The Divide Has Been Drawn
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We are now closer to the Texas Tech game than we are from the win we got on Monday night.
Reading the post out there including this one about the divide, who should play more, upside, ceilings, floors, why it went into OT or three, who played well who didn’t, the refs, the announcers, I have come to the conclusion of this.
Kansas fans are spoiled little brats.
One loss to the team that became number 1. A huge win over the #1/#2 team. Beating a team with possibly the POY of all of college basketball.
Yet there is unrest and anger about the winning. I made the resolution this year, and even posted it on this site that I was going to be more of a fan this year and less of a fanatic. Enjoy the season and the games and not get to a boiling point over ever possession that doesn’t result in a score for KU or a TO for the other team.
So I stand by my statement that KU fans are spoiled. Being ranked #1 isn’t good enough. Winning a tough fought game isn’t good enough.
Here’s a news flash, you can’t win a National Title unless you win games to get into the tournament to begin with. The more games you win in the season and against really good opponents, the better seed you get is said tournament. The better seed, the easier road to that National Title.
Lose those games early and often and then you are forced to win your conference tournament to get in. That will lower your seed in the big dance pitting you up against tougher teams earlier and more often in the tournament.
See you gotta win now, the next game. You can’t look ahead to March now, you have to look at Saturdays game right now. Then come Sunday you have to Look at Tuesday nights game, not who KU will match up in the round of 32.
OK and since someone will surely say I’m a Bill Self apologist for this post, hey I get it, he’s not perfect, nor is any player, ref, fan, announcer, game, band member or anyone or anything else. Being wrong makes us human by nature.
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Some generic comments from someone who doesn’t often post.
First, I am a huge Bragg fan. I truly believe that he could be one of our best players ever. His passing skills, court awareness, footwork, etc all make for a very special player. But putting him in for more minutes in the OU game would have cost us.
Second, Lucas is absolutely no threat to score and Kruger, knowing that, left him alone. I am not a big fan of Lucas as a player. Having said that, we do not go toa third OT without him. He scored 5 straight points, because he was left so alone, made a couple solid defensive plays and carried a major portion of the second OT.
Third, Diallo in the game is growing. He passed better and was more in the flow, than he has been in the past. Eventually he will be a stud for KU. Just not right now. But you can see it coming with both he and Bragg and oh boy, when it does!
Finally, this placing anyone who supports Self into a mythical group that must believe he can do no wrong, is a crock off semi heated poop. you can support someone and still see where they have made mistakes.
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Another one of your gem posts!
“Maybe Calipari and certainly Tom Izzo are ok with learning-curve losses, while Self, Roy, & other equally regarded coaches are NOT ok with absorbing losses. Philosophy plays a part as well.”
I watch a lot of MSU and UK ball.
Izzo likes to play a very hard preconference schedule. That is where he will gamble on games to get guys experience, plus he likes them to get punched in the face many times to toughen them for March. This year was unique for them because they did start B10 play without a loss. But once MSU starts conference play, it is all business. And Izzo will scratch your eyes out for a win. He definitely does not attempt to gamble in conference play any more than necessary, just like Self.
Calipari is different. He always starts a bunch of star freshmen so he doesn’t really have a choice. Over the past couple of seasons he seems to be learning that he can raise the bar at Kentucky if he can keep some seasoned players in his rotation.
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Another general comment about playing Bragg and Diallo more.
This gets to a concept that is lost in this one and done era. Talent is great, but experience can be better. Self runs a pretty basic offense. He has wrinkles that he adds in as the team is more experienced. I forget the number of plays/variations but it is around 100 for his full offense. It takes experienced players to run the various nuances. That is part of the reason this team has been so effective. They have the experience. This makes it tougher to defend KU.
When he inserts Bragg and Diallo, he has to shorten the playbook. and subsequently, even though they are more talented, the team is a slight bit easier to defend.
Just a thought
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@Kong Good points. I spend much too much time on this site and therefore do not attempt to read other school’s basketball blogs. :You point out that Lucas got points because Kruger left him alone. Kruger has been acclaimed here as a very good coach who wins wherever he goes. If anyone here reads OU sites, are they going on about how Lucas was left alone and how that cost them the game? Where do OU fans think their team stands now that they have lost to a team that plays the wrong players, shoots too few threes, and has failed to adapt to the current basketball landscape? There are a number of KU fans here who are upset about how we won the game. How many OU fans are happy about the way they lost the game?
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@sfbahawk To be honest, I would rather not take a critical eye to this particular game from either side. I do, because I am human. But honestly, it is one of those games that you really want to sit back and take a deep breath and just say “Wow, this is why I like college basketball.”
From both teams we saw great defensive play, fantastic effort by individuals, tremendous gut checks, critical high impact shots, wonderful team play and ball movement, etc.
It was just a joy to watch. I think both teams are looking at it like they could have done some things here or there differently, but overall that was about as good as they could play it.
Just don’t get me started on the officiating!
