Marshall to the Big 12?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Every college graduates this May.
Oh - you mean Baker the dude.
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@drgnslayr
(close as I could find to a ewe) 2 - brah!!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Well, if he says heās happy and content at WSU, that settles it. Once a coach says he loves a place, heās there for life.
How did Olā Roy do last night ???
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There is strong rumor from a recruiting insider that if Marshall were to leave WSU, that Ron Baker has strong consideration of playing his last year with Kansas (if not pro (which is still more likely )). Thought this was interesting tho.
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Iāll toss this out here ā¦ Iāve seen some of the Gregg Marshall bashing this week. I donāt get it. I see @Crimsonorblue22 calling him a āslime ballā and āMarsha.ā While I do appreciate the humor in the āMarshaā stuff ā¦ I really do ā¦ Marshall has produced more at WSU the last three seasons than Self has here. And the guy is most definitely not a slime ball.
What has Marshall done wrong? Called us chickens? Good for him. We are chickens for not playing WSU.
To numbers, has Self ever gone undefeated in a regular season (for those that value the regular season so much)? And Marshall has done more with far less ā and that is important to remember, really the most important point. He kicked our ass with a bunch of unranked guys (or low ranked). He just didnāt beat us, he embarrassed us.
All of those who want to say we did what we did against a tougher schedule ā that argument was destroyed in 40 minutes in Omaha. WSU was just better. Iām guessing folks might not mock the MVC quite as much now, particularly since Self coached teams have been knocked out prematurely by three of them ā UNI, WSU, and Bradley.
The Marshall bashing to me is embarrassing also. There is the tendency to nit pick and trash folks that get the upper hand on you. We see it all the time with Calipari. Calipari is doing something, quite frankly, that our coach canāt. And whatās worse, our coach has taken the bait and has now diluted his own program with the OAD stench. All Calipari does is win. But heās a devil for winning. I donāt see that any of his players had to sit out this season due to an NCAA inquiry.
Back to Marshall ā If all we have to fall back on is the history of our program, thatās nice, but that doesnāt get you a national title in 2015.
Bill Self couldnāt figure out how to beat an undersized WSU team. If he could have, he would have faced another very undersized team in ND. And we would be playing UK today to really achieve something this season. Instead, KU fans are getting up this morning, finding a conference title t-shirt, and watching other programs do what we should be doing.
@Family-Hawk On your rumor, Ron Baker would be absolutely nuts to consider coming to Kansas. Goodness. He was in a system where he could highlight his qualities. That just isnāt happening here. I seriously doubt that Baker was ever benched for shot selection. I watched 6 WSU games this season. Never once saw it. If Baker is graduating and can go where he wants, he should follow Marshall.
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Thanks for stating your honest opinionā¦ in what can now be considered āanti-Marshallā territory.
Iāve respected Marshall through his efforts at WSU. I like good basketball, and I seriously doubt he does anything illegal or unethical when he turned pumpkins into princes.
What turned my stomach about Marshall was how he handled the Alabama rumors. I do believe that was felt by his troops. There is a sort of typical response a coach makes when put in that situation and Marshall didnāt make it. He should have said this isnāt the time for that and he is more than happy at WSU and he loves his playersā¦ yada yada yada. But instead, his response was he would consider it. I do believe this is the reason WSU lost to ND. The Shocks have another gear they kick into, and they didnāt. I have to admit, not sure I would kick into 110% mode if I played for him and he came out with a horrible reaction like he had. I suddenly felt like a sucker for believing in the guy. At that point, he lost all my respect.
The book is still out on Calipari. It may takes years, but it is very possible that something will be exposed. How he is able to sign 9 McDs AAs and have them all happy-like while sitting half the game on the bench and no one shows an ounce of alpha-dog goes way way way beyond logic. If it is just Calipariās salesmanship that is able to do that, it still doesnāt make it right. Those kids should all be spread out playing for other teams and playing a major role right now in March. I look at a kid like Marcus Lee and I see nothing but a waste of talent. He could have had a couple of years of full-time play and development and converted into some level of alpha-dog had he done the right thing and gone somewhere else. Calipari is exploiting these kids to the max. And so they all get a gold ring out of itā¦ big deal. If they donāt win it all, they will all be the biggest laughing stocks ever to set foot on a college basketball court. That is their āchipāā¦ trying to prevent the entire nation from laughing at them!
