Paschal Chukwu to Syracuse
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@BeddieKU23 You can try and convince everyone Diallo isn’t OAD, but when was the last time a recruit ranked as high as him wasn’t OAD? You also don’t seem to comprehend why KU was late to the party on Williams. When Williams asked to be released, Missouri had a list of a about 40 schools that Diallo was restricted from (mostly Big 10, Big 12, and SEC schools) because they didn’t want him going to a potential future opponent. When Missouri got left out of the SEC-Big 12 challenge, they dropped the Big 12 schools from his restricted list and Williams and Self got in contact that day. Fan reaction had nothing to do with Williams not picking KU. Williams also chose Gonzaga right around the time Coleby committed, so Williams did not drag his feet, Self for whatever reason didn’t feel Williams was the best fit for KU.
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Plenty of top 10 kids have come back, 2012 & 2013 guys came back from that class. This past class we saw almost all of them go pro (only 2 of top 10 stayed). The only reason I think Diallo has the chance to stay is because of his offensive game that needs refinement. Usually if your going to go high in the draft as a Big you better be able to score the basket which could be viewed as his biggest weakness right now. The 2016 draft could have a lot of freshman bigs which could give Diallo incentive to stay. At least we should see what Diallo does in the system before running him out the door.
I understood Williams wasn’t able to talk to Self until Mizz received all the backlash for limiting who he could transfer to. Looks like Coleby really took everyone by surprise when he jumped over Chukwu & Williams for that spot. Coleby will be solid though and we should be expect that Self knows what he was doing with him
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Schools can’t stop a player from transferring to any particular school. They try… but it takes only one discussion with an attorney to realize it is not legally binding.
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Based on what he did in his one season, I am not particularly impressed with Chukwu and I believe Coleby has better potential. Chukwu would be a long term project that may or may not pay dividends in his third or fourth year. Not every tall African player ends up being an Olajuwon or even an Embiid and many if not most end up riding the pine. Here is a list of African player in the NCAA, the great majority being 6’9’ or taller and see how many do you recognize…
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Not sure how you found it… but thanks for the link on African D1 players. Yeah… most of those players I wouldn’t know from a hole in the wall.
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@JayHawkFanToo That post you linked to is from 2011 so the players on the list are not playing college basketball anymore. One other thing I noticed was that the majority of those players were at low major programs so of course they don’t get any publicity. I actually was familiar with most of those names from the major conference programs.
I will also strongly disagree with Coleby having more upside than Chukwu. Chukwu was a top 75, mid 4 star recruit and Coleby was an unranked 3 star recruit. A lot of scouts also believe Chukwu is a potential future lottery pick if he continues to progress. There is no such talk with Dwight Coleby. Paschal Chukwu is the better long term prospect and there’s no argument you can make to change my opinion on the matter.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 You are right that Chukwu is the better long-term option. But, perhaps Bill thought we didn’t need a long-term big. Next year Lando was going to be our only guaranteed big to be back. Because of that, a guy that can put in productive minutes that season is more important than one that will make a bigger impact down the road. Think Justin Wesley almost. (Hopefully better than that though).
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@drgnslayr Yeah, thats what I though. Carlton is gonna be legit. If not 7 ft, then long and athletic enough to play like one.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Selden was what, like 12 or 13 or something close to that. I seem to remember most of us thinking that there was potential for him to be OAD.
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@Lulufulu Top 15 recruits are not the near OAD locks that top 5 recruits like Diallo are. I feel pretty confident you could count on one hand the number of Rivals top 5 recruits that have been multiyear players since the OAD rule went into effect
@Kcmatt7 Dwight Coleby averaged 5.4 ppg and 4.8 rpg playing 16-17 mpg as a sophomore. His per 40 minute numbers are only slightly better as a sophomore than Chukwu’s were as a freshman. Neither player would provide the immediate boost to the front line Williams would have. Also, Landen Lucas will not be the only returning front court player next season. Carlton Bragg will also be back next year. The guy is very skilled, may still be growing, but he is still pretty thin and gets pushed around way too much. He is a kid that will need 2-3 years to fill out his frame enough to be a great college player.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I wouldn’t land on Williams’ side too quickly.
Williams scored better than both – .404 per minute vs. .268 (Chukwu) and .330 (Coleby).
But Williams was equal to Chukwu rebounding (.247 vs. .242), and not as good as Coleby (.292).
Chukwu had .068 blocks per minute, Coleby .051 vs. Williams at just .025.
Coleby was 79% from the FT line, while Chukwu and Williams were 60% and 61% respectively.
Coleby was excellent 71.1% on shots at the rim, Chukwu 67.8, while Williams was a poor 57.4%
Coleby had a 66% overall shooting percentage, Chukwu 53.2%, while Williams was pretty bad at 41.8%.
