Cougar chat
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@bskeet Nah Bill had the teams tighter than a nut…tough to perform
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@kuballin10 Maybe that had something to it. But I don’t fully buy it. The seedings were a bit too coincidentally kryptonite matchups. Northern Iowa, Stanford, etc.
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@dylans Let me know what u “saw” in that 2022 title run
This team u are seeing this year is Sr Juan running the pg leading the team
To 8 losses and the lowest big 12 finish in 30-40 years
But sure keep riding him cause Bill says he’s the best true pg in the nation
Give me Collins, Mason, Graham, Taylor, Hinrich any day over this passive d2 athleticism and scared to shoot the 3.
Oh but if you surround him with studs he’s great WRONG!!!
He has an all American 5 man and 3 man and he’s still trash
️The 2022 run would have ended to creighton if not for 1 guy playing the big pg minutes….or providence ….or unc.
Comically bad
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@bskeet listing those two unranked teams as a kryptonite is funny and shows plenty about Bill Self tourney teams
I get losing to Wright’s Nova teams as kryptonite but don’t list that crap. Even if we get by those teams we aint winning it all
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@kjayhawks Shall we say the league level’d up and KU didn’t….ouch
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Wright’s teams were legit good and fairly well rounded.
I list those teams as examples because they had the specific characteristics we had struggled with all year… and they promptly lost the next game. They were only good as a spoiler.
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Yep clearly the guy with the 6th most tournament wins all time can’t coach in that very tournament
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@kuballin10 said in Cougar chat:
@kjayhawks Shall we say the league level’d up and KU didn’t….ouch
I think this is very possible and the sting could be reduced in three weeks if there are 3 or 4 B12 teams in the elite 8.
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@kjayhawks Same and I lean solely on the pg because Bill raves about him and doesn’t even look to replace him.
KJ goes hard 100% and I can’t say that about Juan.
If there’s a chance a guy doesn’t start it’s KJ and he’d be a good sport off the bench……
But somehow our d2 pg is just irreplaceable……get what u deserve William
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@bskeet I think the B12 has a great chance to get multiple teams to the final four. I just wished we was one of them.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Cougar chat:
Yep clearly the guy with the 6th most tournament wins all time can’t coach in that very tournament
Championships >>>total wins without championships
That’s just a longevity deal
Saw since 2000’s for all the 1 seeds we’ve had we only have 2 titles……meanwhile check what Uconn has done
It’s all about titles and I ain’t talking big 12 either
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@bskeet Houston will and that’s it I think
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@kuballin10 ok fine he’s also way up there in winning % and one of only a few with multiple rings. There’s literally no factual argument he’s a bad tournament coach.
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Just heard officially, Hunter had a dislocated shoulder and is done for the year.
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@kjayhawks Do we blame the coach who had him in when we were down 20-30 consistently?
Words - we will play for it in March with Mccullar ect
Actions - keeps starters in when down 20 and getting drilled and guys second half get hurt
William has lost it. We repeat the same arguments because of lineups and limitations at pg a bunch of dudes working 9-5 can see but he can’t
This true pg in his mind is “so valuable” that he’s mind fricked on how to improve this team when they offensively and defensively aren’t successful
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@kjayhawks dislocated shoulder yes, extent we don’t know yet. Will have an MRI when they get back
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I have no urge to run this team back. I’d take KJ back as a bench big solely and Furphy back. The rest of the roster needs a reset. I wouldn’t be mad at Hunter being back as well obviously.
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@TYOHawk most of the team will be new
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Cougar chat:
@TYOHawk most of the team will be new
I’m praying you’re right my man.
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@TYOHawk oh yeah I’d nearly have a stroke if more than 5 returned. It’ll probably be 3-4
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Cougar chat:
@TYOHawk oh yeah I’d nearly have a stroke if more than 5 returned. It’ll probably be 3-4
The 3-4 returning is what concerns me aside from Hunter.
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Just done watching. That kinda sucked the wind out of my sail.
Maybe even sunk the boat if Dickinson is out for awhile. Dislocated for sure.
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A starting line up next season of Harris, McNeely, Furphy, Adams, and Dickinson with a bench rotation of Philon at the 1/2 spots, a portal wing, and Bidunga in the paint is a strong 8 man rotation.
I wouldn’t be upset if Clemence got his act together enough this season for Self to keep him as back up because he’d likely a better option than anyone else as a back up big next season.
