Nov 13: KU vs Duke Roundup
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It was very interesting that Greene came on to play before AWIII in the first half. Greene did look pretty good in limited first half minutes. I’m with HEM wondering if AWIII somehow got in Self’s doghouse or if it was a strategic move. I know we wound up playing extreme small ball with Frank the Tank and Tharpe - but have to think that will be an exception moving forward.
Either way, IMO he needs to pick just one of those guys to give more consistent minutes to. Going forward, we will need a 6th man coming off the bench who can play with confidence and provide points. And they need to KNOW that’s their role - not wonder if they’re playing at all.
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Other thought - will Mason take Tharpe’s starting job?
Seems crazy to even be typing that but in many ways Mason outplayed Tharpe last night. It was really very impressive. A true freshman in his second real game playing on national TV in a headline game - the kid is a PLAYER. I found myself wanting the ball in either Ellis, Selden’s, or Mason’s hands at crunch time. Mason was smartly exploiting the new foul situation and sinking his FT’s with poise: 11-12!!
Now the criticism would be he only had one assist, and was playing more like a 2-guard than a true point. He wasn’t really looking to pass but rather to drive and draw fouls. Perhaps that’s why it worked pretty well having both Tharpe and him out their together. But that’s one thing we don’t need is another “combo” guard on this roster. Moving forward he’s going to have to look to dish on more of those drives.
Also wondered if Tyus Jones was thinking: I can beat out that JR but not sure about that TRUE FRESHMAN… Duke it is.
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I agree with a lot of the points made above.
Things we learned last night.
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Perry Ellis has added quite a bit to his game. I saw several very adept post moves last night that I am pretty sure were not in his post package last year. Ellis could end up as a 17 ppg scorer this season. I’ve always wished that he was a better rebounder, and he showed up on the glass last night. That to me was a better sign than the points and efficiency. Just so much better than last year in every appreciable way. Rock chalk solid.
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Andrew Wiggins told me to tell you that you should believe the hype. Never got a chance to do much in the first half when Jabari Parker was going off, but down the stretch Wiggins was involved in just about every big play that ultimately stretched the lead and put it away. 22 and 8 in only 25 minutes. Wow. Scary good.
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Every NBA GM that was there last night hopes that nobody else noticed Wayne Selden between Parker, Wiggins and Randle going beast mode in game one (27 and 13, put UK on his back to get back into that one). There was so much talent on the floor in that KU-Duke game last night that Selden was probably the fourth or fifth best player, but if you watched his game, he played just about as well as you can play. Also, he feeds the post exceptionally well. His size allows him to see (and make) passes that most others cannot.
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I think Joel Embiid will be back in Lawrence next year. I know that sounds crazy, but stick with me here. Embiid, right now, is a lottery pick. In 20 minutes last night he grabbed 7 boards and dished out 5 assists. He’s good enough to hold a roster spot in the NBA. However, his lack of experience and his physical talent say that he could be a TOP 3 pick. He won’t be a top 3 pick next summer, but in 2015, I absolutely think he could. The financial difference is big enough in moving from 9 or 10 to 3 that the wait makes sense. That all changes if he progresses to the point that he’s a top 5 pick this year.
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Self is willing to play small. I didn’t think we would ever see Tharpe and Mason on the floor together, but we did, and they were VERY effective. Mason plays like he is the best player on the floor. No fear. No hesitation. He looks at the defense and feels like he can beat his guy off the bounce (and does). Tharpe was a little shaky, but I think that is in part due to the jump from exhibition season to Duke without playing in the first game. Very efficient game from Tharpe. I see no reason to think about making a lineup switch right now.
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Frankamp, White and Greene won’t play much - but one of them will have a chance to make an impact every night. All three of those guys are shot makers. Their role will be to come in and take (and make) shots from distance. Greene did that perfectly last night. I expect that Frankamp and White will have their games where they come in and hit a couple of quick shots to give the team a boost.
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Jamari Traylor plays HARD. With so much other talent on this team, the ability to just play incredibly hard could get lost in the shuffle. I hope Traylor keeps it up, because that kind of intensity is contagious.
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The point of emphasis on hand checking is going to take some time to get used to. 53 fouls last night. 63 FTs. That’s less than ideal. It’s a work in progress, but guys like Frank Mason will be unguardable without the hand check.
