240 lbs of Recruiting Space Opened....
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If I have my preferences, we get Newman, Brown and Diallo (to keep him away from ISU). That gives us two creative perimeter scorers (which we need), plus two athletic big guys in Bragg and Diallo. If we lose Diallo, I think he lands at ISU and becomes our headache.
I don’t think we can get Zimmerman. He’s probably either UNLV or Arizona at this point. Rabb also probably stays on the west coast (UCLA or Arizona, maybe Cal).
Don’t know about Maker. He’s the wild card here. He could change everything in this class.
Ingram is the other wildcard here. He isn’t the top guy for any of the schools still recruiting him, but he is a nice addition to any class. If we miss on Brown, I would take Ingram in a heartbeat.
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Interesting. For all the talk in this board about not wanting OADs, all the recruiting talk appears to be centered on just those type of recruits, the Zimmermans, Diallos, Makers, Newmans, Brown, Raabs…all of them likely OAD candidates. Maybe we should look beyond the top 20 and look for for another undiscovered gem like Frank Mason…that type of player seems to be a better fit for Coach Self’s system plus we have a chance to watch em play for more than one year. Just a thought…
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@JayHawkFanToo You are correct – it is all we are now left with. The other guys are committed. The 15-80 rate recruits are gone. We have hung our hat on this OAD dynamic, and now here we are, spring, and hanging on the edge. I looked at available players and there just aren’t many at all. Are there folks you think are in play? I recalled Mason’s name being discussed for a while before his commitment, as a guy on the radar. And that was in the early period. Heck, we’re really late now. I would think anyone we get is unranked, high risk, Lucas/Traylor level.
@justanotherfan - So if we get Newman and Brown, you’re fine then with some of our current perimeter players transferring? Guys aren’t going to stick around if that happens, right?
@benshawks08 - you said “To me it seems any of the bigs would start beside Perry next year, if not at the beginning of the year, at least by the end” – I would hope so. There is no post player on our current roster other than Ellis that has any business starting, much less being the first big off the bench, at Kansas. It would seem that this past season offered us that fairly definitive answer.
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Maybe it is time to think outside the box. Coach Self will be looking at some of the best young non-American player in the world at the University Games this summer and maybe he can find another Rudy Gobert type player that needs a year or two before moving to the NBA and get him to KU. In my opinion, if we can get one capable big, not Ellis-Traylor “big” but a 6’-11" 250lb player that can contribute immediately, the we will be in pretty decent shape. Mike Thorne is a possibility but he averaged 10-7 in the weak conference USA and he will not get nearly as much playing time in tough Big 12 so he would be maybe a 6-4 player at best…a band aid solution…but maybe better than nothing considering that there are scholarships available and he could always turn out to be another Tarik Black.
P.S. For those not familiar with Rudy Gobert, he is a 7’-2" French player that now plays for the Utah Jazz and has turned to be pretty darn good.
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I never think of KU as a JUCO destination, but until this recruiting ship gets righted, what about it? I don’t follow recruiting too much, but are there any JUCO guys? Have we had JUCO’s? Mario Little I think?? Roy wasn’t adverse to signing some.
The fact is 2 of the last 4 champs have done so with OAD’s. Before that, not so much. The landscape has changed dramatically and until the NCAA/NBA somehow agree to end this lunacy it is what is, so bring on all of the guys mentioned above. We need front court help to go with our experienced guards.
It’s all kind of disheartening.
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For what it’s worth, here’s the skinny on KU according to Jeff Eisenberg at Yahoo. He did one of those looks at next years top 20. He has us 6th and assumes Ellis stays.
