KU vs Tech Game Thread
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@Jethro I’ve never minded Michigan in the BIG. Dickinson made a stupid comment I acknowledge and I suppose Wisconsin will use it for motivation.
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@wissox It was consistent with how the game was called. Could have been many, many more fouls if it was tightly officiated.
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@BShark Thanks. Since I watched much of the game on fast forward maybe I shouldn’t comment on officiating but that last sequence…KJ got creamed too on his dunk
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@wissox Just go back a couple of possessions and watch KU get fouled 4-5 times. They swallowed the whistle most of the game. (Tech had 1 first half foul)
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Tech had averaged 15 fouls per game coming into the KU game. They had 6 TOTAL. Crazy
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Kevin got robbed of a charge, ref even started the motion of calling it! On Pop’s last drive which ended up with him and bobby on the floor he stuck his Rt forearm into bobby which caused them both to fall. I think Wilson’s man was trying to clear Wilson out for Pop. JMO.
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@BShark I remember you saying this summer you’d be stunned if KJ averaged anywhere near my projections of 8-12 pts 5-7 rbs a game early on in the season. He’s ahead of schedule and will raise his average points total to 11-12 a game by the end of conference play. He always passed the eye test in my book. Starting to feel comfortable scoring in that 10-15 foot range which will open things up even more for cutters he’s been finding so easily. His passing out of pick and rolls and at the free throw line are a thing of beauty. He’s always looking for Gradey on those back cuts when his defender is sleeping. Even with his size disadvantage, he’s still able to seal his man 8ft from the basket to receive those beautiful lobs from Harris
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@madmax said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
@BShark I remember you saying this summer you’d be stunned if KJ averaged anywhere near my projections of 8-12 pts 5-7 rbs a game early on in the season. He’s ahead of schedule and will raise his average points total to 11-12 a game by the end of conference play. He always passed the eye test in my book. Starting to feel comfortable scoring in that 10-15 foot range which will open things up even more for cutters he’s been finding so easily. His passing out of pick and rolls and at the free throw line are a thing of beauty. He’s always looking for Gradey on those back cuts when his defender is sleeping. Even with his size disadvantage, he’s still able to seal his man 8ft from the basket to receive those beautiful lobs from Harris
I think we’re all shocked about KJ’s production and numbers.
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@wissox said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
@BShark Thanks. Since I watched much of the game on fast forward maybe I shouldn’t comment on officiating but that last sequence…KJ got creamed too on his dunk
They really let both sides play. Which I heavily prefer to what happened in Austin.
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Absolutely agree with letting them play but you have to have balance. It’s the complete lack of consistency that continues to plague the game that frustrates me more than anything.
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Takeaways -
The big eye-candy in this game was Juan’s treys. Congrats, Juan! Hope you have more success from trey!
The hidden star of this game was Bobby. 7 points, 4 rebbies, and most important 6 assists in 25 minutes! His ± was 14+ for a reason! Seeing him as a “Juan Version 2” will make us absolutely deadly if he can keep this up! He always seems to make freak plays, like diving on the court. A+ Bobby!
Great maturity game for Gradey. Trey not falling? Then make other plays! His own rebound putback was classic. I think he read my previous post where he made his one trey on a step back while guarded… creating all kinds of scoring space and he did it without a hitch! 8 rebounds?! That kid’s potential is unreal!
KJ is winning over the critics and for good reason. Even his defense on bigger bigs is improving! His touch in mid-range is as soft as a baby’s bottom. Now he just has to adjust his decision-making a little when up so close and start slamming everything close to prevent blocks. Do it by bringing the ball up on the side so the only way it can be defended is fouling.
JWil… his volume shooting is working for us. As the season drags on his % may be dropping but we need some volume shots and he plays a vital part in keeping defenses honest.
Kevin had a tough game but still made plenty of key plays. He’s a guy that shows up to work with a sledgehammer. He is absolutely one of the keys to our success!
Still hoping we eventually get a bit more from our bench, but this wasn’t a game to go deep on the bench without knowing they will come through. It is going to be tough for our bench guys to get more PT during league play. They will have to earn minutes by proving more in practice.