What Calipari has done is create hatred by the entire college basketball nation outside of Kentucky. If they run through the tournament and win it all, and trash another great team in the finalsā¦ was that entertaining basketball to watch? Really? Then lets put these Kentucky clowns up against an NBA all-star team and watch them get pummeled by 50. Wowā¦ how exciting!
Even if Cal is not doing anything illegalā¦ is it ethical to have such an approach to basketball? He has way beyond depth. And in order to get that depth he had to convince some 5-star talent that playing half a game would be the best thing for their careers. Most of the clowns on that team I will never respect. They are cowards for teaming up like that and doing that to college basketball. Gutless wimps. Cowards without an ounce of man in them to venture out and have to really fight for a championship. Total cowards.
Iām saying all of thisā¦ but Iām not making excuses for Selfās performance. In realityā¦ I believe the only team he has had that really overachieved was 2012. Not a single McDs AA and we made it to runner up. I donāt want to take anything away from our 2008 team, but seriouslyā¦ they should have won! We were the stacked team in that tournament, and it still took a miraculous comeback to win it all. That was awesome, and I love those guysā¦ but I think I put the achievement of TRobās boys ahead of them. That was truly over-achievement.
So Self has been to the tourney how many times now? And even if you want to say 2008 was an over-achieving teamā¦ that is only 2 teams he has had that has overachieved in March. Not a great record. And this isnāt just because us fans expect too much.
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@drgnslayr said:
Most of the clowns on that team I will never respect. They are cowards for teaming up like that and doing that to college basketball. Gutless wimps. Cowards without an ounce of man in them to venture out and have to really fight for a championship. Total cowards.
You have never been accused of holding back your opinion!
Donāt get me wrong, Iām not a Gregg Marshall or John Calipari worshiper at all. Iām usually not like this, but I admit that it will be a great moment if UK loses without the national title. Iām kind of thinking it would be best in the NC title game ā¦ have it taken away in the last moment. Thatās all this tourney is about now.
I was watching sportscenter this morning. They had a graphic with the UK NBA guys ā¦ Cousins, Davis, Noel, Wall, and Prince ā all having huge games last night.
Why should Kansas chase the UK blueprint, when that recruiting standard is unattainable? Isnāt a different approach more warranted? And look, this UK team is beatable. And a Bill Self type team is the exact type of team to beat them ā¦ if he had the pieces for his system.
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@HighEliteMajor Speaking of Selfās āpieces for his system,ā I notice that he is looking at a tall graduating player who retains a year of transfer eligibility. Unless this Alexander Eligibility Issue is quickly and finally resolved, I look to see KU head into another season w/o optimum pieces in the fold.
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@nuleafjhawk said:
@Kip_McSmithers Going to Texas would give him the opportunity to lose to KU every year.
Yes this would give him the opportunity but Marshall has yet to lose to Kansas. UK on the other hand has bounced him.
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Iām every bit as frustrated as you are in our March performanceā¦ and Iām lost on if we are going in the right direction. It shouldnāt be that way.
I have to admit Iām an Izzo fan. At least the fans at MSU know the direction of their team. Izzo would probably like to get more 5-star players but he hasnāt sold his soul out to do it. Iām mixed on Selfā¦ if he has sold out for the OAD. I donāt know what kind of pressure he is under. We all can see the fan base is unhappy about Marchā¦ but one can only wonder what pressures he faces behind closed doors.
I really hope we arenāt following the Kentucky blueprint, but all indications point that way. Calipari is now reaching his goal of āperfectionā and the ultimate prize for taking his strategy of bringing in the best players possible at 9 or more positions. Iām sure heād like to recruit 12 McDs AAs for the ultimate āperfection.ā None of that is what college basketball is about. Recruiting is important, but like all things in lifeā¦ too much of a good thing turns something into bad.
