Chaundee Brown/ Andrew Jones
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@jaybate-1.0 I’m not quite sure all this shoe stuff or product, & I’m being dead serious, maybe just a little thick but can someone help break this down for me I’m old & I’m lost,& how is this persuading recruits to go to a certain school? I just don’t get it, just because a certain school has a certain brand of product that’s why? I need someone to try and get it through my head. I’ve been hearing this about Nike & Adias so what’s the scoop ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 maybe there is no room at the inn.
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@jayballer54 Bolden, like the top recruits sometimes do, is waiting to see who leaves early so .he can better gauge his competition for playing time next year. Jackson, also.
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@Hawk8086 The only problem with that is that 89 of the top 100 and 9 of the top 10 recruits HAVE committed. Apparently, the vast majority of top recruits aren’t waiting around or aren’t that concerned about who is staying and going elsewhere. The question is why no one is committing to KU.
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@DCHawker I would guess 2 reasons…Bolden…is Diallo going? Is Bragg going? Jackson…Is Selden or Svi going? The other reason…HCBSs history of bringing freshmen along slowly. They are either hesitant , or waiting to see what he does with Diallo and Bragg,… or both.
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Nike is the biggest shoe dealer in the US, and they put on most of the AUU tournaments that OAD kids play in. A lot of these kids already know where they are going long before they get to be a senior in High school. Nike makes it so.
In a way the kid really has no choice in the decision. (me talking) As they come from very poor families. An agent or runner knocks on the door with cash in hand. Kid takes the cash to help out his mother and siblings. And then they belong to Nike.
It in a nut shell it’s about the shoe deal if any of these kids hit it big. Remember when Wiggins was associated with Adidas even before going to college? How shocked was everybody when Wiggins signed with KU and Adidas school? How shocked were any of us when Wiggins signed a shoe deal with Adidas after he went pro?
Nike is king and they hedge their bets by throwing money at many kids hoping one or two make it big. If they do Nike adds to the empire, as it is mere chump change to persuade these kids into the Nike way and a Nike school.
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@Hawk8086 well I can give a pretty good guess on some BRAGG is not going, he will return. If Selden keeps playing the way he has this season, pretty good chance he will enter & Diallo will probably go whether he is ready or not sooo that answers part 1 ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@DoubleDD except for wiggs and Embiid
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Sorry I had a important phone call but went back and ended my comment. Yet you hit on a point that I’m not sure you know you hit on. Nike owns the kids state side yet for some reason Adidas owns kids coming from over seas.
I marvel at the talent KU has been getting and will continue to get from overseas.
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@DoubleDD rose and harden
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@DoubleDD Adidas is a European based company and big in soccer and I’m better most of the international’s KU gets claim soccer as the first sport they played which means they were exposed to Adidas and Puma well before Nike.
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Nothing is proven yet, as far as I have read.
One only observes appearances of strong anecdotal tendencies of Players for Top Nike summer game teams going to Nike contracted D1 schools and coaches, while those of top adidas summer game teams appear to go to adidas contracted D1 schools and coaches. There is a third ascendant brand, Under Armour I have less awareness about.
It also appears there is an agency component involved.
Thus there appear to be at least two pools of players involving Top 100 talent: a Nike leaning pool; and an adidas leaning pool. The adidas leaning pool appears much smaller.
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As far as I know and have read, Wigging was Nike all the way until he signed with Kansas.
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all I know without hiring a detective to delve in Wiggins life, is that all I heard and read was he a had a contract waiting be signed with Adidas before he came to KU. And a big one too.
Maybe he did wear some Nike gear growing up, but somewhere along the way he became an Adidas kid, and it was before he came to KU.
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Jones to Texas makes sense, Texas kid & fits the style Shaka wants to play.
Shaka’s 3 man class has fit his needs, he needs post players to replace Ridley & Co and guards to replace Felix, Holland and most likely Taylor who I see jumping to the pro’s. It doesn’t take much to win the Big-12’s top recruiting class when KU has 1 signee and the rest of the league hasn’t done much. OU has a very solid class but no superstars. Shaka can recruit and he’s in a fertile recruiting spot to get top talent year in and out.
I’ve been saying for a while now that this class is Bolden or bust. Bolden can completely change the momentum in our recruiting, his signing would entice others to join with him. Problem is we aren’t the favorite for him, we hoping that playing time will be enough to keep him from Duke.