- Kansas: Key losses: F Kelly Oubre, F Cliff Alexander (projected to leave) Key returners: G Frank Mason, G Wayne Selden, F Perry Ellis, G Devonte Graham, F Jamari Traylor, F Landen Lucas, G Brannen Greene G Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk Notable newcomers: F Carlton Bragg Outlook: Thanks to the anticipated return of point guards Frank Mason and Devonte Graham and wings Wayne Selden, Brannen Greene and Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Kansas appears pretty loaded on the perimeter. What will determine whether the Jayhawks extend their Big 12 title streak and make a deeper NCAA tournament run next March is how they address a series of questions about their frontcourt. Will all-conference forward Perry Ellis return for his senior season? Can heralded incoming freshman Carlton Bragg make an immediate impact? Will Kansas further bolster its frontcourt by landing spring targets Stephen Zimmerman, Cheick Diallo or Thon Maker? The return of Ellis would be critical because he was Kansas’ lone low-post scoring threat this past season. Undersized forward Jamari Traylor and reserves Landen Lucas and Hunter Mickelson are all back too, but each are better suited for backup roles. If Ellis returns and Kansas adds another big man to its class, the Jayhawks could be poised for a special season. If Ellis unexpectedly turns pro, there will be pressure on Bragg and any other incoming freshmen to develop a college-ready low-post game quickly.
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Am I fine with some of our current guys transferring - Yes.
Selden has been a disappointment as a player. Good, but inconsistent. He’s going to be a junior, so I don’t know how much we can anticipate that he will improve.
Greene is a great shooter, but his defense has been below average. He’s also going to be a junior, so I don’t know that he’s going to ever be anything more than average as a defender, and average will take some work for him.
We need to improve on the perimeter as well as inside. Standing pat on the perimeter is a surefire way to end up at home after the first weekend again. Maybe Selden improves. Maybe Greene improves. Maybe they both improve. But maybe they don’t. If that happens, I’d like to have some other options.
I have come to accept the fact that this years team, while good, wasn’t good enough to compete in the national conversation. The two guys most likely to make large steps forward (Oubre and Alexander) are gone. It’s doubtful Perry makes a dramatic leap forward as a senior. I think we know pretty safely what Perry will give us (probably 15/7 for what it’s worth). That’s a good start. Can Bragg give us 11 and 8? Frank should be able to nail down 10 and 5 assists. Devonte is good for 7 and 3 assists. The question then is who is our second scorer? Can Wayne consistently give us 12-14 points? Greene? Svi? If the answer is no, give me Jaylen Brown or Malik Newman, or both. If the answer is yes, then I am more than happy to roll with what we have. I’m just not sure that answer is yes.
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Here is my best shot at our 7’ issue. I think we miss on Zimmerman, and Maker. At this point HCBS scoops up Georgios Papagiannis and the OAD haters falls deeply in love with him for 4 years! Just kidding but I believe we land Papagiannis. HCBS is starting to panic and is looking for our 5 and the top two available are probably going else where. I was the first on this board to mention Svi last year and I think I am right on target this year.
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@Statmachine You may well be correct on this one, as well. He may turn out to be a contributor and you can’t teach size, but there is a reason he’s ranked in the 80-90 range and not recruited by any other top schools (unless you count Pitt and MD). Hard to see him coming in and supplanting Lucas out the box - which means we would again not have a low post game and not be able to run the H/L.
Maybe Self does pull a rabbit out of the hat and gets Diallo or Maker, but I’m not counting on it. I would guess Maker goes to UK and Diallo to SJU. Ingram to Duke. Zimmerman to UNLV. Rabb to Cal. I think we have zero shot at Newman - UK gets him, at least if Booker leaves. Outside shot at Brown, but better bet is UCLA.
What’s remarkable is that we have an obvious need for a quality big who can protect and finish at the rim - but these guy apparently aren’t beating down the door to come here. Maybe waiting to see the Cliff issue resolved. But, if we do whiff on the OADs, Self will be scrambling to back fill with a lower ranked guy like Papagiannis, a one year rental like Thorne, and some European lug he finds this summer. Not a great state of affairs for “Big Man U.”
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From the SBNation site:
According to Greek sports network sdna.gr, Arizona is one of many schools in the mix to land skilled 7-footer Georgios Papagiannis. UConn, Kentucky, St. John’s and Temple have also shown recent interest in the center.