On recordā¦ Calipari can complete āperfectionā and go down in the records as matching the '75-'76 Indiana Hoosiers season of undefeated and a NC. But there is no comparison to those teams. Knight had 3 AAsā¦ not anything near the team of 9 McDs AAs that Calipari has. Most likely, Cals boys would put the stomp on that Hoosiers team. And they would do it with their marginal effort. But when I define āperfectionā Calipari and this Kentucky team wonāt be anywhere on that pageā¦ this Hoosiers team will be at the top! They had some talent, but it was their team effort and execution that made them special. 7 of the guys went on to the NBA, a few having long careers. May and Buckner received a few extra accolades in the NBA but Calās boys really shine at the next level and I doubt it will be much comparison later.
The real threat with Cal isnāt this team. The real threat is that this team is merely the blueprint for his future teams. Does anyone really think this is it for Kentucky? Are people thinking all 9 of those McDs AAs are entering the draft? Cal will lose maybe 3 or 4ā¦ maybe 5. All of those will be replaced with similar talent and he may even go beyond 9 next year.
The day Kansas signs 9 McDs AAs is the day I turn off Kansas basketball from my life.
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@REHawk If I were HCBS, thankfully Iām not cause I couldnāt handle all the bashing from this site, the Alexander issue would already be resolved with a hand shake and best wishes in the league. Case closed.
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@brooksmd I wonder if that hasnāt already happenedā¦hence the push for Diallo.
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@brooksmd I hope Cliff has been told goodbye as well. But Iād just as soon have an OADāwith the outside possibility that he stays for at least one additional yearāas have a grad transfer that is for sure gone after one season.
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@Wigs2 Trading one year of a OAD for one year of a grad student might be a good deal since the OAD probably has somewhat more skills. The downside is that the OAD will probably take 1/3 - 1/2 of the season to learn what it takes to play D1 ball. Let alone the skills, generally defensive, that go along with it. An additional advantage of the grad is that you have tape (shows how old I am) of him playing for 3 years against D1 competition. For the OAD you generally have tape of dunk after dunk against far inferior competition.
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@HighEliteMajor perfect dual point: If we had the piecesā¦
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@sfbahawk The āgradā transfer player may still take 1/2 season to be able to assimilate w/team. Tarik Black perfect example, and he was 100% motivated, intelligent young man. My worry is a grad transfer is not as chemistry-enhancing as Black. We got lucky with him.
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Barnes canned. Iāll be Shocked if Marshall is not their new head coach.
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@DanR I wager that the Texas job will be filled by Tuesday night, probably sooner. Gregg Marshall has got to be at or near the top of those being considered. Longhorns should become a power house with a guy like that.
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@HighEliteMajor Agree totally. I often just shake my head at the āother-bashingā on this site. Especially āothersā so close to homeāMarshall, Weber, Barnes, etc. The gloating over a rivalās lossesāI wonāt go so far as to say embarrassed, but I certainly find it distasteful, and I know how you feel. Just seems small-minded to me. Iād hate to be in a foxhole with some of these guys and find out we went to different high schools.
All this talk about āWait til he gets in a big conference, then weāll see the emperor has no clothes, blah blah blah.ā Why not just give the guy his dueāheās done a great job with a lot less talent than KU.
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@KUinLA In a league a lot less talented and competitive than the Big 12. Gotta be said.
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āIād hate to be in a foxhole with some of these guys and find out we went to different high schools.ā
Not sure where that one came from but enjoyed it!
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The reason he can get 9 Alpha Dogās to do whatever he wants is because Cal is the Alpha Dog above them all. His influence in the public, in the NBA, is what separates him from almost any College Coach. You want to believe Marcus Lee doesnāt want to be apart of a 40-0 season instead of playing at another school where heās probably already in the off-season. And his exposure playing for UK is higher than anywhere in the country. Heās probably on NBA radarās for that alone, not including his limited actual game.
Why do you think so many Top recruits havenāt signed with teams? Because they all want to go to UK and want to know how the rosters shake out. Thatās how much Cal has impacted the game, heās single handily changed recruiting. Whatever people want to say about him, he has a system, heās made it work more times than not. The one year he didnāt he failed miserably, the others heās lifted the UK brand above all in the game.