We either get the best player left or we’re stuck scrambling in the spring for leftovers either from de-commits, transfers etc. Allen would be the next best fit and offers high upside but I think Bolden is clearly a better player now and in the future. For whatever reason we just haven’t landed some guys, we’ve beat the dead horse on why that could be. Maybe just a down year, maybe its Self and his ways of selling players and how he plays his star freshman. We’ll never know unless recruits tell us why.
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Big money rules the world. Washington DC is bought and paid for by corporate lobby interests. Politicians will vote against their constituents’ desires just to guarantee the money keeps rolling in and they can rebuild their popularity with a few distorted commercials, paid for with that money.
Anywhere you see money in big piles you will find corruption. It is the grease that moves the wheel.
None of us have complete proof of anything done illegally (or unethically) but why would this “industry” be any different than the rest of big business?
My belief is that Nike is every bit as criminal as the very worst drug cartel on planet earth. They have monstrous “slush funds” that operate to keep the shoe world well-greased, and it is with non-taxed funds held in Swiss accounts that previously were protected from IRS eyes.
Areas where I believe companies like Nike operate illegally (and/or unethically):
- hiding revenues to avoid taxes
- bribing complete levels of “amateur” basketball (AAU, HS, college)
- running production sweat shops with children
- controlling and profiting from the gray and black market distribution chains
It is really hard to see this any other way. I have traveled the world and had plenty of exposure to the black markets. Like the weekend market in Bangkok… where you can go in and buy real Adidas and Nike shoes for $3 or so. I’ve examined the shoes carefully and there is no way those aren’t the real thing. Building a good sports shoe is no easy task. These shoes are made at night in the same plants that make the white market shoes. You don’t think Nike and Adidas know about that? The black and gray markets create the slush fund money they use to keep the system well-greased.
Big money corrupts souls.
However… there have been some huge whistle blowers in recent years on Swiss banking, and I am of the belief that Nike has been caught up in some of the material released by whistle blowers.
Another thing working against them is Homeland Security. Many of the areas of law breaking they commit now falls under the responsibility of Homeland Security to police, and they have additional international powers to go after companies like Nike.
Will this mean Nike gets exposed and taken down? Probably not. I can imagine that they will just have to bribe other new areas so they can keep in operation.
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The deal wiht Bolden is he don’t care what school he goes to. He just wants to go somewhere where he gets playing time and its a blueblood ( I call this the Wiggins principle).
If he really liked a school, he would have committed by now.
Given the state we are in, we don’t really have options but if we did- i’d say skip out on these players. They only have one thing on their mind- NBA and never really get emotionally attached to the school. These type of players will help dominate the Big 12, but fizzle out in the tournament.
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Did you read the link I posted? The Adidas contract talk started after he signed with KU and the numbers mentioned were so ridiculously high, several times larger than what LeBron and Jordan made, that made the rumor laughable.
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@JayHawkFanToo Just for info. It is a bit hard to see that your link is really a link. I didn’t see that “read” was a link until I went back to read your post after reading the last one.
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When the text is blue, it is a link…I incorrectly assumed everybody knew that…I apologize for not being clear.
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@JayHawkFanToo Prior to my retirement I worked on web based applications for ~15 years so yes I do know that blue is a almost always a link. The problem is that amongst text where one is not expecting a link it is difficult to discern that there is a difference between blue and black. Most of the links here are URLs so they are obviously a link. Some people when putting a link as a normal word in a sentence explicitly call out that there is a link.
I only posted because you seemed to take umbrage at @DoubleDD for not reading the link Obviously he was not the only one. It was also to indicate to other posters that people can miss a link when there is no reason to expect one.
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No umbrage intended at anyone, I simply asked if he had read the link since it clearly outlines the relationship between Wiggins and Shoe-Cos., that’s all.
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http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/12/16/10288208/lebron-james-under-armor-never-heard-of-her
This stuff happens early! I’m not even sure what to make of this.
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I little…or a lot…tacky, IMHO.
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Sorry about the late response, and yes I did read the article that you linked. Yet I’m not sure I totally agree. As the saying goes there is more to the story.
You’re a pretty smart guy. Thank about this? Was Wiggins really on the KU radar? I know I was completely shocked when he picked KU. Also having done and been apart of some business deals myself I know a lot of work is done and things put into place before all the t’s are crossed and the I’s are dotted. Don’t you think it’s a bit strange that as soon as Wiggins signs with KU rumors start swirling that Wiggins a shoe deal from Adidas in the 100 millions on the table? I’m telling you a business like Adidas doesn’t start throwing around numbers like that unless there is more to the story. And the kicker is Nike only guarantees to match?