Papagiannis signed a multi-year deal to play with Panathinaikos’ 18 to 22 year old team in Greece, but reportedly has the ability to come back to the United States if he so chooses. Papagiannis played at Westtown School in Pennsylvania before he decided to head back to Greece, and the opportunity to showcase himself for the NBA could be enough to convince him to come back.
247Sports.com listed Papagiannis as the 34th best player in the class of 2015, and the 7th best center in the class of 2015.
Papagiannis is considered to be a highly skilled big man that is a good passer, solid rebounder, and has the ability to score in the post as well stretch the floor with an impressive outside stroke for a player his size. His length also allows him to block and challenge shots at this rim.
It is unclear if Papagiannis plans to even enroll in college or stay in Greece at this point, but he’s definitely one to keep an eye on. Coming out of high school, Papagiannis received offers from Kansas, Penn State, Maryland, and Temple. He also took unofficial visits to Penn State and Maryland. Clearly Sean Miller will have plenty of competition to land the big man if Papagiannis decides to play college basketball.
Maybe he is just the player KU needs…and apparently KU has already offered.
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@JayHawkFanToo Great info. Wasn’t aware that KU had offered earlier - hadn’t seen that anywhere. Interesting about the rating - 247’s composite rating for him is 82 - 11th among centers.
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That is a great name … I read about him this past weekend when I was looking at recruiting sites, but had seen that the recruiting said he was 100%Maryland. Here’s the link. But it looks like that is a bit old.
I looked up the SB Nation Article and that is from January 27, 2015. Wonder what he’s doing now? That would seem too perfect. But I hadn’t even seen the name beyond the 247 article.
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May have another scholie available. I don’t have a subscription to KC.com so link is below.
Bleacher Report has Perry’s mom, Fonda, saying that Perry will be filing paperwork to see what his draft projection is, although most do not have him going first round.
Kelly Oubre Jr. was first. Then Cliff Alexander. Now Kansas’ Perry Ellis is considering his own NBA Draft decision. Ellis, a junior forward, has requested information on his draft prospects through the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee Application, his mother, Fonda, told The Star on Wednesday.
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/#storylink=cpy
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Wow, nice scoop, well, bad scoop. If Perry isn’t back, we might fall to the NCAA bubble.
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@wissoxfan83 Agreed. We will be a far inferior team if Perry leaves. I can’t imagine he leaves, though. He is not going to go in the 1st round. It is his life long dream to go to KU. His 3 years at KU have all ended early in the NCAA. I think the home state kid will be back for his senior year and that he will be an All American.
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On my want list… at the very top -
I want one player that is scrappy as all get up… eats nails for breakfast… full of life, positive energy… and shows it on the court every second he is out there!
We need one of those. I don’t really care at what position. But we need someone to spark this team. The only cheerleader we have moving forward is Devonte, but I’d like to see him have some help. A guy like this will help all our other guys stay upbeat and energized.
This is, by far, the most important need we have moving forward!
I kind of get the impression Diallo is a high-energy guy. Not sure what his attitude is like though.
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@RockChalkinTexas the Harrison twins declare for draft.
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“the Harrison twins declare for draft.”
Really makes me wonder what that does for the recruiting at UK. On one hand it opens up a few more spots to fill. On the other hand, it looks like Kentucky will be run by inexperienced guards. Seems that could risk signing more players because what if they go to Kentucky and end up in the NIT again?
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@drgnslayr You know, this whole OAD thing is really making me have a lot higher regard for football players. And the NFL.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Awesome. I was pretty tired of seeing those guys. Seems like they were at UK for more than just 2 seasons.
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Anybody see the report about the Mori being investigated for assault?
The Phoenix Suns’ Morris twins live by the mantra “Family over everything.”
Phoenix police say Marcus and Markieff Morris put those words into action when they and three others committed felony aggravated assault against a man the 25-year-old twins learned had sent “inappropriate” text messages to their mother.