Coach K is the same. He can bring in 3-4 All-Americanās and blend them into the team and get them to play bigger than their age. Winslow, Jones, Okafor donāt play or act like freshman. Heās done this year after year after year. Heās used to it, he has a system in place for players to shine. He will continue to do what heās doing.
Self. well this style of All-Americanās isnāt new to him but he doesnāt change either to blend them in. They either adapt to his ways or not, call it stubborness, call it being the Alpha Dog whatever it is Self doesnāt budge for 1, or 2, players. He does things his way, heās done more with players that develop over a career than showcasing a 1 year talent. Because KU is an elite program heās adapted maybe his own preference to keep churning kids into the NBA regardless how many years it takes them. You could say that Self is still learning how to mesh OADās with his typical 4 year players. Maybe heās not that great at, maybe his system doesnāt want an individual to shine.
We are simply spoiled, itās not enough to just make the tourney or have great regular seasons anymore. We need more, we need deep tourney runs, we need the KU name in the spotlight for validation. What will Self do to get us back there?
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Marshall is a great mid level coach. Just like Greg McDermot of Creighton aNs at Northern Iowa.
But he couldnāt recruit top tier players to Iowa st. He had a very nice senior led team at creighton for its first year I. The Big East, but, itās not looking good for his recruiting now to bring in top tier players to stay competitive in te Big East.
Marshall might have that same problem. Go out and get kids who might ride te pine at a major school or walk ins and get them to buy in to the program and the little brother role and you win.
What will he be able to do at Texas? He has no ties to top tier players, programs and well even though we all know Texas is fine being average,Marshalls average players he gets at WSU wonāt make the cut at Texas and the Big 12 not day in and day out year after year.
Sure get them up to play the big brother once a year is easy. Get them up to play the bully twice a year is t that hard, but to do it day after day week after week??
I canāt see him making it at a major program.
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@KUinLA The reason for the bashing? A part of it might be that folks are threatened by his success. Threatened by what they really know. Threatened by what we saw this season. And perhaps a bit worried. This team can only win one way ā¦ itās either the only way Self will let it win, or the only way Self can win. Either way, if we donāt have the right personnel for his system, we now know weāre out of luck offensively ā¦ regardless of how good the talent is overall. He wonāt adjust to fit his talent.
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@JRyman Gee, while I recognize that there appear to be a lot of Marshall haters out, is there any doubt he is really good coach? What he has done, in a relatively short time, at WSU is remarkable. They have 150 wins over the past 5 years - second to UK. Sure, he wouldnāt have had nearly that many in any of the power 5 conferences, but WSU has consistently beaten good team out of conference and in the tournament - and he has done it without elite talent.
No, he hasnāt proven himself as a recruiter, but if he ends up at Texas, he will undoubtedly get access to better talent than he has been able to attract to Wichita. IMO, even if he doesnāt recruit the top tier, if he is able to get consistent good talent to UT, I think they will be a formidable opponent year in and out. Does anyone out there really believe that he wouldnāt deliver more than Barnes has over the past 7 years?
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@DCHawker Exactly ā¦ Marshall has proven he can take inferior talent and beat top talent already. Has Self ever had to play a season here with roster that looks like WSU?
Or heck, try Notre Dame ā they played seven players. One guy 6ā10, then three 6ā5" guys, one 6ā1" guy, and a 6ā5" and 6ā8" off the bench. All with players ranked #38, #86, #97, #105, #108, #128, and #145. They should have beaten UK. We should have just stayed home vs. UK.
You donāt want to see the non-rankings of the WSU players. Heck, we complain about Traylor and Lucas, but those are the kind of guys that other programs have to win with.
Bill Selfās consistency is amazing ā the consistency at getting amazing talent. I wonder how Self would do against Marshall, Brey, or many other coaches right now if he had the exact same talent?
Realistically, I think heād do fine. I think his system raises the floor. I just donāt think that we should poo-poo other coaches that succeed.
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@DCHawker and @highelitemajor Iām not a Marshall hater. What Iām saying is when youlook at recent track records or a coach in a similar situation such as McDermott itās hard not to point out the similarities.
