It appears the WUG boosted our guys stock this summer!
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Ball handling is not so taxing on players that it causes them to disappear in games! Wake up people the difference in Selden is his maturity and letting the game come to him.
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“However, this may also mean that his NBA stock could fall because he would be very one dimensional offensively if he can’t take on ball handling responsibility.”
Unfortunately for Wayne, if he stays at the 2 and still can’t handle the ball, it might even make his draft stock plummet further than if he hides it at the 3. NBA scouts are already aware of his handle issues.
The best thing for Wayne to help lift his stock is to polish his ball handling, whether he plays the 2 or the 3.
"Ball handling is not so taxing on players that it causes them to disappear in games! "
Typically, I would agree with that statement. But we need to find out why Wayne was a superstar at the 3 at WUG, and a mediocre D1 2 a few months earlier. The answer will show us where Wayne needs to be. We simply have to structure it so Wayne can continue to play like he did at WUG.
Last year, Wayne was “thinking” too much at the 2. He looked slow, partially because of his weight, but also his moves were slow and over-calculated. Most of his moves and passes were telegraphed.
I believe it was a factor of 3 things why Wayne became Superman in Korea:
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He dropped 10 to 15 lbs. That alone, makes a tremendous impact on a players speed, hops and stamina.
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He moved to the 3. He now goes against guys that are typically a half step slower than the 2s. Easier to drive on, and Wayne has the strength to create his own scoring space. Self and Townsend told him to stop thinking about dribbling and start thinking how to get to the rim.
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WUG isn’t D1. I know the teams were good. But Wayne often played against lessor opponents. Many of those guys did play D1, like at Princeton. Also, even though many of our opponents played many years together here and there, they still weren’t typically as “tight” as a D1 team, that learns to play as a team.
Can Wayne make it happen this year at the 2? Yes… but I am now believing we need him at the 3. He is our only chance at having a really productive 3. We need his rebounds as much as anything. The 3 spot gives him more places to setup on the floor and attack. He can be anywhere from baseline to top of the key. We now see how offensively potent he can be, and we need to make sure and keep him going like he is now.
We still may end up having problems scoring points this year. We shouldn’t. We have so many offensive weapons, but if we fall back in to the hi/lo and we don’t produce in the paint, we will need every point we can get because we will be looking at a season of BAD BALL!
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@drgnslayr You JUST opened the door for a new topic! Was it that Selden was moved to the 3 OR was it that HCBS didn’t draw up plays and trusted his guys to make plays??? That would completely fix Selden’s THINKING too much issues! Could it be the move from the 2 to the 3 OR the fact that HCBS let his guys just play and Selden didn’t have to do a whole lot of thinking? Could be a combination of both OR we might see the same Selden again next year playing the 3? Could also be the weight loss? There are more things to factor than just moving from the 2 to the 3. There was also a lot of talk about HCBS letting the guys play through their mistakes during the WUG. HCBS wasn’t red in the face and screaming every time someone turned the ball over. That could factor into how Selden played. Maybe he was more relaxed? Look at how many shots Selden took in the final game? No one player EVER takes that many shots during the regular season especially when they are missing as much as he was.
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Ball handling is taxing. Offensively, ball handling is probably the most taxing responsibility. With the ball in your hands, you cannot take a break - ever. You don’t get to relax. You don’t get to hang out on the weak side and be a decoy. You can’t put your hands on your knees and let your mind drift. You get zero rest on the ball.
That’s why I monitor PG minutes when a guy is his team’s only real ball handler. Those minutes are a huge grind and add up. That’s why I worried about Frank wearing down as the season went on (and he did, along with getting banged up).
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I feel like I am in a argument at my in-laws where everyone jumps in my Wife’s corner. I have a lot of very valid points that could all be contributing factors in Selden’s summer transformation! Weight loss, not using a play book (thinking), HCBS not red in the face chewing on players, maturity, letting the game come to him, and last but not least changing positions. Everyone is so focused on the changing of positions that they are dismissing all other factors. HCBS will sniff it out and come November I could be right or all of you could be right? Until then I will stand firmly on my position in this matter.
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Interesting post.
Yeah… we weren’t successful with the hi/lo at WUG. There were times you could see Self trying to beat that round peg in the square hole and it just didn’t fly. Our best low post scorer was Hunter, and he often got his off the rebound or even around the FT line. We just don’t have back to the basket players. Maybe Cheick can help some… but does it make sense to base our entire offense on sets that focus on players finishing that are not good at finishing in this capacity?