Great overall win.
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I mentioned that KU would win close in the preview thread. I said it would come down to rebounding but more importantly they won the FT battle.
Sure Parker won the highlight battle over Wiggins, who cares. Wiggins played with in the team, with in himself and still scored 20 and made a huge shot on that step back.
I he doesn’t get into ticky tack foul trouble early he might of had 30.
Speaking of fouls, the refs are so concentrated on calling them they aren’t watching anyone’s feet anymore. There were a ton of travels they missed. Parker actually did a two foot jump stop then he hopped before he shot it, which is a travel by the simplest of calls, but the ref was looking for contact up top.
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AWESOME points above by everyone, very little to add…
Selden is a freakin’ stud. Made key plays all night long. How NICE to have a McDAA be a “glue” guy, but one who has a full-range athleticism and skills pkg, along with a Senior’s physique.
Amazes me that we had Embiid, Selden, Wiggybaby, and Mason on the floor at the same time…this is new territory for Self, but the NewKids are truly that good–> music to my eyes!
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Duke ran into some Masonry…
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All great assessments. Ellis, Mason, Selden, Wiggins, Embiid, even Greene also, may be in the L in the future. Bob Davis mentioned there was like 83 NBA press passes issued for the games last night. Agreed Ellis didn’t get the praise, but if he stays healthy, my pick for KU MVP, maybe even POY. If I saw a weakness, it was obvious lack of the lockdown defender we had with Releford. Travis FA spoiled us. That said, Parker just abused the def in the 1st half. Likely role for Selden, aka, “The Custodian”, or keeper of the glass. Mason looked the Alpha Dog to me, & yes, Tharpe will be challenged every single day in practice. Wasn’t Mason ranked in the 60-70 range? Another observation I like; maybe were going to see an evolution of sorts with BS allowing the young’uns to play through mistakes for a change, & yes HEM, Embiid needs to be on the floor as the main guy at the 5 to improve with the other rotation guys. When he learns to go straight up without leaving the floor, will be another game changer in the paint to always be in our opponents head…JO JO says NO NO!
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I’m struck by how quickly the media can change it’s tune.
Wiggins was anointed as the top player for months. Completely over-hyped, but it was a bandwagon and it seemed like every analyst, scout and media member was all-in.
Last night, after these two games, one of the analysts (not Bilas) cast doubt about whether Wiggins was the top Freshmen now, based on the performance (i.e. how many points he scored). There was an article yesterday about Jeff Goodman changing his tune and now the ESPN article above also takes polish off Wiggins.
Too many in the media see these individual performances as a win/lose proposition… In other words, someone has to win, someone has to lose. Instead, they should look at the nuances of Wiggins, Parker and Randle (and others). They should question why they have to rank players. It’s pretty clear ranking is not directly correlated to draft selection, so it’s essentially a meaningless, self-indulgent exercise by sports media.
Of course, if they were rigorous in their criteria and built a statistical model that explained how the ranking was determined, I would be open to that. It would seem more objective and less susceptible to whimsy.
Whatever the criteria, you would think it would be consistent from year to year. For instance-- maybe it’s based on Points and Rebounds… Ok. Parker has scored more than Wiggins… But Randle has scored more than Parker… Whatever.
But sports media fail in this department too.
When Anthony Davis didn’t have the most points, he was still considered the top player, because his team won.
In my book, both Wiggins and Parker did great. That was a heavyweight battle on the floor and from the bench.
If I had to pick a difference maker, I’d say depth gave us the win. And yes, Frank Mason may have been the leader of that part of the game.
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@jRyman…Duke excels in no travel calls.
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@RockChalkinTexas If you think Dickie V screwed up, imagine my dismay when the sports anchor for our local tv station opened his report saying something like this: “tonights game features two of the top freshmen in basketball, Andrew Wiggins of Duke and Jabari Parker of Kansas.”
But hey, it’s a small market. Just the SF Bay Area.
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Duke excels in no travel calls.
It’s funny cause it’s true.
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Stats indicate we clearly won the game on the glass & at the line.
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I want to add this and not sure that it wasn’t posted above, didn’t read all the input but what I did was great.