Creighton was the king of the MVC for years, even beating WSU. Iām not saying either are bad coaches or inferior. But recruiting could be a tough pull. Yes Texas has a cash flow that never stops along with facilities that are top notch. Barnes had the pick of the litter, Aldridge and Dirant for starters, he couldnāt cosch his way out of a wet apart bag though and it showed.
If Marshall ends up at Texas, he will or should be able to recruit. The question then becomes can he get top players to work hard for him? Not saying he canāt. Just asking if he can.
I think other Big12 schools are trying to up their basketball programs to keep up with KU and Self. Look at the hires at OU, TCU and Tech recently. It might not be to long before OKst and Baylor make changes from recruiters of talent to cosches or players.
Iowa St. could be in need of a top cosch as well if Fred heads to the NBA this summer. Might be coaching Mr Wiggins.
Sorry I went off the rails during this post, but my mind just went wild and I let it out.
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@HighEliteMajor I agree we shouldnāt be bashing other coaches that are over achieving. But I also think itās unfair to think that Self couldnāt have done that with inferior talent at a smaller school. He did overachieve at other schools with lower ranked talent. For some reason it seems like at Kansas we are just unable to develop that chip on the shoulder that Self teams of earlier years had. Maybe they are just too afraid to lose and Self hasnāt been able to properly motivate them. It will be interesting to see what Marshall would do when he has the top talent and is expected to win every year.
And P.S ND deserved to win. They got robbed. Was so hoping that desperation three would have gone in.
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@nuleafjhawk Well, he kicked our talented and competitive butts.
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@HighEliteMajor I try not to bash the other coaches. But, I think Marshall did bring some of it on with his chickenhawks comment. Bashing in response to that, is, my view, warranted to a point. Also, some people just see it as funā¦their right I guessā¦ Now, come on, Weber has left himself wide open with some of the things he has said and doneā¦
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@HighEliteMajor Those are all good point, but I have been thinkingā¦Is the talent level gap all that great? Certainly, WSUs experience level is part of the equation. I think our talent level is greaterā¦but maybe not as much as we might think. During WSUs little run in the last 3 years they have had Early, who is an NBA talent. Will Baker and VanVleet play in the league? Probably. Of course, if their talent level is closer to ours than people think that also is a complement to Marshallā¦if he identified and developed talent that others didnāt identify.
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@FarSideHawk @JRyman Ah, and those are really good points. What will he do with better talent, different dynamics, bigger expectations, more pressure? Waht will he do on a bigger stage? Has he ever had to deal with a player that knows, before he sets foot on campus, that he will eventually make more money than his coach does? You can slay the giants in one game settings here and there (though Marshallās #1 seed in 2014 got bounced early), but how do you do day in, day out. Thus the good McDermott example. Self has proven that he can win at every level. ORU, Tulsa, Illinois, Kansas. You mentioned the smaller schools ā Selfās Elite Eight with Tulsa.
@Hawk8086 Youāre hitting on the point of raw talent and developed talent. The Cliff Alexander vs. Thomas Robinson. The Kelly Oubre vs. Travis Releford. The Andrew Wiggins vs. Andrew White. The Stephen Zimmerman vs. Tyler Davis. Yes, Iāll take make chances with developed talent.
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Marshall for all intents and purposes has recruited pretty well since he got there. VanVleet top 100 guy. Same class got Cleanthony Early who turned into a 1st round pick. Same class got Andrewās brother which had influence in KU ever gettting Andrew. The year before that he pulled in Cotton and Hall, those guys turned into good players. This year he pulled maybe his best recruit yet in Markis McDuffie top 100 kid who can flat our shoot the ball at 6ā8. Marshall raised the bar in the MVC, you see how good Northern Iowa was all year.
