Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?
-
I agree with Texashawk that the post situation has been addressed in recruiting. There seems to be a popular opinion within portions of the KU fanbase on twitter/247 that KU can/will add a transfer 5 man. Where is the room?
I do think the 5 posted in the op is the likely starting line-up if JWill is back.
-
@BShark just saying that if we have a chance to get a real rim protector in the portal I say yes please. Tired of giving up so many layups from smalls. Udeh is going to be the guy that fills that role eventually, but unless he’s the next Embiid it’s won’t be next year. I see us having a bunch of 4’s that may play the 5 a little but no true post next year other than an unproven freshman. Just how I see it
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@Oldmanhawk said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@FarmerJayhawk With or without Dave, I believe our biggest need is a true rim protector. I think Dave is gone so yes, a proven defensive presence is what I would like to see
Already addressed in recruiting. Ernest Udeh is going to be a very strong defensive presence for KU. Not much offensively yet, but probably the highest ceiling on defense for a 5 that KU has had since Jeff Withey. Zach Clemence has also shown the mentality to be a good defender and we should see a big leap from him on that end next season after he spends an off-season adding muscle to his frame. While KJ Adams might not be a shot blocker or good rebounder, he’s shown to be an above average defender already. KU should be in a really good place defensively at the 5 spot for the next several seasons.
What KU is missing is a 6-3/6-4 combo guard. Right now, the likely options at the 2 spot next season are 6-7 Christian Braun who struggles to stay in front of smaller, quicker guards, and 6-0 Joseph Yesufu who struggles to hold his ground against bigger, stronger guards. Behind them will probably be 6-2 Kyle Cuffe, but I doubt he sees much court time next season.
KU is set at every other position. Harris and Pettiford probably going to be the two guys running the show. Braun will probably also spend a fair bit of time at the spot where KU will also have incoming freshmen MJ Rice and Gradey Dick as options. Both Dick and Rice are potential OAD caliber players as each show up as first round picks in various 2023 mock drafts. Wilson has the 4 spot locked down if he’s back and Self will have Adams and another incoming freshman in Zuby Ejiofor as options. I think Gradey Dick or MJ Rice get most of the back up minutes at the 4 spot behind Wilson.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@Oldmanhawk said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@FarmerJayhawk With or without Dave, I believe our biggest need is a true rim protector. I think Dave is gone so yes, a proven defensive presence is what I would like to see
Already addressed in recruiting. Ernest Udeh is going to be a very strong defensive presence for KU. Not much offensively yet, but probably the highest ceiling on defense for a 5 that KU has had since Jeff Withey. Zach Clemence has also shown the mentality to be a good defender and we should see a big leap from him on that end next season after he spends an off-season adding muscle to his frame. While KJ Adams might not be a shot blocker or good rebounder, he’s shown to be an above average defender already. KU should be in a really good place defensively at the 5 spot for the next several seasons.
What KU is missing is a 6-3/6-4 combo guard. Right now, the likely options at the 2 spot next season are 6-7 Christian Braun who struggles to stay in front of smaller, quicker guards, and 6-0 Joseph Yesufu who struggles to hold his ground against bigger, stronger guards. Behind them will probably be 6-2 Kyle Cuffe, but I doubt he sees much court time next season.
KU is set at every other position. Harris and Pettiford probably going to be the two guys running the show. Braun will probably also spend a fair bit of time at the spot where KU will also have incoming freshmen MJ Rice and Gradey Dick as options. Both Dick and Rice are potential OAD caliber players as each show up as first round picks in various 2023 mock drafts. Wilson has the 4 spot locked down if he’s back and Self will have Adams and another incoming freshman in Zuby Ejiofor as options. I think Gradey Dick or MJ Rice get most of the back up minutes at the 4 spot behind Wilson.
