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@AsadZ Self went with the players that were playing well at the time. Without those offensive rebounds from Traylor…who knows what would have happened in that stretch. I hear you on the experience for the younger guys…but the number one goal is to win…I have no problem with Traylor getting those minutes.
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I think we will see, at least early on in the conference season, the younger guys will get more playing time at home than on the road…easier to play in front of the home crowd…of course we will likely have bigger leads at home also.
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Sometimes Self seems to get bored, when he can beat a coach like Fisher with his best players and so he decides to rub it in by beating Fish with his lesser players. How else to explain it?
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I know our young guys need experience but i agree with the decision to let Mari play. He earned those mins last night. He gave us a spark and energy that no one else was giving last night. I do think Cheick should be eating whatever mins LL is getting though.
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BamBam brought energy, and call it what you want… pace? BamBam and Perry stayed busy and it helped prevent our entire team from slumping. Wayne did a lot of nice things with the limited minutes he had.
Energy is always going to be the issue on the road. We didn’t bring it in the beginning of the second half, while the Aztecs came out charged. We all know our game this year is defined by “fast pace” so at times we have to put guys in that will help us keep the game moving.
The beginning of the second half… we had guys standing around… especially on offense. We missed a bunch of bunnies and just couldn’t put the ball in the hole. All of that helped charge up the Aztecs.
Wayne was huge in the second half. So was BamBam… pulling down some key rebounds that kept possessions alive.
Perry… this was definitely one of his better games as a Jayhawk! He maintained very consistent energy. He shouted out to his team constantly. His body language looked better than probably any road game he has faced as a Jayhawk.
There are so many areas of this team that are starting to shine. Imagine the struggle of our opposition to properly scout us? Who are they going to try to key on to stop? Wayne? Well… he does tend to captain the ship, but our skipper was plagued with fouls and watched the first half from below the hatch.
I thought that was impressive how our guys built a lead in the first half largely without Wayne. I am all for Wayne’s leadership and spark and guys keying off of him… but it is also great to know that others can step up when Wayne has an off-night.
This was a very impressive victory. Can our guys maintain this same focus and energy the rest of the season?
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Playing less talented but experienced player for as much as was done, necessarily means your more talented, less experienced players will continue to be so. And this against a team that is up and down.
While the win last night was very important, come March we won’t be talking about beating SDSU but we may be talking about how we weren’t prepared because our most talented folks underperformed in the tournament and our limited talent folks also just couldn’t get it done because…well, just because that is what happens in March, you play all very talented teams with experience.
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Viejas Arena is consistently listed as one of the top 10 toughest arenas in college basketball. You could hear when San Diego had its run how the place went crazy and the KU silence it wit h run of its own.
Say what you want about Traylor but there is no question that he brought the team back with his energy and hustle and timely rebounds and dives for the ball. The bigs are slowly developing, Mickelson still gets caught out of position more often than he should and the foul on the 3 point attempt was something he really should know better. Bragg and Diallo are still learning the game, and they are not yet strong enough to hold their position with sheer size and get pushed around quite a bit; actually, it is more a question of technique than strength and they are not there yet. Lucas is pretty much …now you see me and now you don’t. he brings rebounding and bulk but very limited offense. Until such time where Mickelson, Lucas, Diallo and Bragg can play more consistently smart, I am glad we have Jamari to fill the void.
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@Bwag So, whats your solution? Play bragg and diallo more and hope you dont lose an early season game because of their current inexperience? what is so wrong with playing guys that are playing well at that moment? If Jamari was having a bad night, trust me he would be on the bench, and someone else would be in. self plays the guys that deserve to be on the floor at that particular time. One easily could make an aurgument that this is how you prepare a team for the tough road ahead on up to NCAA tourney.
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Ok, try this ladies, is there anyone that thinks we lose last night if Jamari Traylor missed the flight to SD and didn’t make the trip? I am very interested.
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@HawkInMizery said:
I know our young guys need experience but i agree with the decision to let Mari play. He earned those mins last night. He gave us a spark and energy that no one else was giving last night. I do think Cheick should be eating whatever mins LL is getting though.
He played well. We all agree. But what I can’t accept, is that the others would not have performed well too.