Parker’s foul on Wiggins’ dunk was not a foul, I didn’t think so when it first happened and I didn’t on the replay either. When the whistle blew I was thinking they were going to call a travel or something ridiculous. Really you are going to foul their best player out of the game? And it’s Duke?
These new rule changes have given the ref’s a licence to make bad calls and be justified with them. It’s almost like the NFL with replacement refs.
This game had more whistles in it than a jr high girls game.
As talked about in another post, A funeral for a friend. We talked about how these rules would kill the college game, while the NCAA says with the changes it will bring in more fans. Well the casual fan isn’t going to be happy when the only plyer they know by name on the team, ie Wiggins, Parker, Randell are sitting on the bench in foul trouble. The die hard fans aren’t going to be happy with the product because this isn’t the game we fell in love with.
Don’t get me wrong some change is good, the three point line, the shot clock keeping your jersey tucked in and so on are goo for the game.
If another person tells me the players are going to have to adjust their game, then they won’t be the player that got them that scholarship. Sure Michigan St. proved they could change their style of play, for at least one game. Give Coach Izzo some credit for that. But what about Wisconsin fans and Bo Ryan’s mug a palyer D? Do they have a deep bench? Can they change?
So with this all being said this new rule could help KU, they have a talented deep bench to go to when their starting 5 are in foul trouble. But what if you don’t have a bench full of studs? Then what?
But as I get back to where I started, no matter how I look at it Parker did not foul and that’s hard for me to say because i hate all things puke.
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I enjoyed the first half. I didn’t enjoy the second half because I was in bed. Thanks ESPN (they are reading this, right?) for starting a game at 9:30 PM, and 10:30 on the east coast.
What I don’t get is they scheduled the UK game to start at 6:30 and our game at 8:30. Well, how are they going to start a game at 8:30? So at the earliest it would have started at 9. Sorry for this oft repeated rant, but these networks make really strange decisions sometimes.
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@wissoxfan83. Do you realize the first game started at 4:30 PM West Coast time? ESPN or any other network for that matter has to schedule the game so it is at a reasonable time for the majority of viewers; Unfortunately when it is a double header, this problem will always happen, short of scheduling during a weekend afternoon where football is king at this time of the year. We are a large country with 4 time zones so there is no solution that will please everybody. Being the second game probably gave KU and Duke a larger overall audience than playing the first game, and it was the featured game; the Wiggins-Parker match up had more upside than the UK baby stars versus the MSU very good, solid, experienced but “who-remember-their-names” players.
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ESPN article indicates that Kansas impresses:
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This game exactly fed into my posts this week.
The team with the least fouls wins. The reason why we played two PGs at the same time was Self wanted foot speed on the floor. He did it to limit PFs because he knew we had to win that battle. And by having Duke in foul trouble, it helped ease up the pressure on Wiggins because Duke would have directly targeted Wiggins to foul him out. AW3 is awesome, but he doesn’t have the foot speed of Tharpe. Having two PGs out there should help slow down TOs and PFs while helping us put foot speed on the perimeter for driving into the post and drawing fouls. As I said yesterday, this game was a competition in fouls and fouls would determine the outcome.
My other point this week was the level of commitment I made to Mason. He’s our secret weapon (for now) and he’s the chemistry chunk we need on offense. The threat of his drives helps everyone on offense and it racks up tons of fouls on the opposition. This game represents the footprint for this entire season. We have to constantly push the drive and win the battle of fouls. The more we put other teams into foul trouble, the more it helps relieve our own foul troubles. Mason shot 12 FTs… equaling the most any two other players shot for us. What impressed me is his solid composure at the line. I’m sold on Mason. I’m not sure if it matters if he starts, but he has to get plenty of minutes every game. I like the idea of pushing Tharpe over in stretches to win the foul battles.
Embiid needs to start now. HEM is right on there. We won’t stand a chance facing UK in March with Black in the post. He can make it no more than 5 minutes against Randle before getting in severe foul trouble. That fact won’t change in several months. Black does not have enough upside to keep burning all those experience minutes on the floor. This reminds me of the situation last year and not giving more minutes to Perry sooner. I hope we don’t make the same mistake this year.
If we want to have a legitimate shot at winning a NC it will only be there if we plan for it now.