Another thing… they were playing in front of small crowds, mostly foreign and zero knowledge of Jayhawk basketball (for the most part). So there wasn’t any pressure applied from the venue. Wayne was cut loose in a low pressure environment.
I’m going to start a thread on this…
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@Statmachine Yikes, that means that we’re wrong and you’re right, because your wife can’t be right!
I do respectfully disagree with you on Wayne’s positioning. Sure, I could see him slide to the 2 every so often. It could be for stretches. If Self sees that Svi is better at the 3 and Selden the 2 when they are in, sure. But Self saying Selden can play the 1-3 is much different than it being part of our game plan. Self said Releford could play the point, too. Selden can play the 1 if Self puts him there. He has to because he is placed there. It will happen every so often. But that is not really the issue. It happened in the WUG just based on some personnel. Selden will absolutely, positively not be a “1” on this team unless we have a catastrophe with injuries or suspensions.
So no doubt, Selden could play a bunch at the 2. As we sit here today, he’s the 3. Fluid.
The more important point, though, is I think the misconception on this ball handling thing. Ask yourself this, is it more stressful for you to do something over and over that you are good at? Or is it more stressful to have pressure on you to do something you are not good at?
What is a more stressful event one could imagine in sports than having the ball in your hands, coming into the front court, with some athletic freak, with quick hands, long arms, guarding you, in your face, as you then have to initiate the offense by delivering a pass to the wing, on target, with a defender in deny position? And in front of 16,000 friends or foes? Eeesh.
Wayne played the 2, and didn’t face that a lot. I do agree. It is not so significant that it would cause one to disappear as Selden did.
Also, and don’t forget, that the 2 has “back” responsibility. Meaning, either the 1 or the 2 has to get back on defense every possession. Further, the 2 likely has “reset” responsibility with the offense, where the 3 does not. The 3 has a number of set plays for him.
Wayne is not a good ball handler. It is quite easy to understand why that lack of responsibility could “free (his) mind” to play better. But a combo of factors makes sense.
You make an outstanding point about Self screaming at them, and other possible answers. It would be silly for us to point to one and only one thing at this point, and @drgnslayr makes good points too. But I do think it to be reasonable to believe that a large part of Wayne’s positive performance at the WUG was related to the position change.
Fair?
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@Statmachine said:
Ball handling is not so taxing on players that it causes them to disappear in games!
Depends on what you mean by taxing. If you’re referring to it being physically taxing, I agree. Playing in the paint is much more physically taxing than playing PG.
If you’re talking about mentally taxing, I strongly disagree. Having to read the defense, call out plays, and constantly make decisions all while trying to keep the ball from being stolen, that is mentally draining on a player and we saw that with Mason last year. It is much easier mentally to just react and follow orders.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 what about a pg vs a press, say wv?
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@Statmachine Believe me I’m on your side. Resetting the offense shouldn’t be SO taxing that Wayne becomes a no-sho. And it isn’t like we are expecting him to break the press for an entire game. Teams like WV and Shaka’s Havoc are going to make us play a lot of Devonte and Frank together for ball security purposes. That is just good sense. But, all the other teams that don’t put that kind of ball pressure shouldn’t even have him batting an eye. Hell, him resetting a play this season might just mean a 1-4 iso drive scenario that we weren’t comfortable letting him do last season.
Also, many of you bring up that Selden needs to play the 2 to increase his draft stock. I would agree with that statement. Self would too. Self also knows that he has to get players to the NBA in order to recruit these so called “stacks.” So, it is in Selden’s, Self’s and the Program’s long-term interest to have Selden playing a lot of 2. And doing it well.
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@Kcmatt7 Thanks! I am really taking a verbal beat down today!
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@Kcmatt7 Two questions for you:
First, tell me who had the more mentally challenging job and more responsibility, Chalmers or Brandon Rush? Taylor or Henry? EJ or Releford? Selden or Wiggins? Selden or Oubre?
Second, do you discount Townsend’s “free mind” comment – related to the 2 and the 3 – given his understanding of roles and responsibilities in Kansas’ scheme?
When the ball is brought up the court, every time there is even nominal pressure, the 2 guard is always involved. Always. It’s not just the press.
I have no idea why folks are so quick to discount the “free mind” thing. It is a big part of a puzzle that could have many components.
@Statmachine made a great point about Self not red-faced and screaming at them at the WUG. That’s a part of the puzzle. So are the other things mentioned by @drgnslayr and others.