I disagree with the premise that Williams would have the biggest immediate impact. That “impact” would be well over one year away. A lot of time for development. And really, Williams just wasn’t that good.
The best prospect to develop with the higher upside is Chukwu (as you mentioned). And at a solid 7’0", he would provide a much different dynamic defensively than the other two.
Personally, I’d go Chukwu, then Coleby, then Williams.
I think Self would have gone Chukwu had he been ready to commit and take the scholarship. Chukwu really only looked at east coast schools the first time around, or those in very close proximity. Self could not wait and see. Coleby was the bird in the hand. When we look at Coleby’s stats, he’s certainly a reasonable add at his current rate of return. A guy that looks better on paper than all three of our non-descript back-up bigs.
But I’m not saying Williams wouldn’t ultimately be better. Don’t really know. But given that Chukwu only had one season of college ball … at Providence no less … I would also bet on that dude having the biggest upside at Kansas, and I actually would expect him to be the better player of the three (if he was at Kansas) in 2016-17.
We will never know.
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Come on the NBA draft is all about potential. None of those kids drafted in the lotto have proved nothing. Basing your case or argument on that is just crazy talk. The amount kids drafted in the top 10 and failed far out weighs those that did. It’s not even close.
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Here is site where you can find all the African players by country, different names, same end result; most play at smaller schools and very few are good enough to compete at the higher levels. Let’s check back after Coleby and Chukwu have completed their fist year after sitting and compare how they did, fair enough?
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I’m glad Self did what he did and took Coleby.
He learned from the incident where Tarc left us empty-handed and headed to Arizona. If Self hadn’t taken Coleby, good chance we had neither. This is Kansas… and we don’t hold spots for anyone. We are looking for players that are excited to come play basketball at Kansas. Any other situation puts us at risk of signing a bad apple who spoils the entire team… or holding spots that don’t end up getting filled. Coleby is really a no-lose deal. He’ll have a year to focus on his game and Self ball before stepping onto a court.
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Well put, I think given time to actually see Coleby play that he might open up to some of the people that were upset/surprised that he signed with KU. I get it, he played for Ole Miss, was an unranked big & came off the bench. @HighEliteMajor has pointed out that his stats really weren’t that bad, his rebounding actually looks to be something we could really use. He has soft touch at the FT line so a 15ft jumper is definitely not out of the question. The games that I saw of Ole Miss last year, I was impressed with Coleby when he was in the game and he was on a team that was all perimeter based. Given the chance to work with KU this year I’m optimistic he can be a rotation player that we can count on. And if we have the mass exodus of players in the post, all the Sr’s plus Diallo then we will definitely need him regardless of the 5star bigs we are after…
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Plus, Coleby won’t run off 5-star recruits that are afraid they might not beat him out for minutes. I have a hard time seeing us recruit a premiere big as long as we have Chukwu on the roster. He wouldn’t be easy to beat out for minutes… but he may never be good enough to be the “difference maker” we need in the post.
I think a year of red shirt basketball will help Coleby adjust to Kansas basketball and he will have some offensive skills that we can count on.
In the very least we get a guy who we shouldn’t have to worry about Hudy building his strength… Even though she is great, we still have weak post players in Lucas and Mickelson. There just are no guarantees in a few years a guy can turn his strength around enough to dominate in the post. I think Coleby just needs some coaching up and to be in the right offense that will accentuate his gifts.
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Agreed, he’s already physically strong and he’s athletic for his size as well. It will be interesting to see what kind of player he is after his year in the program. Obviously Self was high enough on him to let him snatch that remaining spot left. His #'s around the rim were solid compared to what we had to deal with last year.
You hit the nail on the coffin with regards to recruiting for 2016, he’s not going to scare any of our targets away. We get a guy with 2 years left with some sneaky potential left. Who knows maybe he’s under the radar for a reason but something says it will pay to be optimistic about his chances.
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We don’t need to be the next Kentucky with a platoon system… players need to fill roles on our team. Coleby will perform and he will fill his role, whatever that turns out to be.