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Free throws - every player takes 200 FTs every day, 7 days a week, until the season is over. Players like Embiid and Black have to have some weekly coaching on FTs and constant monitoring.
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Mason and Embiid - these guys need to get plenty of minutes from here on out.
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We understand the game as a battle on fouls and we have to win that battle every game. That means a lot of driving offense, and Mason has to be a big part of it.
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@drgnslayr I agree, agree, agree.
And Selden is under the radar. He’s quick and diversely talented… Great assists, solid defense, solid offense… hit FTs. Didn’t make mistakes.
Selden’s 37 minutes were the most by a Jayhawk. Second only to Hood who was on the floor 38 min.
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Wiggins clearly got hit on the head as he dunked the ball. It was a clear foul that should have been called and the ref made reference to him being hit on the head as he called the foul.
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Right, bskeet… Selden is under the radar. We’ve only just begun to see the skills he already has because he has been playing too conservative and tight early on as he figures out D1. He’s still thinking too much, and it slows him down. Hard to imagine what level of ball he’ll be playing at after Christmas!
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I swear, I didn’t know about this when I made that post:
####Halcyon days, Jayhawks!####
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Duke’s version of the game. Not ONE basket by us shown. Different perspective to say the least.
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I loved what I saw last night!
I know there is still some work to do, but I can’t tell who was more instrumental to KU’s win. Mason’s driving and FT shooting, Ellis’s quiet efficient post work on offense or Wiggins making Big Plays when we needed it.
One think that seemed to be happening was Wiggins defense was shutting people down. I know its not as exciting as Randle and Parker putting up 20+ points. But I will take that defense any day.
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@Case I agree that we learned a lot last night… and it seems like we have a lot of what we need. I also noticed Wiggins’ defense. Certainly it has been less appreciated by the pundits… as much as Wiggins’ offensive efficiency (22 points in 25 min), not to mention the fact that he earned the nickname “Ender” by hitting the daggers of the game - the jumper and the dunk.
An interesting question: What do we still need?
I would posit consistent intensity is the key. This team is going to be great if they play with the intensity we saw last night. It will help them learn and grow faster. Plus, few teams will have the talent and depth to handle this team when they are cranked up to 11.
They could get beat by an ordinary team if they don’t play with the passion.
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I’ve been too elated to comment. My expectations are already surpassed. My biggest concern with Wiggins was that he was too willing to disappear, but that last 6 minutes showed otherwise.
What do we still need? A center who can rebound and defend the rim.
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The nickname "Ender"is actually a reference to a popular sci book Ender’s Game that’s actually coming out as a movie soon as well (It’s got Harrison Ford in it). The title character’s name is Andrew Wiggin. I read the book and several of its sequels and spin offs in high school. Good stuff. Hopefully he will continue ending games and hopes for our opponents though. Rock Chalk!
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I see what you did there. Nicely done.
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Was at the game in Chicago and there were a ton of KU fans present. KU won because of rebounding and free throws. KU outrebounded Duke 39-24 and made 77% of their free throws compared to Duke’s 57%. Perry Ellis was also huge. He was efficient from the field, he rebounded well, and he played good defense against Jabari Parker. Obviously Parker played extremely well but Wiggins was nearly as productive playing 8 fewer minutes and he was the better player down the stretch. Also, Frank Mason is a confirmed stud. That’s pretty much it. KU should start Embiid.
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Kirk, great call!
A+
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@JRyman: That 5th foul on Parker was indeed when his right hand brush across BOTH of Wiggy’s up-stretched forearms while he was entering the cylinder with the ball in the act of dunking. (I’ve seen the replay 4-5 times slo-mo…). Credit Wiggins for finishing strong. If Parker “broke up” the dunk, and sent Wiggins to the line for 2 shots, he very well could have missed 1, and it would have been a loss of 2pts for KU. Perhaps a key sacrificial attempt by Parker to save his team–> he knew he had 4 fouls. My hat’s off to Jabari Parker for the awesome game he played, but more kudos to the young Jayhawks (& their coach) for ‘containing’ Parker in the 2nd half. If anybody is the “next LeBron”, it is 6’8 235lb Parker, who by the age of 22-23, could well be 250+ lbs that LeBron is.