Police have made no arrests and no charges have been filed. A spokesman for the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office confirmed Tuesday afternoon that prosecutors are continuing to review the case submitted by police.
For their part, the Morris twins have denied assaulting the reported victim, whom they also claim not to know, and their mother denies having been in contact with the man on the day of the incident, though authorities found evidence to the contrary, the police report shows.
The report shows the alleged victim, Erik Hood, told police he had been a mentor to the twins and supported them financially for a time when they were high school students in Philadelphia. Hood, a former professional basketball player who now works as a talent scout, also showed police photographs of himself with the Morris twins, the report said.
They later had a falling out.
MORE: Complete Phoenix Suns coverage
Hood reportedly told authorities that the text in question said he’d always be there for the Morris twins’ mother, Thomasine Morris, and that he believed a friend who saw it inferred the statement to mean their relationship had become sexual.
The alleged assault occurred in January at the Nina Mason Pulliam Recreation & Sports Complex near 15th Avenue and Colter Street, where Hood and a woman had been watching a basketball game, records show.
Hood told investigators he and the woman were leaving the facility when they were accosted by Julius Kane, 25, the man Hood believes told the Morris twins about the text messages, the report said.
During the confrontation, someone punched Hood in the back of the head, and Hood tried to flee.
Police said Kane and another person caught up with Hood outside the door near some picnic tables, where someone held Hood down while others kicked and punched him, records show. Hood says he was attacked by five people, in all.
Hood reportedly escaped a second time and was near the front of the complex when the group caught up to him and assaulted him again to the point of unconsciousness, according to the police report.
Witnesses told police they saw the five subjects flee in a Rolls-Royce Phantom, but none of them were able to identify any of the subjects. Investigators reportedly interviewed about two dozen additional witnesses who said they did not see anything or could not identify those involved.
Hood, who later identified Kane and the Morris twins as three of his five attackers, suffered a broken nose, a large knot on the back of his head and abrasions, records show. The woman who accompanied Hood to the game also verified Kane and the twins as being part of the altercation.
Markieff Morris denied being part of the group of attackers but admitted being at the game. He reportedly told police he and his brother were there because they sponsor one of the teams.
Markieff and Marcus Morris declined comment after their loss in Atlanta on Tuesday.
Suns President of Basketball Operations Lon Babby issued the following statement:
“The Phoenix Suns are aware of an investigation by the Phoenix Police Department of an alleged assault. We have no information beyond what has been alleged in the police report and therefore have no further comment on the matter at this time. Our organization will closely monitor developments as the legal process unfolds.”
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@Crimsonorblue22 Can either one be good without the other one?
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Cliff gets his own video:
Kansas Basketball @KUHoops “Thanks for being with me…and supporting me the whole way.” - Cliff Alexander
#alwaysajayhawk
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Good luck, Cliff! Your road may become a bit rocky, but give it your all and we all hope the best for you!
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@drgnslayr I don’t know any players that eat nails for breakfast but if they did you would have to figure it would be bad for their health??? I heard Jordan eats Wheaties and I figure if it works for him I would rather have a guy that eats 10 boxes of them in the morning!
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@RockChalkinTexas Thanks for posting that RCIT.
Cliff, Nice touch!
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I am not too worried about this. Most players, even those with remote NBA potential routinely file that request for information and most end up staying in school. If he is projected as a 1st round next year, then he is eligible for the NCAA sponsored insurance program and that might be the real reason for the request. I understand his family is very education oriented and if he can graduate in May, which is distinct possibility given that he is an outstanding student, then it would be more feasible.