Big shout-out to Joe… we need him back!
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@madmax said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
@BShark I remember you saying this summer you’d be stunned if KJ averaged anywhere near my projections of 8-12 pts 5-7 rbs a game early on in the season. He’s ahead of schedule and will raise his average points total to 11-12 a game by the end of conference play. He always passed the eye test in my book. Starting to feel comfortable scoring in that 10-15 foot range which will open things up even more for cutters he’s been finding so easily. His passing out of pick and rolls and at the free throw line are a thing of beauty. He’s always looking for Gradey on those back cuts when his defender is sleeping. Even with his size disadvantage, he’s still able to seal his man 8ft from the basket to receive those beautiful lobs from Harris
I was very wrong about how things would play out. It was very apparent from day 1 he was our best big this year once we got to see guys play. What a revelation for Self to have 6 guys in the circle of trust and none of them are true post players.
Going over those old threads. I still can’t believe we kept Cam around. A real shame about Texas getting Hunter.
Funny that the video you posted had him working out with Julius Randle. He’s kind of like a homeless man’s version of Randle/Zion. Does a lot of things well. We both thought he would be playing at the 4 from the look of it and the true game changer for him is being a 5. Zach being a complete non-factor is probably the biggest surprise. He has to be a major transfer candidate.
ETA: KJ is as good a passer as we have ever had at the 5 spot.
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@BeddieKU23 said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
Absolutely agree with letting them play but you have to have balance. It’s the complete lack of consistency that continues to plague the game that frustrates me more than anything.
Oh for sure. Literally side by side last night you had a game where guys could get hammered and no call and then the other game had 46 fouls called. Zero consistency game to game.
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@BeddieKU23 In Madison last night the Badgers had 3 fouls called on them with 15 seconds left in the first half. Minny had possession so the Badgers start fouling since they have fouls to give.
2nd half starts and in the first 5 minutes they’d called UW for fouls 6 times! Inconsistency, yes indeed, pretty blatantly bad this year.
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@BShark i guess im still at a loss on why everyone thought Zach or Cam would amount to much this year. In their time here, I’ve just never thought they had the same potential as those in front of them - neither of them look like big time college basketball players to me.
KJ doesn’t have the same power or aggressiveness when driving to the basket at someone like Julius Randle, but I think he has the potential to get even better at it and be a respectable long range shooter. He already has a good touch from 10-15 feet, so no reason he couldn’t expand that a bit. I’m really excited about how he’s progressed and the matchup problem he creates for bigger teams. So many are worried about playing a “big team”
. I guess those people haven’t learned anything from UConn or Villanova.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
Kevin got robbed of a charge, ref even started the motion of calling it! On Pop’s last drive which ended up with him and bobby on the floor he stuck his Rt forearm into bobby which caused them both to fall. I think Wilson’s man was trying to clear Wilson out for Pop. JMO.
That’s exactly what happened. Wilson’s guy (Batcho) was trying to back him out of the paint to clear the lane for Pop and he fell on his ass
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Edit: I got users confused. I think most people figured that Self would start one true post player. A fair assertion given his history. There was a lot of hope that Zach could take the starting spot but he did not put in the work this offseason. I do think he will transfer out after this year.
I wanted Cam to leave and there was talk that he would. Ultimately Self didn’t force him out and he was okay being a deep reserve here.
I think we can get to the point where KJ is acceptable as a mid-range shooter (still not there yet imo) but developing a three would surprise me. No doubt he will put in the work and I figure at this point he will start the rest of his time at KU.
I would also say KJ definitely fits what Self tends to like in a player. Athletic etc… I think Zach will find a decent home somewhere. Won’t be a world beater by any means and I think he should go down to like, a G5 school or something.
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Well, the team is national championship good, and I think our analysis isn’t far behind. Some really great points made by all. Don’t think anyone had KJ doing what he’s done so far. We spent the first 5 or so games coming up with players to replace KJ. Zach was first. Then it was Udeh. Then it was Zuby. KJ just toiled on. Then he starts making buckets, and he hasn’t stopped since, and we’ve quit looking for replacements. Just an amazing transformation.