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@Bosthawk I appreciate that suggestion. I’ve started doing the same as well. I think it’s an extremely worthwhile practice for sure. It’s taught me much more about the game as well. It causes you to reevaluate what you see in the heat of the moment. For example, when we beat SDSU, everyone was saying that we played so well, and that it was such a convincing win. I didn’t see that when I rewatched the game. I’ll avoid going into the details of that game, but I agree with your suggestion and assure you that I have been doing the same this year. Again, it’s part of the reason that I felt compelled to write this. The Harvard game may have been one of the more difficult games to watch and then rewatch and find what Self said about Landen Lucas to be true. It simply was not. Rematching the games has likely been the biggest reason that has led me to think that we have better options on this team than how we have been playing in some of our games up to now.
@Kong To be sure, this not a mythical group. I can pretty much identify them by name. The “you weren’t interviewed for the job, so how dare you question coach Self” crowd. I assure you they’re out there. Go to KUSports.com to get a heavy dose of them. Your explanation about supporting someone despite their mistakes is the point. It’s the point I think many of us have made. I love Coach Self. Wouldn’t trade him for the world. But I don’t agree with everything he’s done. I think we’ve had some pretty horrendous losses that rest squarely on his shoulders (the loss to Michigan more than anything comes to mind). That doesn’t mean I want him fired. That doesn’t mean I want him to be replaced by anyone.
@wrwlumpy If Landen Lucas plays 25 minutes and scores 4 points while getting housed by Diamond Stone or Skal Labisierre, yes, I will say I told you so. But to be sure, you are right. Diallo did play better. It blows my mind that Diallo and Bragg think mid-range jumpers (i.e. the worst shot in the game) are ways to stay on the floor. They’re not. With Lucas and Traylor that is something that Self just doesn’t have to worry about because they don’t have that in their repertoire. But you are right, he make some nice plays and is seeming to get more comfortable. At the same time, if Coach Self values defense so much, why not give a guy that can erase plays on the defensive end? I subscribe to the notion that many other posters have pointed out that you gain experience from getting experience. You have to play to get experience though.
And finally, a very general comment on the OAD discussion. Self recruits OADs. So what’s the debate? He chooses to do it. If he doesn’t want to be forced to play them, then why recruit them? It’s not as if he can’t recruit top 50 players that will be around for a few years, who will take the time to learn the systems, learn from the bench, and learn from the veterans in front of them. So maybe instead of asking why should Self give the OADs the control the question should be why does he bother at all if they go against his core philosophy?
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@MoonwalkMafia Like most of us I don’t like the OAD circus. It is a pain as a fan as we don’t get to fall in love with the players as they go through their years at KU. We don’t get to discuss how much they developed in our system under the tutelage of Coach Self, etc. But he is going to continue doing it. He will keep recruiting the best players. Simple as that.
Some OAD players pan out and bring their teams to the promised land. Duke and UK are a pretty good example of this from last year. Some presumed OAD don’t exactly live up to the hype. Skal this year has been beyond underwhelming. He is averaging like 7 or 8 points a game and plays far more than Diallo who I think averages 5 or 6. I am certainly not saying that Diallo is living up to his hype. Far from it. I do believe that we would be seeing a more polished and D1 ready Diallo if he wasn’t forced to sit out our first 5 games.
Diallo and Bragg may not end up being OAD and that is why it is still ok in my book to keep recruiting them. As much as I hate the Cliff Alexander / Oubre class from last year as far as results are concerned I think you still have to recruit these kids. Bragg and Diallo may end up being back and our 2016-2017 team could be yet another squad who could be in a Final 4.
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@JRyman We are definitely spoiled.
I like being spoiled.
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I’m not sure I agree that when Traylor and Lucas are in the offense runs smoother. In fact I think it’s the opposite. The offense bogs down and KU plays bad ball when either Traylor or Lucas are manning the paint.
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@joeloveshawks Did you know that Self is the only active major coach besides Jim Boeheim to not take his team to back to back final fours? The list of people who have done it include Izzo, Donovan, Calipari, Pitino, Brad Stevens, Roy, Bo Ryan, and Consonants. Time to change that!
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@DoubleDD I agree that when Lucas is in it doesn’t run as smooth, but with Hunter in it does. Sometimes with Traylor it does, but certainly better, at this point, than when Diallo is in. But I didn’t say it ran smoother. I said it was a bit easier to defend as there are less options for the offense to run.
I actually like it when Bragg is in the game as his passing skills and court awareness tend to make up for many other things.
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IMHO, most every game is about “match ups.” We are fortunate to have the IB/C5 to address specific game match ups, which gives us a lot of versatility. No doubt we will see Diallo & Bragg involved in more suitable games, and LL & HM & JT will be involved in other suitable games given the match ups. CD & CB will eventually get more valuable minutes and experience when we play the lesser teams. Hopefully, they will be ready to take more minutes and adjust to tougher match ups sooner rather than later. Either way, I am elated to have IB/C5 this season!
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@hawkmoon2020 well said!
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@hawkmoon2020 Exactly. When teams have smaller posts that can’t push around our twig freshmen and HM, they will play more than LL and JT. But, the more physical, grind it out games, we need JT and LL in the game.
