Is It Possible?
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When I turned the game on half way through the second half we were already beat.
Guys had their heads down. Even new players coming in would put their hands on their knees immediately.
I’d like to send Hudy to WV to see what they do for conditioning. We seem to be losing that competitive side.
Strength and endurance are not exactly related.
But… Huggy Bear is one of the few coaches in the B12 who understands what a chip is. I hope we never meet WVU in the big tourney. We will get killed. Huggy will preach to his guys on how under-rated they are and how over-rated we are. And it just isn’t fair that the world doesn’t stop and take notice of WVU.
It is just like WSU. I hope we never play them again in March either. If we do this March. We are dead. Marsha, once again, plays the “chip card” and we fold up like a cheap suitcase.
Huggy gets it.
We always play with one hand tied behind our back. Always. Because we play teams that are inspired to beat us while we just show up and play.
I’m back on my “chip” soap box again!
We won’t ever ever ever win another NC without a chip. Not going to happen. Because we will face teams with a chip.
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@drgnslayr Agreeed! Need a chip.
Hard to play with a chip when you have a bunch of spoiled 4 and 5 star players.
Maybe it’s time to take away some of their amenities back home? Make them earn those super nice dorms and lounges?
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I really don’t know the best way to instill a chip. It must be possible. It is possible.
Duke had a dump truck of young talent last year and they won it all. They definitely had some chip. No way they could beat Wisconsin without it.
Why do our guys feel so entitled?
They haven’t won sh*t!
Maybe our pathway is to blow the B12 conference streak. Have it go on these guys’ heads. See if they react in March.
They should be humiliated right now. They should feel the size of a pea.
I’ve always said this is the one area of game where Self needs help.
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@drgnslayr you’d think Perry, Traylor and possibly Hunter being seniors with court time would take that personal and take the rest of the team to task to go get the National Title to make up for it.
I think the Duke thing was they weren’t the story everyone was talking about. It was Kentucky the whole year u til the moment the Badgers beat them. Then Wisconsin became the tournament story. Maybe that set the fire for Duke?
I agree that these guys should be on that plane hanging their heads and wondering what just happened last night? They should really look at themselves in the mirror and question themselves and what they really want this year as a team.
Because after all it’s about te name on the front of the jersey they are lucky enough to wear that they represent.
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Even with the #1 ranking… we shouldn’t have been “full of ourselves.”
We hadn’t accomplished anything. The only accomplishment we have this year is winning in 3OT to OU at home.
Maybe this even goes back to WUG. Maybe we took that wrong?
In 20 years, when these guys really “man up” they are going to look back on their one shining moment and realize how childish and silly they were. And how they folded on a royal flush.
Imagine 20 years from now… and these guys going back and watching this game again? I can imagine a lot of head shaking and resentment for not bearing down for the challenge. They gave up in this game. It even softened up the crowd on their court rush because it was such an easy victory.
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@drgnslayr Best advice I ever got from a coach was, “Don’t let this moment pass you by. Don’t sit around in 5 years, 10 or 20 and ask, ‘What if?’”
This was from a guy who was a highschool All American RB got a full ride to play under Bob Devaney at Nebraska. Before the first game even happened his freshman year he was kicked off the team for drinking smoking and not working hard in practice. Nebraska went on to win the National title that year and the next. He went to Wayne State college and made their Hall of Fame. But still, “What it?”
These guys need to wake up and see that teams are aiming for them not folding. TCU won’t just let KU win because they are Kansas this weekend and that’s been proved before.
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I’m not sure what happened with Frank and Wayne last night but I am personally not worried at all. Frank played his worst game of the year and maybe ever. Wayne was not himself. One of the WVU guards has his best game ever. It happens.
In addition to their guards playing better than ours I honestly assumed we would lose this game. WVU was super motivated to play the #1 team in the country. This is their biggest game of the year and they are a solid top 10 caliber team. They will certainly be a factor in the Big 12 race and probably a threat to go deep in the NCAA.
I fully expect Kansas to bounce back from this loss and to return the favor at AFH against WVU and to make a run to another Big 12 title and another #1 or #2 seed in the tournament. This was one game and it is a game that I think we lose 7 out of 10 times. It may be hard for some of us to swallow but WVU is a very good team with a very good coach and is incredibly hard to beat at home.
One last thought…I have seen a number of posts saying “what if this happens in an NCAA game?” Well, then the season will end. That is the case every single year. If you play a bad game in the NCAA and 2 of your 3 best players don’t show up you are going to lose and in the one loss format the season is over. That is just a fact and it doesn’t matter if you are a #1 seed or a #10 seed. Look at UK last year. They played one of their worst games of the year in the Final 4 and that was it. No second chances. Dream season over. Just like every year KU will have to try and avoid a game in March where we play poorly against another high quality team.