What concerns me, is we rode the horse too long and now don’t know what the others woulda, coulda, shoulda done. We will never know. Pull the guys out and coach them on the sideline on what was/was not happening while they were on the floor. Send them back in and see if they can correct and perform in a pressure situation.
What I think I saw and would like the x/o guys to break down, is that SDSU quit double teaming the bigs and played them straight up, and like we know now from couple years EXPERIENCE, is we don’t perform well back to the basket. Now we didn’t have the pass out of the double team to open players, creating great ball movement that we saw in the first half, and now all of a sudden, we’re making bad throws and driving inot the lane willy nilly missing contested shots.
At this time of the game (early 2nd) Seldon was still sleepwalking from his extended nap on the sideline from the 1st. What broke it open, was Seldon finally pulled out from way deep - not driving into the defense, and hit that 3 pointer. Then drove hit the in close shot and we straightened the ship.
Yes, Mari played strong from there on out, and while critical rebounds etc…not sure once we got untracked, we couldn’t have gone back to rotating big guys in and get them experience in THAT atmosphere, THAT critical situation and see if they perform. As I said above, now we will not know. Unless we think that Mari is our long term success-in-March & April guy.
All that, glad we got the win. Wondering if Self is resigned to 5 by committee and ride the horse that’s performing, but not sure where, if not done with a finer tuning, if we get where we want to be for tournament readiness. But that’s why Self gets the big bucks…and I certainly don’t know what the effect of practice will have on development for “short term” players ie. OAD 2AD with talent.
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@HighEliteMajor Probably not. But we don’t know. I don’t know if he was in when they cut the lead to 4. How does the game change if he doesn’t get some of those offensive boards? Again, we probably still win. The first road game of the season…in a tough environment like that, was probably not the place to get Diallo and Bragg their minutes. I noticed that Bragg came out when he missed that shot that looked like he was going to dunk. Quick hook…probably a little to quick. But, I don’t fault Self for playing who seemed to be the most effective.
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God help this board if Jamari continues to play better and better. Maybe if we can use Jamari to get us a big lead then Diallo can come in and play more. Self was quoted when talking about the C5 that if you spoke with, Ellis and Frank, they would rather have Jamari on the floor, but Self said that we have to find minutes for Diallo and Bragg to play. I agree, but after losing a lead in a hostile Arena to a good team that has talented Freshmen, I’m glad the college graduate showed the upstarts that there was one Big Man that wouldn’t be pushed under the goal. Yes, HEM, we could have easily lost this game with the loud crowd momentum with Frank having a bad second half, Bragg acting like a Freshman. Yes Diallo needs minutes, but I, like Self, want to win every game. Who says that learning can’t take place by watching what works instead of continuing to screw up what obviously wasn’t working.
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@HighEliteMajor Let me guess your opinion on this. We still win the game without Jamari playing. You may be right. The question is, really?? This is the topic you (and others, bwag, AsadZ) bring up when he has a good solid game and helps the team?? This is what you are concerned with when we win against a decent team on the road? That Jamari gets playing time and plays well instead of the guys you think should be out there?
Weak and Sad my freind.
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@HighEliteMajor I agree to a point. I would rather Bragg and Diallo get minutes in a home game than on the road, even if it is against Iowa State or Baylor.
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The following quotes are from last night’s SDS Chat.
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OK @HighEliteMajor…do you think we lose last night if Diallo and Bragg missed the flight to SD and didn’t make the trip? We are all very interested.
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@HawkInMizery I’m always perplexed to see LL on the court when Diallo or Bragg could be out there. He can seal the post, we get it…but…
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Actually, I didn’t offer an opinion. It’s kind of funny how folks just react with angry statements. The same folks that have sat obviously quiet while we have won by a combined 90 points in the last three games with Traylor playing a total of 13 minutes.
But I think last night was quite a bit different than the Lucas vs. Harvard thing, for example; or the “Traylor was the best player” vs. Loyola. Both were farces.
I thought Traylor played very well in the second half. And last night, when Traylor went in the game, it did seem like momentum switched after a few trips up and down the floor. That was a game where home crowd, momentum, etc. - you don’t know how things can swing. Sure, Self could have subbed out Traylor and played Diallo or Bragg, but he did what he said he was going to do, an rode the hot hand.