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Interesting that the only highlight in the video is the one dunk that cost him a “T.” When you think about it, he really did not have many highlights…if there is a poster boy (no slight intended) for a second year in college, it would be Alexander…and Selby…
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Now that the Harrison’s are gone we are officially out of the Newman running and that is if we were ever really in it. He will be committing there any day now…
The Ellis situation scares me and not in a good way. No reason he shouldn’t assess where he is but he’s going to get nothing but a mid 2nd round grade. Awesome, nothing the internet couldn’t have told you already. You come back and expand your game once again with more perimeter approach which is your only hope of sticking to a team. If you leave the sky is officially falling, no way KU is a top 20 team next year. You can’t replace Perry with something better.
Whens the last time we had 3 year starters?? When’s the last time we returned our leading scorer the following year. Ellis & Selden can be those guys, and you have to go back to Sherron Collins for the last time our leading scorer returned.
Spring recruiting is never a dull moment now. Especially when the entire KU team thinks they are NBA players
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I saw that the Hoop Summit will be at the T Wolves game tonight. I bet they all want to talk to Wiggins which could be a really good thing. I wonder if HCBS has asked Wiggs to do some work for the KU team?
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I looked up several prospects to throw out there along with the flying Greek that Jayhawkfantoo mentioned:
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Yankuba Sima 6’11" 215 lbs. A few months of steaks on the grill could fix the weight problem. Being recruited by Turg and Daddy Pitino.
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Levi Cook 6’10" 305. Maybe we keep him away from the steaks. Virginia Tech is leading the recruiting on him.
Beyond that, anybody know any All-American Juco centers laying around?
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OK not calling anyone out by name, but how can you want some current players to transfer(Selden, Green), but when a guy leaves early(Selby, Alexander) people call them out for not being ready for the NBA or how it’s not right to transfer from KU.
It can’t be both ways. You can’t say that OAD’s we don’t get to know or they didn’t develop enough, then turn around when a guy has a sub par year and say it’s time to go.
To me that’s being a fair weathered fan. Only like the guys that excel every game, but once they let you down or don’t play great it’s time to go. But if they are good enough to get a shot at the league, they get bagged on for making KU a pit stop.
KU has who they have, they will play who they have. We need to, as fan, support those guys and be ready to cheer them on this summer and next season. Cause if not, then it only takes a few bad fans to sour the perception of a great fan base in the eyes of recruits, other teams fans and so on.
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@Statmachine if wigs plays like he has been playing, he won’t have to say much.
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“I don’t know any players that eat nails for breakfast but if they did you would have to figure it would be bad for their health??? I heard Jordan eats Wheaties and I figure if it works for him I would rather have a guy that eats 10 boxes of them in the morning!”
You ever seen what is in Wheaties? Definitely not enough IRON!
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“Beyond that, anybody know any All-American Juco centers laying around?”
Might we take a look down in Wichita and Sunshine Christian Academy? Seems like they pump out several blue chippers that are off most radar screens…
Of course we are familiar with Buddy Hield… but I know last year they had a couple of guys 6’10" or taller, one I think signed with Arizona. One of their bigs a year or two ago went to Miami and is a stud from Africa. They still may have a Croatian or Serbian big left.
“Spring recruiting is never a dull moment now. Especially when the entire KU team thinks they are NBA players”
I second that! Tyler Self moved up to the second round in one draft prediction!
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This is a bit unsettling.
Great…Diallo is rooming with Skal Labissiere, a UK commit, at the Nike Hoops Summit in Oregon. How did that happen? Hmm…I wonder if WWW has anything to do with picking rooms for players? He’s been awfully quiet lately.
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@truehawk93 let’s hope he’s obnoxious!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Gawd, can these players ever get away from the influence of anything UK? Geez
Also, don’t look now but Calipari just lost Dakari Johnson too. He’s super desperate. He’s in the same boat Self was in the year both twins went pro. Remember that?
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@truehawk93 what did cal say? Something like, we’re Kentucky, we can do what we want!
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Great line from Cal on people who say mass exodus of players to the NBA will hurt the team. “This is Kentucky. We do whatever we want."
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@Crimsonorblue22 Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t they pretty much lost all their bigs? Guess what? They need bigs. He is dying for both Diallo and Maker.