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@joeloveshawks I just didn’t think we could have so many players have bad games at one time! I think you are right and move forward.
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Old players always look back on their careers. Their personality usually dictates if they focus on the bad stuff or the good stuff.
I didn’t have the illustrious D1 history in my past. But I had lots of huge games (huge in my world). I think back on good and bad. It is hard to keep out the bad.
I was just talking about a bad moment two days ago with my wife. My parents were at a big game for me and I had a steal and break away. I had all the energy in the world running through my body and I was going in for a monster slam! I was going to bring the house down with that slam! On my last step, I hit a slight wet spot on the court. It wasn’t enough to make me spill, but it was enough for me to not get off my foot well enough to elevate. Needless to say… I ended up a couple inches short and rimmed out the dunk. Very embarrassing. I will always feel that. It was rare to get my parents to a game because my dad had to work all the time and most of our games required travel.
I am curious how this team bounces back. I have to admit… I have a lot of skepticism with the way this gets handled. When we have a game like this we tend to continue to have this same vulnerability.
Even though we won’t be #1 next week (thank God) we will still have a circle on all our opponent’s calendars.
Where will the chip come from?
I’m sick of hearing these guys talk about it like they actually figured it out and addressed it. This is always just an excuse until the next time they don’t show up for a game.
I’m one of those guys with only an on/off button. I’m not the right guy to float a bunch of bull shnit at just to move along off the topic. (I’m not talking about our talk in here… I’m talking about our players talking about it. I don’t want to hear a word of excuse from these guys. Time to walk the walk, f*ck the talk!)
I want to know how these guys are going to guarantee that they show up every game for the rest of the season.
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@drgnslayr said I’m talking about our players talking about it. I don’t want to hear a word of excuse from these guys. Time to walk the walk, f*ck the talk!)
Yes I’d like to hear or read Frank or Wayne step up and shoulder the loss. No excuses, no coddling. Just the cold hard truth. “Hey I didn’t play well and that cost my team the game. I need to watch film and see what I can do better and make sure from here on out in focused on the game at hand.”
Would it be that hard to do? But coaches don’t let them, there are never any Tim Tebow sound bites declaring they won’t let this team lose again this season.
Who wants to be the leader? Step up and take control and be vocal this week at practice let your teammates that they aren’t doing it right B they aren’t working hard enough and then lead by example.
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A letdown was bound to happen. Kansas will be fine. Let’s see how WVU does on the road. Question: Would KU Players jump up and down and celebrate after a Conference home win? Hell no. Simple as that.
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@drgnslayr If you missed the first half you might have missed Fran talking about Frank having a chip about not being 1st team all big 12. Frank has said that bothers him and he plays every game trying to prove everyone wrong. Even with that chip, players can still have bad games. The teams that have been undefeated recently (WSU, UK) had weak schedules and their bad games came against worse teams. Honestly, I’m not too upset about this game. We played the worst we have all year, were totally out hustled and out played, it was on the road, but we were still able to keep contact with them, meaning the point spread never ballooned. This should have been a blow out but we even had a small chance with under 3 minutes left. Perry showed some grit, I felt like I even saw some toughness out of Bragg a few times. This is just one of those games where you have to think NEXT. We have to make sure this was our worst game of the season. I think they will.
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Pretty funny – @Crimsonorblue22 definitely knows. And definitely knows that the coach couldn’t have done anything that negatively effected his team. Sure, he can do things that positively effect his team. But negatively? No way. Too brilliant. Comical.
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@drgnslayr Oh, you mean like when we got blown out by WSU when Self did the same thing when we had the lead?
But yes, I am also very worried that we may be reverting to bad ball and this is last year all over again. Similar post problem too. We had a better alternative than Jamari Traylor in Cliff Alexander who just didn’t play. Yet, there we were. In Stillwater. With a chance to win the game and Jamari Traylor turns it over because he is just not very good and made a lazy handoff to sink the game. I remember it vividly. Lucas and Traylor can only set screens. That’s their entire purpose. That’s sad. And they do it poorly a lot of times. It’s getting hard to watch. I don’t want to bash these kids. They’re Jayhawks just like us. And I love them for that. But it’s getting difficult to watch teams flat out ignore Landen Lucas and Jamari Traylor on the offensive end because they just don’t pose a threat. It makes us play 4 on 5 and it makes us easy to defend.