But more importantly, Self isn’t saying that Traylor is a 20 minutes per game guy every game. His actions have shown that it’s flexible and pliable. Self has actually been pretty clear in where this is headed. That’s much better than saying Traylor is a rotation mainstay. We have now moved past that I think. We know what the future holds. It’s just a matter of time.
Traylor is most effective situationally. Last night seemed like a “situation” to me.
Actually, Traylor had zero turnovers and he had 3 steals. Those are big deals when he plays 20 minutes. The offensive boards were very important, of course. But Traylor was disruptive, something he has to be to be effective, and he didn’t give back his steals in the way of turnovers. Which happens frequently.
This is the sort of “peak” performance game we’ll see from Traylor. We’ll get some of them. This was Traylor at his best, minus a few put backs that he tends to get when he’s playing well. But that didn’t matter last night. The consistency of good performances is what we see that is lacking. Thus why the need to have a better rotation alternative.
There is zero doubt in my mind that Self made the right decisions to win last night. That seems self-evident by our clear control of the game and the margin of victory.
I have a macro opinion of “play the best player” to reach our ceiling. But the “micro” of “win the game at hand” is a different discussion. The macro is the discussion of Diallo and Bragg, and their minutes.
It’s a lot easier to accept the playing time for Traylor when it appears clear that Self has moved past the idea of Traylor as a 20 mpg guy every night. Much, much easier.
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Each game is different. It is up to Coach Self to figure out what works. Jamari played like a Senior last night. He showed why Coach Self believes in him. It was a joy to watch. Diablo is five game behind and that is unfortunate. Hopefully, he will catch up in Conference play. Bragg is going to be special. This year’s team has talent and experience in the post. That’s a nice problem for Coach Self to have. Great win on the road.
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Thank you. I’m not angry with you. I agree with your missive and I do know that Traylor will be getting less minutes and I agree with you that Diallo will play more and Traylor less. However, as soon as he goes into a game, for any minutes whatsoever, why do some people yell NO NO. I felt very safe with the coaching decision last night and was hoping like all of us are that Diallo will be our Savior. Actually, Diallo emulates Traylor in his ability to not be averse to diving for a lose ball. Merry Christmas.
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I’m with many who want to see Cheick get more minutes so he is ready in March.
However… what Self is doing is rewarding the group of guys on the floor that are getting the best results. The first half he throws everyone out there, and the second half is the reward for the best combinations. As soon as he sees Cheick as the best option, Cheick will get those second half minutes.
This is smart. Make these guys earn their minutes every game. And we have several bigs who are seniors, so he doesn’t belittle them by just benching them and playing for “potential.”
This is the way to keep all of these guys working hard in practice and fighting for minutes. And it should keep the guys happy because it is up to them to perform well enough to get those second half minutes.
I get the feeling Self is rethinking his recruiting. Sure, he wants the top players. But ALL recruits will have to earn their PT on his team. Every once in a while we will land an elite that isn’t afraid of working hard and fighting for his minutes. Self can’t change the mindset of the elite masses. He has to deal with a bunch of unrealistic kids.
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@ajvan i’m just as perplexed as you and seems as if he always picks up one really dumb or obvious offensive foul every game
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@HighEliteMajor Wow, i am kindof reluctant to post this but I’m surprised that my breakdown of what I saw is rougher than yours. I was actually thinking that Traylor was the reason why SDSU went on that run and cut the lead to just 4. Having Traylor in the game takes away a scoring threat on offense. He simply cannot score and limits the flow of offense. We end up playing 4 on 5 in the halfcourt offense. I watched time after time our team struggle to get into sync with him in the game. Couldn’t stop yelling at the TV hoping that somehow Self would hear me and sub him out. I don’t think its coincidence that our offense was running like a well oiled machine for the first half of which he did not play much at all that I can recall. Sure SDSU made some adjustments but so did we, and ours hurt us too.