I think you have better chance /odds of Rice not ever suiting up for a single KU game - then CJ coming back. I think BOTH scenario’s are pretty good that ONE CB enters the draft ( especially if the number 19 projection is a rational ) -I feel pretty confident CB will stay in the draft and rice is Rice - -still don’t think he shows for good. - Both will not be here. - # 19 is about CB’s ceiling in the draft if he can actually reach that come time- he not going much higher -so he will tke that and run
-
There’s no substitute for experience. We’ll have a bunch of green players next season. I’m all for keeping Dave if, as @FarmerJayhawk suggests, he has to compete for time and if there is room on the roster.
By all accounts he’s a smart dude, a hard worker and he bleeds crimson and blue. Three great qualities you’d look for in a mentor for the young guys.
-
@tis4tim said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
There’s no substitute for experience. We’ll have a bunch of green players next season. I’m all for keeping Dave if, as @FarmerJayhawk suggests, he has to compete for time and if there is room on the roster.
By all accounts he’s a smart dude, a hard worker and he bleeds crimson and blue. Three great qualities you’d look for in a mentor for the young guys.
I wouldn’t have a fit if Dave came back
-
Sounds like lightfoot, I do love him.
-
Dave needs to go. Cam won’t be back imo.
I suspect they already have a guard in mind from the transfer portal and it is unofficially a done deal. Yesufu was a Jayhawks before the tournament ended last season.
I don’t think there is room at the 5 to add a transfer.
I think you’ll see another departure besides Cam, but I’m hoping not
-
I also think a lineup of:
- Harris
- Braun
- Wilson
- Kj
- Zach
Is being discounted a bit. I can definitely see us going back to two bigs with the guys we have next season.
-
Final thought here - the roster as constructed (barring a ton of guys leaving) is so well balanced that we don’t have any “needs” as much as wants.
I want a 3 and D 40% Trey baller guard who is 6’3. But this team can be top 5 next season without it
-
@Kcmatt7 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
I also think a lineup of:
- Harris
- Braun
- Wilson
- Kj
- Zach
Is being discounted a bit. I can definitely see us going back to two bigs with the guys we have next season.
Yeah this line up can play if Wilson starts to inch closer to 40% as a three point shooter. Adam’s has shown he’s a capable defender on the perimeter and Zach can stretch the floor on offense so it definitely could work. I wouldn’t be surprised to see: Harris Yes Braun Wilson Zach
-
@Kcmatt7 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
I want a 3 and D 40% Trey baller guard who is 6’3. But this team can be top 5 next season without it
Doesn’t everyone! Lol.
-
@benshawks08 yea this situation requires Jalen to take a leap. But hopefully Bill uses this as a motivator for him to put in the work
-
@jayballer67 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@Oldmanhawk said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@FarmerJayhawk With or without Dave, I believe our biggest need is a true rim protector. I think Dave is gone so yes, a proven defensive presence is what I would like to see
Already addressed in recruiting. Ernest Udeh is going to be a very strong defensive presence for KU. Not much offensively yet, but probably the highest ceiling on defense for a 5 that KU has had since Jeff Withey. Zach Clemence has also shown the mentality to be a good defender and we should see a big leap from him on that end next season after he spends an off-season adding muscle to his frame. While KJ Adams might not be a shot blocker or good rebounder, he’s shown to be an above average defender already. KU should be in a really good place defensively at the 5 spot for the next several seasons.
What KU is missing is a 6-3/6-4 combo guard. Right now, the likely options at the 2 spot next season are 6-7 Christian Braun who struggles to stay in front of smaller, quicker guards, and 6-0 Joseph Yesufu who struggles to hold his ground against bigger, stronger guards. Behind them will probably be 6-2 Kyle Cuffe, but I doubt he sees much court time next season.