I think if he does land at Texas he will do fine, maybe even do better which from most peopleās opinions wonāt be that hard to do. Fertile recruiting area, he inherits a team he can win with from day 1 if the pieces stay and if he can get the 2 top 50 kids to still go there. Whatās the worst that can happen? That he turns Texas into the perennial contender against KU that we expect every year. Heās got tourney success, he can help the Big 12 get out of this rut of tournament success in the last few years. I think that his track record sets him up for success if he jumps. The biggest advantage is whoever gets the gig doesnāt have to start from scratch at all. He could help develop Isiah Taylor further just like he helped VanVleetā¦
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Pitino, Calipari, Izzo, and Coach K in the Elite 8. Coach Self needs to establish himself a regular to make a deep run in the tournament. This year the bracket didnāt help. I would have rather drawn UCLAās position, they had an easier run to the Sweet 16 than we did. That being said what can be done to improve our team when the lights become the brightest? Is it recruiting? Is it the offense we run? Is it the intensity we play with or donāt play with in the tournament? What does Coach Self need to do to get the Jayhawks consistently in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8?
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āYou want to believe Marcus Lee doesnāt want to be apart of a 40-0 season instead of playing at another school where heās probably already in the off-season. And his exposure playing for UK is higher than anywhere in the country. Heās probably on NBA radarās for that alone, not including his limited actual game.ā
I think the question isā¦ does he develop enough just practicing with a bunch of studs and then getting only a few minutes in games compared to being an integral part of a team where he is counted on for production?
College is where players developā¦ not the d league. His chance at development is passing him up.
How many alpha dogs are on that team? Towns?
Here is the box score:
Name POS MIN FG 3P FT OREB REB AST ST BLK TO PF PTS
Dakari Johnson C 8 0-0 0-0 0-2 0 2 0 0 3 0 2 0
K.A. Towns F 25 10-13 0-0 5-6 1 5 4 2 1 3 4 25
Trey Lyles F 25 4-10 0-0 1-2 3 5 0 1 2 5 2 9
W. Cauley-Stein F 33 3-5 0-0 0-0 2 4 0 0 2 0 1 6
Marcus Lee F 2 1-1 0-0 0-0 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 2
Aaron Harrison G 27 2-7 1-3 1-2 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 6
Devin Booker G 27 4-6 2-3 0-0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 10
And. Harrison G 29 0-2 0-1 7-8 1 3 2 1 0 2 2 7
Tyler Ulis G 24 1-3 1-1 0-0 0 1 2 0 0 0 1 3
How many McDs AAs did basically nothing in that game? Marcus Lee, 2 pts in 2 minutes of game action? Do you think that helped his draft position? Do you think he is seasoning for the NBA? I have seen no improvement in his game this yearā¦ but thenā¦ he stopped getting his half-minutes down the stretch.
I believe most of these guys are coming back, whether they win it or not, because they have no draft position. Towns is goneā¦ maybe Lyles and Cauley-Stein. Dakari Johnson? Booker is a guy who most likely would be gone this yearā¦ but he doesnāt have enough of a stat sheet to go too high in the draft. And what about Ulis? The Harrison brothers? I think the Harrison brothers and Cauley-Stein were smart to come back and they went through some pretty major development in the off season. They may not be at the top of the draft, but they are definitely ticking upward.
There are only so many quality minutes to be played in a game by one team. There are only so many players that can really be counted on for production. The dilution of talent at Kentucky has made it messy and there is only pressure to produce on a few players. The rest just coast and by coasting they are giving up their precious development and opportunity for the bright lights. Yesā¦ every NBA scout watches their gamesā¦ but they donāt know how to judge a player that gets only 2 minutes of action. If a guy can only get 2 minutes of action on the D1 level, how much action will he get in the NBA? Rightā¦ none!
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I think Marshall could be competitive at Texas relatively quickly. He has all the resources he could ever need. Heās a good coach. The only thing that may stop him is ego. He wants to be the number one coach on campus, and at Texas (or Bama) that will never be the case. But thatās his dilemma. I think he would make Texas very good very quickly, unless his ego kept him from recruiting the top players.
As for Calipari, I think he convinces guys that his practices are better prep for the NBA than most college games. Towns gains more from facing Dakari Johnson in practice than he did last night torching Notre Dameās undersized front line. That matters to NBA scouts because they know guys coming out of Kentucky know how to bring it in practice because they go against legitimate talent every day.
Calipari deserves credit for getting a team full of potential stars to play the right way. They share the ball. They defend. They donāt care who gets credit. They play for each other. They play with poise. Seriously, if it didnāt say Kentucky on the jerseys, I think most people on this site would enjoy this team for being a really good team that plays great team basketball on both ends.