To give him some credit though, I think your comment that he did well within his limitations is perfectly accurate, some big rebounds, a nice steal, and most importantly his free throw shooting. Thats the best we will see. But if Bragg is in the game instead of Mari, I really don’t think that the lead gets down to where it did, I feel very strongly about that. If a firefighter starts a fire, then saves the family inside the burning building by putting it out, is he still a hero?
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@drgnslayr Solid. Very well put.
It does seem though, that Bragg and Diallo get the quick hook and they need playing time to be ready for March. We are less than a couple weeks away from the start of conference and they need to be ready for that too. That being said, Perry and Traylor were our best bigs last night. They both played extremely well and deserved a lot of credit for that big win.
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@RockkChalkk The offense came to a halt at the beginning of the second half because the ball was sticking much more than in the first. People were trying to dribble rather than pass and play became a bit more selfish. This was much more on Frank, Wayne, and Devonte than Jamari. We didn’t get any real scoring from the 5. We got 2 points from Hunter, 2 from Carlton, 4 from Cheick, and 6 from Jamari. How did our scoring slow down because of him? As was pointed out, he was in the second half to get things moving after the team showed a lack of hustle at the beginning of that half and to hit the boards which he did.
Since Self was getting what he wanted from him he stayed in. I was screaming at the TV also in the second half. That had much, much more to do with missing bunny after bunny after bunny than with the lack of offense from Jamari.
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@sfbahawk Yes…missing those layups was driving me crazy. That and some sloppy play on our part was how SDSU got back into the game.
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you know what? wouldn’t it be great to be able to change spots with Coach? I mean he could come switch spots in our house, let him sit in the recliner, kick back have his brew, or pop, or tea WHATEVER, and some chips have his snack, be able to kick back watch the game, be able to yell at the TV,& we be the coach? wouldn’t that be sweet? ummmm 2nd thought, you know what? I think I’ll stick with Coach Self, his play calling, his decision making, I mean I think I’ll go with the guy that ummmm I dunno- - that has won 11 straight conference championships, that is 195-9, hasn’t lost 10 games at home since he has been here, a coach that has won a national Championship for us, a Coach who’s teams have been in the top 25, and close to the very top of the top 25 since he has been here, and what I think I heard he is or right about like 361-79 a 82% winning pct in his coaching career? - - -umm ya, I think I will have a tendency to stick with him instead of myself or any of ya all’s as the coach, Ya Ya I know we all could be THAT coach right? sure looks like he has to be making some right decisions for him to have accomplished, what he has accomplished, I just got this feeling that he might, just might know just a little bit more about whats going on then we do, so I think I’ll just continue to sit here in my recliner, drink my juice and be able to chill and let the Coach,- -Coach we gonna be ok, our C5’s ARE GONNA BE FINE. Until Cheick, can come to the realization that he is not going to be able to block every single thing that comes to the basket, until Cheick comes to the realization that he has to stay on his feet and not leave them everytime there is a little head fake, until Cheik can stay on the floor without committing a fould like a foul every 2 minutes, exp ( fouls out in 10 minutes of playing time) then he will continue to get limited minutes, yes he looked better the amount of time he was in last night, more relaxed, but like others have said Jamari was getting it done, & I have no problem what so ever with Coach playing him the amount of time he did. Cheick will get there, but like so many others have said, he is raw very, very raw going to take time ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@RockkChalkk You certainly make excellent points. Traylor limits our offense all the time. Can’t argue with you at all there. I would not have played Traylor over Bragg, period. The only point I was making was that in seeing the result, and the 3 steals vs. zero turnovers, and the offensive boards, Traylor had a good game from a “net” standpoint.
We have some folks here that just react angrily at any discussion of Traylor. I’ve found what gets them even angrier are numbers and stats, so I apologize in advance, since it is Christmas time.
Last season, Traylor had 20 games where he committed more turnovers than steals – 20. He only had 4 games where he had more steals than turnovers. This is important for Traylor because he doesn’t score, and his activity and supposed “energy” are why he’s playing. The SDSU game was the first in his career at +3, steal/turnovers (not saying that is ever expected from a post player in one game; but it stood out and explains my favorable position on Traylor in the SDSU game). He also has a nice offensive rebounding game. All that is why this game vs. SDSU was such an outlier.
