is five game behind and that is unfortunate. Hopefully, he will catch up in Conference play. Bragg is going to be special. This year’s team has talent and experience in the post. That’s a nice problem for Coach Self to have. Great win on the road.

  • Thank you. I’m not angry with you. I agree with your missive and I do know that Traylor will be getting less minutes and I agree with you that Diallo will play more and Traylor less. However, as soon as he goes into a game, for any minutes whatsoever, why do some people yell NO NO. I felt very safe with the coaching decision last night and was hoping like all of us are that Diallo will be our Savior. Actually, Diallo emulates Traylor in his ability to not be averse to diving for a lose ball. Merry Christmas.

  • I’m with many who want to see Cheick get more minutes so he is ready in March.

    However… what Self is doing is rewarding the group of guys on the floor that are getting the best results. The first half he throws everyone out there, and the second half is the reward for the best combinations. As soon as he sees Cheick as the best option, Cheick will get those second half minutes.

    This is smart. Make these guys earn their minutes every game. And we have several bigs who are seniors, so he doesn’t belittle them by just benching them and playing for “potential.”

    This is the way to keep all of these guys working hard in practice and fighting for minutes. And it should keep the guys happy because it is up to them to perform well enough to get those second half minutes.

    I get the feeling Self is rethinking his recruiting. Sure, he wants the top players. But ALL recruits will have to earn their PT on his team. Every once in a while we will land an elite that isn’t afraid of working hard and fighting for his minutes. Self can’t change the mindset of the elite masses. He has to deal with a bunch of unrealistic kids.

  • @ajvan i’m just as perplexed as you and seems as if he always picks up one really dumb or obvious offensive foul every game

  • @HighEliteMajor Wow, i am kindof reluctant to post this but I’m surprised that my breakdown of what I saw is rougher than yours. I was actually thinking that Traylor was the reason why SDSU went on that run and cut the lead to just 4. Having Traylor in the game takes away a scoring threat on offense. He simply cannot score and limits the flow of offense. We end up playing 4 on 5 in the halfcourt offense. I watched time after time our team struggle to get into sync with him in the game. Couldn’t stop yelling at the TV hoping that somehow Self would hear me and sub him out. I don’t think its coincidence that our offense was running like a well oiled machine for the first half of which he did not play much at all that I can recall. Sure SDSU made some adjustments but so did we, and ours hurt us too.

    To give him some credit though, I think your comment that he did well within his limitations is perfectly accurate, some big rebounds, a nice steal, and most importantly his free throw shooting. Thats the best we will see. But if Bragg is in the game instead of Mari, I really don’t think that the lead gets down to where it did, I feel very strongly about that. If a firefighter starts a fire, then saves the family inside the burning building by putting it out, is he still a hero?

  • @drgnslayr Solid. Very well put.

    It does seem though, that Bragg and Diallo get the quick hook and they need playing time to be ready for March. We are less than a couple weeks away from the start of conference and they need to be ready for that too. That being said, Perry and Traylor were our best bigs last night. They both played extremely well and deserved a lot of credit for that big win.

  • @RockkChalkk The offense came to a halt at the beginning of the second half because the ball was sticking much more than in the first. People were trying to dribble rather than pass and play became a bit more selfish. This was much more on Frank, Wayne, and Devonte than Jamari. We didn’t get any real scoring from the 5. We got 2 points from Hunter, 2 from Carlton, 4 from Cheick, and 6 from Jamari. How did our scoring slow down because of him? As was pointed out, he was in the second half to get things moving after the team showed a lack of hustle at the beginning of that half and to hit the boards which he did.

    Since Self was getting what he wanted from him he stayed in. I was screaming at the TV also in the second half. That had much, much more to do with missing bunny after bunny after bunny than with the lack of offense from Jamari.

  • @sfbahawk Yes…missing those layups was driving me crazy. That and some sloppy play on our part was how SDSU got back into the game.

  • you know what? wouldn’t it be great to be able to change spots with Coach? I mean he could come switch spots in our house, let him sit in the recliner, kick back have his brew, or pop, or tea WHATEVER, and some chips have his snack, be able to kick back watch the game, be able to yell at the TV,& we be the coach? wouldn’t that be sweet? ummmm 2nd thought, you know what? I think I’ll stick with Coach Self, his play calling, his decision making, I mean I think I’ll go with the guy that ummmm I dunno- - that has won 11 straight conference championships, that is 195-9, hasn’t lost 10 games at home since he has been here, a coach that has won a national Championship for us, a Coach who’s teams have been in the top 25, and close to the very top of the top 25 since he has been here, and what I think I heard he is or right about like 361-79 a 82% winning pct in his coaching career? - - -umm ya, I think I will have a tendency to stick with him instead of myself or any of ya all’s as the coach, Ya Ya I know we all could be THAT coach right? sure looks like he has to be making some right decisions for him to have accomplished, what he has accomplished, I just got this feeling that he might, just might know just a little bit more about whats going on then we do, so I think I’ll just continue to sit here in my recliner, drink my juice and be able to chill and let the Coach,- -Coach we gonna be ok, our C5’s ARE GONNA BE FINE. Until Cheick, can come to the realization that he is not going to be able to block every single thing that comes to the basket, until Cheick comes to the realization that he has to stay on his feet and not leave them everytime there is a little head fake, until Cheik can stay on the floor without committing a fould like a foul every 2 minutes, exp ( fouls out in 10 minutes of playing time) then he will continue to get limited minutes, yes he looked better the amount of time he was in last night, more relaxed, but like others have said Jamari was getting it done, & I have no problem what so ever with Coach playing him the amount of time he did. Cheick will get there, but like so many others have said, he is raw very, very raw going to take time ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY

  • @RockkChalkk You certainly make excellent points. Traylor limits our offense all the time. Can’t argue with you at all there. I would not have played Traylor over Bragg, period. The only point I was making was that in seeing the result, and the 3 steals vs. zero turnovers, and the offensive boards, Traylor had a good game from a “net” standpoint.

    We have some folks here that just react angrily at any discussion of Traylor. I’ve found what gets them even angrier are numbers and stats, so I apologize in advance, since it is Christmas time.

    Last season, Traylor had 20 games where he committed more turnovers than steals – 20. He only had 4 games where he had more steals than turnovers. This is important for Traylor because he doesn’t score, and his activity and supposed “energy” are why he’s playing. The SDSU game was the first in his career at +3, steal/turnovers (not saying that is ever expected from a post player in one game; but it stood out and explains my favorable position on Traylor in the SDSU game). He also has a nice offensive rebounding game. All that is why this game vs. SDSU was such an outlier.

    Now, Traylor didn’t score vs. SDSU – just 6 points. But that was largely irrelevant given the balance of his numbers.

    So this was one of exceptions to the “negative net” rule for Traylor.

    By the way, for the angry Traylor lovers, he is still our worst rotation player. His player efficiency rating is still the worst on the team, even after his “peak” performance Tuesday.

    But the Diallo/Bragg question that Traylor gets lumped in with is not a micro one, it is a macro one. And I plan to address that in a few days.

    @JayHawkFanToo Of course, you didn’t answer my questions about Traylor.

    Regarding Diallo and Bragg, yes, I think we win at SDSU without either of them. In fact, I think we could go 25-10 or 27-9 and lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tourney without them, as well.

    With that backhanded question, I will acknowledge (as I have in the past) that Traylor (with CF) saved us from losing to Eastern Kentucky in the first round in 2013-14 with the best performance of his life. Without Traylor, I’ll acknowledge we lose in the first round that year.

  • For this new year, I’m going to make a little space in my heart for Jamari. I’m not saying I’ll be unrealistic about expectations; but the kid is a hard worker and beloved by Self. I’m going to appreciate the fact that Jamari adds depth to the soul of this team, and look at his minutes as more than just productive, tangible basketball output.

    We’ll see how long this lasts, but that’s one of my resolutions.

  • @wrwlumpy

    “Self was quoted when talking about the C5 that if you spoke with, Ellis and Frank, they would rather have Jamari on the floor, but Self said that we have to find minutes for Diallo and Bragg to play.”

    I think Jamari probably offers the best team chemistry. Besides Perry, he is the guy that has plenty of game experience and half a decade to learn the system and players.

    Cheick is a work in progress. He is starting to learn a few low post finishes now. He has to start fusing in better with team play on both sides of the ball. I’m sure he isn’t a selfish player, but team chemistry typically takes time to develop.

    Carlton brings a total different skill set, including the ability to hit midrange. And his low post passing is the best I have ever witnessed from a KU post player. The chemistry seems to be starting to click more with Carlton than Cheick, but Cheick is playing catch up.

    We can clearly see how Cheick’s NCAA punishment hurt him and hurt us.

    I wonder if Cheick is a sure OAD? It seems that if he is, Self would be making public statements about that to show potential big men recruits so they would be more certain and sign with KU.

    I wonder about that.

  • @Lulufulu

    “That being said, Perry and Traylor were our best bigs last night.”

    Self recently dropped the hammer on our seniors. In a nutshell, Self said: “it is time our seniors play like seniors.”

    And they did. Perry and Jamari brought their big boy games to San Diego.

    This is outrageously crucial. The focus has to be on our senior leadership, not our potential OADs.

    Self is pushing on our experienced players to play their best. And our underclassmen are supposed to REACH UP to the level of play provided by our experienced players, instead of our experienced players FALLING DOWN to the level of our rookies.

    I am always critical of Self. It isn’t his fault, it is me. I’m just that way. But I have to say that I can’t find much criticism lately. He seems to really be on his “A-game” including his energy on the sidelines for games. He seems more perked up lately. I see him standing and shouting on the sidelines compared to some of his recent years where he mostly sat and quietly conversed with his assistants.

  • @approxinfinity he is a Jayhawk! I think being one is very meaningful to him, perhaps more than others.

  • @drgnslayr Excellent point. He has started to play to this team’s strengths, but just because you play outside - in doesn’t mean you can’t throw it inside occasionally and play tough defense. So far, it seems to be one of his best coached seasons.

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