I"ve spent a lot of type space trying to convince folks that shooters shoot better with a free mind, and that if you have a coach that gives you more freedom to shoot (without constant limits and conditions – which cause the athlete to wonder if he’s doing the right thing), you will be a much better shooter mentally. You won’t “think”, you’ll just “shoot” – that creates better results in an athlete.
This same concept applies when you have a position that has less responsibility (the 3 vs. the 2). It’s part of the puzzle.
And I will add that the “no show” thing is a given. We all agree, I think. That shouldn’t account for no-show.
But we don’t know Wayne, do we? We don’t know what goes on inside of his head.
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@HighEliteMajor First, You bring all of those up comparisons (because you know the answer already) but you leave out B Mac and Releford? Why? Because B Mac was able to put up 16 points and 5 boards a game? And has a very similar skill set to Selden. Much more comparable than any other single person you brought up. Also, none of those teams had a 6’8 potential lottery pick just chillin.
Second, I am not saying him playing with a “free mind” didn’t contribute to it. I COMPLETELY agree that Self allowing him to play without the worry of sitting on the bench was key. It allowed him to develop and instill some much needed confidence. I’m sure Bill noticed that too.
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@Kcmatt7 You will find it cozy in the KU buckets dog house with me. Its all good though at least we have something to talk about this summer.
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@Kcmatt7 I missed B-Mac because I forgot that … but other 2s have played well too. That wasn’t my point. The point was the responsibilities which you seem to be taking great pains to dismiss.
So why again not Svi at the 2 and Selden at the 3? Not understanding there since you brought him up. Svi’s a better dribbler, right?
See, the nuance here is you won’t acknowledge that the move from 2 to 3 had any impact at all. You acknowledge the “free mind” regarding Self’s hook, but you don’t acknowledge the “free mind” related to position and responsibilities – you know, the one coach Townsend pointed out.
That is patently unreasonable IF I am reading you correctly … maybe I’m not. Sure seems that way. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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Selden will play the 3 spot this year and frank and devonte will most likely be the starting 1 and 2. Self would be crazy to even consider moving Selden back to the 2 spot. Svi will probably sub for Devonte and Wayne, as he can play the 1-3. Just my opinion.
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@HighEliteMajor If we want to talk about Wayne “playing free”, how did him playing with the good ole USA on the front not come up?? He was playing a lot more “free” than most of the other countries players!!
But in all seriousness, I don’t think I am trying to dismiss your responsibilities as much as you are putting too much emphasis on them. We are talking 3 MAYBE 4 times a game resetting the offense or popping out to catch a pass, maybe taking 1 or 2 dribbles, and then immediately passing it back to the PG. Could Svi or Devonte do that? Absolutely!
Did position move have an impact on Wayne? I would be crazy not to say yes. But, I only think a slight one. I believe all of the other reasons offered up so far would have a greater impact than the position switch. (Maturity, Self’s reigns, pecking order, patriotism, etc.)
And I think you and I both know that quotes from coaches have to be taken with a grain of salt…Especially during the offseason.
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Ok, that’s fair … it’s just a matter of degree. Really, we won’t know the answer until the season. If Selden reverts to last year’s ways, we’ll know the position discussion was not an issue.
On coach’s quotes, there are ones that mean something. I know what you’re saying, lots of b.s. sometimes. This one, I think, gives a little insight into the though process – meaning the playing of Graham and Mason together (insight into starters) and the “free mind” thing (insight into responsibilities).
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@Statmachine Nice!! If Selden stays on the wing this season, there should be no reason he can’t continue his WUG production.
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Don’t remember if anyone mentioned it, but Selden got an entry in this week’s Sports Illustrated’s “Faces in the Crowd” for his performance in the WUG.
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I think we all need to take a deep breath and step back from the Wayne situation.
He had a monster set of games in Korea. We should leave it at that.
It might have simply been two things:
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Self telling him to be more aggressive and an alpha.
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He hit a few of his early shots and it gave him confidence that he was able to carry with him throughout the tournament.
I’m good like that.
The mistake we all are going to make is now EXPECT Wayne to do that every game this season. We will put up a wall of pressure on Wayne and it will not help him with his game.
So I"m going to keep my mind right on Wayne, and NOT EXPECT a year ahead to match his WUG performance. I will just remain HOPEFUL!
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@sfbahawk cool! Didn’t know that.