Now, Traylor didn’t score vs. SDSU – just 6 points. But that was largely irrelevant given the balance of his numbers.
So this was one of exceptions to the “negative net” rule for Traylor.
By the way, for the angry Traylor lovers, he is still our worst rotation player. His player efficiency rating is still the worst on the team, even after his “peak” performance Tuesday.
But the Diallo/Bragg question that Traylor gets lumped in with is not a micro one, it is a macro one. And I plan to address that in a few days.
@JayHawkFanToo Of course, you didn’t answer my questions about Traylor.
Regarding Diallo and Bragg, yes, I think we win at SDSU without either of them. In fact, I think we could go 25-10 or 27-9 and lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tourney without them, as well.
With that backhanded question, I will acknowledge (as I have in the past) that Traylor (with CF) saved us from losing to Eastern Kentucky in the first round in 2013-14 with the best performance of his life. Without Traylor, I’ll acknowledge we lose in the first round that year.
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For this new year, I’m going to make a little space in my heart for Jamari. I’m not saying I’ll be unrealistic about expectations; but the kid is a hard worker and beloved by Self. I’m going to appreciate the fact that Jamari adds depth to the soul of this team, and look at his minutes as more than just productive, tangible basketball output.
We’ll see how long this lasts, but that’s one of my resolutions.
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“Self was quoted when talking about the C5 that if you spoke with, Ellis and Frank, they would rather have Jamari on the floor, but Self said that we have to find minutes for Diallo and Bragg to play.”
I think Jamari probably offers the best team chemistry. Besides Perry, he is the guy that has plenty of game experience and half a decade to learn the system and players.
Cheick is a work in progress. He is starting to learn a few low post finishes now. He has to start fusing in better with team play on both sides of the ball. I’m sure he isn’t a selfish player, but team chemistry typically takes time to develop.
Carlton brings a total different skill set, including the ability to hit midrange. And his low post passing is the best I have ever witnessed from a KU post player. The chemistry seems to be starting to click more with Carlton than Cheick, but Cheick is playing catch up.
We can clearly see how Cheick’s NCAA punishment hurt him and hurt us.
I wonder if Cheick is a sure OAD? It seems that if he is, Self would be making public statements about that to show potential big men recruits so they would be more certain and sign with KU.
I wonder about that.
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“That being said, Perry and Traylor were our best bigs last night.”
Self recently dropped the hammer on our seniors. In a nutshell, Self said: “it is time our seniors play like seniors.”
And they did. Perry and Jamari brought their big boy games to San Diego.
This is outrageously crucial. The focus has to be on our senior leadership, not our potential OADs.
Self is pushing on our experienced players to play their best. And our underclassmen are supposed to REACH UP to the level of play provided by our experienced players, instead of our experienced players FALLING DOWN to the level of our rookies.
I am always critical of Self. It isn’t his fault, it is me. I’m just that way. But I have to say that I can’t find much criticism lately. He seems to really be on his “A-game” including his energy on the sidelines for games. He seems more perked up lately. I see him standing and shouting on the sidelines compared to some of his recent years where he mostly sat and quietly conversed with his assistants.
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@approxinfinity he is a Jayhawk! I think being one is very meaningful to him, perhaps more than others.
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@drgnslayr Excellent point. He has started to play to this team’s strengths, but just because you play outside - in doesn’t mean you can’t throw it inside occasionally and play tough defense. So far, it seems to be one of his best coached seasons.
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@JayHawkFanToo Of course, you didn’t answer my questions about Traylor.
Regarding Diallo and Bragg, yes, I think we win at SDSU without either of them. In fact, I think we could go 25-10 or 27-9 and lose in the first weekend of the NCAA tourney without them, as well.
You missed my point. You could leave just about any KU player at home and still win (or lose) most games, so zeroing on Traylor when the same can be said about any other players was disingenuous, wouldn’t you agree?
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@HighEliteMajor I’m a little confused at the reactions to your comment.
He simply asked the question because in the past, Traylor was hailed as the best player in the second half a few games back and you analyzed that we would still have won without him. Compare that to this game, and you have a different outcome.