I wrote about this already, but I still think there is a divide in the fan base between fans willing to question what’s going on and those that are not. Last night was a manifestation of all the things we’ve been discussing over the past 2 years and it’s looking more and more like these questions are proving to be the rightful indicators of we have failed: The unwillingness to develop younger and more talented players that give you the best chance to win over time; and then, if what you say is true, which it most definitely is possible, the dreaded Fool’s Gold Dilemma. If we revert back to what we did last year, expect similar results.
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Why is it when KU loses it’s always the players didn’t step up or they didn’t practice hard enough?
Do we KU fans ever think maybe Coach failed us. That maybe Coach got outcoached by Huggy bear? It’s become plain as day to any average fan. Put Lucas in and the other team doesn’t even bother to guard him, then we wonder why our guards struggled?
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@JRyman Or maybe Wayne Selden has enough class to not get caught up in trash-talk.? He never has stooped to such antics his entire time at KU. Didn’t go for Marcus Smart’s crap either.
Wayne Selden is a quality Jayhawk.
The issue about Mason+Devonte+Wayne being mentally ready to defeat the press is the real issue, imho.
Guarantee we are readier for the rematch…
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I’m not upset over the loss. Losses are always a part of competitive sports.
I’m upset at how our guys quit. That was humiliating. The part of the game I saw our guys all had their heads down like their mothers’ just died.
And they were playing soft, tentative basketball.
I want to see on/off…
I don’t want to hear a single word out of their mouths… because there is no excuse. None.
Everyone has bad games. Everyone has nights when shots don’t fall. That doesn’t mean we don’t hustle. I watched the ISU/UT game after ours and ISU lost but they brought hustle. And their guys didn’t have their heads down in a state of self pity.
Maybe we weren’t properly prepared for this game. Maybe we were. Whatever the case, there is no excuse to put your head down in self pity. That is a loser’s mentality.
I always hope we win a NC. That would be great. But… if we come and compete. Keep our heads high and fight. I’m satisfied. Guys give their all. That is all I want to see. And with this team, if they do that, they probably won’t lose another game. The B12 will be ours again for sure if they do that. Anything else… and I have to listen to my wife call them all “p’s” again, and she will be right.
Players shouldn’t need a psychiatrist to dribble a friggin’ basketball. Either on/off is in your DNA, or hang it up and become a plumber!
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I don’t know why we played so terrible last night. I don’t know why it looked like our guys played in slow motion compared to WV guards. I don’t know why we shot so terribly again. I don’t know why we can’t get one of 5 other big guys to be a real force on the court. I don’t know a lot of things. BUT, I really don’t know why Bill didn’t set us up for success that game.
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We tried to push the ball on them early. We tried to speed up a team that wants you to play as fast and reckless as possible. And we did just that. Instead of playing calm, like we had been there before, and taking the crowd out of the game, we threw half court bombs, played hot potato with the ball, and committed charges like we had never been on a 3 on 2 break before. Embarrassing errors that are very correctable. But one has to wonder why they would still need correcting this far into the season… Against a team we know we have to play every year…
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We pulled anyone who made a mistake. Which was everyone. So we had a revolving door on the court. No continuity. None of those plays where players were just on the same wavelength and made a perfect pass. Nope. We couldn’t, because not only was the WV press and crowd breathing down our necks, so was our coach.
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We let WV dictate the whole game. We let them play the style that they are comfortable with. And that is soley on Bill. I heard a pregame interview from him on the radio. He said we have to limit turnovers and keep them off of the offensive glasss. We did neither. So either our players aren’t good enough (which I find hard to believe) or we didn’t prepare well enough.
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Finally, we got beat in the half court on defense. We got too far extended and caused our big men to foul drivers all night long. Why did we get extended out so far? They don’t shoot 3’s at a great clip. They don’t turn the ball over from extended pressure (they practice against far tougher defense every single day). ALL THEY CAN DO IS DRIVE THE ####### BALL!!! So, why were we playing defense 30 feet away from the basket (Where we can’t rebound from)? Why aren’t we packing it in the lane? Maybe, dare I say it, play a zone? Gasps Baylor destroyed this WV team twice last year, and I bet they do it again. Why? Because it forces a team that doesn’t run a great half court offense to shoot the long ball. And, with an emphasis on rebounding and boxing out, you don’t have to break the press either… Whatever happened to the 3-2 we used to run with Rush out top? It was a scary beast that threw opponents into a tailspin of self destruction. Or, imagine a 2-3 with Hunt or Diallo swatting anything within 8 feet of the rim. Whether we played zone or a packed in M2M, we did not take away WV’s best offensive option. And, that again wasn’t the fault our players, it was a gameplan error.