KU is set at every other position. Harris and Pettiford probably going to be the two guys running the show. Braun will probably also spend a fair bit of time at the spot where KU will also have incoming freshmen MJ Rice and Gradey Dick as options. Both Dick and Rice are potential OAD caliber players as each show up as first round picks in various 2023 mock drafts. Wilson has the 4 spot locked down if he’s back and Self will have Adams and another incoming freshman in Zuby Ejiofor as options. I think Gradey Dick or MJ Rice get most of the back up minutes at the 4 spot behind Wilson.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@Oldmanhawk said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@FarmerJayhawk With or without Dave, I believe our biggest need is a true rim protector. I think Dave is gone so yes, a proven defensive presence is what I would like to see
Already addressed in recruiting. Ernest Udeh is going to be a very strong defensive presence for KU. Not much offensively yet, but probably the highest ceiling on defense for a 5 that KU has had since Jeff Withey. Zach Clemence has also shown the mentality to be a good defender and we should see a big leap from him on that end next season after he spends an off-season adding muscle to his frame. While KJ Adams might not be a shot blocker or good rebounder, he’s shown to be an above average defender already. KU should be in a really good place defensively at the 5 spot for the next several seasons.
What KU is missing is a 6-3/6-4 combo guard. Right now, the likely options at the 2 spot next season are 6-7 Christian Braun who struggles to stay in front of smaller, quicker guards, and 6-0 Joseph Yesufu who struggles to hold his ground against bigger, stronger guards. Behind them will probably be 6-2 Kyle Cuffe, but I doubt he sees much court time next season.
KU is set at every other position. Harris and Pettiford probably going to be the two guys running the show. Braun will probably also spend a fair bit of time at the spot where KU will also have incoming freshmen MJ Rice and Gradey Dick as options. Both Dick and Rice are potential OAD caliber players as each show up as first round picks in various 2023 mock drafts. Wilson has the 4 spot locked down if he’s back and Self will have Adams and another incoming freshman in Zuby Ejiofor as options. I think Gradey Dick or MJ Rice get most of the back up minutes at the 4 spot behind Wilson.
I think you have better chance /odds of Rice not ever suiting up for a single KU game - then CJ coming back. I think BOTH scenario’s are pretty good that ONE CB enters the draft ( especially if the number 19 projection is a rational ) -I feel pretty confident CB will stay in the draft and rice is Rice - -still don’t think he shows for good. - Both will not be here. - # 19 is about CB’s ceiling in the draft if he can actually reach that come time- he not going much higher -so he will tke that and run
Bleacher Report is the only place that has Braun as 1st round pick. Most reputable draft projection sites don’t even have Braun as a 2022 draft pick, but a 2023 pick. Serious question, what is Christian Braun actually good enough at right now that translates to the NBA? Braun is still too passive in looking for his shot, he’s not quick enough to own by people, he’s not a great shooter, he’s an average at best college defender and really struggles against top athletes on defense.
Also, MJ Rice’s stock has a dropped a little bit since last summer to the point of where there’s a lot less chatter of him skipping college at this point. Committing to a school in November also is unusual timing for someone planning on skipping college.
-
@Kcmatt7 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
I also think a lineup of:
- Harris
- Braun
- Wilson
- Kj
- Zach
Is being discounted a bit. I can definitely see us going back to two bigs with the guys we have next season.
KJ Adams isn’t starting for KU next season and Jalen Wilson won’t spend a meaningful second at the 3 next year. Jalen can’t defend the 4 very well and would be an even bigger disaster on that end at the 3. KJ can’t rebound worth a damn. I’m not talking him being below average, Adams is straight up trash at rebounding. He has 9 defensive rebounds all season in 150 minutes. Even Bobby Pettiford has more defensive rebounds than Adams this season despite playing 40 fewer minutes amd being a PG instead of a 5.
-
I think Dave is likely not playing bb after this year, unless he has really successful surgery, and even then he might not want to limp for the rest of his life. Cannot see him being mobile in time to play in the fall.
-
Ok, I have Harris/Braun/Rice/Wilson and Clemence. If MJ bugs out, replace with Dick. I think that’s a really good team. MJ is a 6’5"Mack truck with skills. He reminds me of Wayne Selden in several ways, although the scouts compare him to Mark Vital. Our bench next year is loaded with everything but the kitchen sink. It will probably take some time, but when that team gels the ceiling could be much higher than this year.
