Speaking of BG
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Personally, I think the #FreeGreene buzz is pure rubbish. “As if” his benching is anything on the same planet as Cheik Diallo’s treatment by the NCAA. Apples and oranges. Brannen Greene’s own starkly unacceptable actions put himself in trouble. Not the same as Diallo’s situation.
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I think we have to temper all of our attitudes toward BG. His biggest fault? He wanted to play more to help the team and handled that situation poorly.
No, he isn’t going to transfer and has said as much. He will get his chances this year and will likely have big time opportunity next year.
He clearly hasn’t figured everything out yet, and yes his actions hurt the team by him not being able to be there for him. But he is a Jayhawk. A pround Jayhawk. Check his social media and he will tell you the same thing.
So has he been the model citizen no and he is paying for that, but neither has he betrayed his teammates or even taken a me first attitude.
He’ll be fine.
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@benshawks08 Perfect perspective. There is no victory for any of us KU alums (& fans) to see BG become a casualty of whatever his circumstances or frustrations or immaturity. Deep down, of course we want to see him shine. It just seems his stubborn streak is a bit harder to tame than other guys’. But that quality can also translate into being a winner on the hardwood, if channeled constructively…
(My post about the #freeGreene thing was purely anti-copycat coattailing of the very legitimate #freeDiallo trending. If someone buys into the #freeGreene thing, they haven’t been paying attention to all these growing pains (to put it kindly) that BG has been putting before Self. Other than kicking a guy off the team like Giddens, Gile, Naadir, this is Self’s worst penalty I can recall in his 12yrs)
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@ralster said:
this is Self’s worst penalty
Morningstar: suspended the entire first semester after a DUI.
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Nice post…
I hope that he sticks it out through all this adversity. He’s another weapon we can definitely use when this team isn’t having great shooting nights, like on the road in conference play. Greene has always been amazing at coming off the bench cold, and draining shots which isn’t an easy thing to do.
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BG is in unchartered ground here, not because of length–Brady got 6 months in the hurt locker back when the Trade Bank of Iraq’s loans were still secure and ISIS reputedly started by American, British and Israeli intelligence to get rid of Assad and drive the Iraqi gubmint back into the US/GB/ISRAELI fold had not been bombed by Putin.
BG is off the map in the land of screw up.
He is deep in the heart of do-do without Global Shit Positioning.
He has seen the enemy and it is a hero with a thousand faces in a hurt locker East of Eden but west of the Haiffa pipeline…
He is digging himself a hole with the big shovel down at the strip pits and just about to hit Yuen in China.
He is reaping a whirl wind on wood.
He is Beowulf on the bench.
The question is: will he stop and do epic things for The. Basketball Geats, or will he just go straight to the funeral pyre on the rocky promontory sticking far out over a Kaw river valley marked the end of a hoops hero’s age?
Heroism is a bitch.
Just ask those Georgians that tried to keep Sherman in Chattanooga
There is a lesson in the hero myth.
The hero’s got to be on the right side before he can make the suffering count for something more than a pine box made from north Georgia fir.
Cue the James Brown funk:
GET ON THE RIGHT SIDE
AINT IT FUNKY NOW…
You can do it, Brannen.
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I really hope BG doesn’t transfer, hopefully he is a man of his word or should I say tweet? And stay at KU tough it out and become and alum.
This kid has a great stroke, passion, even flare. In the words of Crash Davis about Nuke Laroosh, He has a million dollar arm and a 5 cent brain.
In a way that in a round about way sums up BGs time at KU. Able to shoot at anytime but yet doesn’t think about his actions.
Just hope when his 6 is up he comes out under control, with the understanding of his role and kicks some serious a$$ for this team.
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@jaybate-1.0 Great Global Positioning Schizz JB…“ain’t it funky now”… FYI James & the Flames were the first Big concert I ever went to as a teenager-mid 60’s at Municipal…complete with ultra power dance contest, full orchestra, riot gear & police dogs. Chased all the way to the 64 Impala in the garage & out…What a virgin experience for a kid from the farm !!