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@HighEliteMajor There’s one big thing you’re missing on Williams when only using his sophomore stats. He played all of last season on a torn meniscus in his knee. http://www.theonlycolors.com/2015/4/8/8372081/hold-that-roster-johnathan-williams-iii-looking-at-msu
His rebounding numbers improved even with a bad knee so it’s not an unreasonable guess to believe that his rebounding numbers would make a jump when he’s healthy. Also, go back an look at his block rate as a freshman when he was healthy. It was much higher than his sophomore year. One other stat that you did not bring up which is huge for earning PT under Self is defensive ability. Williams had by far the lowest foul rate of the 3 players (3.5 for Williams, 5.5 for Coleby and over 7 fouls per 40 minutes for Chukwu) which means he’s the guy that stay on the court for more than a couple of minutes at a time and not pick up 2 quick fouls. One other reason that I’ve always preferred Williams is that he can play BOTH post positions. Coleby and Chukwu cannot. Williams is a respectable 35% shooter from deep so Self could have used Williams in either post position in the high-low and because a defender would have had to respect Williams ability to knock down a 3 pointer. Coleby and Chukwu are both exclusively low post players. The versatility of Williams in the high-low offense is the wildcard with him that Coleby and Chukwu do not bring to the table. That torn meniscus kept his numbers down quite a bit and I think when 2016-17 rolls around, Williams is going to have the best season of the 3 players Self targeted.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 It’s this type of wild speculation that I can’t bite on … you said “That torn meniscus kept his numbers down quite a bit …” The linkage is just not credible.
You have no idea. He was in Missouri’s starting lineup for their first regular season game (a loss to UMKC – see how I worked that in).
Further, you have made another significantly speculative statement that because Williams fouls less, he’s a better defender. There is also the possibility that he is very timid and cautious on defense. Your statement is just silly speculation. Good, aggressive defenders can certainly have higher foul rates.
Your final point is a reasonable one regarding versatility - that he supposedly can play both the four and five. I’m not so sure Coleby couldn’t. Chukwu is clearly a five.
I take it you do acknowledge the unavoidable stats that I cited but simply choose to discount them?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I just don’t think you can say Bragg will be back next year with certainty. The kid is uber-athletic for his size and can consistently knock down a mid-range jumper. Sounds like and NBA big man to me… Especially at 6’10-6’11.
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If Bragg is still adding inches it will be interesting to see how his game changes and if he moves more to a 5. I’m thinking he will stay a 4 and end up being a tall 4 (beyond college).
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@drgnslayr Totally agree with you. Similar to a LaMarcus Aldridge.
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There is practically no difference in the NBA anymore between 4s and 5s. Most of the players that we think of as Centers are really PFs. The is maybe a half a dozen true Centers left in the NBA. Some teams like GS proved that you can actually play for stretches of time without either, although there is really no other team that I can think that could pull it off like GS did.
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All true! One thing… it certainly isn’t hurting his stock to have a late growing spurt of several inches! Maybe he should spend an hour a day stretching on those arms hanging from a chin up bar…
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@Kcmatt7 Carlton Bragg has skills, but he doesn’t have a body that allows him to show off those skills yet. He’s been physically dominated by players (Perry) who aren’t known as physically dominating players in practice. He was also reportedly dominated physically by Canada. You also have have to consider that he’s playing behind Perry Ellis who will play 30+ minutes per game this year. Something else that also supports that Bragg won’t be OAD is that KU has had plenty of PF’s come through under Self that have been ranked about where Bragg has been ranked (Morris twins, T-Rob, Ellis) and all of them have been at least 3 year players.
So, I say with greater than 98% certainty that Carlton Bragg will have a sophomore season for the Kansas Jayhawks.
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Syrexcuse?
On probation?
In disgrace?
Sleepy coach?
Oh, this makes a lot of sense!
Pascal just wants to be close to home.
Howling!
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And if they can dominate Slender Bragg, what will happen on drives and defense to Skinny Vick?
Talk about guys that need to play in zero G!
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Just look at our recent Tarik Black experience, and you will see just what Self is up to: Nothing new except his usual old tricks of playing thru the post. He might be fed up with 220lb soft post players, so he goes out and gets a 6’9, 260+ lb kid who managed a 71-percent FG%, and improved his FT% to over 70% in just 1 season (from 50’s%).
A 6’9, 260lb “body” that also scores at 71% FG will be simply devastating in Self’s system. And all that focus on the paint-game, frees up the guards to be more deadly in all the things he expects them to do…
I agree with HEM that Chukwu may have had a higher ceiling, but Coleby is no slouch. While he may not have been a top50 recruit like Tarik was, he may very well end up playing like Black ultimately. And the point about the tall-African list is precisely to show how truly rare a guy like Embiid was. Moulaye Niang has been more the norm, would love for a kid to come along and out-do the norm.
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All this talk about Coleby, Chukwu, Bragg, Diallo, etc…is a perfect opportunity to highlight that Self is building/rebuilding what he’s always tried to do regarding his bigs, and what type of play from them he demands. *D.Manning or not, Self is doing what he’s always done…before/during/after Danny Manning. This is Self’s same old philosophy, consistently appearing–yet again…*Tough, inside-based, high-percentage play. After all, it’s exactly what was missing vs Stanford (once Tarik fouled out), and also what was missing vs. OuchitaState…