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One good thing about Ttech only getting 6 fouls called on them is we don’t waste as many possessions by missing FTS! As it was were only 2-4 and this teams ineptness at the line worries me a bit. We’re at 68% and should pressure situations arise later in the season we’re going to be holding our collective breaths.
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KJ is the best fit for Self’s current motion offense… which is all about either hitting treys or driving/feeding the center corridor. Notice how he keeps mentioning the center driving lane.
KJ is our quickest big and is now proven he can score in mid range and at the rim. He is perfect for pick-n-roll or pick-n-pop. Plus… Self goes nuts for his hustle!
What I really want to know… is Self designing all of these offensive nuances by himself or are his players contributing?
Think back just a few years… and we started talking about how his wings would drive across the lane and then curl into finishing directly at the rim. Notice how JWil does it… then compare it to Och and CB. Seems like this may have even started before those guys but I can’t remember.
It feels like we are running a hybrid of a hybrid of a hybrid! “Self tweaks!”
Self will end up being acknowledged as one of the greatest D1 coaches of all times! I know he always barks about defense and considers it his calling card… but if you look back at all the offense he’s designed in college basketball… no other coach has designed more effective offense! Perhaps Mark Few is up there with him!
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What a post!
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most-freaky dunk photo of all times -
Bet he could have grabbed the horizontal support beam with his legs! lol
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@drgnslayr said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
most-freaky dunk photo of all times -
Bet he could have grabbed the horizontal support beam with his legs! lol
Raider fans wanted a technical foul for this. Seems pretty clear it was necessary given he got fouled pretty good then the guy ended up underneath.
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@BShark haha I was sweating out those first few games while KJ was settling into his role. Rarely do I go out on a limb for someone so unproven. I usually leave that to people like you, who seem to have more reliable insider info. You’re definitely right about everyone thinking Zack or Ernest would get the nod at the 5. The 5 has been the biggest surprise this year no doubt.
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@madmax said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
@BShark haha I was sweating out those first few games while KJ was settling into his role. Rarely do I go out on a limb for someone so unproven. I usually leave that to people like you, who seem to have more reliable insider info. You’re definitely right about everyone thinking Zack or Ernest would get the nod at the 5. The 5 has been the biggest surprise this year no doubt.
Udeh is definitely more of a project than I think most expected.
@FarmerJayhawk may know more than me on this but I’m pretty sure they wanted Zach to be the guy. It’s just he didn’t progress how they hoped at all and word was pretty negative on him once practices started.
KJ has been, to use a Bill term “just unbelievable” at the 5 for the team.
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@BShark 100% they wanted Zach to seize the 5 spot.
I’ve been saying for at least a year the C/O 23 is behind because of Covid. Especially the bigs. There are obviously exceptions (e.g. Gradey) but by and large there aren’t a lot of impact freshmen this year. Rice, Udeh, and even Zuby to some degree were less prepared for a The Bill Self Experience than other, similarly ranked freshmen in previous years.
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@BShark it was me that said I was confident kj would develop the three ball.
I have this confidence for two reasons.
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KJ seems to be an absolute workhorse and a sponge. His natural position is not a 5 yet he’s learned it and innovated inside of it already in his sophomore year.
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He took at least one if not two threes during either the late night game or the exhibition game (can’t remember which). He took it in rhythm without any hesitation. To me this means he has seen that shot go in and had enough confidence to pull it in front of a crowd. I also think he’s smart enough to know that his playing time and role on this team has nothing to do with his outside shot so that’s not his focus. Next year, I see him playing more of the 4 which has of late been more of a stretch 4/ wing. We know he can guard that spot. And I think when the time comes he will be able to play that spot offensively as well. He has all the tools to be a good driver and finisher, especially over smaller players. I truly think that shot is there, just underdeveloped. Pretty sure that will be his off-season focus and his focus usually gets results.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
@BShark 100% they wanted Zach to seize the 5 spot.
I’ve been saying for at least a year the C/O 23 is behind because of Covid. Especially the bigs. There are obviously exceptions (e.g. Gradey) but by and large there aren’t a lot of impact freshmen this year. Rice, Udeh, and even Zuby to some degree were less prepared for a The Bill Self Experience than other, similarly ranked freshmen in previous years.