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Really enjoying this thread and the rational positive attitudes about BG. It’s picking up my attitude on him. A dose of reality for me.
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Greene is like a lot of guys. He wants to play because he is good.
No doubt about it, Brannen Greene is a very good basketball player that would be starting at all but maybe 15 or 20 schools in the country. Think about that for a second. Brannen Greene sits on the bench at KU and he looks out and sees guys that he knows he is better than playing for other teams every night. That’s frustrating.
Now, when some guys get frustrated, they channel all of that energy into practice and just unleash every day to prove they belong on the court. For others, that frustration becomes a burden and it weighs them down. I think BG got burdened, and then boiled over. It’s a bad look, but at least we know he’s a competitor.
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@justanotherfan I don’t like to speak ill of our players so I will just say, basketball is a team sport. Team always comes first!
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@globaljaybird
The hardest working man in show business!!!
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When James Brown was in Africa, the “POSE” for the Diallo Dunk was invented. James would have been a great “Twitch” point guard and the Jayhawks this year have his energy. Watch the highlight from the 1966 segment showing the POSE.
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@ParisHawk said:
@ralster said:
this is Self’s worst penalty
Morningstar: suspended the entire first semester after a DUI.
Which is usually 6-7 games so about the same.
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I agree. I was in BG’s position as a HS player. I wasn’t nearly as good, but I was a very solid player. I was frustrated for a number of reasons, but the fact that I wasn’t playing was driving me nuts, especially after losses. If we won, I was as happy as anyone, but when we lost, I was frustrated and angry, especially if I didn’t play and thought I could have helped turn that L into a W.
But I wasn’t the type of guy that complained to my coaches about PT. I was the guy that just unleashed in practice every single day. My team only lost one scrimmage the entire year. One. And I didn’t play with the starters most days. I kept my mouth shut and just unloaded all that frustration every day. But that was my personality. I wasn’t going to sit around and gripe, other than in private conversations with my dad. But around my teammates and coaches, I just played, and I played hard. I ran hard in sprints. I went after every loose ball. I grabbed every rebound. I took it personal if my man even got a touch on offense, let alone score. I studied our team defense and barked out rotations, even from the bench during games.
My coach still didn’t play me much. I don’t know why. I haven’t spoken to him in almost 15 years. But I didn’t quit playing hard, either in practices or in games. I just didn’t play for him. I played for my teammates, and I gained their respect, as evidenced by the fact that even though I was 6th or 7th in minutes for my squad, I was the guy that everyone looked to when they had questions about what we were running, or should run, or how to break certain schemes, or to say something before games, or in timeout huddles. My teammates respected my talent and my knowledge more than my coach. And after all this time, I have found that the respect I earned from them was worth more than the minutes my coach didn’t give me.
I just hope BG can find the same peace. If you’re frustrated with your coach, play for your brothers. Find someone that you can trust to blow off steam, someone that will not talk to the media or anyone else, so when you have a tough day, you can vent without it ending up all over social media. But either way, play hard because if you play hard and play for your brothers, you will find a way to enjoy the game.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
Which is usually 6-7 games so about the same.
Morningstar missed two exhibition games and nine regular season games. Semester finals ended December 18th and KU played its 10th game against Michigan State December 19th.
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Excellent post that everyone should read.
Wayne is very unselfish… maybe sometimes too unselfish. He is a great teammate.
I hope BG develops a better perspective. He is starting to give the impression he may be a “bad apple”… and we all know what a bad apple can do to the rest of the apples…
I think between now and the end of the year, we are going to know where BG’s head is at.
Stay and fight.
Turn and run.
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Greene is a great spot-up shooter. No way I classify him as a good D1 player. Take away his spot shot and how many D1 teams will he start for? Maybe 50…
So… when we put him into the game, he has to make treys in order to stay in the game. It is doubtful we will run specific plays for BG… so he has to create his own scoring opportunities. But if he isn’t in there scoring at a rapid clip, he needs to ride the bench… OR develop the rest of his game! (light bulb thought)
This is where Self is at on BG (and any winning coach would be). This is the frustration Self has and why he made the comment that some guys (BG) just doesn’t “get it.”
