What if KU doesn't get any OAD's?
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I think the question is: “Did Wayne improve this year?” I don’t think he did. Are we going to get another year out of him where he doesn’t show up for 80% of the games? We have a logjam at the 2. Lots of talented guys that need a chance but Self has a promise to Wayne and he’ll keep it.
Wayne COULD improve this next season. But will he? We’ve thrown those dice before with EJ. The guys that get psyched out would seem to do better if they changed their environment with a fresh start. I wish EJ had transferred out after his sophomore year. Not thinking just for us… but for him.
I really like Wayne, this is about Wayne. What would be best for him? Maybe even a college transfer might help him.
I think he needs to go somewhere like WVU. Huggy won’t cut him any slack like Self does. I think it would be great for Wayne. Get him over the plateau he is stuck on. He needs to be pushed and for some reason, he has a complete pass by Self to perform or not perform. It isn’t right. This year… he was given far too much rope to not only hang himself, but also his teammates.
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@drgnslayr I am not sure that we go to the Title game in 2012 if EJ transferred.
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@drgnslayr I’m not giving up on him. Svi has a chance to catch up, if he passes Wayne, he’ll get more time. If we get another perimeter player that’s better, competition is good.
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We would or we wouldn’t… but I’m talking about the good of EJ. He didn’t end his career well and what is he doing now?
Anyone know? Playing in Bulgaria?
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@drgnslayr Ok. I am 100% sure we would not go to the National Title game without EJ in 2012. He had a huge tournament and was a big part of the 6-7 man rotation that somehow won 5 games in March.
The 2013 season / Michigan game will always hurt our opinion of EJ. But EJ and TT will always be thought of fondly for me based on what they did in 2012 even if they both had pretty lack luster careers the other 3 years they were at KU.
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I’m not arguing with you… just saying it is less about us and more about the player (in this instance).
EJ is probably washing dishes right now. That guy could flat out ball. He is on my all-time favorite list because he sacrificed his future trying to be the PG he never was just for the good of the team.
Right now… in some restaurant kitchen out there… there is a towel just waiting for Wayne to come use it.
Wayne can flat out ball, too. But for some reason it ain’t happening here for him.
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@drgnslayr How many college educated dish washers do you know? lol
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I’m not really hanging out in restaurant kitchens… but I bet there are plenty. Maybe these guys aren’t washing dishes. But unless they are starting their own businesses and finding success through that, they probably aren’t matching the financial success they could have had in basketball. Pretty sad to reach NEAR the mountain top, and then fall down the mountain.
Right now… Wayne is tumbling down the same mountain EJ did.
No one else sees that?
These guys get one shot at college ball… and college ball is where the door opens for pro ball (of various sources).
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@drgnslayr I don’t hang out in restaurant kitchens either, but I do watch a lot of Guy’s Grocery Games.
Sorry - slow day at work.
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I noticed how well Wayne played when his dad sat in the second row. He was a completely different player.
How do we get him to play like that for 30+ games a year?
Everybody in here likes our guys. I know I do.
But if we realistically think we can advance in March… we have to put expectations on players to perform. We needed more out of Wayne this past year. And Wayne needed more out of Wayne if he really wants that NBA shot.
Unless we can figure out a way to get Wayne to perform like he can when his dad is in row 2… we need to change something and Wayne needs to change something.
I carry “hope” with me… it usually ends up being my crutch to the reality I wasn’t willing to face.
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@drgnslayr said:
How do we get him to play like that for 30+ games a year?
I guess we bring Pops to all the games.
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@nuleafjhawk and haircuts
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I’m pretty sure the NCAA keeps watch over that.
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@drgnslayr uhhhhh… I meant his Dad VOLUNTARILY shows up at every game. Yeah - that’s what I meant.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I know you’re all gushy over the Uber-dude, but that haircut…
When you were a kid did you ever have one of those stick ponies? I can’t look at him without thinking about that.
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@drgnslayr Lol - thanks ?