Don’t Udeh and Zuby seem prepared about the same as Big Dave was as Frosh? I remember liking Dave’s hustle, but he was, as @approxinfinity described, “our wild giant” as a first year player. Doke was just a dunk machine for a couple years while he broke all his hands, and it finally clicked for him in his junior year that he had to set screens and be in certain places in the offense… and then his D really became dominant his senior year. TRob usually picked up 4 fouls in 10 minutes and barely saw the court his first year. I expect both Udeh and Zuby to be really solid players by year three for sure. One of them will probably be ready to start next year if KJ moves to the 4.
I have no clue if Rice’s actually has developmental issues, if he was just overhyped, or is a typical first year guy in Bill’s system that can’t use his high school athleticism to cover his lack of bb IQ. If McCullar hadn’t transferred in, I suppose we’d be learning more and complaining about Rice’s potential.
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@BShark TTech fans are football fans so they really don’t understand the game. I seriously doubt KU fans would be clamoring for a hanging on the rim T in a similar situation in AFH.
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Great posts!
@wissox My thoughts exactly! It just shows how amateurish their basketball fans are. I’d be embarrassed if KU fans did that!
@DanR Spot on with your assessment of our past bigs. Heck… remember Doke? I recall having to defend his potential! Concerning Rice… He started behind and even then didn’t seem 100%… and now is in the “freshman toughening box.” I expect him to find a few more minutes this year, just not sure they will ever count on him unless they have to.
@benshawks08 I’m not thinking KJ will be putting up a 3-ball anytime soon… unless the clock runs down and he’s stuck with the ball.
I had bought in to @Texas-Hawk-10 line of reasoning on Zach… thinking he had the highest skill levels and would cruise into the 5-spot. But in the end, it was KJ’s hustle that won him PT. I do recall how often Self would brag about KJ’s hustle. And it is hustle that wins plays, and ultimately, rubs off on teammates. Thinking deeper on this… I just don’t think Self has bought in to Zach shooting up many treys. Who will rebound when our big is on the perimeter? Will Zach be able to get back on D when his trey shot bricks and most of our 1-4 crashes the boards?
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@drgnslayr to be clear I don’t think he will even attempt one the rest of this year unless like you said it is forced. We will see what happens next year. I just have a funny feeling that he will develop that shot and think it’s likely more developed already than we’ve seen because he just focuses on what coach tells him to do.
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Thing is… I’m not so sure Self is sold on having his bigs pumping treys. I remember when Kieff used to shoot some. Self was okay with it, but I didn’t see us run offense especially for a 5 to hoist the long ball. But there is a difference between a long player who is more of a 4 than a 5. It mostly comes down to rebounds and the responsibility of the 5 to rebound.
Self just supported that by giving KJ all kinds of love comments but said he still wants him to rebound better!
Self’s focus on 5’s shooting treys is on defense. It bugs him considerably when we play a team who has a 5 shooting perimeter ball. He not only wants our 5 to defend the trey line, but then turn around and at least get in position for long rebounds.
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@DanR I think Dave was more ready to go tbh. Doke was a unique case because he was so young. Fair point on Thomas.
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Udeh is raaaaaw. Like if a steak came out that raw I’m pretty sure a good vet could bring it back raw. I hope he figures it out. Lots of potential, but man am I glad for KJ’s play.
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@dylans said in KU vs Tech Game Thread:
Udeh is raaaaaw. Like if a steak came out that raw I’m pretty sure a good vet could bring it back raw. I hope he figures it out. Lots of potential, but man am I glad for KJ’s play.
Glad someone else sees it too.
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Doke was Raw, but he knew how big he was and used it.
Udeh seems to not realize he is as big, long and strong as he is.
That’s really the difference between the two. I have a lot of confidence that it clicks for Udeh before he leaves KU.
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@Kcmatt7 Yeah I’ve seen enough of Udeh and Zuby that I think both should be good players for us before it’s over.
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They are both some really fun guys too!