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Got a kick out of Hudy celebrating after Wiggins breakaway dunk to ice the game and the huge smil
es from Wiggins and Self in the post game. Nice to see our guys savor it… Smell the roses. Not just a relief to win a big game.
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@approximity. I also saw Andrea and though that she deserves a lot of credit for getting the team in such good physical condition. Also, when they were showing one of Duke’s former players, I thought I saw Sherron Collins in the audience; did anyone else see him or is it just me?
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Sherron was there. Sat to the right of KUs bench behind scorers table.
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Everyone on this thread has eloquently highlighted & stated & overstated again the importance of all these kids contributions most affirmatively & quite accurately. But once more, and with great exuberance, I’d like to acknowledge Perry’s lunch bucket, journeyman level performance on this great stage. Remember how completely timid & shy he seemed most all of last season blanketed with all the accolades, press, & pressures a MCDAA gets? Also recall his surprisingly huge contributions in the late season tournaments when our obvious lack of depth was beginning to expose our weaknesses? This game at the United Center on Tuesday was the official unveiling of not PE the simile of the fashion mogul, but Perry Ellis the Beast of the BG 12, who we will need to, and can depend on night in & night out to bring that lunch bucket skill & mastery, & put up about 16 pts & 10 rebs every game. And the more the merrier. It’s gonna get dirty at times too, but Lava & pumice will clean him up very well later. He’ll matchup against a lot of real tough Tarik Black & Jamari Traylor types, stronger, taller & quicker than he many times over, but he’s been mastering that apprenticeship every day in the gym for a couple of seasons now. So IMO count on it guys, Mister Ellis, with game & an attitude, is my dark horse for at minimum the conference POY, and the brick & mortar that clenches these baby Jbirds together for a record 10th straight BG 12 Championship next March. Plus as an added bonus to me personally, I love to see the ever so miserable, homely, & rat-like facial expressions Konsanants (ode to jaybate) makes when his Dook preppies are getting a real good wax job (not at the salon). Painful as hell for him, but I didn’t feel a thing!
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Phof! Global!
Perry is proof that chemistry is king in college basketball. He’s happy that Wigs is here to steal the spotlight, so Perry can take his lunch bucket to work in the shadows… racking up huge stats in the process to help his team win!
I believe Perry will be rewarded for his quality, mature attitude at the next level. Most NBA teams suffocate on all the egos staying busy creating chaos and problems preventing team cohesiveness. Perry is like a breath of fresh air and smarter management will see what a grab he is in talent and ability to play well with others!
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Thank you for the kind words slayr. Whether it sports, a corporation, or the assembly line, amazing managers always see authentic & natural talent & allow it to flourish within their system for the rewards of all. That’s why tremendously great organizations have so little turnover & monumental & superior successes. Damn- that sounds like KUBB!
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For what it’t worth…
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@Blown I’d say that it is worth a buck fifty-nine.
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…Or maybe a dollar, two ninety-eight.
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not bad, not bad, then. cause I was thinking about a dime
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FWIW, probably less than a dime, but my friend (big Kentucky fan) was at the game Tuesday night, saw Okafor and said there were Kansas people around him, and it looked like he was hanging with them. My friend caught his eye and said “good luck next year” and Okafor said, “thank you sir”. Sounds like he’s a good kid, or polite in any event.
I think they are headed to Duke, but I also thought Wiggins was headed to FSU…
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Sherron posted a pic of himself with Magic from the game on Twitter.
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Blown… OMG on the link.
I didn’t know sports media made the decisions for the players themselves.
I wonder how many of these people picked Wiggins to Kansas? Uh… maybe 3%.
Through your link I tracked their yack about Alexander. According to these dingalings Alexander has a 52% chance of going to Illinois and a 43% chance to Kansas. What are those stats based on? Absolutely nothing. Just the ideas of other sports media from around the United States.
http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/Cliff-Alexander-at-Curie-Metropolitan-9552/Predictions
What makes it all a joke is how much these writers commit to absolute nonsense.
No one knows where these 3 recruits will land because none of them or their crew has snitched.
I bet my dartboard is more accurate than these clowns.
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Right there with ya Slyr. I was just sharing it cause I came across it.