Cauley-Stein, gone
Towns, gone
Lyles, gone
Johnson, gone
I think Calipari may be losing his sex appeal with recruits. This next season reminds me of the Nerlens Noel class and team.
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@truehawk93 I hope so!!!
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@Crimsonorblue22 One good thing…UK already disappointed him by losing the NC, hehe
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@Crimsonorblue22 Maybe cheat too?
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@truehawk93 I’d say his lips are to loose!
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@Statmachine wigs had 29 pts tonight!
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Looking to the “next” OAD to be the savior? Was the overall #1 NBA pick, #1 incoming recruit Wiggins the savior his OAD year? Was Jabari Parker a savior for Duke? Mention Tyus Jones and Okafor, but realize they had each other, and came with chemistry with each other when they both came down from MN. That is both special and ultra-rare.
I really don’t like the transfer speculation, as that attacks the very thing that Self’s system has been yearning for x 2yrs now: experience.
Also a bit gloomy on the projection of “not even top 20” if Ellis leaves. He was a Mickey D. Not every Mickey D is the same. Ellis played little his frosh season. Cliff produced more as a frosh than frosh Ellis did. Now we add 6’9 McD Bragg. Who knows what he adds. Let’s hope his brain and personality are wired just a wee bit more aggressive than Perry’s–> and he may add closer to Cliff’s statline, or actually exceed it…? (again, who knows)
Finally, people seem to forget the scoring that Mason gives. He isn’t a 10ppg scorer, but more like a 15ppg scorer. He doesn’t stop. He doesn’t quit. Count on Frank to be there. He was there all season for us, but he needs help.
Devonte Graham is another unsung hero. Becoming dangerous on both ends of the court. Man, this is rare: a FROSH who could run Self’s system fairly effectively. When have we ever seen that. Neither Chalmers, nor RussRob could do it as frosh. Sherron did a bit, and Mason did a bit as frosh. Graham is on another level. Having a good/great PG is a force-multiplier. RussRob became exactly that by his Jr season. Tyshawn improved, but was never elite at it statistically. Graham and Mason. What a luxury to have 2 guys that can do it.
Wings? Usually 2 out of 3 show improvement, if you consider Self’s player development, and to be honest, any or all 3 of these kids (Svi, Selden, Greene) could blossom this year.
Our issue is in the post, but it isn’t for lack of bodies. It could be simply the right puzzle-piece fit. I little bit of individual improvements + whatever impact the new bigs add. We could get 1 notch better in our post game, or we could get 4 notches better, depending on who exactly we recruit, and how much the returnees improve.
The rock of this team is Frank, Devonte, Ellis. We need more out of Selden, Greene, Svi, Lucas, Traylor, Hunter, Bragg. That’s 10 guys. What if we get Thorne +/- another big? Or 2 bigs + Thorne? Now that’s 12-13 guys?
Agree with Selden being an enigma. If he plays like DWade, uh, I mean like the guy who killed FL single-handedly, then it takes a lot of pressure off the bigs. This is his time. Many Self McDAA’s produce solid Jr seasons. I’m not throwing in the towel on Big Wayne!
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With all those players leaving UK will have plenty of “salary cap” available to hire…I mean get some of the better unsigned players left
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Going at on a limb here, but this is what I’m seeing. My feeling is Coach Cal and the Wildcats may not get the big recruiting class they’re expecting. Coach Cal showed he can’t coach a OAD team to a championship. The UK players sticking up for him said it all. Words like you can’t blame it on coaching was Nike saying protect our investment. Yet in the end it was all a coached speech.
They maybe OAD’s but they do want to win a championship. Look for Duke to grab some players and then look for KU to grab some players. As KU is playing in this professional tournament. ESPN is already going to air all those games. Behind closed doors I would expect that ESPN and Adidas to put some pressure on these kids to go to KU. I believe KU has 3 or 4 schollies to give. Look for them to be filled with OAD’s.
Just my two cents.