The issue with the portal for KU this offseason is going to be finding guys that don’t mind coming in and being back ups because that’s most likely what KU is going to offer kids. This is where you have find kids that fit this make up of the team next season without being significant downgrades because these are mostly going to be mid and low major players that want to fill those roles.
If McNeely ends up elsewhere and if rumors of Scott Drew to Louisville end up being true, Baylor’s got a couple players that I’d be working hard to convince to come to Lawrence. Langston Love or Jayden Nunn would be great gets in that situation as both are light out shooters who can play off the ball.
With Harris, Adams, and Dickinson back, the other two starting spots have to go to guys who can stretch the floor to create spacing for Adams and Dickinson to run tge high low properly.
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First 30 point conference loss since 2000 and lowest scoring out in conference since 1982. This is quickly becoming not only Bill Selfs worst team but one of the worse 40 or 50 years. Hopefully his seat gets warm this offseason, this is unacceptable.
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Not that he should (or even be considered) but KU doesn’t have the money to buy out Self, let alone the cash to find a replacement worth anything.
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@FarmerJayhawk can it get any worse? Like I said we disposing 40 year records here
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@kjayhawks oh it can definitely get worse. UNC missed the tournament last year. Kentucky got bounced from the NIT not that long ago. Dook finished 13-11 a couple years ago. That this is Bill’s worst year is pretty incredible
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@kjayhawks said in Cougar chat:
@FarmerJayhawk can it get any worse? Like I said we disposing 40 year records here
Keep in mind that KU is also dealing with fallout from NCAA punishment that Self basically took the brunt of this season in regards to the scholarship reductions. I’m not sure how the NCAA views the Morris situation in regards to his scholarship counting towards that number this season or not, but now KU has 3 more years to fulfill that punishment of 1 or 2 more scholarship losses for a season. So we play with 12 scholarship players for either 1 or 2 of the next 3 seasons. Self will be able to build depth going forward unlike this season.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Morris’s scholarship counts for this year so we have to give up 1 over the next two years
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@kjayhawks said in Cougar chat:
@FarmerJayhawk can it get any worse? Like I said we disposing 40 year records here
Also, our worst season in 20 seasons under Self is going to result in a 3 or 4 seed in the NCAA Tournament.
Since Self has been hired here, this year will likely be only our third 10+ loss season under Self. During that same span of time, Kentucky has lost 10+ games 13 times, including 5 under Calipari. UNC has had 10 seasons of 10+ losses since Roy went home (8 under Roy, 2 under Davis). Duke has also only had 3 10+ loss seasons since the time Self was hired at Kansas. However, all 3 of those programs have missed at least 1 NCAA Tournament in that time frame and Kentucky and UNC have had losing seasons in that time.
How many programs would love to consider a year like this the worst season in 25 years for their school? Hell, KU has only had 5 10+ loss seasons total since we won the 1988 title. Only Duke can make that same claim, but for them, two of those seasons resulted in missing the NCAA Tournament completely and one losing season. It’s been over 40 seasons now since KU last had a losing record for a season.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 thx! Today was a really bad day for KU fans. But it’s much worse for the players, I feel for them and the coaches. I’m glad Kevin came back, but wonder if he’ll refuse to play after seeing what happened to Hunter. I can’t imagine any KU fan wanting a different coach. We beat some of the best teams this yr, but losing a good player at the beginning really hurt the team in the long run. We’ll see how the injuries play out. I never give up hope.
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“hopefully his seat gets warm”. A national champion coach two years ago. Replace him. Right. Maybe KUBballin10 has two accounts now? Absurd.
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@wissox you know they’re the ones that give up when we r 10 pts down.
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We now wait on the results of Dickinson’s MRI to see how much time he’ll miss with his dislocated shoulder. Personally, I’d sit him and McCullar for the Big 12 Tournament to give KU its best shot at making any kind of run the NCAA Tournament.
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No expert, but if Hunter’s shoulder is what it looked like, that could be a season ender. Hope not!
We may need a new thread about a new starting lineup!
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@wissox I think we all can agree this season has been unacceptable for Kansas basketball.
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@kjayhawks Lol and I thought I was over the top.
Staff shake up would be nice with some new blood and new ideas on both O and D but u don’t fire HOF just cause he had a down year.