Watching that game last night, I was waiting on UK to panic down the stretch. They never did. I kind of hope they do go undefeated at this point. This is a great team - the kind of team you will tell people about 30 years from now. Thatās why I rooted against WSU going undefeated last year. That WSU team wasnāt the kind of team you remember 30 years from now. They werenāt great. People years from now would have looked at them and said they werenāt as good as probably any of the last 10 or 12 NCAA champions. This Kentucky team is historically great enough to stand up over time.
I canāt hate on the Cats at this point. I like good basketball and they play good basketball.
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I put a question mark on Marshall succeeding at Texas because he wonāt have his underdog chip to play. Butā¦ if I had to guess, Iād say he would be a vast improvement over Barnes.
He might also have some cultural issues in Texas. Barnes is part of the āgood olā boyā network, and I would never underestimate the value of that. Marshall seems a bit elusive and can come across a bit elitist in his attitude. Maybe he isnāt that way, but perceptions are what counts. Iām not sure that attitude will fly at Texas.
What counts in Texas is being able to rub elbows with donors. Marshall does a great job coaching playersā¦ but can he rub elbows successfully with some of the cattlemen and oilmen down south? Iām not sure about thatā¦
Dem sum purdy lade back boyz in Austin!
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@drgnslayr If the Koch brothers are his heroes as someone stated here, he will fit in perfectly in Texas.
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@HighEliteMajor āIāll take my chances with developed talent.ā HEM, how about 3rd year player Brannen Greene? Knowing Bill Selfās system as we do, at this stage of his KU coaching tenure, will/should Bill take his chances with Greene, say an optimistic 20 minutes per game in 2015-16?
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I guess we agree to disagree on a few things. You took the box-score from 1 game. 1 game doesnāt prove anything about Alpha Dogās theyāve all had their moments, Towns scored 1 point in the game before yesterday.
Towns is top 3 pick maybe even the top pick when itās all said and done. Stein is top 10 can defensively alter any game. Lylesās & Booker have done well enough to warrant themselves in the mid first round. Iād be really surprised if either came back. Not a lot of shooters in this draft class so Booker will be in demand. Johnson I believe will come back, itās a real riches when you have a top 15 7 footer coming off the bench.
Not sure what you see in Lee, heās a shot-blocking, put-back dunk, lob player. Nothing else about his game says heād be the feature player in any offense. I do think he benefits from playing against NBA players everyday in practice. He comes back for a Jr. season and heās got a chance to get minutes and production on a bigger than 2 minute spree. All these players have benefited from playing with each other.
Not sure what the Harrison twins do but we know it will be a group decision. Did they gain any fans from scouts this year that they didnāt get last year probably not. Neither is projected or hyped very high. They can come back again and start. Ulis is good enough to start for any team but his size will always limit his NBA potential. Likely he comes back to get stronger and develop his game further.
As far as scouts judging their players based on limited minutes that can work in either fashion. The more minutes you play the potential more video is available, the more your weaknesses are dissected. The Harrison Twins are perfect examples of that, they were hyped out of High School but their freshman years were inconsistent. They had to come back because they wouldāt have been drafted otherwise. Cliff Alexander is another where hype beat out production. Great High-School player, but developed slow so his stock tumbled. Then you add in his NCAA issue and you have a sinking ship.
Because a player like Lee has limited minutes he could conceivably go pro and get some GM that is intrigued by his āpotentialā and grab him. Conventional wisdom would say why would a GM gamble on a player like him, but in the same token that word āpotentialā seems to mean more than production.
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@justanotherfan I definitely do not like UK or Calipari, but I have to agree. They played smart, unselfish basketball, esp. down the stretch. They did not miss a shot - did not miss a FT. Tightened up D when they needed. No one forced shots. As for Calipari, give him credit as he did what we often want HCBS to do - took advantage of a mismatch. ND had no one who could stop Towns and they got him the ball in the right position every damn time down the court - and he put it in the hole every damn time.