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Crimson It appears that you dislike BG otherwise why would you post such a negative post. You must not have seen BGs tweet in which he clearly stated his position, perhaps you should go and check it out. Hopefully it will put a better perspective for you.
BG could have transferred but his heart is at KU and he is sticking it out through thick & thin. He is a Jayhawk for life.
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With a slight flip of the letters that’s one helluva perfect handle if there ever was one …
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Can you please enlighten us about his tweet since there is nothing about it there now. You are trying to defend the indefensible, Brannen was way, way out of line, not only with the coaching staff but also with his fellow players and with some, if not most, other coaches he would have been gone from the team.
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@JayHawkFanToo. This is in the thread when he was suspended.
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That tweet is not there anymore and it is obvious why. He claims that he could have helped with all the things that he has never before shown he can do. I am sorry but that post is silly and self-serving; however, I can see hwy you would think is great…
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@JayHawkFanToo I was just sharing the tweet knowing that it was on this site. So people could see it.
Didn’t mean to get involved just letting people get the whole story.
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@drgnslayr Good pointing out ralster’s comment. As much as I harp on Selden, there is no doubt that his teammates love him. I just never thought of him leading by example. It seems like he’s finally, finally starting to do that consistently over the course of multiple games. I loved that play he created in the post for Mickelson. The old Wayne would have never done that. I love the fast break he had a few games ago where he slowed down just enough to get control and make the right decision. Everyone who plays FIFA for the first time loves the turbo button because it makes you go fast, but you lose the ball to the defense every time. HERKY JERKY. It’s IMPORTANT to be unpredictable. I think for the past 3 years, I’ve witnessed Perry Ellis and Wayne Selden make the same moves over and over again expecting the same positive result. Finally, it seems like they have changed their games to be more reactive and situational. What does this have to do with Greene?
Well, the first notable Greene had this season was a guy literally dribbling right by him to score on one of the wings. It was like seeing him Freshman year all over again. But aside from this, Greene has improved in almost every area. He’s got a little herky jerky in him. So what’s the problem?
Well, it’s the leadership question. Why does everyone on the team love Wayne Selden? It’s something Greene must ask himself, but maybe we can help him here. 1) Selden rarely talks about his “ability” or how scoring is “what he does”. Greene has said this kind of stuff in interviews, and it’s like watching Josh Selby all over again. 2) Wayne Selden wants all of his teammates to succeed. Greene evidently believes he needs to voice that he should play over others (publicly?) Selden is always at the center of celebrations on the sidelines. It’s because he’s genuinely happy. You can feel it.
Love and cohesiveness are too important to the team. More important than another three point shooter. I think it’s time for Greene to take a hard look at himself and what he’s trying to prove. If you’re trying to enter the NBA as a marginal player, you need to have those intangibles, those leadership skills that they look for, and here is where Greene could learn a thing or two from Wayne. Because the pros pay very close attention to this stuff. Do you make the team better or worse with your presence?
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@JayHawkFanToo May sound silly to you, he has explained the situation very clearly.
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Spacing and ball movement? Have you ever seen Green do that? He just stands in one place hoping the defender moves away so he is wide open for the spot up shot. Greene cannot get open with or without the ball. Watch how players like Curry get open with or without the ball and get back to me…like I said, his offer to help in areas he has shown he is not capable of doing is…well, silly…
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@JayHawkFanToo JK…Kinda sounds like you’re dueling with an unarmed man…LOL
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Self’s quote today about Greene: “There’s been nothing from a basketball standpoint, from a talent standpoint or skill standpoint, that has been disappointing to me in the least. We just need to all be on the same page. I think his talent is high, and I think he can give us, not only great minutes, but I think he can be a major contributor to everything we’re trying to do. The thing about it is, it’s also up to him. He’s got to buy in to everything that’s going on and not just certain things. But if he wants to do it, which I believe he does, he will. It’s not that complicated.”