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@ralster I agree about Wayne not being that kind of guy. But he usually looks at them like “why” and moves on. Last night he didn’t even raise an eye brow.
Yes those three need to be ready to beat the press and be ready not only to do it at home vs WV but to do it in a few other games from here on out.
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@drgnslayr I love this speculation – because it is educated speculation, grounded in our experiences with Bill Self, and what we know of him. Always on the alert for the forces of evil trying to pull him back in.
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I really don’t have a problem losing a game.
But seeing our guys fold up like that… it clues me in to what to expect in March. Another early fold.
My view on life: “If a bunch of thugs jump me in an alley, they will kick my butt. While I’m down on the ground, in the sewage and muck, I will reach out and bite an ankle.”
That is who I am. I can’t stand people who quit. And people who quit continue to quit.
Why should some fancy words convince me these guys won’t fold like this in March?
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I think the “name on the jersey” is something to mention by coach at the start of a season, like after the 2 exhibition games. Then, no more.
Why? Because every kid that plays for us already knows 500 times over the richness of what “k.a.n.s.a.s.” jerseys mean, but pride alone will not win tough games. Preparation, gameplan execution, aggression, and never-say-die is how to win grinder games.
Its whats happening on the court in the current game is all that matters. You could say the “name” on the jersey works against us, and jazzes up the opponent more. (the we-get-every1’s-best-shot idea).
So, in summary, if some “lesser name” school players out-play us in any 1 game, they can beat us in that 1 game…Lesser names can include, but not limited to: Bradley, Bucknell, UNI, WSU, Stanford, VCU, WVU, TCU, KSU, etc, etc, etc. (There could be one around every corner…)
Msg to KU players: Play your/our game to the best of your ability, and quit worrying about names on jerseys. Execute what/how/when repeatedly, and even the scoreboard will take care of itself.
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@drgnslayr You know, it’s weird. That team didn’t look like the team we saw all season. We seemed overwhelmed, to be honest. Completely playing WVU’s game – @Kcmatt7 mentioned that above.
@Kcmatt7 Great breakdown above … you’ve got to do that more often. I love your statement … “But one has to wonder why they would still need correcting this far into the season… Against a team we know we have to play every year…” We were lost against the press.
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I am going into character. I am now Sergeant Slayr.
I’m off to lunch right now but when I return… all HELL is going to break loose on this site!
I am going into character of the two coaches that formed me as a person. One in 8th grade football, another who coached me in basketball from HS on for about 5 years.
It isn’t going to be pretty.
These boys need a foot shoved up their bungholes. Something to bring their egos back to earth and get their attention.
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@drgnslayr Oh YEAHHHHHH!!!
Wait that’s Macho Man Randy Savage.
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@drgnslayr I think WVU & Huggy just shoved a big fat “L”, right where you suggested…
Yes, back-to-reality motivation? Just provided…
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As a fan, this is why we tune in to our team. Now what are those Jayhawks gonna do? How will they respond in the next outing? The suspense builds…now we are in a dogfight for the conf. race…
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@drgnslayr You might look talk to Frito Lay to see if you could get a sponsorship before you go preaching chips all over the site! Can’t wait!
This team doesn’t have a narrative yet. What is the story this season will tell? I agree with most that 12 straight isn’t compelling enough to inspire the team in the big dance because that story ends too early.
Some possible titles:
Perry Senior Sensation
Wayne Selden: A Redemption Story
Bull Dogs in Basketball: How a 5’10" Point Guard Rises Above the Rest
Cheik Diallo: Just in Time
5 Men, 50 minutes
Glorious Guards Repeat Gold
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There probably is no one excuse but I keep thinking this team hasn’t gotten over the OU game mentally and physically. We labored in Texas Tech and won but OU didn’t labor against K-St regardless of if it was at home or not. So we were at this peak after Baylor and OU, then Tech was a letdown and West Virginia was rock bottom.
We had a bout a 3-4 minutes stretch where the lead went from 13 to 4 but 2 selfish possessions later that momentum was gone. The momentum in the arena was changing but this team went back to Selfish ball and we lost whatever heart we tried to muster up. I believe Hunter was in the game at that time of this comeback and then he was subbed things went downhill again. We had chances to keep the game within a few possessions but our 2 PG missed 3 1 and 1 opportunities seemingly in a row.
We had the perfect storm of bad effort and the other team playing their super bowl. We’ve seen the script many times.
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@HighEliteMajor ha thanks! High praise coming from you. I’ll try to post a little bit more often.