I’m not sure how anyone can disagree with your post that is based on facts and not an immeasurable aspect like chemistry and arbitrarily adding value to what you can’t measure.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but to sum your opinion, it’s simply JT shouldn’t be a regular top 3 big in the rotation but that doesn’t count him out for getting 20 minutes depending on the matchup and situation.
People preemptively assumed you were down playing JT in that game when in reality, it was the opposite.
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@JhawkAlum You are exactly right. Certain folks here have comprehension problems. It would be top 4 in the rotation, from my perspective, with Lucas or Traylor as the 5th.
@JayHawkFanToo Do you not even try to connect the dots here and the reason for my post above with the question, before suggesting that my comment is disingenuous?
First, of course. We could have gone to SDSU without Mason and won. Or without Ellis, most likely. Or anyone. Of course. You have identified the self evident. And, as you saw, I answered your question. We are playing inferior non-conference opponents.
Second, with that, it highlights the silliness of playing Lucas 24 minutes earlier in the season at home – again, as if we couldn’t have won without him. Pure nonsense. The same with playing Traylor 21 minutes vs. SDSU (Macro, not micro – Traylor played well vs. SDSU). Lucas’ situation was both, but my point focuses on the macro.
Third, and follow with me here, if we can literally win most games if we are missing “any KU player” as you correctly suggest, then why in the world would we play arguably our two worst players — ever? When we have our two highest ceiling players, according to Self, on the bench?
Again, your statement is the exact purpose of my question. Traylor is not indispensable. And as such, as the worst or second worst rotation player, why play him at all?
See, I answered your question because it doesn’t really concern me where your line of thought takes us. You, and the others here who illogically defend the Traylor/Lucas decisions, refuse to answer when I have asked questions – questions that move such “thinkers” into a corner. It’s why you and the Traylor/Lucas defenders won’t answer.
I asked this question earlier, before the season, and I’ll ask it now – based on performance, if we had to lose one current KU rotation player for the season, who would you choose?
That’s my point. It’s the macro discussion on playing time, and why playing either Traylor or Lucas big minutes right now makes zero sense when you have two guys on the bench that need the minutes to develop.
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With all due respect, your answer is even more disingenuous than your original question. First, you try to word your question as more generic than specific, but it is abundantly obvious that your point is/was that Traylor would not have been missed and should not be playing. Believe it or not, WE GET IT. Like I said, most every other players could have missed the plan and KU would have still won…so what is the point of citing Traylor specifically?
The point is that you are not the coach at KU and you have the luxury of being a Lazy Boy PG…after the fact. Coach Self has to evaluate every player under all circumstances and decide on playing time after he has all the facts in. Before the WUG most of us would have thought that Svi and not Selden would be the stud at KU but we saw it otherwise. Many players are great in practice and not so much during games and other are not that good in practice and excel at game time. Coach Self’s and staff job is to evaluate ALL players under all condition and based on that data make decision going forth, and this is exactly what he has done; now he has a much better idea of how much and when to play the different players and how to tweak the lineup when the game plan is not going as planned. You can only go so far using past experience for players. You know that players do change during the off season, some dramatically…right?
As he and many other coached have indicated, they like to get to the meat of the schedule and have a lineup of no more than 8 players. This by no means indicates that thy will play only 8 players, only that those players will be the core of the lineup and the rest will play on an “as needed” basis…and this is exactly what he is doing.
Maybe you should lay back, relax and let Coach do his job, he does it better than most everybody else and you probably would enjoy the sport a lot more.
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You can’t finish a story with 2/3 of the story yet to come. The season is a process- not an event. I think this team transforms into a national contender that will have a very good shot of winning back to back championships the next two years. I say keep an open mind, and this team could end up better than any of us could imagine.
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@JayHawkFanToo bu we are FANaticS, so we comment, argue, complain and cheer!
I think HEM’s point can’t be downplayed. Mari playing time now, comes at a cost that, many of us fear, will be payed later at greater consequence than an early season game against inferior quality apponents.
On top of that, the PER stats he quotes tend to make the case about actual contribution of players on the game and those tend towards Mickeson, Bragg and probably a lesser extent Diallo at this point.
If experience is important, and no one disagrees that it is, then early season games should focus on getting your more talented, but less experienced players more experience in game situations.