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@truehawk93 Wow “true” I get Cali is a questionable coach in ethics, but Catholic schools are haven for underprivileged kids, and that coach Hurley has done miracles for kids who may be in prison without him. Also, if you look at the stats on cost per student spent by the govt & the Catholic schools, the latter wins as the govt spends 2x-3x more. Yah I don’t like coach Hurley tooting for Cali either, but if that opens Cali’s deep pocket to spread his wealth with those in need, I can’t fault coach Hurley. Because he needs the money for the kids - did you see espunee’s 30/30 on that school & gym? It’s nothing like suburb’s fancy mega million schools. That school is dilapidated it’s pitiful! Hopefully Self will donate some too, if permissible by the NCAA.
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@nuleafjhawk but, you are an old dude(not really old in years-just really old school)
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@drgnslayr Thank you!! I was going to look for an image, but I don’t know how to import it anyway. I was hoping a good samaritan would do that!!
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@Crimsonorblue22 yeah - old in years too! But I try to be immature enough to offset some of that.
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@nuleafjhawk no you’re not!
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@Crimsonorblue22 57 in July…
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@nuleafjhawk that’s not old! You drive a red car, not beige right?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Used to - 1970 Mustang. Or as I refer to her " My First True Love ".
Now it’s a dark grey Toyota Camry. I know - but great mileage!! Wait - my wife has a burgundy Jeep - i drive it sometimes…
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@nuleafjhawk I just remember you saying you were not a beige person.
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@Crimsonorblue22 My skin’s kinda beige. Other than that …
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@drgnslayr I would not trade EJ’s 39 point game against Iowa State for anything. What an incredible performance by a player that showed what he was capable of. His clutch shooting carried us to the Title Game in 2012. It was legendary!!!
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I enjoyed that game immensely. Made me wonder if some of those Iowa rednecks second-guessed their decision to call EJ the “N” word.
I’m just not satisfied with how EJ’s career ended… and I’m not talking about the Michigan game. I’m talking about EJ not getting the right opportunities to move on. I’d like to know today that he is doing well financially and enjoying himself playing ball in a good situation.
I care about the players AFTER they leave Kansas, too. Sherron is constantly in my thoughts.
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@drgnslayr Well said. EJ got his Degree from KU. I wished he would have gotten more opportunities to play early on in his career as well. He was one of my favorites.
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This pic says so much!
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@KansasComet that is also a favorite game of mine!
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Holly knows it’s a special moment between a respected coach and his humble player! Then weathermax verbally attacks coach!
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@drgnslayr Tend to agree with you about Selden’s trajectory right now. The good news is, he has a couple years to figure out what’s wrong. The problem’s probably between his ears. Maybe it’s nothing a summer of scrappy pick-up ball can’t fix. If he chooses to try a blank slate somewhere else, I’m ok with that. And if he stays at KU to optimize his chances, I’m ok with that too…so long as Self doesn’t keep playing him when he’s obviously struggling, to the detriment of other players and ultimately the team.
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After hearing Diallo’s statement about playing time…I don’t think we will get him. Self’s history of bringing freshmen along slower along with the amount of 4/5 guys on the roster…if I felt the way that Diallo said… I think I could see more PT at both ISU and at SJU.
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@Crimsonorblue22 One of the reasons I like Holly… that pic–staying out of the way during an important moment. Plus she knows the Big 12 and what the hell she’s talking about and asks decent questions. (Unlike Mushberger, et al, and the vapid eye candy women ESPN is desperate to replace her with.)
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@HawksWin Calipari may be one of the most honest people in college bball. Maybe I’m totally wrong about him. Maybe he’s a God-given saint. Don’t bleed your heart. This has nothing to do with what the programs are doing. I think the Hurleys are doing great. In fact, I’ve often wondered why some of these “underprivileged” kids that have gone to the NBA don’t give back to the programs that made them.
Have you ever thought about that? How many of these players are giving to these schools? We have no reason for any D1 coach and some coach at an under privileged school getting too close. I don’t hear too many high school coaches gushing like Hurley. In fact, I don’t hear of any high school getting involved with any of these recruits.