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@BeddieKU23 Good point. Like OU got at their game in Norman, maybe KU needs a game in good ole AFH to give them some positive energy, regain some confidence and swagger. Much of basketball is about confidence and swag. That intangible can absolutely give very tangible energy…
But I’m not going to give too much leeway to this bunch, who happened to win it all in WUG, away from home. And won it all in Maui, away from home. And also we should remind them that the 6 game run to a NC is not at home at all. Business trip. Need to bring more energy than the home team, period.
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Saturday is a great start, TCU at home. Impose all our anger from last night into that game.
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@Kcmatt7 I am not an X and O guy like a lot of posters. But even I thought at halftime…if we can’t keep them out of the lane…lay off of them a little and force them to beat us outside…they are not good 3 pt shooters…with the exception of Carter, I think.
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I’m trying to do this…
But all first draft is so rough and aggressive… so full of nastiness… I think I will get raided by the PC police. I’m trying to make it polished enough to not offend 100% of the fans in here. That is not the intent.
I’ll keep polishing, trying to save enough rough edges to keep the bite while not trying to be banned from this site!
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@drgnslayr said:
I’m trying to do this…
I’ll keep polishing, trying to save enough rough edges to keep the bite while not trying to be banned from this site!
Hey you do what you gotta do and say what you gotta say.
Those who are offended or hurt have one of two choices. 1) stop reading and move on or 2) suck it up and asses what you say and go from there.
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Okay… this is going to be in layers.
I’m ready for Chapter 1.
Here goes… I think it still has enough in it to get the ball rolling…
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@drgnslayr In the voice of Hulk Hogan. “Bring it on Brother!”
@drgnslayr see what you’ve done to me now all I can do is bust out old WWE stars. It’s all good though
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@JRyman Let’s put them in tents! Maybe put them on Naked and Afraid for a few episodes. Toughen then up enough to at least compete with the girls teams…
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@drgnslayr This is not a new phenomenon - Self’s teams always play like this when they are ranked highly. The only time they get gritty and play the way they should is when they are the underdog. Maybe we should change the field house as someone suggested a while back:
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@ralster And you mean possibly there was someone on this sight that DIDN’T think we were going to be in for a dog fight for the conf race? if you know that there is one of the posters in here that thought it wasn’t going to be a dogs fight, cat fight, alley brawl, horse fight, women fight, or any other kind of fight, WWE, UFC fight, will you send them my way please, cause if ANYONE didn’t think it was gonna be a fight- - - -well then I have this gorgeous piece of land in FLORDIA I want to sell them real cheap. no money down, only 300.00 a month all luxuries included, please step up, will be going fast. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Hawk8086 And the fact that you and I saw that, and Bill did not, speaks to why we lost last night.
What happended to Bill, and in turn, the team:
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We had a few early turnovers. And whatever it was, (Maybe the snow? Maybe he had a bad toupee day? Didn’t have his usual pregame with J Howard because of the hour delay?) he put a short leash on everyone. He was in a bad mood and had a short fuse.
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That extra pressure from Self caused two noticeable things. 1: Overaggression by some players (Wayne early). and 2: Conservatism and lack of confidence in others who were just trying to not make a mistake so they can get more minutes. (Svi)
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That extra pressure caused a stagnant offense and even more turnovers. Turnovers lead to points for WV. Points for WV allow the press to get set. Which leads to more turnovers. And the cycle begins…
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We begin to, by the direction of our coach, extend the defense so that WE can get some turnovers.
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Because our defense extends, we open up driving lanes. More points. Cycle continues.
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Because our defense extends, we ask our bigs to box out 1v1 with WV’s monster thugs down low. This allows offensive boards and second chance points. So the cycle continues.
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Instead of realizing this was the opposite strategy we wanted, probably because he was so pissed at all of the turnovers, Bill stuck with it. And, boy was it ugly to watch.
WV got OUR COACH out of sorts last night. Not our team. Our players can only do what they are capable of, while doing what our coach asks (wherein conflicting interests meet and you can only reach a certain potential with a certain strategy). Last night, Bill asked our players to do things that they were not capable of doing, so we lost. Simple as that.
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Coach has had at least one brain fart each of the last couple of seasons in a game where he does not change his way of doing things. He KNEW they were going to press. He KNEW Mason/Selden/Greene/Svi/Lucas/Traylor weren’t making it any better yet he did not at least TRY putting in Vick/Bragg/Diallo. Maybe Coach wants the players playing the worst to suffer as much as he is.
Better be ready for our “Topeka YMCA” rematch Sat. Don’t forget how badly that game was played/coached.