This is perhaps my favorite Bill Self quote.
One may agree or disagree on Greene’s playing time and role, but this is how you win. It will be a pleasant surprise if this turns out well for Greene.
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@HighEliteMajor The man can work a media room! No one can argue that!
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@JayHawkFanToo Comparing a junior BG who has not played much at this point in time to Curry who is 7-8 year veteran in NBA is a silly comparison
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@AsadZ The comparison to Curry is silly – actually, using possibly the best shooter in NBA history in the same sentence with Greene, is silly. I believe that part of the reason why he does that, sometimes, is because he is defending Self’s decisions not to use Greene to the extent that many posters, media, etc. think Greene could/should be used. He and I have had that discussion before.
But I also believe the reason @JayHawkFanToo mentions Curry is to highlight his view that Greene is a one trick pony so to speak. It’s not really Curry, per se, but it is a shooter than can find his own shot – highlighting that Greene has limitations in that regard. And that goes to the point I have made here a number of times. To get the full value out of Greene, Self does need to run some specific plays for him to get his three point shot a handful of times per game (or something like that). Scheme to get the top production. Really, though, playing truly inside/out should create excellent step-in looks for Greene in the flow of what they normally do. It happened for most of last season.
Not to speak for @JayHawkFanToo too much here, but I think it’s also that Greene can’t drive the basketball with any effectiveness. Some good shooters have that option. As a defender, what would you guard? The shot, or the drive? With Greene, you don’t have to be very worried about the drive. Triple threat position, so to speak, becomes double threat position.
But make no mistake, Brannen Greene, in the right situation, would be lethal. Last seasons team though, need his production more than this season’s team. It was concerning that Self played him so little against MSU. It was leaving potential firepower out of the battle. But that’s what we’re going to get. Greene is the 5th perimeter player. We knew that in May. He has a chance to shoot himself into the 4th spot, but Self won’t want to rely upon him in certain situations because of his defensive weaknesses. Other coaches may look more at the net production. Self doesn’t do that many times. In certain games, he just flat wants a certain type of team on the floor. And we know from his now famous “three quarter deny” comments regarding Lucas, that Self likely gets fixated on micro elements of each game in determining playing time perhaps a bit too much (at least that situation would seem to indicate that).
I do feel bad for the kid in the sense that his talents have not been exploited, and have not been showcased. But right now, this is a national championship season. He is a role player who can provide a big impact. He needs to embrace his role, as Self said.
If he can’t embrace his role, exactly as Self expects, then he needs to go. Self spoke yesterday about the chemistry on this team. We can afford no disruptions to that, and no chance that Greene creates an undercurrent of discontent. The current dynamic on the perimeter is the engine that’s driving this team. That was highlighted in Maui when Greene wasn’t there. He needs to assimilate and do his job. I hope he can.
When we talk about guys that can win you games, Greene really heads the list. He’s the kind of guy that can heat up and flat win a tourney game or two. And with our team, if he’s cold, so what – we have other bullets in the chamber.
This team plays fast. It’s this team’s calling card. How does Greene fit? 45% from three fits on any team. You just better have the right attitude.
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A lil more from coach
“We want everybody to be on the same page and be fitting in as one. And certainly, when we’re all like that, I think it gives us a better chance to have more success.”
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article48040360.html#storylink=cpy
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I was court side in Boulder 12-7-13 to see our Hawks run out for warm-ups…Wiggs…Selden…BG…all raw freshmen coming off a disappointing trip to the Burmuda Triangle (remember that awful gym?) but I digress!
I commented on @Jesse-Newell’s now defunct in game blog that BG looked like the 2nd coming of Scottie Pippen. He seriously looked like Pippen while running around during warm-ups!
However, we’ve now all seen the lack of lateral movement on defense where his feet are seemingly stuck in place. Now the question I have is how much can lateral foot speed/movement be improved on? I’m sure it’s been addressed by Hudy, right?