Here’s an idea Hawks, let’s have the coaches create a foundation for these under privileged schools. They can donate without the individual promos and fanfare. This way coaches can anonymously give to help these kids. You’re foolish if you think Calipari is doing it for the kids.
Also, get some of these millionaire NBA players to open their deep pockets too. The NBA owners could open their pockets too. Does this sound familiar, “NBA Cares”? Don’t preach to me about charity and generosity to justify Calipari’s motives.
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I love winning just as much as the next KU fan. However if a player wants to stay at KU and forgo a potential NBA career, then count me in his camp.
The problem with the NBA riches is the same thing that’s wrong with America in my opinion. A pile of cash doesn’t solve anyone’s problems or struggles in life. At best it alleviates the pain or problem of being broke. However as all you know as I do. Money is easy come and easy go. Yet an education lasts a lifetime.
If Selden wants to stay then let him stay. Maybe he won’t be the player we always thought he would be. Maybe some will even say he failed and didn’t reach who he was supposed to be. However life is a tricky thing. Sometimes it seems all laid out before us only to realize it was all a dream. If at worst if Selden spent 4 years playing for KU got his degree and moved on with his life. Would that be a failure? I don’t think so.
Besides our success rates with OAD’s with the exception of Embiid give me a four year player like a EJ, TR, and TT any day.
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Personally, I am not a big fan of the one and done rule. However, if HCBS is going to hop on the OAD merry go round, then it would be a smart idea to take a move out of The Squid’s playbook: recruit height. Look at how formidable this year’s Kentucky team is with four footers. The ideal situation for next year is to add Throne and Diallo, which would mean that we have four guys 6’9 or taller, plus Perry and Jamari. That’s not quite equivalent to UK but it’s not too bad.
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That is my all-time favorite Jayhawk pic!
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Did you all watch the McDs AA game? LISTEN to the recruit. The biggest take away is they want to play. They want playing time and they want to be let go to play. Did you hear Briscoe? "I like Coach Calipari and Kentucky because he ‘lets you play.’ "
What does that tell you? It’s not that Briscoe won’t get pt, but Brisco can play Briscoe ball. Calipari will coach to the strength of an OAD. I’ve argued this over and over on this board. Self has a system. The players have a choice: Either play within the system as a team player or forget it. NOW, we know Calipari’s secret. Top recruits like Calipari because he ‘lets them play.’ Calipari will talk team concept, but in reality, he lets players play to their strength. Screw any system. Calipari has no system. His system is the OAD. This is why he’s so good with OAD. Again and again, he teaches them nothing. Wiggins became a defensive machine after he left KU. UK players are still UK players when they enter the NBA.
Please don’t misunderstand me. The UK players are all good and deserve to be in the NBA. But, what do they bring? What have they been taught? NOTHING. They are the same leaving UK as they were when they entered, self-centered. Did you hear Briscoe? He’s one cocky kid and he belongs at UK. I wouldn’t touch that cancer with a 10’ pole.
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what have they been taught? Best defensive in team in what 30 years.
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@truehawk93 I’m no fan of Calipari or UK, but one thing is very clear - UK players do a whole lot better in the pros than KU players do. He may not be coaching them up, but if he does recognize and let them play to their strengths, then one can argue that’s pretty effective coaching. I also give the UK players credit, because they do put effort in on the defensive end and they share the ball on the offensive end. They may be prima donnas, but they actually play as a unit pretty well…
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@DCHawker said:
then when can argue that’s pretty effective coaching
I would agree with you. My point is, these players couldn’t/wouldn’t play in Self’s system. It’s too limited and we wonder what’s wrong with these AAs. What’s wrong with Selden? Why can’t they thrive? Alex looked lost too most of the games he played. They are used to being the ‘go to,’ the ‘man’ or the player. High school coaches are not teaching some of these ‘elite’ players fundamentals. Hell, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Coaches want to win, even at the expense of ‘letting a player play.’ I’ll remind you of Kobe Bryant’s comment, although AAU, but the question is, what are these kids bringing into the NBA? Talent? Basic fundamentals that are suppose to be taught by the coaches?