-
so does Wilson return ? - - - Does Braun return - - -Does Cave return ? - - - gonna be interesting
-
@jayballer67 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
so does Wilson return ? - - - Does Braun return - - -Does Cave return ? - - - gonna be interesting
Wilson and Braun will almost certainly be back. Wilson isn’t on any mocks and IDK why Bleacher Report has Braun as a top 20 pick he’s not an NBA caliber player to me. Dave is the interesting one because there’s a possibility he does come back next year and that makes the rotation situation very interesting in the front court and almost guarantees a return to a two big line up.
-
CB will be back barring a drastic change. Jalen was set to be gone but as mentioned before it is more up in the air now.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 I thought the same thing about Braun during the game yesterday. We love him and he’s become a far better college player than I thought he would be. That said, I don’t see where he fits as a pro and don’t see the first round happening. He’s disappeared too much and guys like him that are his size need to be able to shoot jump shots and not set shots.
-
@BShark said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
CB will be back barring a drastic change. Jalen was set to be gone but as mentioned before it is more up in the air now.
Therre was an NBA scout I was hearing after the game and this scout was saying that CB was on A LOT of NBA teams Radar - projected as high sa 17th - Yet he said having said that - CB needs to come back
-
@jayballer67 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@BShark said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
CB will be back barring a drastic change. Jalen was set to be gone but as mentioned before it is more up in the air now.
Therre was an NBA scout I was hearing after the game and this scout was saying that CB was on A LOT of NBA teams Radar - projected as high sa 17th - Yet he said having said that - CB needs to come back
There’s a big difference between being on the NBA’s radar and being an NBA prospect. Christian Braun should absolutely be on the NBA’s radar and should declare for the draft and go through that process to get the feedback from the NBA on what he needs to improve in their eyes.
If Braun can make the same leap Ochai did and play like he did in December for an entire season, then he’ll make the same leap Ochai did from someone NBA teams have been keeping an eye on to someone who’s likely going to be drafted.
-
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@jayballer67 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@BShark said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
CB will be back barring a drastic change. Jalen was set to be gone but as mentioned before it is more up in the air now.
Therre was an NBA scout I was hearing after the game and this scout was saying that CB was on A LOT of NBA teams Radar - projected as high sa 17th - Yet he said having said that - CB needs to come back
There’s a big difference between being on the NBA’s radar and being an NBA prospect. Christian Braun should absolutely be on the NBA’s radar and should declare for the draft and go through that process to get the feedback from the NBA on what he needs to improve in their eyes.
If Braun can make the same leap Ochai did and play like he did in December for an entire season, then he’ll make the same leap Ochai did from someone NBA teams have been keeping an eye on to someone who’s likely going to be drafted.
Well I’m gonna say this. IF he is s high as this site is projected and I would think they just might know a little more then you and me as these are made up of NBA Scouts - if he is projected that high - - then he needs to take it and run - -run as fast as he can cause I feel there would be no way he would improve his stock by coming back as I think if it’s true s some drafts have him - he has hit his ceiling - he wouldn’t be going any higher
If he elected to return - -he takes a chance on having a wors year and draft status drops - he risks serious injury and NEVER making his dream period. -So again if he is truly being marked as the # 19 player he would be an idiot not to go
-
@jayballer67 Bleacher Report is the only somewhat reputable place that has Braun anywhere close to a top 20 pick. Just about anywhere else that has Braun listed at this point that I’m aware of is either in second round or 2023 1st round. Jonathan Givony of ESPN, formerly NBA Express, is generally considered the best NBA draft projection guy out there and he has Braun as an early 2nd round pick.
Christian Braun projects as a 2 guard at the NBA level so the things he’s going to have to improve to boost his stock is his shooting (being more consistent), his decision making (too many bad turnovers from bad decisions), and show he can guard smaller, quicker players. Those aren’t physical tools that can be added with time in the gym, these are things that have to be shown on the court amd of Braun comes back next season, KU will be his team because he’ll be the lone senior in the rotation. With a lot of younger players in the rotation next year, it’ll demonstrate other intangibles that can boost his stock as well.