Not generally a ND fan either, but was so hoping they would pull out the win. Also have to admire they way they pass, cut and share the ball - just as they did against WSU. Fun to watchā¦
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@BeddieKU23 Agree with most of what you wrote. However I canāt picture Stein as a top 10. He has no offensive game inside or out. UK didnāt need that from him with Towns. I can see him as a late first or second round as a defensive backup. But you never know what some NBA gm will do. Possibly someone thinks he will be another uni-brow.
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Stein is a higher pick than you think. Think of him as a Joakim Noah type PlAyer except more athletic. Being able to guard 5 positons at 7 feet is rare and thatās a commodity that nba teams want. His offense has definetly improved and something a team will continue to work with him on. ESPN has him top 10 doubt they are off on that projection stein won them a lot of games
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Iām more than happy to call Cal a slime ball, and Iāve always been a big believer where there is smoke there is a fire. Like my friend said to me this early this year. Why are all these OADās going to UK when they could go to another college and be the man instead of being a cog in the UK machine? Money.
However whether Coach Cal cheats at recruiting or not, the fact of the matter the Dude does quite well in the tournament. Iām not sure the guy has ever lost in the first weekend. (Iād have to check on that one).
Think about it like this. The experts said you could never win with that much young talent. Heās done it and is about to do it again. The experts say an undefeated team will never happen again too much competition. Well heās on the cusp of doing that very thing, and you know what heās getting even better. Iāve made claims this guy canāt coach, but Iām starting to think Iām wrong. I just hope the guy goes to the NBA, or heās going to rule over College Basketball.
Also just because your the most hated team in the country doesnāt mean your doing things wrong. Itās means your winning. Look at the Yankees, hell even look at KU. We have our fair share of haters.
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@DoubleDD I believe he lost in the first round of the NIT.
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@sfbahawk Agree with Beddieā¦Cauley - Stein will be a high pick. Athletic big man that can play defenseā¦the NBA values those guysā¦ and they āexpertsā have him targeted as a lottery pick.
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Nice. LOL Nice. However does one bad year say scarp it? After all Kentucky is about to play in their third Championship in the last five years. Well unless the Badgers can do some damage man Iām hoping.
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The coaching carousel has begun -
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āNot sure what you see in Lee, heās a shot-blocking, put-back dunk, lob player. Nothing else about his game says heād be the feature player in any offense.ā
Guess I focus in on Lee because I see potential in him and heās not getting it. He was as a freshman like a senior Withey. Iād like to have Withey where he is now and 4 years of him!
Lee would have started this year for Kansas! We have a pretty good reputation for putting bigs in the league.
All those guys wonāt be going in the draft. There are a lot of good players entering their hat this year and Kentucky wonāt completely own the top picks. If guys go out in the second round, they really messed up and should have stayed in school.
It seems crazyā¦ we canāt get a big to start and be āthe manā in our hi/lo, even though we have a great reputation for putting bigs in the league, but Kentucky has plenty quality bigs to ride their pine and smile about it?
I still think Stein stays. He is still way too rough for the league. But maybe you are right and he is seen in a better light by the league.
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Interesting readā¦ especially about Lucas. I posted on him as my dream hire as a Self assistant, but pay him big league money and people didnāt take me serious. I guess Lucas is interested in getting into college ball. Sure, itās Texas and that may mean something. But money talks and BS walks. If Texas doesnāt grab him up, we should. Heāll also bring Maker with himā¦ but thenā¦ heāll basically bring any recruit we could ever want with him.
I would offer him Self-like money to come here with all kinds of extras to build camps in Lawrence. It would benefit him more by just being an assistant coach than a head coach. Lucas should be focused on the big pictureā¦ which for him is about being THE all-time best developing coach the game has ever experienced! We could give him that opportunity, and in doing so, we could put a virtual lock on the success of Kansas basketball for decades to comeā¦ long after Self retires.
We would OWN college basketball! OWN it! Kentucky would vanish off the screen. They have no reputation for developing players. In factā¦ of their current stock, many have been developed by Lucas. Of course, he will continue to develop other players besides Jayhawksā¦ but we have his talents all through the college basketball season. And we have an easy avenue for Kansas players to all get special coaching every summer. Perhaps it means Lucas canāt directly instruct Jayhawk playersā¦ but heāll have his own staff to handle that.