For those of you who don’t think LL or JT should be playing: When I was in high school, I started for my Varsity basketball team like I am sure most of you did. Except, that, I was not a good player. I was actually a bad player. I was so bad that when we went into the opposing teams locker room the day after one of our games, they had left up their game plan on the white board and it said in bold letters “DON’T GUARD #55.” I still played though. And I started every single game that season even though I had kids behind me that were more athletic, faster, and an actual offensive threat. Why? because of several reasons. Coach could trust me to rebound, play defense, and actually run the offense. I might never go for 20 pts, but coach could trust me. I understood my role, and that is the same scenario we have right now with our hawks.
JT and LL might not have as much of an upside as CB and CD, but they also have far less of a downside currently. As the season progresses, and CB and CD have a smaller downside, things will change. But as it stands, LL and JT are the safer bet because we know what they bring to the table.
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@Kcmatt7 i’d take you on my TEAM!
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@ralster Thats good stuff man!!
I have a question for everyone.
Which team other than OU could beat KU in an elite 8 or Final Four match up?
Per Kenpom, no team in the last decade has won the championship without a top 15 offense and defense…that I could find anyways.
KU, OU, 'Nova and Michigan St are the only teams right now with that sort of balance.
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That is a grand slam post!!!
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@Lulufulu Not many teams would win, even on an average KU game. My list would be Virginia, Maryland, Xavier and maybe Iowa. MSU, OU, KU and UNC are currently the probable one seeds.
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On a given day, any team can beat any other team…this is the pet peeve I have with the single elimination approach.
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@JayHawkFanToo But that’s also the beauty of the tournament…makes it so much fun, exciting, and unpredictable, because the best team doesn’t always win. Just the team that gets hot at the right moment.
Sucks for the favorite, of course (which we usually are). But the event itself is glorious.
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I believe that once it get to the Elite 8 is should be at least 2 out of 3 or 2 groups of 4 playing each other. Other than Football (pretty logistically impossible) I cannot think of another major sport where a single game decides the tittle.
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@JayHawkFanToo Me too. Which is why it frustrates me that you can have 5 great months…and 1 bad game in the tournament…and your season is a failure in many people’s eyes.
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@JayHawkFanToo A round robin for the last 4-8 teams could be interesting, and probably would be a better way to ensure the best team wins. But it would definitely be a different tournament. Those upsets sure are fun and exciting.
We probably wouldn’t have the '88 trophy in that format. Would we give up that wonderful, marvelous story? Losing 3 games in Allen that year after winning 55 in a row, and then beating those same 3 teams in the last 3 games in the season, with a decimated roster due to injury (Archie), suspension (Livingston), and academics (Branch). You couldn’t script a better story. Entertainment at its finest!
I see your point, if the goal is to determine the best team in the country, but man, the fun and excitement of the current format, and the pure joy of the underdog after upsetting a powerhouse, would be hard to beat. I think my euphoria at age 20 outweighs the disappointments I’ve experienced in my 40s. What would we do with all our spare time if the best team always won?!? What would we bitch and moan and argue about?? There’s just nothing quite like the NCAA tournament, as it is.
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@tundrahok Yes, leave the tournament as it is.
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You are right, we probably don’t have '88… but we might have 3 or 4 others we missed.
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@JayHawkFanToo Yes, as Jayhawk I would like to accumulate as many championships as we can get. As a basketball fan, I enjoy the entertainment and drama.
And isn’t it fun to laugh at Kentucky for the way their season ended last year, when they should have been the first team to go undefeated in almost 30 years? They were awesome, made us look like scared little girls early in the year, but fell to the vagaries of the single elimination tournament. Hee hee.
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@MoonwalkMafia nice take. I have re-watched a game or two this year for the first time too. It is interesting to see what various folks were doing or not doing leading to a result.
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@JayHawkFanToo Ahh, but its also a thing of beauty. The field of 68. March Madness. There’s too many good teams out there in Div 1 to have an NBA style tournament
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I respectfully disagree. half of the teams that make it to the dance by virtue of winning a no-name conference post-season tournament really have no business in the dance; they would lose every single game in the Big 12 by double digits. I would prefer a 32 team tournament without single elimination. or take the bottom 48 teams and have a pre-tournament and the the top 16 join the real top 16 for a 32 team field. Do the top 68 teams make it to the dance? We all know they don’t.
How soon before the tournament is expanded to 128 teams and half of the slots are set aside for traditionally discriminated schools or financially disadvantage schools or what have you… I say take the top 32 teams regardless of conference association and have a real tournament with the real top 32 teams.
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@JayHawkFanToo Thats a pretty darn good idea. I like it. I mean, you do have a point. If Vermont University was to join the Big 12, TCU would beat them both times by like 30 or 40.
So, in a 32 team tourney, it would have to expand the season even longer for those teams if they played each other in a best of 3 series.
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@Lulufulu that’s what everyone said when TCU joined the big 12…they’ll get creamed by everyone else. (Mostly what happened, but I remember one game…
)I think the tourney is perfect. two games each weekend, hopefully for three weeks.