Is it an unwillingness on BG’s part to improve his defense? Or is it a physical limitation? I assume Hudy gets these kids as close to their current age ceiling as possible, right?
For the record, I think BG’s 2nd half minutes were halted against MSU bc he said something to HCBS when taken out around 15:00. So when people say he didn’t get enough minutes that game I think that was his fault and not Self’s.
RCJHGKU!
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@VailHawk great ? Lack of or no desire to. I thought maybe the surgery would correct his problem of getting his butt down and sliding his feet. Better stop there.
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@VailHawk what do you think? Can he be physically fixed-Hudy? Or is it just mental-a nice way to put it?
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I guess you missed the part that read “players like Curry” and not just Curry alone. Curry is the gold standard and as was citing him as such and also because I have seen at least a dozen Golden State games this season and Curry always amazes me, but he is by no means the only one, every good 3 point shooter knows how to get open with or without the ball to get the shot off and when not available he will drive to the basket
Greene is a one trick pony that cannot get himself open, is not capable of taking it to the hole when the open shot is not available, and will not shoot when closely guarded and let’s not even start talking about his defense…or lack thereof…
Do you think that Greene is the best player at KU? Well, I don’t either but according to reports, in his outburst, he was telling Coach Self that he was the best player and he should be playing more…how do you think his teammates took these comments?..my first guess would be laughter followed by pity and then annoyance and exasperation…how would you have taken his comments and how do you think his comments impact team chemistry?
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@JayHawkFanToo That’s just speculation. There is no evidence that he said that in the locker room. Do you also realize that he is still recovering from a major hip surgery. It takes time to fully heal, the kid has not played much at all since last year.
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Nice post on Greene.
I said this summer… this would be the year where I stay on BG’s butt and not give him any breaks. BG had been living on “fool’s gold” in the context of why Self said it in the first place. He had put all his eggs in the trey basket, satisfied to be a one-trick pony.
But I am sensing that all the heavy pressure on Greene is starting to wake this guy up. In his limited time on the floor, he looks like he is starting to come around more on defense, and rebounding, and he even has made attempts to drive the ball, earning him FTs.
I’m not building a single expectation for Greene moving forward… because I don’t want to be crushed in such a speculation. He could end up transferring in January… or he could finally “give up” his old patterns and thoughts and start buying in to becoming a well-rounded player that might have a career after D1 somewhere. Until he does that, he isn’t even a good candidate for euro-ball.
BG doesn’t have crazy athleticism. But he has a great build to build on, and he has reasonable court awareness. He has plenty of upside. We should be seeing big leaps in his game every year. He should be a different player come March of this year. I hold no expectations but plenty of hope for BG. He is a Jayhawk. He needs the development not only to help his team, but to help him with his pursuits after D1.
My next concern… is there someone around to help direct his development? Aaron Miles, perhaps? I know he can’t actually coach these guys up formally. But he can sure talk to players and advise.
A few games back, when we shot FTs poorly… Self made a comment that indicated he really didn’t know if his guys were practicing FTs. That really stuck out and made me wonder if he follows (or directs) any of the player development.
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It is far from speculation. The information came from the only poster, @ralster, in this board that, as far as I know, has visited with Coach Self extensively, and his info in the past has been rock solid; it has also been discussed in other forums and I have not seen anything that indicates it is not correct…maybe you have proof it is not? Have you read that Greene’s rant was so bad that his parents were called in and his father did not seem to have any problem with the suspension? I imagine he would not have been surprised by a permanent suspension. This has been widely discussed before and there is no evidence to the contrary.
As far as the surgery, that was a long time ago and he has had plenty of time to recover based on the new surgical techniques currently used and time it now takes to recover; if he is not physically up to playing, then he should not even be suiting up for the game and should have taken a red shirt, right? You cannot have it both ways, if he is not up to speed then he should not be playing, if he is up to speed then you cannot blame his lacks of effort on the injury, right?
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@JayHawkFanToo Ok, You win the argument. Lets move on and hope for a great memorable season for the program.