But you are right, Coach gets to see the whole picture at both practice and game situations and has to make the call as to where maximum improvement can be made and then live with the results. Truth is us FANaticS “live and die” with those results too.
Merry Christmas all and Rock Chalk.
Can’t wait to see Tuesday’s game and see how we do against the length of our opponent.
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@JayHawkFanToo Again, you don’t answer the questions posed. We know why.
And you don’t follow along too well. Self is giving valuable, on the road, hostile environment playing time to a low ceiling, low talent player – instead of injecting our higher talent players in crunch time minutes, in that situation – in a situation you admit we would have won without Traylor. Traylor and Lucas, on the front end, are costing this team on the back end. Every minute they play in lieu of our higher talented players costs us. Why? Why leave Diallo and Bragg on the bench? Why pass up (again) an opportunity to provide these players the valuable experience the Self says was the deciding factor in playing Traylor? All as @Bwag said above.
Selden and Traylor? Now you’re getting comical. I mean, more than normal. You actually compare an NBA level talent to Traylor? A top 15 player to a top nothing player? You’re hopeless. And before you act with indignation like you regularly do, and go circular in the discussion – when you use Traylor in one paragraph, and then go to the next paragraph citing Selden – saying “players do change during the off season, some dramatically” – that implies that you are comparing the two. So yes, you are suggesting that Traylor could improve dramatically. That’s just anticipating your typical response.
So you sit here today saying Traylor could improve by leaps and bounds, huh?
As @Bwag stated, look at the PER. Traylor is still the worst of the rotation players, even after Tuesday’s game. Selden, last season, was 11.9. Now he’s at 25.0. Traylor last season? 12.7 – ugh. Now, 15.5. Same cloth. Diallo and Bragg are both 33% or more better from a PER perspective than Traylor, if it matters to you (which I know it doesn’t).
And remember, when Traylor improves a little from last season to this season, he’s still a poor player.
Again, you throw out this disingenuous thing. I say what I think. I’m not hiding or shirking from anything. Yet you are too insecure to answer questions posed because you understand the implication of your responses.
And when you say lay back and let coach do his job, you mean the same coach that admitted that I was right and he was wrong last season? That’s the coach I assume you mean.
We had lots of discussions where you angrily defended Self, that he knows best, the same baloney. Now, he admits:
Bill Self - “I do think we need to shoot a higher percentage of threes. I do think we need to play to our strength, which is shooting the basketball.”
Bill Self - “Last year, we kept trying to force it to become something we probably weren’t.”
I know these quotes are painful, and I would not expect you to act with humility, or be contrite. Others might be. Until then, please remind me to throw them in your face any time you want to suggest that we should blindly buy what Bill Self is selling because he is Bill Self — which is all you do.
I challenged you last year to tell me something substantively that you disagreed with Self on. You remained silent. I assume that remains the same.
Here’s another question you could answer – name me one other offensive move that Traylor has other than driving to his right from the free throw line? I mean, that he has perfected in 4 plus seasons in a Kansas uniform. You have 30 seconds.
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@HighEliteMajor Just drop the holier than thou, I’m smarter than you crap. That’s why people call you disingenuous. You make your points in ways that you come across as a smug, arrogant, a-hole who assumes he’s the smartest man in the room. Try showing some humility instead being a condescending jackass to people.
Whether or not the way I’m characterizing you right now is truly your intent or not, that is the tone that comes across on here and it doesn’t accomplish anything productive to try and prove you know more than Self.
For someone who claims to agree with 90% of what Self does, you sure as hell critize him for anything that doesn’t line up with your opinion and appears to be way more than 10% of the decisions Self majes you take issue with. I haven’t read your macri/micro thing yet, but I can make a pretty reasonable guess what’s in it. I might be reaching here, but I would guess you didn’t talk your opinion vs. Self’s.
We all know you live in the macroverse of player development at the expense of a few more losses throughout the season. We also know Bill Self lives in the microverse of trying to win every game at the expense of player development at times. Your criticism of Self for having a different view and approach to coaching philosophy is like a Christian expecting a Hindu to live by Christian teachings and then critizing the Hindu for not living up to Christian standards.