You maybe indeed be right not sure you’re making a point, or just trying to prove me wrong. Yet there are a lot stuff that doesn’t add up in all this.
Besides I have hard time believing that Adidas would just all of sudden want to lock in a 100 million plus shoe deal, just because some kid decided to attend KU. I’m afraid that is not how the shoe game works.
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We are kind of stacked are we not? What position do you want to have a OAD in right now? Maybe a “5”?
As it stands right now, next year we will have Mason, Devonte and Vick as guards. Svi probably should come back, and Greene we could lose to a transfer…
We have Diallo and Bragg who probably should stay another year.
Who should just sit if our team could be Mason, Devonte, Svi, Bragg, Diallo?
I think we need another big time talent Big and next year will be important to replenish…
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It is not a question proving anyone right or wrong, it is question of trying to get to the facts…that’s all. Everything I read indicates that Wiggins was a Nike all the way but chose an Adidas school. the contract rumors were just that, rumors and I did not see a single verifiable source for them. The figures bandied about alone indicate that whoever started the rumor had no clue as the numbers quoted were an order of magnitude larger than the largest contract. ever.
Had Wiggins negotiated a contract before or during his stay at KU would result in KU likely having to forfeit games…don’t you think that if there was anything…anything at all… the KU haters would have found it? It is not like KU or Coach Self have the experience on the subject like Calipari does.
Again, it is really not a big deal.
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@Second-Prize Even though it may end up that Diallo should come back it doesn’t mean he will. He clearly intends to only spend one year here. Since the NBA drafts on potential he will leave if he is guaranteed to be a high pick. Bragg…we’ll see. He at least said before arriving that he intends to stay more than one. Same deal with him though if he is projected to go high. Regardless of how much he would improve by staying another year. But if they both come back, the chances of getting either Bolden or Allen decrease.
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I don’t think it’s that simple. Ask yourself why would a top recruit go to a school like UK where you’ll be playing behind somebody else? versus playing for another school and you start and play? I get it in football as these kids have to stay for 3 years, but in basketball it’s just one year. It makes no sense.
I’m a firm believer somebody led Wiggins to KU.
How do we explain that LSU out of nowhere has a top basketball recruiting class?
Like I said there is more to the story.
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Nobody led Wiggins to KU, Andrew choose his own path.
Coach texted him routinely for months and didn’t get a response and then one day he announces for KU. Self had no clue he even had a chance until it was already over.
He was a throwback to the whole recruiting circus, he only let 1 news reporter from his High School’s town release his announcement. No grand ESPN announcement with 7 hats, nobody knew where he was going until he decided.
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I assume Bragg will be back, but Diallo is as good as gone if the teams in the lottery are still high on him.
So if that happens we need Marquees Bolden. He’s Tyler Davis 2.0, can score with his back to the basket and he’s got ability on defense
Let’s put it this way you have Lucas & Coleby here for sure and then most likely Bragg. Lightfoot coming in, just can’t see him being ready physically to play any more minutes than Legerald Vick is gettting this year.
Lucas couldn’t make a layup with a 8 foot basket, but he can rebound and brings experience.
Coleby will be coming off ACL surgery and will have missed an entire year of working on his game and learning the offense and defensive assignments. Not many people besides me are that excited about his chances of being a key rotation player. Maybe he will be able to get back to speed by summer but its clear that KU needs another starter to go with Bragg.
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Hey @BeddieKU23 and @JayHawkFanToo
If you guys want to believe that shoe companies don’t play a part in where these kids go. Then I guess there is nothing more I can say.
You’re mind is made up.
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I believe Wiggins needed a place where to hone his skill rather than just be thrown into the fray and Coach Self is a better teacher than Calipari. When Wiggins started in the NBA his offense came along but everybody was surprised how good he was defensively and how that made him a complete player. His Father knew that he needed a complete game to be a superstar and without KU likely that is not the case or at least not that early.
There was an article a couple of week ago that listed the players sent to the NBA by the different schools and KU had only one less player that UK. When you consider that most of the UK players were top 5-10 coming to UK, it is not difficult to see they would end up in the League anyway, but the majority of KU players were outside the top 10 or even top 20 and Coach Self turned them into NBA material and the reason many of them are still in the Leagues is not because their offensive prowess but mostly because they can play defense, something that is having a revival in the NBA.