Injury will always be a risk, but this isn’t a case of Braun being a near finished product that needs refinement and can do that in the NBA/G-League, Braun still has a lot to prove and coming back will help his pro prospects a lot more in the long run than leaving this season.
-
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/pat-connaughton-1.html
This guy is such a good comp for CB it is insane. And he’s played over 400 NBA games. So CB is most certainly a pro prospect.
-
I expect CB and JWil to return after a sniff at the draft. This could change, mostly for CB, if there was the perfect NBA scenario where he could get guaranteed money in his first year. I find that extremely unlikely.
Big Dave is a mystery mostly depending on the extent and recovery of his surgery. I don’t see him having much of an NBA chance without coming back for a 5th year. Plus… I’m not sure but I think a lot of Int’l pro ball channels have dried up because of Covid, world economy, and maybe even the war.
I agree with many… I would happily take a 5th year Dave! If he improves his bad wheel, I would expect him to have a very good year and he can have a premium situation for him and us by sharing post minutes.
I agree with @Texas-Hawk-10 … our main focus on picking up another player will be a combo guard with some size… preferably in the 6’5" or bigger mold.
We have to address the big elephant in the room… how bad our defense is. I’m not sure what Self is going to do… but I know he is going crazy inside with our current team and their shortcomings. Outside of we lucking in on catching a footer with defensive skills… I guarantee… if we could find someone of this caliber in the portal, Self will give the ranch to recruit him.
Just imagine this year’s team if we had a Doke or even a Withey in the post! We would be the odds on favorite for a title!
-
@Kcmatt7 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/pat-connaughton-1.html
This guy is such a good comp for CB it is insane. And he’s played over 400 NBA games. So CB is most certainly a pro prospect.
CB is a legit pro prospect but he loves it in Lawrence and isn’t in a hurry.
-
@BShark said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@Kcmatt7 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/pat-connaughton-1.html
This guy is such a good comp for CB it is insane. And he’s played over 400 NBA games. So CB is most certainly a pro prospect.
CB is a legit pro prospect but he loves it in Lawrence and isn’t in a hurry.
He loves it in Lawrence but if he is like any other average Joe - - that Money speaks even louder, he can still love it in Lawrence, there have been others come back to Lawrence that have made it after the time at KU
-
@BShark thinking he knows what it did for Och?
-
@jayballer67 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@BShark said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@Kcmatt7 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/pat-connaughton-1.html
This guy is such a good comp for CB it is insane. And he’s played over 400 NBA games. So CB is most certainly a pro prospect.
CB is a legit pro prospect but he loves it in Lawrence and isn’t in a hurry.
He loves it in Lawrence but if he is like any other average Joe - - that Money speaks even louder, he can still love it in Lawrence, there have been others come back to Lawrence that have made it after the time at KU
This is a lot different from say, Malik Newman or BMac. He’s not a slam dunk first round pick and well, of course KU basketball players are not hurting for money either.
He still could go, you never know, but it would be a massive surprise.
-
I hope that CB and JW declare, get feedback and come back, in other words, follow the path taken by Och.
They have a solid example in front of them in that how total dedication and hard work can pay huge dividends.
-
@jayballer67 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
He loves it in Lawrence but if he is like any other average Joe - - that Money speaks even louder, he can still love it in Lawrence, there have been others come back to Lawrence that have made it after the time at KU
I wonder how his sales are going for his fashion line?
-
He sold out his first time.
-
@drgnslayr said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
@jayballer67 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
He loves it in Lawrence but if he is like any other average Joe - - that Money speaks even louder, he can still love it in Lawrence, there have been others come back to Lawrence that have made it after the time at KU
I wonder how his sales are going for his fashion line?
DON’T REALLY KNOW BUD
-
B U M P
-
Just feels inevitable tbh.
-
@Kcmatt7 said in Hypothetical: 5th Year Dave, What's the Fit?:
Just feels inevitable tbh.
Bill definitely won’t say no.
-
Worked for Mitch. Worked for us.