So, we come full circle in our observations about coaching, Self v. Calipari in particular. We’re trying to argue about the better coach. Calipari has thrown all his teachings and trainings out the window. He has no system of pick/roll or hi/lo. It’s simply dribble drive and get it into the 7’ post, chicken wing, and shoot a jump hook. Oh and play tenacious defense and move your feet without fouling. Yes, it’s pretty sound.
Your comment about UK players being better than KU players in the NBA is debatable. I think player for player, KU’s players aren’t too bad in the NBA.
Self teaches them the tools they will need later in the NBA. They will develop and grow, but not over night. We’ll see how effective Calipari is when he has to coach players. Let’s see what he can do with a 3-4 star player. If that happens, I guarantee you he’s gone to the NBA. I’m proud of Self. I’m glad he’s a REAL players coach. They were gushing over Calipari in the McDs AA game that he was a players coach (Jaylen Rose and Jay Williams). I will bet money that Calipari can’t coach lesser talent. I’ll take Self any day of the week. Many are wanting the 3-4 star recruits at KU. They want the 2-3 year project, but we forget it will take time to coach these kids up to their potential.
Take a look at what Self has done with players. Embiid wasn’t even in the top 100. The day he committed to KU, he jumped into the top 50. Then he jumped into the top 10 after the first half of the season. He then went to #1 and #2 pick and was drafted way higher than his initial rank. I guarantee Wiggins would’ve went to UK and entered the NBA a mediocre defensive player.
We’ll see what happens to UK when Calipari leaves for the NBA. My money is on the fact that something will happen. The program will blow up IF and when he leaves.
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@BeddieKU23 Yeah, best defensive team that was almost beat 3 different times to superior offensive teams; LSU, Ol’ Miss, and ND. ND’s offensive plan had UK on their heels. They couldn’t adjust and then ND choked and gave them the game in the last few minutes. They bailed UK out. Yeah, they are the best defensive team in 30 yrs.
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Not even sure what your arguing in your favor but you have your KU blinders on.
ND played a great game and still lost and UK’s defense made plays down the stretch to win. LSU & Ole Miss made the tournament didn’t they? KU lost games to teams it shouldn’t have, when’s the last time KU went 38-0 possibly 40-0…
Ask KU & UCLA how good Kentucky’s defense is. There is no argument against that but excuses.
Dribble drive and get it into the post, is that illegal? Against ND, they exploited the matchup with nobody to guard Towns. Wouldn’t any coach take advantage of a mismatch.
KU ran the weave and it was effective for what 2 games. Yeah real awesome offense we ran as well. Bad ball had such twists and sophistication,
Comparing KU & UK NBA players isn’t even close. Wiggins is already showing he could be an All-Star in time. Embiid will actually have to play basketball first. Morris twins have become very good NBA players. Chalmers doesn’t start, Pierce,Collison, Gooden, Hinrich at the end of the NBA arc’s. McLemore still has a ton to improve on but he made strides this year. Withey & Aldrich are backups.
UK has star power in the league Anthony Davis, John Wall, Demarcus Cousins. These guys are All-Stars.
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@BeddieKU23 what if you look at it this way, how much did those KU guys improve from their first day on campus? Compare that to uk. Most of the Kentucky kids you talk of, were pretty darn good before they got there! Maybe?
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Shouldn’t it have been the same for our OAD’s. We get the #2 rated player, top PF he can’t even start half the year.
Oubre took a good month to solidify a starting spot. Shouldn’t they just have been as good as Towns, Booker, and company…???
At some point coaching or whatever Cal does to get these kids to buy in and play as a team instead of individuals is lost in our fanbase. I understand we have a hatred or whatever for them, I share that same feeling but I’m not blind to know that this could end up being the best College Basketball team in NCAA history. Call it jealous, call it admiration, we all have at least a little bit of respect for what could happen.
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@BeddieKU23 that’s why I say crap shoot, obviously one of those guys wasn’t as good as projected, oubre just took longer. Wigs picked KU, not cal, that po’d cal. Wigs and his parents were smarter than most young recruits and parents. Jmo.