Do I think the ShoeCos have an effect? Yes, some, but probably not to the extent others feel they do. I know Pitino’s quote about the Shoe Cos has been cited extensively, but it was cited out of context. I posted the entire quote before and it has a completely different connotation than just using one sentence. Just my opinion, of course, and I don’t claim infallibility in all…or any thing… related to basketball and I could well be wrong…
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I know that they control a lot of the recruiting. We are seeing it more and more today. Why do you think a lot of fans want KU to get out of the Adidas contract.
But to say that Wiggins was swayed to Adidas from Nike or that the shoe company was involved with him is in my mind an inaccurate statement.
Self has said this kid was the easiest he’s ever recruited because he literally shut everyone out until he decided to come to Lawrence. Show me evidence to the contrary if you want my mind to change…
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I guess I don’t know what you mean or what you want me to explain? Wiggins was far from a KU lock. Yet more like a surprise. There is not a KU fan on KU buckets that knew Wiggins was coming to KU. I’ll take a step further and say coach had no idea Wiggins would chose KU.
Prove me wrong.
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Ok @JayHawkFanToo and @BeddieKU23 explain World Wide Wes?
Ask yourself how does LSU all of sudden get one of the best recruiting classes?
By the way @JayHawkFanToo I wouldn’t even begin to argue that Coach is way better than Cal yet for some reason he gets more talent that any other college.
If I’m wrong please explain to me why a stud projected OAD kid would go to UK and not start and see limited minutes?
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LSU gets the #1 player because the Associate Head Coach David Patrick is his Godfather. Patrick is from Australia (like Ben) and has established a pipeline for getting Australian kids. They happened to land the biggest fish of them all. Sounds like an obvious reason why LSU was able to get him?
Now if you want to talk his teammate Antonio Blakeney 5-star SG, who became one of the most open cases of a player de-committing to a school (Louisville-Adidas) to LSU-Nike) over the shoe war. He signed with LSU to play with Simmons and (Nike). I have no doubt he was swayed by the shoe company war.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
I believe Wiggins needed a place where to hone his skill rather than just be thrown into the fray and Coach Self is a better teacher than Calipari.
Totally disagree! Take of the KU homer glasses and you can clearly see Wiggins only gave 50% effort. He had one foot out the door already when he was @ KU. Self even said Wiggins needs to be more aggressive. and even in his interview after the Stanford loss, he was emotionless and just kept on saying “we lost. it was my fault. i should have done more…etc” almost as if he was reading from a script.
Wiggins didn’t really develop any new skills at KU…he definitely has in the NBA becuase he has upped his game, but everything I saw Wiggins do was nothing short of expected when he was supposed to bring in the wow factor like Anthony Davis.
If there was no 1 yr rule, do you really think Wiggins would have come to KU? a big Hell No. He made the most logical choice- where can i go to school, which is a blue blood, where i will get playing time and won’t get into trouble and KU was the fit.
Sadly, Michael Beasly showed more school pride than Wiggins.
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@elpoyo have you watched Wiggs play? He plays effortlessly, dunks on the best and D’s up the best. He represented KU well, still does! He didn’t jump up on the scorers table and say we’d beat you anywhere, Africa too. You can have Beasley and all the problems that he’s had. I’ll take Wiggs any day. I believe he will always speak well of KU and many recruits will come here because of him and also Embiid. I guess I believe he truly was sad and hurt about losing that game, he’s not a man of many words-see Beasley!
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Glad someone else has noticed. When Self comes under fire sometimes I think of him getting guys like Darnell Jackson, Jeff Withey, Sasha Kaun, Tarik Black, and Cole Aldrich into the league.
I understand the criticism of the position we are in now, as Traylor or Lucas have not turned into stars, but that happens sometimes. At least we have some talented freshman bigs with high ceilings to pair with them.
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Players go to UK because of the hype and knowing that they will likely be going to the League regardless of where they go. At UK they get fancy digs, an adoring fan base, exposure, guaranteed playing time, get to rub elbows with celebrities and last but least, the allegations that a lot of money changes hands…remember money falling off FedEx envelopes?
When you say that Wiggins gave only 50% effort, it is extremely unfair to the kid and actually quite incorrect; Wigging playing at 50% does not start for KU. Period. Wigging came to KU as an athletic freak with a decent offensive game; the defense skills he learned at KU made him a complete and much better player. I just don’t understand why you are always trying to undersell and demean the KU program.
If there was no 1 year rule, I agree, Wigging does not come to KU…and 8 out 10 players that went to UK would not have gone there either or Duke or UNC…so what is your point, other than trying to be controversial?
If by repeated trip through the legal system and several drug rehabs stints is you idea of school pride, then you are right…Beasley wins by a country mile.