Would be just like Bill to land some stud portal 2 guard and roll with Juan, KJ and Hunt back out there and win a title (like after we got smacked by usc and then came back the next year to win it all). Key is a remy type player and sitting Juan. The portal 2 guard will get unlimited shots and need to create when a play breaks down or shot clock is running out.
If Drew miraculously leaves Baylor man what I’d give to pull Nunn and Langston up here but won’t happen because both wouldn’t start cause neither are “the best pure pg in america” geez he’s so homer blind it’s like a high school kid in love when every friend tells them dude she treats u like trash and isn’t all that but they just can’t see it
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@kjayhawks So are you that spoiled that now we have to replace the coach? Where you going to find the next KU coach? Roy Williams had some duds in the late 90’s. Were you calling for his head then? Good grief dude, you’ve gotten to be quite the downer on this board. Not as bad as you know who, but I just can’t believe you’re putting Self on notice.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 if BYU wins aren’t we the 6th seed in big 12 tourney?
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@kuballin10 at least one, maybe both would start depending on Johnny’s draft decision. Neither are point guards anyway.
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@wissox I’m just saying I’m losing faith in his ability to build a roster and he should take some heat for such. Bill Self has never lost more than 10 games in a season as a power 5 coach. Unless we win one of the tournaments that happens this season.
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One can point finger at roster buildup but injuries are out of Self’s control.
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@AsadZ said in Cougar chat:
One can point finger at roster buildup but injuries are out of Self’s control.
Roster build up this season was also Self partially taking the brunt of the NCAA sanctions this season.
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This roster just wasn’t built well at all despite the challenges. They had the chance to build the roster to 11 guys and that didn’t happen. We ended up with 9 guys and now it could be reduced to 7 for the rest of the season, the most important stretch. It’s really hard to fathom how we got here but it seems to be a bit of karma for decisions made in the past and this past offseason. It is what it is. Take our lumps and hopefully turn the page to a brighter future
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@BeddieKU23 are the 2 that left part of your 11? If so it was due to their problems. We were lucky to get Furphy late.
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Roster construction is a complicated mess some years, but this year can be explained pretty simply: we lost seven players in the off-season, some unexpected, and then lost arguably the most important piece in Arterio.
That’s it really. We look different with him in the lineup instead of Furphy, Elmarko or Timberlake. Although I still think (as usual) we would struggle a bit from outside!
Sucks, but as Gene Hackman said: my team’s on the floor.
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I think the sanctions etc is kind of a cop out. Self is a hall of fame coach but anyone can make mistakes and things sometimes happen out of our control. Self chose to bring in a slow center who is a poor defender. He chose to bring on Morris who had major red flags. Imagine another quality guy instead of Morris. He chose to take on Timberlake over another player. The staff miss evaluated how good Jackson was. They landed Marcus Adams who end up being a head case. Kid transfers out of ku and barely lasts week at Gonzaga. They had a bad offseason and kind of lucked into getting furphy late. Obviously he is amazing at his job and most years gets it right
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Mistakes were made in recruiting for sure. I would not include Hunter in that group. He’s a double-double machine.
The sanctions do matter because with 13 you can afford a whiff or two in recruiting. With 11 or 9 or whatever the margin for error decreases by multiples.
We had a confluence of issues - a perfect storm or whatever - yet, we will still be in the tournament (probably a lower seed than we’ve seen in 20 years) and end with a 20+ win season.
It is a sucky year by comparison to the rarified air we are used to, and that reminds me a lot of 88-89 (also post ncaa sanctions)… however unlike that year, Self has likely preserved the NCAA tournament streak.
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One other point. All this fear about next year, just stop and reflect a little.
Self has had many years where he’s lost seniors and starters and 80% of the scoring and so on and the following year is not Armageddon. Sometimes it’s been a conference championship. It’s always been an NCAA berth. It’s always been a top 20 team. It’s always been a top 4 seed in the tournament.
The dude literally has created firebeasts from ashes of the previous season multiple times.
He’s a Phoenix maker.
Now maybe this time it will be different. But why preoccupy with what would have to objectively be considered the least likely scenario —- the one that has never happened?
He will rebuild. We will win again. The hawks will rise again.
He is the Phoenix-maker.
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I wonder what Self said to Sampson in the handshake line. Sampson looked perplexed as Self walked off.
